Vacuum leak test results on GQ RB30 Patrol

[dom14]

Hey guys,
I just did a cigarette smoke test on my RB30 Patrol today.

Here I attached the photos of the results.
I disconnected the LPG primer vacuum hose from the LPG converter.
Then, I smoked a cigarette and blew the smoke into the LPG primer vacuum hose open end.
Engine was cold and not running
Smoke came out of the air cleaner inlet, top of the LPG mixer & LPG hose joint and then a
temperature sensor(I think) attached to the vacuum line and radiator-cylinder head hose joint(the coolant system)

I would appreciate a bit of help with how to interpret the results.
Thanks

The reason for this test is that the engine is still not running ok. It's hesitating and miss firing more than half of the time.
I'm hoping to rule out any vacuum leak/vacuum advance issues before I move onto other areas to find the issue

[mudnut]

If you suspect a vacuum leak, then
it is easier to spray WD40 around
the hoses, intake and manifold gasket
while the engine is running.
If some spray is drawn into the
engine, then you will hear
the revs increase marginally.

[dom14]

If you suspect a vacuum leak, then
it is easier to spray WD40 around
the hoses, intake and manifold gasket
while the engine is running.
If some spray is drawn into the
engine, then you will hear
the revs increase marginally.

Yeah, I did it few months back with carby cleaner. I couldn't find any.
But, I didn't spray the carby cleaner on this thermal vacuum switch thingy or on the top of the mixer where it leaked this time.
I reckon I should do it fist thing tomorrow morning.

I thought a smoke test is more reliable, except that it can't be done when the engine is running(or can it?).

I found this old thread.

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?9488-Name-this-part!!!

Apparently it's a thermal vacuum switch.
But, the smoke leaking out of it during my cold engine(not running) smoke test kinda indicates it's not working.
It shouldn't leak smoke when it's cold if it only allows vacuum connection pass through when hot.
Either way, I don't think the smoke should come out of it whether the engine is cold or warm.
So, I'm guessing it's gone cactus?!!
But, I need advice from experts here.
For a while, I've been looking into the idea of getting the vacuum advance system checked.
I need to understand how it works first.
I'm slowly doing it at the moment.

[dom14]

I'm also suspecting the possibility the Charcoal fuel vapour canister can be faulty or need cleaning(if that's possible).

Apparently there is a valve inside the Charcoal fuel vapour canister.

I am following few youtube vdeos and google literature to test it first and then fix if it's possible.

[dom14]

This is a quoted post from that above old thread

The valve is a thermal vacuum valve orTVV it is a vacuum valve which controls the EGR or exhaust gas recirculation valve.
It helps with controlling the exhaust gas emissions. You may get an after market one from repco or supercheap other wise just block the hoses off[


I think smoke leaking from the top of this thermal valve can't be right.
I reckon it's faulty.

Can any of you experienced blokes confirm my suspicion?

[dom14]

The problem is that above quoted post says with some good insurance this thermal vacuum switch is actually connected to the EGR system.

That gives me a fright 'cos I have actually blocked the EGR pipe(from exhaust to the inlet manifold.
So, there's no exhaust fumes get into the inlet manifold now.

I need to have a closer look where those two vacuum hoses from the thermal vacuum switch connect to.

I'll post more pictures soon.

I'm also hoping to do the smoke test again tomorrow morning and post the video here.

[dom14]

The reason for this test is that the engine is still not running ok. It's hesitating, miss firing or almost cutting off more than half of the time. I haven't ruled out any electrical issues or distributor itself.
I'm hoping to rule out any vacuum leak/vacuum advance problems before I move onto other areas to find the cause of the problem.


I attached photos below where it shows the vacuum lines from the thermal switch.

[billyj]

i think your better off doing the wd40 test and looking for a change, even hook up a cheap vac gauge and see what differnce in readings you get when it does play up.

what part of the world are you located in mate? kinda hard to diagnose this stuff over the internet

[dom14]

i think your better off doing the wd40 test and looking for a change, even hook up a cheap vac gauge and see what differnce in readings you get when it does play up.

what part of the world are you located in mate? kinda hard to diagnose this stuff over the internet

Yeah, I know mate. It isn't easy. But, I'm fixed on the idea to make it or break it this time.
GQ has been displaying some weird behaviour for a while. WD40 test didn't find anything.
I have an el cheapo vac gauge somewhere in a box. I did it while ago, I reckon it's time for it again.

