Losing boost..

[mullet_hunter]

Hi fellow patrol owners... went to jump in my bus this arvo..went fora drive and it seems like it won't boost past 2000 rpms...goes up to and 5-7psi then will drop off to nothing.. After 2000rpm it's got no balls... Is this what they call limp mode? Zd30..

[AB]

Hi fellow patrol owners... went to jump in my bus this arvo..went fora drive and it seems like it won't boost past 2000 rpms...goes up to and 5-7psi then will drop off to nothing.. After 2000rpm it's got no balls... Is this what they call limp mode? Zd30.. hopefully someone with a zd30 can help mate but it sounds like a leak and not holding pressure in my opinion. Check every connection from turbo to inlet manifold.

See if you can see any carbon deposit on any hose seals too?

[mullet_hunter]

Ye if feels like it's leaking boost.. Like when a hose comes off the intercooler.. But it's not blowing any black smoke and hoses look alright... Will need to have a better look over the weekend..

[mudski]

Whats it like prior 2000rpm? Cleaned the maf lately. Could be a boost leak. Condition of the intercooler? Is it oem or aftermarket? Any oil leaking from the intercooler?

[mudski]

Also what about the fuel filter. Last changed? When you get limp mode if you let off the go pedal and back on again it goes away.

[mullet_hunter]

Ye it seems if u let off the gas pedal then it will boost to arnd 2000rpm.. then nothing over that... is this what they mean by limp mode.. im just a bit dumb founded how its just happened nw.. been running 27psi befor with no dramas no i cnt get it to boost much over 7 to 10psi...

[mullet_hunter]

Mafs clean.. new fuel filter when i done injector pump few weeks back.. will have to have a better look into the weeknd...

[MudRunnerTD]

Split hose for sure mate.

[mullet_hunter]

Ye it drives and feels like the same as if it blows the intercooler hose off but no black smoke.. and hoses and clamps look tight n all in place...

[threedogs]

With MR possible hose split or from running big boost split the IC open a bit more.
You can remove the IC and check in water with a bike pump, make sure its dry before you replace
it a hair dryer will help.
At Mudski MH is running a HPD Maf housing, you mentioned a
while back they should eliminate all over boost probs?

[shan-747]

How do you stop the limp mode from happening

[shan-747]

And have a good look at every hose mate it might look food but moght have a little hole in it

[threedogs]

How do you stop the limp mode from happening

but fitting nads you can control the boost preventing limp or over boost mode

[mullet_hunter]

Ye will take off intercooler piping and hoses and check for any leaks.. it will boost upto 2000rpm but after that it drops off to nothing.. wouldnt be suprised if ive split either a hose or intercooler as i was running pretty high boost at arnd 27psi...

[mullet_hunter]

Well I found time to look into why I'm losing boost.. Hoses and pipes looked alright as did intercooler... But thought I'd pull intercooler off to double check and next minute bubbles... Haha well I guess it was gona happen sooner or later running that much boost... Now time to get me a replacement...just gona go with a factory replacement with the end tanks tigged up...

[IronVoid]

You can remove the IC and check in water with a bike pump, make sure its dry before you replace
it a hair dryer will help.


Could you expand on how to do this a bit more please? Need to check my I/C.

[mullet_hunter]

So you remove intercooler... tape up both ends... put it in a tub of water.. then preasurise it using either a bike pump or in my case an air gun making sure to only feather the trigger... then look for bubbles... if its hrd to push dwn into the water and wants to float or u cant see any visible bubbles its good.. or in my case if it bubbles and gets heavy frn water getn inside then shes leaking..lol..
When testing i usually dip the flush taped end dwn into the water first and preasure the bent end up the top that way ur not putting the sensor into the water...

[IronVoid]

Excellent, thanks mate. Will check mine tonight, fingers crossed it's my problem as well, at least then I know what's going on.

[mullet_hunter]

Good luck with ur intercooler mate...i went for a quick drive arnd the block... first time i seen my egts go over 400... so it does go to show that the more boost the lower ur egts...

[mudski]

With MR possible hose split or from running big boost split the IC open a bit more.
You can remove the IC and check in water with a bike pump, make sure its dry before you replace
it a hair dryer will help.
At Mudski MH is running a HPD Maf housing, you mentioned a
while back they should eliminate all over boost probs?
The hpd housing doesn't eliminate over boost issues. It simply allows you to overboost.
Good to see the op has found the issue.

