Diagnosis help - noise under load sounds like transmission but.... [Archive]

SpecialDave

24th July 2015, 07:03 PM

Hi all,

The history is my 02 GU 4.8 auto duel fuel seemed to have a slow minor leak. Turns out when I looked beneath it was a bit bigger than that. She's developed a whine and what sounds like a holed exhaust noise.mbut only under load in drive.. If I'm in neutral and rev her the noise is gone, if I'm in drive and coasting it's gone. If it's cold, the noise isn't there but as soon as it warms up above say 60-70 in the transmission it starts.

I'll attempt to post pic of where I think the leak has been from. I did check my transmission fluid levels after purchasing the Nissan dip stick (anyone out my way ever wants to borrow pm me) and aside from appearing to have green transmission fluid the levels seemed appropriate at both hot and cold checks so my leak is not transmission.this is where I think the leak is sourced...

59964

I'll try and get her up on stands and specifically identify the noise but short of that I'm keen to diagnose or at least shortlist cause.

Based on the load occurrence and temperature factors it must be driveline gear changes seem fine in both 2 and 4wd. Like I said it sounds like when one of the bolts between exhaust sections mid vehicle went missing and thee was a leak but there's no obvious hole...

Anyone had same? Amy suggestions?

Maybe a bearing that's activated In drive under load?
It's not the chain in transfer case as no grinding or clunking?
Shaft?
Diff although I don't think it is but could it be?

There seems to be some loss of power when this is occurring but not slipping type just general inability to get power to wheels?

Thanks for reviewing - frustrated but hopeful not a terminal issue!

Dave

garett

24th July 2015, 09:12 PM

checked the level in your transfer ? sounds like it might be a low oil level ... my gear box did something similar when it was low on oil. the transfer i think is separate from your transmission.

SpecialDave

24th July 2015, 10:26 PM

Thanks good sir... Will go about doing so tomorrow morning. Stay tuned for follow up question should my search for doing so proves fruitless...

SpecialDave

25th July 2015, 12:05 PM

So lots of inspecting and research, it took a suspicion and mounting my gopro under the canyonero to see something a bit sus - my front prop shaft is full time engaged!

Is this something to do with auto locks playing up?

threedogs

25th July 2015, 12:50 PM

You can manualize the hubs if you want, have a search .
Easy enough to do from what I hear

SpecialDave

26th July 2015, 12:14 AM

MudRunner I'll pm you as well I read the following and am keen to see what you did to resolve the issue as I suspect it's what I have happening but am disinclined to convert my autos to manual unless absolutely necessary...

I would remove the front drive shaft and go for a drive and see if it is still there???

I have had a similar type of thing.... I think? It turned out my Auto hubs had not disengaged and although I was in 2wd I was still locked in 4wd. Worth a shot. You would not likely feel this vibe offroad so may not notice.

It would take 5 minutes to remove the front shaft and worth a drive, you could be chasing a ghost mate.

SpecialDave

26th July 2015, 06:58 PM

Transfer case - took out just over 1lt of gear oil which was black and a very small amount of metal filings on magnet and replaced with semi synthetic Penrite atf -instant improvement - still a bit of a noise but could be diff so will do both next weekend. I've degreased and cleared the entire transmission and tfer case so I'll be able to spot where any leak is occuring. Haven't checked yet if auto hubs disengaged - stay tuned

dom14

28th July 2015, 01:38 AM

At one stage, I wanted to convert my manual hubs to auto, thinking it's a PITA to get out of the car all the time to engage them.
Then I read all the postings here(well, not all of them of course :D), and decided to stay happy with the manual hubs I have. :)
So, how did you go with disconnecting the front drive shaft and testing to see if it's the auto hub?

SpecialDave

28th July 2015, 06:14 PM

To be done with the drive shaft- ran out of time as have little one...

Any tips on the process - remove front drive shaft, go for drive? [emoji55]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

dom14

29th July 2015, 05:25 PM

To be done with the drive shaft- ran out of time as have little one...

Any tips on the process - remove front drive shaft, go for drive? [emoji55]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's probably a good idea.

SpecialDave

29th July 2015, 05:58 PM

Would rear diff make drone noise a bit like holed exhaust under load?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

dom14

30th July 2015, 12:32 AM

Would rear diff make drone noise a bit like holed exhaust under load?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is what happened to the rear diff of my GQ, last year. It was the pinion bearing gone cactus.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljzutTaygO4&feature=youtu.be

dom14

30th July 2015, 12:35 PM

And yes, I forgot to mention, the noise always sounded like it was coming from the front, but actually it was the back. The noises and vibrations travel through the drivetrain and not so easy to pinpoint locations most of the time. It was a whirring noise in my case. No damage was done to the diff internals, even though I kept driving like that for few weeks.