I like the idea of doing as much as I can, 'cos it comes handy in the bush.
I also like the idea of documenting as much as I can here, so it comes handy for other blokes in a similar situation.
I'm gonna go through the manual again and follow some of the diagnostic tips from there.
Sometime the vehicle runs beautifully without a cough, then next time it's having hiccups.
So, it's kinda sound like electrical, but I'm yet to locate it.
ATM, the engine cold idles at around 500-600 and the problems start out of nowhere when on the road.
Carby was done not too long ago. I gota backup carby, but it idles too high(need some work on it).

[dom14]

What I would 'kill' for is an RB30 Nikki carby repair/service manual.
I'm happy to pay if anybody gota one. Even a PDF one will do.

[mudnut]

How did you go with this;
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?19118-RB30-Carby-This-manual-needed&highlight=rb30+carby

Have you tested the vacuum advance,
choke break and pre-heat diaphragms
for holes or splits?

If it was me, at this point I would look at
all of the simple stuff first. I would make
sure all of the ignition components are
in excellent condition. I would then tune
it to run on petrol fuel first, to eliminate
any problems, before trying to get a
compromise for both fuels.

[dom14]

How did you go with this;
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?19118-RB30-Carby-This-manual-needed&highlight=rb30+carby

Have you tested the vacuum advance,
choke break and pre-heat diaphragms
for holes or splits?

If it was me, at this point I would look at
all of the simple stuff first. I would make
sure all of the ignition components are
in excellent condition. I would then tune
it to run on petrol fuel first, to eliminate
any problems, before trying to get a
compromise for both fuels.

I rebuilt the carby back then. I have cleaned the carby couple of times ever since.
When you say pre-heat diaphragms, I' guessing you are referring to heater at the bottom compartment of the carby?
electric auto choke is(was) working fine.
I need to double check again.
Vacuum advance confuses me.
Sometime it appears to be working ok.
Other time it isn't.
Let me follow the procedure from the manual and test it again.
I'm suspecting an electrical issue(pretty sure) as well.
LPG related I think. The blown fuse(as in my previous post) was for a reason, and I still don't know the reason.
I started cleaning and replacing earth connections and rewiring the bad ones.
I bought conduits from Jaycar to replace the old dodgy LPG wiring.

I totally agree with you about the simple approach.
It's quite possible I'm missing out something basic here.
ignition coil, leads, spark plugs are ok.
Distributor and the points I'm not so sure.
Vacuum advance I'm also not sure.
I also did the "Brake booster test" as pointed out by the Haynes manual, and apparently vehicle brake system failed it.
I'm hoping to start another thread for that.
And of course, focus on one fuel type(petrol) to start with.
When I was doing the carby I was told that it's not possible to fine tune a carby for both petrol and LPG at the same time.
Some sort of ignition adjustment unit is necessary.
It's available from a place in Campbellfield(They are made in US).
I didn't buy it. I decided to put up with the different quirks of power & other engine behaviour between LPG and petrol(by manually adjusting the ignition timing when
necessary).
I was advised by "Altis(George)" to go for the EFI conversion. Still haven't got around to do it. I thought keeping a backup carby will do for the time being, while
I'm hunting for EFI+turbo gear.

I think carby's are old school technology for the most of the techies out there.
They prefer not to do deal with, while few new generation old schoolers like me still sticking with it.

Thanx mate.

[mudnut]

The pre-heat flap on the intake switches the
air from the normal intake to the "stove pipe'
which draws warm air from the exhaust
manifold during a cold start.

If you do go for the EFI, I may be interested
in buying one of your carbies. I believe simple is
best in the bush, and I would rather carry
a carbie than a whole swag of
delicate components.

[dom14]

The pre-heat flap on the intake switches the
air from the normal intake to the "stove pipe'
which draws warm air from the exhaust
manifold during a cold start.

Are you referring to a pre-heat flap in the carby or in the air box?

If you have a look at pictures, you might notice that I have removed the 'snorkel pipe bit',
as well as the foil pipe that connect the warm air from the exhaust manifold to the air filter air intake(via the 'snorkel pipe bit').
I was told a quite a while ago, the warm air intake from the exhaust to the intake pipe is not required in Melbourne climate.
The foil pipe bit that connects the exhaust hot air to the intake pipe was badly tarnished anyway.
Since you mentioned, I might connect the hole thing again and see how it goes.
I will have to buy the alluminium foil pipe bit. The rest is in the garage somewhere.
I know, it's useful during the cold winters(like right now)
From memory, I removed it years ago, when the engine was coughing a fair bit during red hot summer days.
Also, part of the rubber flexi hose bit on the snorkel pipe bit was gone out of shape from the heat over time.
So, i probably need to wrap it with heat resistant duct tape for the time being.