[threedogs]

Good find MH a factory tigged IC is about 33% bigger than stock, so a small gain to be had.
Have a look at an XR6 IC I think they would be very close to working .

[Val]

Also what about the fuel filter. Last changed? When you get limp mode if you let off the go pedal and back on again it goes away.

Hi Mudski, what you said above is what's happening to my year 2000 model Patrol. Do you know what is the fix on this problem?

Cheers

[mudski]

Hi Mudski, what you said above is what's happening to my year 2000 model Patrol. Do you know what is the fix on this problem?

Cheers
thats limp mode mate. Its usually caused by engine overboosting. The zd's ecu has an overboost safety precaution which is usually around the 16psi. Some times giving the maf a clean helps. Or replacing the maf, or fitting a dawes and needle valve. The dawes is designed so you can limit the maximum boost pressure so its below the limp mode over boost threshold.

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[Val]

Thanks mate. I will clean and check MAF sensor then if it is working fine.
Would you be able to send me a copy of Nissan Patrol Reference Document to my email address as I don't have enough post yet to download it? bon2x_77@yahoo.com

Cheers
Val

[Val]

Thank you for the info Mudsky.
Hi to all,
I want to share what we (me and my electronic engineer) did to fix this limp mode problem that we call without spending a single dollar. Since after checking all the sensors that I know (MAF, Engine TEMP and boost sensor) and proven that they are all working fine, I've tweak few times the variable turbocharger control actuator and that dropping of my boost disappeared. I’ve felt more power on the acceleration now even my boost goes up to 14 psi only.

[mudski]

Thank you for the info Mudsky.
Hi to all,
I want to share what we (me and my electronic engineer) did to fix this limp mode problem that we call without spending a single dollar. Since after checking all the sensors that I know (MAF, Engine TEMP and boost sensor) and proven that they are all working fine, I've tweak few times the variable turbocharger control actuator and that dropping of my boost disappeared. I’ve felt more power on the acceleration now even my boost goes up to 14 psi only.

Yeah thats also done here but for many its a pretty tricky job. Hence using a needle valve. Does the same as what you did but you can adjust it with minutes without touching the actuator. Get more boost into it mate and it will go even better.

Cheers.
Mark.

[Val]

Hi Mudsky,

Thank for the advice mate. I like doing mechanical job (but I'm not experienced yet) so I think if I can get hold off on how to do this dawes and needle valve I will try it one day. How much do you think this dawes and needle valve kit that I need?

Anyone from Bundaberg Queensland in this forum?

Cheers
Val

[mudski]

They're $154 (with EGR plate) plus $12, but member get 10% of the item price... $154 including post without the plate.

[Val]

Thanks mate. I'll get my boss (wife) to put a budget on this.

Cheers

[NissanGQ4.2]

Thanks mate. I will clean and check MAF sensor then if it is working fine.
Would you be able to send me a copy of Nissan Patrol Reference Document to my email address as I don't have enough post yet to download it? bon2x_77@yahoo.com

Cheers
Val

Bump for Val as post went into moderation due 2 email address.

Val, type in "nissan patrol reference document" into google, first listing should be the Nissan patrol reference document hosted on another site that is a downloadable pdf file :)

[mullet_hunter]

Fitted new intercooler and rig still wouldn't boost... Pretty sure it's got something to do with vac system... So went and plugd ports at solanoid and setup Dawes and needle valve... But I can't get it to boost over 10psi... Even wiv Dawes valves right in? Bloody pootrol... Thinking of just getn one of them diesel smart actuators set for 24psi... Is anyone on here running one... I think there like 220 or something but have only herd good feedback... It bypasses the whole factory vacuum system altogether...

[mudski]

Pull the dawes apart mate and just check the spring and ball to make sure its ok in there. Double check that all hoses and clamps are on good. Which imsure you have done. Also try winding in the needle valve so its closed totally. See what happens when you go for a drive.

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[mullet_hunter]

Ended up getn it to boost... Disconnected battery... Cleaned maf sensor.. Triple checked all hoses and conections... Started bus.. Opened the needle to the actuator arm fell away frm grub screw then adjusted to it went back up n touched the grub screw... Dawes valve is wound right in til there's no more thread... I'm seeing arnd 18psi nw... The 4 inch is sucking in some serious air... And when I turn off the rig it sounds almost like someone's flushing a toilet.. Lol.. Is this normal?