SpecialDave

31st July 2015, 01:46 PM

Ok - checked for play in the prop and drive shafts - none
Then after much percussive maintenance managed to open filler hole on rear diff - the fluid is prob 1cm below the filler hole. There was 1 very small metal filing on the plug. The fluid itself I'm unsure of what it should look like but here is a pic of what it looks like after a finger dip - keep in mind this is taken at 11pm, under the truck, in a servo, after 15 mins of belting a breaker bar with a weighted rubber mallet to release the plug...

60186

Whilst doing all of this I remembered that a few weeks ago (maybe 4) I was inspecting and noticed the breather tube had disconnected at the top of the diff, I plugged it back in and it has stayed put but unsure how long it was off for..

And finally - here is a video I took last night where I am hoping you can hear the noise under load, when my seat isn't squeeking that is....

http://youtu.be/EbC23jQrtQg

I'm thinking I might drain and redo the diff today or tomorrow morning - and pull the shaft off and inspect the bearings if possible at the time.

So I'm hoping these media insertions hell and that someone here may indeed know exactly what it is I should be doing or at least help me nail the source of the nose - I suspect diff somewhere but am not certain.

Cheers

Dg

SpecialDave

1st August 2015, 07:31 AM

So diff oil replaced... 90 minutes in the middle of nowhere and cold but done..,what came out was pretty black'

And whilst the diff feels tighter the bloody noise is still there.

So I've checked tranny fluid, checked transfer case which was low and gear oil and now diff which I suspect had some water and replaced all with appropriate fluids and still happening so likely to be diff internals? Anything else?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

SpecialDave

1st August 2015, 07:40 AM

Oh one more discovery - occurs only under load in all gears and only between about 1900 rpm and 3000 rpm?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

4bye4

1st August 2015, 12:16 PM

Have you checked the universal joints. I have known a faulty one to make a buzzing noise.

SpecialDave

1st August 2015, 03:04 PM

SpecialDave

1st August 2015, 05:41 PM

Robo

1st August 2015, 09:21 PM

why not try marking the position of rear prop shaft remove it and see if uni's are worn out.
could be the cause of noise as already pointed out.
maybe even stick it in 4x4 and go for a drive with rear prop removed.
you may isolate a cause

dom14

2nd August 2015, 03:17 AM

Update - front prop shaft removed and I suspect for the first time ever. Noise still there - but far out the steering is now light so I may have one or 2 locked hubs as well which I'll jack up later and check - the unis seem ok in situ but short of pulling the tail shaft off won't truly be able to tell. I'm hoisting it up later today and going to see if I can replicate with it in the air and zoom in on the source....but noise is not from forward of the tfer case....

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well, obviously you have a front end issue as well, if removing the front shaft eased up the steering.
Find out the front hubs aren't locked by jacking up the front end and turning each wheel and see if the diff pinion/front shaft turns.
Gentle turning as well as sudden jerking turning of the wheel might help diagnosing possible intermittent lockup of a bad auto hub.

Have you checked the rear uni joint for any play? Make sure a wheel is chocked up, not in gear and the hand brake is not on when you do that. Jack up the rear wheels and try to twist and push and pull the uni joint. Jacking up the rear wheels may not be important, but I reckon it can help with the feeling.
Seeing little bit of metal filing on the diff bung is not necessarily a bad thing.
Another thing came to my mind is that make sure the diff breather hose(both front and back) are not blocked. When the diff filler bung is out, blowing into the breather hose is a good way to find whether it's blocked or not. Blocked diff breathers can cause all kind of dramas, including oil seal failure and leaking diff oil and leaving it dry eventually. The blockage could be either inside the rubber hose or the diff breather hole or both.
Also make sure you use the proper LSD oil for the diff. Rear diff is definitely LSD. Front can be either LSD or open, depending on the history of the vehicle.
Considering what you've posted so far, I'm bit suspicious of the transfer and the gearbox, but you need to rule out the rear diff & uni joint first, 'cos AFAIK, they are a pretty common cause of drive train noise. Should I say rear uni joint(s)? See if the uni joints are in good overall look or whether they look like covered in crap. They need greasing as well, but that's out of question if one of them is already worn out.
BTW, uni joints are really happy when you mark them before removing and put back in exactly the same way it was before.
They can produce noises that wasnt there before when you do otherwise.
So, remove front and test drive(you've already done that)
Remove rear and test drive with front drive.

