EGR catch can???

[rusty00]

Hi All,

Most probably a silly question but,

Just wondering is it possible to have a catch can type set up off the EGR valve to stop the sludge build up or am I way off track?
Also do you need to block it off on the CDR 2012 motors?

[Rock Trol]

The egr system is a steel pipe and the egr gases are exhaust gases so you would need a particulate filter to do any good. In the CRD's the EGR problem isn't as bad. It's illegal to block the egr but there are also benefits for those that do....or so I am told. ;)

[Hodge]

Yes it's illegal, but block the damn thing. No matter what engine, it's like re-piping a portion of you sewer back into your fresh water system ... Same principle.
Mines is a 2009 CRD. And one thing I definitely noticed is much much cleaner oil after changes. That alone makes it worthwhile.
And yes your car might be overboosting after blocking the EGR. But this is easily overcome with a dawes and needle valve.

[rusty00]

Thanks for the clarification on the EGR.
If a filter was used would it work and I wonder how much would it work.
Would it restrict anything down the line and cause any other problems.
Would it be worth it and help?
If the CDR is better with this problem, by doing something it should prevent any problems in the long run?

I assume the filter would need to be changed regularly.

[mudski]

Thanks for the clarification on the EGR.
If a filter was used would it work and I wonder how much would it work.
Would it restrict anything down the line and cause any other problems.
Would it be worth it and help?
If the CDR is better with this problem, by doing something it should prevent any problems in the long run?

I assume the filter would need to be changed regularly.
Im assuming the filter your asking about is for the catch can? The catch can filters the crank case vapours before they re enter the air intake. Most have a filter in them which you clean out.
Basically whats ideal for a motor is cool, clean air. As it stands now, its hot, oily and soot filled air. Blocking the egr and installing a catch can, pretty much removes these totally.

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[rusty00]

I was referring to RT comment on the EGR particulate filter.
I am adding the vapour catch can next week to protect the air sensor.

[Rock Trol]

Sorry I was not clear in my comments. There is no EGR particulate filter. I was just saying that the only way you could clean the EGR gas is with a DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter) such as they use on some models of car exhausts. These are complex, expensive and big. Blocking the EGR is the only way. I was just being a bit cryptic. You also get more down low torque when you block it. If its a complete block (no small hole drilled through it - 8mm) then you will also get 0401 errors generated by the system and you check engine light will come on. A scangauge can clear these when they occur.

[mudski]

I was referring to RT comment on the EGR particulate filter.
I am adding the vapour catch can next week to protect the air sensor.
Ok in that case a filter would be as useless as tits on a bull in my opinion. Just block the egr and be done with it. CRD's still block up the intake just as much as the earlier Di motors. Its an egr system, all the same no matter what motor. I have been selling a lot of cans to a local mechanic who just does European diesels. Mostly fairly new and late model cars. He's blocking egrs and fitting catch cans on these, and removing entire intake systems off car that are not even two years old to clean out the intake of thick oily sludge thanks to the egr system and oily crank case vapours.
Egr systems are bad news for a diesel. Period.

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[rusty00]

Sweet

Thanks guys, this explains a lot and thinking it was a silly question was not in the end.

I was told by a big brand turbo repairer not to block the EGR as it caused more problems than it's worth and noticed Nissan head took his off with a similar comment.

Will look into it some more and do agree it is worth blocking.
Catch can going on next week, any suggestions to a particular type Mudski?

[threedogs]

No silly questions here
Rusty, most will say not to block because of legallities.
Ask the same question to a mechanic?

[boots]

The Provent 200 is the Ducks guts of catch cans .

[dom14]

I think EGR removal is not illegal for a straight LPG car, but I need a confirmation on that.

EGR removal wasn't a complicated thing in my RB30 carby Patrol. But, some diesel and other fuel injected, ECU driven cars,
it may worth doing some homework before removing it.
I think the EGR system, especially the valve is PITA, 'cos it can wear out, block etc, lot quicker than other vacuum diaphragms, valves. I think any non ECU controlled EGR systems are a real PITA.
With ECU controlled EGR systems, I reckon it's better to do bit of home work to find out how integrated the EGR to the engine stability, before removing/blocking it. Rather than removing it, blocking it from intake and exhaust ends and plugging the vacuum lines to the EGR valve is probably the best approach.

[rusty00]

Has anyone done this????

With ECU controlled EGR systems, I reckon it's better to do bit of home work to find out how integrated the EGR to the engine stability, before removing/blocking it. Rather than removing it, blocking it from intake and exhaust ends and plugging the vacuum lines to the EGR valve is probably the best approach.

[mudski]

On the zd and td's you just use a blanking plate. 10 minute job...

[Rumcajs]

Hi All,

Most probably a silly question but,

Just wondering is it possible to have a catch can type set up off the EGR valve to stop the sludge build up or am I way off track?
Also do you need to block it off on the CDR 2012 motors?

Sludge built up is not caused by EGR or exhaust gasses. It is the result of crankcase gases mix with engine oil being sucked in/recirculated back in to intake where it layers/cakes on.

Exhaust gases don't contain any oil vapour in them, if they did oil would burn and cause even more pollution.

So having oil mist separator from exhaust gases would be kinda pointless.