[Rock Trol]

And when I turn off the rig it sounds almost like someone's flushing a toilet.. Lol.. Is this normal?

That does not sound normal. Also, you should be able to get more than 18psi boost max. Are you running a different intake pipe?

[mullet_hunter]

I knw the snorkels are suppose to suck air but mine sucks realy hrd.. Like if I block the inlet of my snorkle wiv my hand there's so much preasure there that u can see the whole airbox flex.. Lol.. It won't stall either it just wnts to keep sucking.. Feels and sounds like those vacumes that are used at the servos to clean ur car... If I open up the needle valve the flush noise goes away but then there's lagy spool up rate.. I have hpd maf housing and billet lid and 4 inch snorkle all the way to airbox... Max boost I've seen is 20... Ideally I want to set arnd 24psi... But I've maxed out Dawes valve?

[Rock Trol]

What happens if you run it without the Dawes valve. It's only there to set a ceiling on the boost.

[mudski]

That sound is just because of the larger id snorkel and tge sound is resonating further up the snorkel. The flushing sound via the needle valve is air being sucked through the needle valve back toward the intake. Im not so sure the sound should be something to worry about. Your snorkel is larger, metal and round. The intake sound will be different for sure.
What air filter are you running?

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[mullet_hunter]

it use to boost upto 27psi.. (ecu controlled) then it just started boosting to arnd 5psi..and gradually upto 10-15psi... if i would put my foot down boost would drop to 0... really weird.. i thought it must had been leaking intercooler not holding boost so replaced and still same problem.. losing boost.. so thought id go back to manual boost control wiv dawes and needle valve but for some reason the dawes valve is limiting max boost to around 18-20psi... drives good but far from what it use to go like with the higher boost? i guess most would be happy wiv it.. spools and drives hard.. but it feels like it doesn't have the bigger power band it use to have.. its like after it reaches 3000rpm or 18psi it runs out of puff... as before it use to pull hrd in every gear.. egts rarely went over 300-350..

[mullet_hunter]

k&n filter...

[Rock Trol]

Is the vacuum hose still running through the vacuum solenoid? Maybe its limiting the boost?
If so, maybe you could try running the hose directly to the needle/dawes valve.

[mullet_hunter]

vacuum hose going to otherside of needle valve.. solenoid currently blocked off.. will take some pics tomorrow.. maybe I've missed something?

[threedogs]

HI MH have you tried stretching the dawes spring a tad, bare in mind its hard to "UN" stretch,
not impossible though. You can get heavier springs from somewhere to suit the dawes

[mullet_hunter]

Havnt tryed stretching the spring yet... Thought it would be ok as its brand new...

[threedogs]

Not always thats why someone, Darren Dawes I think supplies
a heavier spring to allow more boost to be screwed in

[mullet_hunter]

Here's couple pics of how iv got it setup... Maybe some one can correct me if I've done it wrong or missed something...



59318

3 ports on solenoid blocked... Line coming off airbox to front of needle valve...



59319

This pic shows t piece.. One hose coming frm needle valve... The other coming frm vac pump wiv green inline filter and the third going to Dawes valve..



59320

The black hose going streight onto the Dawes valve is the black hose coming off the t frm the needle valve... The 2nd hose at the 90 degree angle is going back to the actuator... And the rear port if the Dawes valve is going to a t piece.. One side goes to intercooler pipe showed in pic below and the other to the boost gauge...

59321

Have I missed anything... Havnt tyres stretching the spring just yet but might give it a go...

[mullet_hunter]

If I adjust my needle valve will it adjust my power delivery curve? Will get close to full boost (15-18psi) just over 2000rpm... But after that it's like nothing happens ... By the time I get to just over 3000rpm I'm seeing a solid 20 pound on the gauge... I'm wanting to make the power curve bigger say frm 1k to 3k then for it to drop off after that... At the moment it's going frm arnd 1000rpm to just over 2000rpm.. Theres the slowest pickup between 2-4k in rpms...

[mudski]

If I adjust my needle valve will it adjust my power delivery curve? Will get close to full boost (15-18psi) just over 2000rpm... But after that it's like nothing happens ... By the time I get to just over 3000rpm I'm seeing a solid 20 pound on the gauge... I'm wanting to make the power curve bigger say frm 1k to 3k then for it to drop off after that... At the moment it's going frm arnd 1000rpm to just over 2000rpm.. Theres the slowest pickup between 2-4k in rpms...