dom14

2nd August 2015, 03:22 AM

So front left auto is not disengaging and that in turn has meant constant 4wd through the transfer case which is where I'm guessing I have something with worn down teeth so it looks like I'll be leaving the front prop shaft off to avoid further damage and then investigating if I can diy repair or mechanic and then do a auto hub to manual conversion... Man that sucks!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's better to try one thing at a time, while eliminating the suspected areas as the cause of the noise.
Transfer case is isolated when you're not in 4wd or low gear mode, right?
So, that should be another logical approach to elimination.

dom14

2nd August 2015, 03:49 AM

It's pretty hard to hear/diagnose noises from videos.

Watch these videos that I've posted during my rear diff drama.
In my case, the noise was quite prominent when coasting.
There's nothing you can really clearly hear in the video, but for me inside the car, it was
like a helicopter inside the vehicle. :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mF-r1n-KZE&feature=youtu.be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FXJzfmt99s&feature=youtu.be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YxzbdrNIeI
The humming, whirring noise is apparent when I was coasting the vehicle in the video, but hard to distinguish it from a plethora of other regular noises of a car. You need special kind of microphones to video record subtle noises. In my case, it was noisy while coasting most of the time, kinda classic worn rear diff pinion bearing symptom in early stages.(In the end, It got to the point it was making the noise when accelerating as well) I reckon there can be other things that make similar symptoms, like gearbox bearing issues.
In your case, coasting doesn't produce or aggravate the noise. That's kinda good news(or bad news, depend on actual location of the actual problem).

SpecialDave

2nd August 2015, 03:09 PM

Thanks all so I had jacked up each front wheel and gave it a spin, the right front no prob but the left one spins the diff so even if I'm in 2wd it's turning the front prop shaft in the transfer case yeah?

Or is there some sort of mechanism in the transfer case that needs to be engaged? Ok just read the service manual to better understand and unless I engage the clutch and gear in then it will be spinning in neutral from the front but may have stressed the bearing...

I'll check the unis and breathers as described and hopefully isolate this. I'll also figure out if I can unlock the left hub before I make them into manuals..,,

Getting urgent now as looks like I may need to live in the girl for a while as wife just left me but I'm moving out so the kids and her will have a roof.... Fml

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

SpecialDave

2nd August 2015, 03:20 PM

Is there a way to unlock a stuck hub without doing a conversion?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

dom14

3rd August 2015, 12:25 AM

Is there a way to unlock a stuck hub without doing a conversion?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Mine is manual, mate. I haven't had to deal with auto hubs so far. Somebody who knows about it need to post some advice about that.
I would suggest downloading the Haynes and factory manual form here and read it through and start dismantling the auto hub assembly. May be it just need some lubrication, grease to engage, disengage properly.

dom14

3rd August 2015, 12:32 AM

SpecialDave

3rd August 2015, 12:40 AM

SpecialDave

3rd August 2015, 03:53 PM

***1 of the multiple issues and root cause of major issue solved***

Before work this morning I replaced the front prop shaft in exactly the same place it was - I then jacked up and put a stand under my left front and , removed the stuck autolock hub (front left) and inspected. It was caked in grease and it had grit in it - too much grease as far as i can tell. i removed grease, cleaned it up and applied new more appropriate levels of grease and tested. Still locked.

So i then went about the very simple task of removing autolocking mechanism, not kidding, it is easy as! during that process when locking the hub whilst off i noted that despite the nut being turned by my tyre iron, nothing internally seemed to move..... To verify my suspicion i remounted the hub and fastened with a couple of the hex head bolts and gave the wheel a spin, dutifully the front diff and replaced prop shaft immediately followed suit.

Remove offending hub, swear a bit, look at it in an angry tone and refer to the fa section of the service book. So i get how it works but obviously mine is stuck in lock regardless of the selection made. did some gentle poking and prodding and looking and swearing some more before i had the epiphany of last resort - last resort is when you are prepared to potentially damage the offending part and require spending money to replace.

So i put the hub on a by now very greasy rag, actually is was more of a pool of grease with a rag in it, exterior down, went to the toolbox, and pulled out the trusty weighted rubber mallet. it was time for percussive maintenance because aside from temperature all i could reasonably do to unstick a stuck sticky bit was force. And metal on metal type force through a metal hammer or prying posed to much risk of damage.