If you do go for the EFI, I may be interested
in buying one of your carbies. I believe simple is
best in the bush, and I would rather carry
a carbie than a whole swag of
delicate components.

I will be going for EFI as well as turbo at some stage. I can't see myself doing it this year until pretty late this year.
You don't want my backup carby. I paid $100 for it and put a kit through as well, and still idling at around 2000 rpm like crxp.
I haven't had a chance to tear it apart and fix it. I think I know where the problem is(some of the throttle butterfly shafts may be
jamming, as I was pointed out to by one of the blokes here).
Running carby is ok. I've done careful work on it with patience(yet still not like a brand new one).

Altis(George) advised me to ditch the carby and go for EFI, so I won't have to bother about tuning for petrol and LPG all the time,
as well as having to do the carby from time to time.
But, there's a $120 solution for that, which adjust the ignition time(I haven't bothered to fit it in)
I'm trying to find the link for that unit, 'cos it was couple of years ago I was onto it, and then gave up.

Most pro mechanics don't like carbies anymore. I still like them for some weird reason.
One reason is as you pointed out is the simplicity, and the ability to carry another one, rather than carrying a whole lot electronic components.
There's no power or fuel economy advantage from EFI, AFAIK.
Turbo to work properly, it needs EFI AFAIK.
I'm also considering sequential injection for the LPG, which would improve the LPG fuel economy as well as possible power increase.
But, I would have to buy it brand new and fit it myself.
It's available on ebay from China, though need some homework to locate a perfectly compatible one.

[mudnut]

If I had an extra carby, I would
hand it to a mate who dynotunes
race cars. He tuned my RB30 to
perfection after cleaning and
whacking a kit into the carby.
I refitted the pre heat and stove
pipe as the carby really struggles
in the cold, after I had to remove
the heater grid at the base.
The grid was crumbling and dropping
bits into the engine. Also it is
a requirement for a roadworthy that
the stove pipe is fitted.

[dom14]

If I had an extra carby, I would
hand it to a mate who dynotunes
race cars. He tuned my RB30 to
perfection after cleaning and
whacking a kit into the carby.
I refitted the pre heat and stove
pipe as the carby really struggles
in the cold, after I had to remove
the heater grid at the base.
The grid was crumbling and dropping
bits into the engine. Also it is
a requirement for a roadworthy that
the stove pipe is fitted.

Hmmm. I reckon it's upto the individual RWC tester. It can be argued as a fuel emission control related thing.
I'll give another go at the second carby soon and if I can't fix it, I'll take it to dyno tuning.

I need to fix the stove pipe and pre heat pipe tomorrow and see how it goes.
At the moment, after a bit of playing this late arvo in the dark, it's running smoothly with extra power that I can feel.
This happened after I "fiddled" with the distributor vacuum line and the charcoal canister vacuum lines.
Have a look at the pictures and the description and let me know what you think.
Thanks mate.

P.S. I don't know the reason for it's running smoothly now. The charcoal canister vacuum lines are blocked now.
I like to think that's not the reason it's running smoothly now.
When I first removed it(two vacuum lines) and blocked them the engine didn't start.
The second time I did that after fiddling with the distributor vacuum line, the engine started
Weird behaviour and probably not related to my fiddling with the vacuum lines??!!!

[mudnut]

Have the hoses gone brittle
and are letting air into the joins?
I have only just replaced the
air cleaner to tappet cover
hose as it had gone hard
and wasn't sealing properly.

[dom14]

Have the hoses gone brittle
and are letting air into the joins?
I have only just replaced the
air cleaner to tappet cover
hose as it had gone hard
and wasn't sealing properly.

Nope. I'm pretty sure they are in good nick.
During my above smoke test they didn't leak any smoke.
And didn't do anything during the WD40 test either.
I reckon, something else is going on.
There's a temperamental issue, either with electrics, carby or vacuum lines somewhere, etc etc.
ATM, I'm trying the elimination technique, rather than locating the culprit(s).

[dom14]

Or the LPG mixer. There was a bit of smoke coming out of the top of the mixer during the smoke test.
The gasket might be leaking. But, it was in good condition(visually) last time I took it off.