Everything is hooked up right. Adjusting the needle valve will affect the boost curve, I would close off the needle valve more and try that. It seems that the needle valve is still open a tad too much maybe. Don't stretch the spring. Your Dawes has the stronger spring in it already.
I have been/ was trialing a 1mm larger ID hose to the boost side of the Dawes and I saw slightly better results. PM me you details mate and I'll send you a metre of it to try. If you want to try a new spring I also sell them too, but i don't think this is your issue.

[mullet_hunter]

Cheers mudski... Will have a play around with the needle valve and see what happens.. It's currently more closed than open... Not to sure what's going on with the Dawes valve.. All looks good but I've got it wound right in til there's no more thread... It drives ok but it feels like as soon as it reaches 15psi it maxes out.. Like u can put your foot right to the floor and nothing happens? Feels like it's not only restricting boost but overall power... Thanks for the offer with the larger Id hose... If I can't get it set up how I want it.. Il be getn a diesel smart actuator set to 24psi... Herd they go alright... Also looks at one of there smart xt modules.... At e moment my egts are really low... And the 250 mark...

[Sir Roofy]

Cheers mudski... Will have a play around with the needle valve and see what happens.. It's currently more closed than open... Not to sure what's going on with the Dawes valve.. All looks good but I've got it wound right in til there's no more thread... It drives ok but it feels like as soon as it reaches 15psi it maxes out.. Like u can put your foot right to the floor and nothing happens? Feels like it's not only restricting boost but overall power... Thanks for the offer with the larger Id hose... If I can't get it set up how I want it.. Il be getn a diesel smart actuator set to 24psi... Herd they go alright... Also looks at one of there smart xt modules.... At e moment my egts are really low... And the 250 mark...

open the dawes valve up to about a good 1/4'' or a tad more and work back from there just a bee,s d ck at a time will take a while unless you snag it first up

[threedogs]

Yo MH what type of vacuum hose are you using, its not collapsing on you.
just throwing stuff out there, seems EFI fuel line works a treat, only 25c a mtr
Some of the fancy silicon stuff is shite

[mudski]

Cheers mudski... Will have a play around with the needle valve and see what happens.. It's currently more closed than open... Not to sure what's going on with the Dawes valve.. All looks good but I've got it wound right in til there's no more thread... It drives ok but it feels like as soon as it reaches 15psi it maxes out.. Like u can put your foot right to the floor and nothing happens? Feels like it's not only restricting boost but overall power... Thanks for the offer with the larger Id hose... If I can't get it set up how I want it.. Il be getn a diesel smart actuator set to 24psi... Herd they go alright... Also looks at one of there smart xt modules.... At e moment my egts are really low... And the 250 mark...

Dont bother about the DS actuator yet mate. I read on the other forum a few with it and reckon it was shite. Dunno how true that is though...When your running higher boost levels you need the needle valve shut almost right off. Mine was only open just the slightest bit, when running 25psi. Open a smidge too much and it was crap to drive. just send me your details bud. I'll get it off tomorrow and you will have it by early next week...You got nothing to lose...

@ John. If the vacuum hose was collapsing, he would see very erratic boost rises. As shutting off the needle valve does this, which is on the vacuum side...

Also try this. As Roofy had a similar issue too from memory. The T fitting in the top of the Dawes was leaking on his. See if yours is sealed properly. If not or unsure, try so seal it up with some good glue or sometihng, just incase its got a leak from there. I'm starting to run out of idea's.
turbo's not pumping any oil is it? Impellor still nice and tight?

[mullet_hunter]

Had another play around wiv it.. still having trouble trying to set it right... noticed it went a bit better if i pissd of the green vacume filter... does anyone knw which ports go to what for standard configeration at the boost solanoid... tryna figer out if its my dawes valve why i cnt get it to boost over 18-psi... also the more i open up the needle valve the less boost i see on the gauge.. if its opened up then it will bearly see 3 psi? Heres a pic of boost solanoid.. what goes where frm left to right.. in standard configeration...thnx


59335

[mudski]

Yes that correct. The more you open the needle valve, your boost will drop also. Close off the needle valve right shut mate. Then only open it a little and see. Like i said. High boost levels, you will need to have the needle valve almost closed.