I let loose a couple (ok 3) very hefty but accurate strikes and heard the most pleasing sound, a sudden release of mechanical parts, insert fingers into centre of hub (mind you auto mechanism still off) and it spun inside the hub i was holding ie it had popped free. Remove more dirty grease and note the gritty non metal pieces. Draw conclusion that the grease had become gritty and fouled and this grittiness has caused the hub to lock on.

i then put the auto mechanism back on exactly where it came from (I mark all components i remove for the reverse rebuild) . I then put said hub on wheel again and unlocked again and spun the wheel and OMFG it worked... the hub spun freely. I then put hub on manual and it locked, I repeated many times and on each time the hub worked as it should, being now late for work was overshadowed by a small success.

SO - Was the front hub or both hubs locked? Yes one of them had jammed. As a result it had continuously rotated the prop shaft inside the transfer case however without selecting any 4x (H or L) this should not cause too much trauma but... the pre-existing oil leak from transfer case somewhere coupled with the increased friction temperature has quite possibly had an impact on the tfer internals.

So either later or early am tomorrow I will be doing the rear uni inspection and taking a good look at the unis and the bearings on rear diff front and transfer case out to shaft and also opening fill window and taking a peak.....

I'm pretty certain i've discovered the source (ie the locked hub) of the stresses that have resulted in; power loss and droning noise between 2k and 3k revs in all gears only under load. past 3k no problem with power getting down in all gears so i now suspect a bearing ether in the unis or the aforementioned shaft to diff or shaft to transmission/transfer areas.

So a leak to find and fix, a noise and low power in rev range remain the issues. But i still have working auto hubs and now the experience to be able to do that fix anywhere as long as i have tools!

I did manage a sneak peak and the rear shaft, from side on it appears to be spinning with a little eliptical wobble at the transmisson end..

stay tuned

DG

4bye4

3rd August 2015, 04:20 PM

Never had any experience with the hubs - but love this write up. I wish I had that sense of humour when I pressure washed my engine and had to replace the alternator.

Cuppa

3rd August 2015, 10:47 PM

Good work Batman!
Love the optimism of starting a job like that in the morning before work!

dom14

4th August 2015, 01:06 AM

You're a good egg dom14...

Appreciate the advice. I'm going to pull the hub off and inspect clean and re grease the locked hub. I'll also reinstall front prop shaft and then going to check rear uni I as prescribed and while I'm underneath all coved in dirt I may as well check the breathers...

I sincerely appreciate you taking the time out to give good advice mate. Owe you a few beers!

That's cool mate. Looks like you are onto it. It is fun to work on your own on your vehicle and to get things right. Especially it's fun when other things in your life going ok as well. Sounds like you have few hurdles to jump, but you'll get there. It's great you took time to describe all you've done so far, in detail. Yeah, I suspect the transfer case, but perhaps your issues are probably a combination of more than one drive train issue. If you can visually see a slight wobble on drive shaft, then that can't be good. As you may know, during off road adventures, hitting the driveshaft on rocks, etc can end up bending it, which in turn affect the uni's and diffs. There might be a way to test the driveshaft for such damage using a backyard method.
Of course, if it's bad enough, you don't need any methods, a visual inspection is enough.
So, make sure the wobble is real and not an optical illusion. It's not too hard to find whether the uni joints are bad, as the bad ones usually have a slight play that you can feel.
If the drive shaft is bad, I'm not sure they are repairable. Google to see if they are fixable, and see the repair manual.
BTW, replacing uni joints are fairly easy and they are usually dirt cheap. Only special tool is the circlip plier, which is usually a cheap tool. I usually get uni's from Bearing Wholesalers(usually cheaper than Burson). If the driveshaft is bent, you might be looking at getting a one from a wrecker.

So, give yourself lot of credit. In the midst of a lot happening, you're finding the drive and energy to get cracking and fix your car and work and etc etc. So, you are doing good.

dom14

4th August 2015, 01:12 AM

Never had any experience with the hubs - but love this write up. I wish I had that sense of humour when I pressure washed my engine and had to replace the alternator.