[dom14]

Hey guys,
I'm just updating.
So far the vehicle has been going good.
As in the picture N0-5 above, the two vacuum lines are
NOT connected to the charcoal canister anymore. They both are blocked as in the picture 5.

So far, just under 24 hours I've been experiencing amount of power(on LPG) that I haven't been experiencing for quite a few months.
LPG torque response is practical matches the petrol one atm.
Which really surprises me.
I'm not for a second thinking I fixed the problem. But, it's ok atm.
But, I do know at least the electrical issue is still there, if not other issue(s) as well.
I have no idea whether the disconnection of vacuum lines from the charcoal canister helped or fiixed at least
one issue. It all can be a mere coincidence 'cos I played with the distributor vacuum line at the same time.
I would love to hear some feedback from the more experienced patrol gurus out there.
Thanks guys.:cheers:

[dom14]

Vehicle is stilll running pretty ok. I still hear occasional hesitation or misfire, but nothing like before.
There's considerable power increase on LPG.
Only "fix" I did for it was to play with(unplug and plug) the distributor vacuum advance line and blocking the two vacuum lines that
goes to the charcoal canister.
So, guys, what did I do?!
Did I fix it or did I patch?
Any kind of speculative feedback would be great.
Over the internet, via paper mail or a scream in front of my joint. :D

[garett]

if you reconnect the 2 lines to the charcoal canister? does it go back to what it was ? a mighty vac could help you check the vacuum diaphragms, should be a way to check canister and vac advance in the workshop manual, may be just a leaky connection ?

[dom14]

if you reconnect the 2 lines to the charcoal canister? does it go back to what it was ? a mighty vac could help you check the vacuum diaphragms, should be a way to check canister and vac advance in the workshop manual, may be just a leaky connection ?

Hi Garett,
Of course mate. That's a logical way to test "my theory"(faulty canister).
I've got carried away with trying to locate electrical issues, I forgot about it.
I found two electrical issues which I'm about to post on a separate thread in the electrical section.
Before that, I'll go and plug the charcoal canister vacuum lines the way they were and see how it goes.
I didn't understand what you meant by "mighty vac"!
I'll see if there are any tips on how to test canister & vac advance in the manual.
I'm pretty sure no leaks from outside. From the smoke test & WD40 test(can't say 100% sure though, there
might be something I've missed).
I'll go and plug the canister vac lines and see how it goes.
Thanks

[dom14]

I did the following tests in below order.
I started the test on LPG.
Charcoal canister vacuum lines were disconnected and blocked.
I started and it revs and drives ok. Revs can go above 4000rpm without any hiccups.
While engine is still running, I plugged the charcoal canister vacuum lines back into the canister.
Then I tried driving. I couldn't rev above 3000rpm. When I tried engine stalled.
So, I thought it must be the charcoal canister causing the issues.
So, while the engine is still running, I blocked the charcoal canister vacuum lines and test drove again.
Still I couldn't rev about 3000rpm, and worse it even started stalling even in 2000 rpm.
All these rev tests were done while trying to take off on gear.
Then, I did the high revving while the vehicle is on neutral gear.
Now, it revs above 4000rpm without issues.

So, on LPG, the stalling happens whether the charcoal canister vacuum lines are blocked or connected.
Stalling doesn't happen when the engine is revved high on neutral

Then I switched the fuel to petrol and drove the vehicle while trying to rev high.
Now, it revs on petrol above 4000rpm without any issues on petrol.

So, on petrol, it seems to be going fine.

Weird behaviour!!!
What do I make out of this?
After above playing with vacuum lines, it's not running properly on LPG now, whether charcoal canister vacuum lines are blocked or connected.

NOTICE!
Hey guys, please pardon me. Above test results were wrong.
It all caused by a combination of a faulty LPG gauge & my stupid assumption(s).
Explanation is on the next post

[dom14]

Hey guys,
My sincere apologies for wasting brain time with the above test.
Special apology to Garett for wasting your brain time with the above stuffed up 'test'.
I'm a stupid idiot!
The weird behaviour was caused by running out of LPG(sounds pathetic I know).
I couldn't high rev on LPG 'cos the main tank was running out of LPG(damn gauge was showing one green bar though)

1)I have two LPG tanks. Only the main tank has a gauge connected to the dashboard.
And that gauge turned ought to be faulty. It shows one green bar, even when the tank it empty.