EGR/SCR/DPF/DOC technologies are "user pays or penalties" for diesel engine efficiency gone haywire. The more efficient the combustion the more pollution! So EGR acts like a brake/retarder on the combustion process by displacing the amount of available oxygen for combustion thus reducing peak combustion temperatures therefore reducing the really ugley result of the Rudolph Diesel engine invention, the formation of NOx pollutants which are even worse then CO/CO2 and PM (particulate matter). SCR/DPF/DOC are exhaust gases filtering/cleaning technologies and don't actually affect the engine itself just the exhaust part. Sadly though, EGR is here to stay.....All these techs are expensive to maintain so buying such equipped vehicle is not a smart proposition.

What the engine makers aren't telling is that the cost of dealing with the pollution has been shifted on to you the consumer! Instead of developing cleaner alternatives (which they would have to invest a lot of cash) they're saving the fortune while selling you a crap.
While the oil companies making even more obscene profits.

The sludge in the intake manifold is just a consequence of cost cutting and inadequately designed engine/crankcase breathers.

B/R

[rusty00]

Thanks B/R this type of information is awesome.
I didn't know any of this stuff and helps with understand the systems.

[dysonest]

block it off, CRD or not it will eventually clog up ur intake and fuck ur motor.
also be aware that injectors usually have a life span of around 150 thou.
being CRD as soon as the spray pattern is affected u will slowly loose power.
and incorrect spray will not completely burn and if the egr valve is open it will push it around to ur intake and get stuck on the walls.
its a vicious cycle haha

[dom14]

On the zd and td's you just use a blanking plate. 10 minute job...

I made my own blanking plate with a piece of a tin. But, I also removed EGR pipe & blocked exhaust side of the hole with a threaded bolt.($5 from Nuts & Bolts store). I didn't wanna remove it 'cos having it or not having it isn't that crucial to RB30 engine, other than the emission control. The pipe was cracked from the exhaust end and was giving me crap all the time.
And it's slack arsse design by Nissan the damn pipe was getting in the way of doing anything on the backside of the engine.
After a while, the exhaust side pipe pretty much get welded to the exhaust from the heat, and it's almost impossible to remove it. I had to use a pipe wrench and a long pipe attached to it to generate enough torque to undo it. Also, I had to pin the exhaust manifold under a wheel of the vehicle to hold it still, so I could remove it. Never again. It's a PITA design by Nissan, simply to marginally satisfy the EPA, but leave all the crap with the vehicle owner & the poor mechanic who would have to go through all the crap as well.

[dom14]

EGR/SCR/DPF/DOC technologies are "user pays or penalties" for diesel engine efficiency gone haywire. The more efficient the combustion the more pollution! So EGR acts like a brake/retarder on the combustion process by displacing the amount of available oxygen for combustion thus reducing peak combustion temperatures therefore reducing the really ugley result of the Rudolph Diesel engine invention, the formation of NOx pollutants which are even worse then CO/CO2 and PM (particulate matter). SCR/DPF/DOC are exhaust gases filtering/cleaning technologies and don't actually affect the engine itself just the exhaust part. Sadly though, EGR is here to stay.....All these techs are expensive to maintain so buying such equipped vehicle is not a smart proposition.

What the engine makers aren't telling is that the cost of dealing with the pollution has been shifted on to you the consumer! Instead of developing cleaner alternatives (which they would have to invest a lot of cash) they're saving the fortune while selling you a crap.
While the oil companies making even more obscene profits.
B/R

Non of this bullxx emission control technologies are necessary if we've switched to more environmentally friendly fuels. The petrol engine is good 150 years or so old. Diesel engine is not too far from that.
Yet, we are still stuck with these ancient technology thanks to the greediness of the oil companies.
If enough resources were put into Hydrogen and Ethanol, most of these passenger cars would be running on them by now. It's no science fiction. We landed on the moon almost half a century ago. And what was the fuel used on those rockets?
Our vehicles and engines are fine. They just need a tweak in technology and getting rid of the old dirty fuel technology.
Imagine if we had run out of fossil fuels by this time as it was predicted back in 60's.
What would we do?
Of course, we would've found a way to improve solar, hydrogen, ethanol, geothermal, wind, etc etc technologies.
We wouldn't go back to horse carriers, carts & push bikes, would we?
Hydrogen and Oxygen is the most abundant(water and air), yet we are still suffering.
It's technology gone inthe wrong economical and environmental direction thanks to the bad version of capitalism that we've allowed the big oil companies to operate.
Try inventing an efficient electric car or a solar car or an ethanol car or even a hydrogen car.
You'll be crushed like a bug in no time.
And I'm not being conspiracy theoretical. There's lot of truth in it. :hijacked: :offtopic: :icon_bonk: :D

[dom14]

Has anyone done this????

With ECU controlled EGR systems, I reckon it's better to do bit of home work to find out how integrated the EGR to the engine stability, before removing/blocking it. Rather than removing it, blocking it from intake and exhaust ends and plugging the vacuum lines to the EGR valve is probably the best approach.

Shhhhhhhhhhhh!!! Don't tell the EPA. We've all done that. There's no EGR out there that's not blocked. ;)
Just a piece of hard tin, drill & and a metal cutter/grinder is all you need. Stuff you already have in your tool box. Or buy a blocking plate off fleabay. Use a bit of silicon on the blocking plate(or a piece of exhaust gasket paper).