I've been pressure washing the engine once every few months for years now. Never had alternator issues, so far. Reconditioned the alternator few years back, but didn't think I stuffed it up by washing it, but could've been.
I usually cover the dizzy with a plastic bag before the wash, but that's about all the precautions I take, other than disconnecting the battery earth lead. Yours is more susceptible to damage, probably 'cos it's a diesel one. From now on, I'll covering up the A/C pump and the alternator, before I wash the engine.
I reckon it's a good idea.

dom14

4th August 2015, 01:29 AM

Just 'discovered' you transmission is actually auto. As you may know, autos need much more TLC than manual trannies. If you haven't serviced it for a while and there's no record of the previous owner's service history, it might be a good idea to look into it as well.
Personally, I stay away from autos 'cos i prefer less maintenance as well as less repairs when it comes to trannies. Tranny is the only thing that I haven't touched(other than oil change) in my car, and I'm hoping to stay that way for the rest of my life. :)
Having said that, clutch failure in manual trannies isn't that uncommon either. Mine's going ok so far.

dom14

4th August 2015, 04:05 AM

Another thing just came to my mind is that since you've opened up the hub, you could possibly have a good look at the wheel bearings as well. If you haven''t serviced them, it's a good idea to get proper HTB grease and grease both inner and out wheel bearings and adjust the bearing play. When I did mine couple of years ago, the wheel alignment improved a lot(there was slight edge wear on tyres), as well as general feeling on high speed.

SpecialDave

5th August 2015, 01:28 PM

Ok it's definitely either the transfer case or the uni closest to case on rear shaft.. I'm pretty certain but not certain enough to say that it's 100% confirmed.

The rubber mallet fix has held and the auto hub is working as it should. I am certain that it was the initial cause for any follow on issues.

I Sussed out the tail shaft and uni joints and whilst there was a little grime within normal ranges there was no play and unis feel nice and solid. What appeared to be elliptical spin was possibly a slight warp in what looks like a plate / outside of a spacer near the companion flange for the rear. Will do a goPro inspection and assess. The more I watch the vid referenced later in this post and think about the logic of cause and effect it can really only be either hopefully a uni or more likely damage in the case.

The fluid leak it's had for a while has reappeared so I've wiped the lot down and will go for a spin shortly and see if I can track source it's either transfer case or transmission but I'm reasonably certain the former.

The transmission seems fine and the fluid is nice and clean and at correct levels hot and cold so my hypothesis about having two shafts spinning in the case albeit not engaged with each other due to the locked hub for an unknown period of time which has overloaded one or more of the bits that does some important stuff requiring spinning and gears and notches and friction being cactus is becoming more and more likely.

Something or things in the case have undergone a career change and now sing rather than operate as per their original design.... That the Singing is akin to a 4 cylinder victor mower with 2.5 broken cylinders and a 4" straight through exhaust is neither here nor there...

The issue occurring only under load and in gear rev range between around 1900 and 3000 rpm in any gear further supports it being a rotational element that when within the range is not engaging correctly. The leaking fluid around the area of the front shaft would suggest front shaft or front shaft bearing however this occurs when front shaft not engaged so the more I think about it and the cause I've identified the more I think that because I was essentially running 2x 2wd without a gear or clutch engaged between the 2 drives to maintain synchronicity that I have essentially started butchering the clutch gear, front drive sprocket or the chain itself has been stretched.

If however there are separate issues and the following may apply...
I have a leak of transfer fluid as a seal has gone because of the auto hub issue and
I have a damaged but semi functional rear uni joint causing slack no slack on the chain at specific rev range same as in the video but due to the rear uni.

In the service manual to even drop the transfer case there is exhaust removal involved so if I estimated this as a 5 hour job it means it's a 10 hour yes? By the way I'm working solo....in a friends garage with most required tools and limited funding (hence the diy)...

I watched the YouTube vid (2003 GU Nissan Patrol Transfer Case Noise - by David Smith) and he has his case part disassembled on vehicle and looking at the vid and a noise at a specific rev range which is when the chain reaches a certain speed it begins to lift off, his was an issue of the lift altering the uni joints angle on the front shaft and then causing a slack no slack issue - he resolved by installing a double cardan joint in front shaft and resolves - I however removed the front shaft and still had my noise so not same issue although it does have a 3" lift.

So that isolates my issue to case back to rear - it's not rear diff.

I suspect I'm going to have some pretty ordinary component damage and may be better off sourcing an entirely new case. I'll need to finish diagnosing the issues and assess doability before I take that step.

So in short I've narrowed it down to between transfer case and first uni on rear shaft. There are 2 scenarios I've narrowed it down to. One is that there is internal damage to gears, teeth, bearings etc in the transfer box and Two is that I have an oil seal or similar leak as well as a uni joint issue.

Is my reasoning sound?