2)I shut off the auxiliary LPG tank from the tank tap. I was under the stupid assumption
that closing the tap won't fill the tank. Two tanks are connected via a hydro T-valve.
Shutting the tank tap only stops the LPG coming out of the tank, then going to hydro valve and then going to the
inlet from there. But, that won't stop from the tank from getting filled.(Correct me if I'm wrong).
Both tanks are sharing the same filling point(no separate fillers).
When I checked the auxiliary tank, it has a full tank of gas from getting filled over the time.
I shut the tank a while ago 'cos it was making funny noises, but stupidly thought it
would shut the LPG outlet as well.

Lately, I've been getting about 4km per litre of LPG instead of 5km per litre.
I thought that 'cos of my high revving and performance issues with the fuel system.
But the obvious reason was some of the gas was filling up the aux tank via the hydro
valve and getting trapped in there, thanks to my stupid assumption.
Obviously I need a separate tap for the aux tank fill line, if I'm to isolate it completely.

Please don't get me wrong, even though I made the above stupid mistake, I was still having issues with the fuel system,
and it's most likely whatever was causing it is still there, including the potential electrical issues with the fuel system.


So, here is the latest accurate outcome.

1)Whether the charcoal canister vaccum lines are blocked or connected, it is not making any difference to the
the way engine is running. So, It's apparent the charcoal canister or the two vacuum lines connected to it
have nothing to do with the issues I've been having before.
2) Above is the same for both LPG and petrol.

Obviously for my needs, I either need a separate filler for the aux tank or a separate shut off valve/tap for the aux tank fill line,
as well as a separate dashboard gauge for the aux tank.
I also need to get the main tank dashboard gauge replaced. It could be either the gauge or the sender.
I couldn't check the main tank sender, 'cos it's under the chassis(It's a PITA job).

[dom14]

This is my setup with AMR T-valve, exactly as in the diagram.

http://www.amrgas.com/hydrostatic-tee-valves#prettyPhoto[123]/0/

[dom14]

The vehicle is going fairly well on LPG atm.
Occasional hiccup here and there, occasional hesitation here and there, but all around
far better than before.
Funny thing is that I have no idea how I fixed it, or whether I fixed it at all.
Any thoughts guys?!

[dom14]

:feedback:

[garett]

that could be a mixer issue a converter issue or maybe a tuning one ... depends on when exactly it happens, easiest is prob check how clean mixer is, followed by converter, if i remember right should just be cleaning of the rear section.

but drive it for a bit and see if it comes back.

[dom14]

that could be a mixer issue a converter issue or maybe a tuning one ... depends on when exactly it happens, easiest is prob check how clean mixer is, followed by converter, if i remember right should just be cleaning of the rear section.

but drive it for a bit and see if it comes back.

Hey Garett,
Thanks mate. I'm driving the fourby everyday now. On LPG, it has a slight misfire when cold, then goes away after 10-15 minutes or so.
But, I reckon, whatever the issue was, it must be still there. I must have patched it up with my vacuum line fiddling.
I'll see how it goes. Still can't find the damn vacuum tester. :D
Cheers.
Dom
P.S. I'm gonna put the rebuild kit through the original LPG converter and fit it in soon. So, that should help as well.
I will get to the LPG mixer dismantling as well, once I've done some reading to understand how it works, I should
be able to know what I'm doing. :)

[GQ TANK]

Did you find a caby manual?

The tb42 and RB30 carbys are basically the same - different jets sizes, rb30 has the honey comb heater and I think the autochoke setup is differant

[dom14]

Did you find a caby manual?

The tb42 and RB30 carbys are basically the same - different jets sizes, rb30 has the honey comb heater and I think the autochoke setup is differant

I found a similar one mate, but not the same.

If you look at my old thread,

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?19118-RB30-Carby-This-manual-needed

there are three pages of that particular manual.
I've been looking for the entire manual of those three pages, but couldn't locate it.

I was directed to below manual,

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bzy-cXUDftdrNDVjMzVmMzktMWQ3OS00NjExLWFkN2EtZmMyZWZjN2 NhZDZm/view

which was a generic one similar to the RB30 Nikki carby. It was helpful.
I have a back up carby which I have dismantled and tried to repair couple of times, but still idle revving way too high.
I'm planning to tear it apart and fix it when I get a chance.

I couldn't tell the difference of TB42 and RB30 Nikki carbys just by looking at them.
They look pretty identical without having each one of them in hand to compare.