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[mullet_hunter]

ye thats how I've had it set. closed then open it till arm drops away then close it till arm jus touches grub screw... hay mark do u knw what hoses go to what ports for standard setup?

[Rock Trol]

Here is a diagram (by Chaz Yellowfoot) of the standard set up.

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=59337&stc=1

[Rock Trol]

Actually, looking at it now I think you are running a hose straight off the Air Filter Resonator. That might be the problem. Set it up as in the diagram and give it a go.

[mullet_hunter]

I thought the needle valve comes off resonator for clean air supply? Tryed in that configuration and the boost gauge was spiking.. tryed it back wiv inline filter off vac line and needle plumbd into resonator and still spiking but feels better to drive.. lol.. things doing my head in.. and why and hw can my boost spike if ive got a dawes valve? Just wana triple chek something. The ball bearing goes into the backside of dawes valve then spring then screw threads back togther... and i have needle valve setup wiv the line from resonator to the side were theres a 18 etched into it.. so on the top blue nob right is tighten and left is losen... either in missing something or its not working like its suppose to. Or both. Lol...

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[mullet_hunter]

59342

Anyone knw what goes where in standard form.. i cnt remembr... one frm turbo actuator and ones frm vac pump n then other goes frm the solanoid back to resonator air box? Just cnt member which goes to which?


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[mudski]

The pic rock trol posted, go by this for the standard setup. Its just the dawes in that pic with no needle valve, so it basically Tees in the line from the controlerto turbo.
When you put a needle valve in the mix. One end on the needle valve goes from the air resonator box and the other to the small T. And then so on.
Going by your pic MH your is setup right.

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[mudski]

ye thats how I've had it set. closed then open it till arm drops away then close it till arm jus touches grub screw... hay mark do u knw what hoses go to what ports for standard setup?
The arm on the turbo actuator adjuster has a painted section on it. So you know if someone has adjusted it. Can you tell if yours has been played with?

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[mullet_hunter]

Theres yellow paint marker ontop by grub screw nothing on the actually arm i dont think.. will take a pic and post it up tomorrow...

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[mudski]

Yeah where you can adjust the arm i mean. If the two paint lines dont match up, its been played with before. If so it might be a contributing factor...

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[threedogs]

Im about to change all my boost hoses to
some that have spring loaded clips on them

[mullet_hunter]

Turbo actuator looks ok? Finally after playn with the dawes n needle valve all day the best i got it is boostn arnd 17psi... no bouncing of boost on the gauge.. smooth linear power delivery... wil just have to keep it like this until i get that ecu talk gauge off ya mudski... i think i might have a faulty tps hence why it wont boost as high and feels slugish even when i jump on it.. plus yhe randm idle up issues...just easier to trouble shoot everything... also been lookn into getn diesel smart xt module.. 25kw increase at the wheels.. eliminates limp mode.. has timing control over ip pump and 5 preset tunes... and maybe put on one of there acutators aswel... get rid of the whole vac system altogethr... more $$$.. dont knw which is more exspensive 4 wheel drives or old school v8s...[emoji12]

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2015/07/29.jpg

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[mudski]

Dont believe the hype of a sellers power percentage gains. Even with reputable performance chip sellers. Take it with a grain of salt.

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[mullet_hunter]

It pretty much does everythng i wnt it to do.. piss of limp mode issues.. add extra fuel.. has the throtle pedal mod.. control over injector pump.. and 5 pre set tunes. And stil cheaper than unichip...and only need to tap into one wire on the injectir pump.. rest is plug n playy...

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[threedogs]

@ MH its a 3lt Turbo diesel for crying out loud, how fast do you expect to go.
They are highly strung from the factory, might be chasing your tail,
you might be better of slotting a LS1 in it, lol

[mullet_hunter]

Haha i just wnt it boostn hrd like it was befor.. lol.. and yes ls1 conversion would most likey be on the cards if n when pin drops...

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[mullet_hunter]

Quick update.. turns out loss of power was due to faulty maf sensor... 2ndly big shout out to mudski/mark for helpn me out by sending me a spare couple of maf sensors to test out... seriously top bloke.. always willing to help out fellow forum members like myself.. legend in my books... cheers mate people like u do this forum proud..

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[mudski]

So which one worked? I dont mind helping others out. I know the feeling when you've tried just about everything and don't know what to do next.

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[mullet_hunter]

One with grease on the o ring...

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