Results of leak inspection by driving and of confirming elliptical rear shaft spin which would indicate uni to follow shortly, I may just replace the uni anyhow and see if that resolves anything - worst case I have a new uni!

liftlid

5th August 2015, 01:46 PM

Remove rear shaft and check Uni's for tight spots, you could even get the balance checked.

dom14

5th August 2015, 02:42 PM

Yes, there are places where you can get your rear shaft tested for balance. The shaft is precision balanced like the crank shaft.
Any damage to it can cause all kind of weird outcomes in the drivetrain. Uni's are NOT too hard to diagnose from underneath.
They usually show a slack that you can feel half of the time. If you suspect rear uni's, replace them. They are pretty cheap to replace. Yeah, I would definitely get the shaft tested or do a backyard straightness test with a precision ruler, level or something.
Greasing of all the grease point with nipple is a must for the well being of the drivetrain. I use an el cheapo bulk loading grease gun, works fine.
Make sure you mark the flange orientation spots and put it back the way it was.

dom14

5th August 2015, 03:48 PM

Not sure how you noticed the slight wobble of front end of the rear driveshaft.
Assuming you haven't done it below mentioned way, I would do it.
Jack up the rear and properly choke up the front(Make sure 4WD is not engaged and the auto hubs don't engage by themselves)
Put the vehicle on drive and let the rear spin and watch the driveshaft spinning from underneath.
If you see any wobbling of the driveshaft that way, it's usually good indication it needs attention.
Such tests need serious precautions if you're doing it solo, like making sure not to go under the car while it running, and making sure there's a good strong wall in front of the car, etc etc.
Also, make sure you use enough jacks and jack stands.
Another test you can do is, while the rear is up(or not) take the rear driveshaft out, then put on drive and hit the speeds and the transmission temperatures that you mentioned originally where it starts the noise issue. This would conclusively isolate whether the real culprit is the transfer box/transmission or the driveshaft/uni's. If the noise is result of combined drivetrain slack, then it may not isolate a single issue, but would still help a lot. You can do the same test for front drive shaft as well.

SpecialDave

5th August 2015, 11:34 PM

Again your detailed support is sincerely appreciated...

Ok so I guarantee you I am thoroughly safe, my best mates nickname for me is safety Dave.

The wobble identification was when I had the whole beast up on stands (4t) stands my buddy has for his flatbed. I put it in gear and watched but this was after hours of doing other diagnostics etc. that being said I'm a modern bloke and I manufactured a goPro mount and then did a lap of the block this afternoon.

I'll post the video later but the good bit aside from at the nor net not having viewed the vid on a big screen to determine shaft balance is that the audio is awesome and I am now convinced the noise is the transfer chain.

I'll try and post later....

I'm going to drop the shaft and do a detailed inspection as well so may as well replace unis then.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

dom14

6th August 2015, 12:30 AM

Yeah, do the uni's anyway. They are too cheap and too easy for not doing.

I have access to an enough area of flat concrete as well as plenty of tree stump cut offs. So, I do take solo risks
on a running engine, while crawling under it.

I didn't understand the "GoPro mount" bit.

If you are planning to keep the fourby for long term and panning to stay as a middle class bloke, then do collect enough el cheapo tools & learn as much as you can on how to do the repair stuff yourself.
By el cheapo, I meant not necessarily spending money on Sydchrome or Snapon tools, which are usually reserved for pro's.
Instead I stick with generic ones from Supercheap(sometime called SuperDear), Bunnings, etc.
Fleabay and Bumtree are also good places to gather generic but good tools.

One bloke here(Clunk I think) said the owning a fourby is a privilege.
I reckon it's true for most of us.
In my case I quite haven't felt that way 'cos I gota 25 year old GQ and I've been doing every little and big repairs myself for past thee years or so. Either way, it's pretty clear that owning a fourby is not cheap.
It's either spending big dollars at the mechanic shop or spending plenty of our own time/labour.
It is give and take at the end of the day.

SpecialDave

6th August 2015, 01:55 AM

All good - I was a mechanic for a few years when a youngster so I have a lifetime collection of tools and can rebuild the engine if I need to. But being my first fourby diagnosing is problematic for some of the stuff. I tend to get decent tools as I've had super cheap etc snap on me before and I'd rather pay more for reliability.

If I have to skimp elsewhere I do.

Where did you get the unis from?

Cheers again mate

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

SpecialDave

6th August 2015, 08:28 AM

OK - introducing the all new GoPro video diagnostics.
This was mounted under drivers side almost directly up and under the central pillar. I need some better eyes than mine to determine if they can see inconsistencies in the drive shaft and you most certainly can hear without all the wind noise to my ears what sounds like chain rattle in the transfer case..

so here's my vid http://youtu.be/-wmgx_eJ3ng
and here is the reference vid I discovered https://youtu.be/ReqaGtW0SSE

Thanks!