If you are right, then the carbies are interchangeable with the exception of the jets, which can be swapped over.

Thanks for the tip.

I'm basically after a complete manual for RB30 Nikki carby and Patrol RB30 fuel system setup(vacuum lines, etc).
I couldn't find the detailed information I'm after in Haynes manual & the factory manual.
I'm not too sure about the Gregory's manual.
I'm looking for a PDF or scanned copy of Gregory's manual.
But, I don't think Gregory's has any more information than Haynes, but good to have a one anyway.

Cheers
Dom

[billyj]

ive got the gregorys and a haynesfor my gq tb42e and the gregorys has easily 3 time more info in it than the haynes on the carbys fromt he quick look i just had. that said its an older copy, the new gregorys manuals are absolute rubbish. i brought a gregorys for my vs v8 ute and half the pics arent even a bloody comodore

[dom14]

ive got the gregorys and a haynesfor my gq tb42e and the gregorys has easily 3 time more info in it than the haynes on the carbys fromt he quick look i just had. that said its an older copy, the new gregorys manuals are absolute rubbish. i brought a gregorys for my vs v8 ute and half the pics arent even a bloody comodore

Any chance of getting a copy of gregory's via email, etc mate?
Thanx

[billyj]

i can probly scan and email the carby pages but not gonna sit there and scan all 300 odd pages

[billyj]

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Nissan-Patrol-Ford-Maverick-DA-GQ-Gregorys-Workshop-Manual-/141696378344?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item20fdc325e8

thats the manual i have

[dom14]

i can probly scan and email the carby pages but not gonna sit there and scan all 300 odd pages

Thanks mate.
No, I'm pretty sure you got better things to do with your time than spending hours scanning 300 pages.
I thought you have the pdf version already with you.

I've been wondering whether the carby pages I mentioned in below thread were actually from Gregory's.
If that's the case, those pages would be really handy to have.

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?19118-RB30-Carby-This-manual-needed

[dom14]

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Nissan-Patrol-Ford-Maverick-DA-GQ-Gregorys-Workshop-Manual-/141696378344?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item20fdc325e8

thats the manual i have

Thanx Billyj,
I've been actually looking for a PDF version, 'cos it's so handy to use than
printed books. I've given up on printed books(not exactly)
The books I find on paper and that I need, I scan them and keep them as PDF,
for the sake of convenience(easy to read with a laptop, tablet, etc & never wears out).
I'll see if I can offer this guy an offer he can't refuse. :D
I'm also searching for a VL commodore manual, for obvious reason 'cos
it covers RB30 as well as turbo stuff.

[dom14]

This should help me.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Holden-Commodore-VL-1986-1988-SERVICE-REPAIR-MANUAL-/331580302951?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item4d33b9e667

[billyj]

yep those pages in your other thread are from the gregorys like ive got here

[dom14]

yep those pages in your other thread are from the gregorys like ive got here

Thanx mate. It took over two years for me to get that information.
Finally, you enlightened me. :Yahoo!::D
Now I know, I need to have Gregory's manual in my arsenal.
If you are anywhere near, I could've borrowed it & scan the whole thing.
I like docs in ebook format. Saves me lot of trouble
Too bad for me, you're too far away.
:cheers:

[billyj]

i like my manuals to be hard copies, if im doing anything that i need the manual its right there with me getting dirty, whether its for my patrol or a spec book for the holden v8 stroker i just finished building

[dom14]

Yes, it works fine, especially when you don't expect the manual to last forever.
I tend to stick with same car for years, so prefer the idea of having a copy of manual everywhere
I go without missing pages. PDF is the only portable solution in that degree.
It also helped to reduce the number of hard copy books in my small living space.
Only downside is that I have to rely on modern piece of technology and energy to access the most of the books/manuals. It's not that bad, it's kinda technology available pretty much everywhere nowadays.I simply have to carry a USB stick around with me.

And I like my hands getting dirty(well, not all the time :D), but the manual to look pristine.
I use an old beaten up laptop for outdoor stuff. :D :1087:

[billyj]

oily hand prints just make it easier to find your page again, i actually dont really use the manual that much anymore unless i need to look up a torque spec etc

[dom14]

:))
That was true when I had the Falcon.
But I was always angry with the manual 'cos until I severely injured the spine of
the book, it kept refusing to stay open on the table without my hands on it.
I liked the idea of the running between the bonnet and the manual without having to hold it :)