DG

dom14

6th August 2015, 02:17 PM

Ok, cool mate. Didn't know you are a former mechanic. I will catch up with you when I need to rebuild the bottom end of my GQ. :)
If I'm sure the transfer case is the problem, then I would focus on it.
I've never broken any of the SuperDear or Barnings tools, except when I try to use breaker bars on small hand tools.
I don't fix cars everyday for a living, so I can't justify having pro brand tools.
I bought a complete socket & ratchet tool kit box from Total Tools 15 years ago for $130. Still going without a scratch.
I can't simply afford to fork out extra money for pro tools which I may only use occasionally.
Snap-on tools are good if you can afford them, and comes with life time warranty.
Sydchrome, Kinchrome, etc are Taiwanese made.
I get the uni's, bearings, etc from Bearing Wholesalers. They have a store in Thomastown.
Or try Burson Eltham.

SpecialDave

6th August 2015, 03:07 PM

Legend thanks mate - I semi regularly rebuild my bike engine and am the bloke responsible for getting mates with zero mechanical aptitude out of trouble on camping and fishing trips so I opt for kingchrome predominantly but like you I have some El cheapos that still work great!

Cheers for the headsup on bearings!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

SpecialDave

9th August 2015, 10:13 AM

2 x night work, 2 x filthy hands, 4 x new uni joints, 1 x broken pinkie, 4 x skinned knuckles and
1 x persistent problem isolated to transfer case
/ transmission.

So all new bits and fluids etc gave now amplified the problem and I have a vibration.....
Bugger- looks like it's time to save some pennies....

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

SpecialDave

9th August 2015, 05:23 PM

Wait..... Hold the fort.....

After my all nighter I had an eventful day of couch snooze. I decided to fill the old girl up, do Tyers, and I figured topping of the transmission fluid wouldn't hurt as I noticed last night some of my fluid lean is transmission fluid which is green and very fluid with bugger all viscosity.... Engine oils was fine, transfer case was checked two days ago and at required level and correct fluid. Brand new fully greased unis all around I thought to myself, let's take it off Tarmac use 4by on and off, splash through puddles and hit heaps of potholes reasonably fast... It was fun and aside from the God awful noise and seeming lack of power all seemed to work and pretty tight.

So as I idled out of the dirt onto the Tarmac there it was, but hang on, only for a second and only between 2000 and 2400 rpm and only at very low speeds now.

I immediately tried every scenario I had experienced the issue... Effectively gone, still evident as mentioned at very low speeds but far less pronounced and fat shorter duration.

So as I have driven and experienced the noise without each prop/drive shaft and the noise persisted,, and from my video and investigative research I am convinced the noise was the transfer chain.

Given the leakages I think the auto Trans "specialist" that had the bus before I collected it and purchased was in fact a muppet of the highest order, I think he has reassembled the entire system haphazard and I have dodgy or damaged gaskets causing leaks, j also think he has put the wrong atf fluid in the transmission and there was her oil in the transfer case so as far as being an auto transmission specialist maybe it refers to an automatic qualification if you can spell atf at TAFE when doing the how to rip off people course...

So along with my drive helping settle everything in its quite possible they wrong fluid is causing issues without correct level of resistance...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

SpecialDave

15th August 2015, 10:14 AM

Ok it's still there - I'm not 100% on the mechanics of the transfer case - I'll need to re read but anyone tell me does the chain still travel in 2wd if yes then that's what it is if not its prob a bearing somewhere in transmission

SpecialDave

18th August 2015, 12:25 PM

It's transmission Fml. I took out 2 litres to inspect and found small silver metal in the strainer on my funnel and then when I checked the fluid level was now correct so it had absolutely been overfilled given its been leaking as well that would explain why and the fluid is slightly green but not due to coolant so whatever atf it was filled to the top with is probably the wrong type as well.... This is something that may ground me for a while as with the other stuff going on in my life I am skint....

Robo

19th August 2015, 03:35 AM

you'll find there's a good chance the green fluid is the correct type of ATF for the transfer case.
check listing for your model.
I was using this in all my cars as the suggested optional upgrade fluid, being synthetic.

ATF is lighter & doesn't suck power form the drive train that's why it's used.
And using a synthetic can mean extended drain period, so it ends out cheaper.
due to the fact its not being exposed to combustion cycles like engine oil.
off rd well there's water dirt ingress I suppose.
who cares it's only 2 ltrs.

SpecialDave

19th August 2015, 10:24 AM

So robbo following that train of thought suspect transfer case fluid used in transmission?

Robo

19th August 2015, 01:18 PM

Couldn't remember name of oil in the wee hrs this morning.

castrol Transmac Z,
last bottle purchased the colour is now a brown.
but make sure that it's still listed as the optional upgrade.
it was listed for my GTR case as optional, and it was fine in that.
that never went slow in the bush, lol

It used to cover "Nissan Matic A fluid" from memory,
but up to letter D now thats why I say check the listings and cross reference etc

If it were over filled, think some one had parked it on a hill to do that.
I'm not that into off rd, but it may of been a trick trying to compensate for extreme angles and slower kph speeds etc.
normal driving would then not allow oil to behave as it should.
but thats only a guess.
or simply done thinking they were adding extra protection, or trying to hide that noise, ouch.
Just change the oil out and see what happens.
If it fixes it , ya have done alot of jobs that won't need doing again for a while.

threedogs

19th August 2015, 04:51 PM

Hi Dave just looking at your GoPro vision on my crappy screen,
Do you think there is enough slip on the yoke if it has one,
also whats to the right of the tail shaft it seems imo to move
also check at the 1.08 mark, could just be a bush on the way out.

SpecialDave

22nd August 2015, 01:10 PM

To the right is the transmission and sensor plug...
I'll look into yoke but have new news

the noise now persists in park and neutral and seems to somewhere in or above my sub tank and only at that rev range still?

Robo

22nd August 2015, 09:34 PM

There has been no difference until you drained the excess ATF from transfer case, correct?.

SpecialDave

23rd August 2015, 12:07 PM

Maybe - temperature angle of truck fuel loads driven angry or not etc....

Robo

23rd August 2015, 02:17 PM

Humm if the noise is there in park and neutral !.
case doesn't turn in anger until you either roll or move in gear.

so thinking about the oil , someone has simply overfilled case etc,
but the problem is much further forward.

SpecialDave

23rd August 2015, 09:11 PM

The thing is absolutely a noise or even the noise above sub tank?

Robo

24th August 2015, 10:29 AM

yeah listening to the noise on Y-tube
think you will find the noise is simply traveling and not where ya think it is.
nothing above sub tank but floor pan.
the transfer case can't,wont make a single sound until you either drive the car under power or roll in angle gear.

over the net it sounds like bearing chatter, a worn out bearing.
looks like ya may have to bite the bullet and get some paid for advise & or R&R something.

guessing, if your hearing it in park and neutral, tranny input shaft area.

SpecialDave

25th August 2015, 09:01 AM

Yep cheers Robo, I didn't think there'd be anything above sub so given the genesis of this issue and all the steps take to remediate I figured it had to be a bearing and now you've said it I just had a face palm moment and went duh!it has to be a moving part. If it happens when transmission disengaged and vehicle stationary the only moving parts could be from engine to transmission. It's definitely not in the engine bay. Given this all started as a suspected transmission issue and those points it must be where engine meets transmission which is where my fluid leak appears to be coming from - in short of course it's the bloody bearings at the input - if it's not I'm giving up!

SpecialDave

31st August 2015, 09:57 AM

Anyone had an input shaft job done before? Approx cost?

Robo

3rd September 2015, 02:09 PM

Firstly take it to a work shop and get a 2nd opinion.
Don't just take my word for it.
Where here to help, but there's only so much you can do at the other end of a key board.
Shafts are available for a manual box, but yours is auto isn't it!.
such a job requires great deal of knowledge.
may-be go to a reco box with nomad valve body at same time!
Rodney @ aust auto etc or what ever it is?
relies your sort a in a pickle, but can't help further.
good luck with it.

SpecialDave

3rd September 2015, 09:24 PM

Yep cheers Robo - I actually think it's probably a torque converter issue - collapsed bearing or similar. When the atf is cold it is more viscous and supports the tc. As it heats up it thins and given I suspect the wrong fluid was used and may be a petroleum based fluid or at least partially it heats up to the point of becoming a gas and massively reduces the heat dissipating and lubricating qualities a fully synthetic would give. That along with the additional strain my stuck auto lock hub was putting on the system is likely what led to a bearing or Tc clutch failure although I'm not getting any slip and I believe lock up is still occurring so more likely the tc or bearing.

I'm looking into replacement parts as well as whole trans. I know I can get it out and back for $800 cash plus parts so depending on how my end of year review goes next week and the attached incentive payment will dictate next steps. Otherwise I've learnt a shedload about the RE5R05A removal, rebuild and replace process from reading the entire service manual as well as everything available on the web, I may end up doing it myself. Regardless if the box comes out I'll be improving the valve bodies.

Appreciate the heads up mate! Cheers