DieselCare fuel manager filter - GU ZD30

[skiman]

Hi guys

I've been doing some investigation into diesel fuel managers/ filters/ water separation systems and am just about ready to go ahead with the mod. Only thing that has me stumped at the moment is where to fit it.

I called Dieselcare in Tamworth this morning and they recommended a secondary filter (which goes AFTER the OEM filter) because the 2 micron Dieselcare filter is much better and will catch more than the factory one. Fuel flow rates were quoted as 300L/h. My intention is to install a low pressure lift pump at the same time as well (but that will go in the rear).


FM100 Series - up to 350HP
• Max fuel flow (inc. return flow) 300 Litres/hour
• Particulate Filter Efficiency up to 99% @ 2 microns (TR13353)
• Water Separation Up to 98% efficiency
The FM 100 Series consists of a cast aluminum mounting header, with a choice of threaded ports of almost any configuration up to M16 x 1.5 'O' ring in size. "Push-in" quick fit connectors can also be specified, making fuel line connections easy, quick, and less costly. The filter elements interface with the header using a patented "Key Track" system, which, like the FM 10 Series, is designed to ensure that only the correct, genuine service element can be installed on the header.


The image on their website for a fitted unit looks like this

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I asked them to send me some install instructions have attached those here on my google drive (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0By6CACqxVW9jaWVYLVYtWllRT1E/view?usp=sharing).

That would be fine, however, I have a Provent catch can already fitted in that back corner plus a second battery.

58128

There is a redarc battery switch sitting on that bracket which could be moved back, or onto the firewall, but im not sure if that would leave me with enough room to fit the fuel manager. Can someone post a pic of where they have theirs fitted if you have a dual battery setup please? Would love some measurements of the filter so I can see if it would fit where i've got in mind.

58129

As you can see, its getting crowded in there. :confused: Even if it does get installed there, will i have enough access to check the glass bowl at the bottom for water and purge it etc?

Open to other suggestions or advice on the matter too. Thanks for reading and look forward to your thoughts.

Cheers

[Rock Trol]

I had one installed in my Troll but have removed it since. Mine was installed where your ABS brake unit is located. I have a DX with no such witchcraft installed but it was still tight and I could not get a good look at the water separator bowl. It was also causing too much drag on the pump and sucking in air as I did not have a lift pump installed either.

There is just too much going on in these engine bays to make it a simple fit. I think the only way will be to get some sort of bracket fabricated which allows the FM to fit. I have not bothered to reinstall mine and doubt that I will on the Patrol. I just change the OEM filter regularly and it seems to work well.

[mudski]

As what Rock Troll has stated, there's a crap load already in the engine bay, and the filter already there will do a sufficient job of filtering anyhow. However, if you were to do a lot of outback driving where dirty fuel would be more common, I would be putting one in, especially if its a CRD. The tollerances in the injectors is far smaller than what it is in a Di. If its a Di and you do don't see your self using fuel that would have a high chance of contaminants, I wouldn't bother. Just keep a spare filter on board.
Also with those filter setups, I would be wary of the clear bowl on the underside. If anything hits it and it breaks your fubar. Protect it with some good rubber and make up a bypass system too so if it does break or theres a leak, you can simply turn a tap and bypass the entire secondary filter.
As for the lift pump, buy something with a range of 6-8psi and around 100gph fuel delivery. From what I have read, anything more can have an adverse affect and just make things worse. Don't know how true this is though, but just a thought. I bought a Carter 4600HP pump but have yet to fit it.
You should do the spill line bypass mod too while your at it. This mod is simple and your spill line from the injectors will now go into a T piece in the return line, that goes back to your fuel tank. Rather than going into your injector pump.

Edit : I would also try my hardest to fit the secondary filter on the right side away from the turbo. You don't really want hot diesel do you? :)

[skiman]

Thanks for the input guys. I may sound paranoid but after reading so many posts of people ruining their injectors, pumps, fuel sludge, algae, replacement costs of said parts, I figure that $300 is a small price to pay for the extra protection.

Interestingly, I followed up my conversation to Dieselcare with another phone call this morning. Our discussion digressed to catch cans and EGR block valves. Short story he said to get rid of the catch can and not to block the EGR - which really surprised me. His argument was that oil going back into the engine would keep the turbo lubricated and prevent it from blowing up, and that blocking the EGR would screw the boost in the system when the ECU decides to do a random boost test. :confused: And also that the grenade was due to oxy flow sensor, not lack of oil or temp spikes. In the end, he said stop reading all the stuff you read in the forum and besides the fuel filter, to leave the engine alone. All this is somewhat off topic but it surprises me that so many diesel mechanics laugh at the NADS..

Back on topic.. Dieselcare sent me another set of instructions for fitment to the driver side (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0By6CACqxVW9jMmV4RjQ1elRiczA/view?usp=sharing), which looks doable and is actually the preferred side (for the reasons Mudski mentioned - hot fuel). Dieselcare also said that a lift pump is not required as the OEM pump is strong enough to pull fuel through both filters without issue. I guess time will tell.

Im going to order one of these systems in a couple weeks and see how it goes. Will also look into big fletch's Lift Pump and spill line mod (http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?32708-ZD30-Lift-Pump-Mod&highlight=fuel+manager).

Feels like this is way over my head :eek:

[mudski]

Thanks for the input guys. I may sound paranoid but after reading so many posts of people ruining their injectors, pumps, fuel sludge, algae, replacement costs of said parts, I figure that $300 is a small price to pay for the extra protection.

Interestingly, I followed up my conversation to Dieselcare with another phone call this morning. Our discussion digressed to catch cans and EGR block valves. Short story he said to get rid of the catch can and not to block the EGR - which really surprised me. His argument was that oil going back into the engine would keep the turbo lubricated and prevent it from blowing up, and that blocking the EGR would screw the boost in the system when the ECU decides to do a random boost test. :confused: And also that the grenade was due to oxy flow sensor, not lack of oil or temp spikes. In the end, he said stop reading all the stuff you read in the forum and besides the fuel filter, to leave the engine alone. All this is somewhat off topic but it surprises me that so many diesel mechanics laugh at the NADS..

Back on topic.. Dieselcare sent me another set of instructions for fitment to the driver side (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0By6CACqxVW9jMmV4RjQ1elRiczA/view?usp=sharing), which looks doable and is actually the preferred side (for the reasons Mudski mentioned - hot fuel). Dieselcare also said that a lift pump is not required as the OEM pump is strong enough to pull fuel through both filters without issue. I guess time will tell.

Im going to order one of these systems in a couple weeks and see how it goes. Will also look into big fletch's Lift Pump and spill line mod (http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?32708-ZD30-Lift-Pump-Mod&highlight=fuel+manager).

Feels like this is way over my head :eek:
Yer, I'd be finding another person to get advice from. Clearly this person hasn't heard of a Dawes and needle valve. So many mechanics laugh at the NADs because they don't understand it. FWIW. I have personally seen two direct injection motors that had succumb to the grenade dropping its pin.
BOTH, drivers were driving the exact same way, on a freeway at 100k's, BOTH had suffered the same fate. No 3 and 4 pistons destroyed. BOTH had massive heat spots in the cylinder chamber too. Lets see. what creates extremely high cylinder temps? Low boost and too much fuel. Hot exhaust gas entering the intake via the EGR.
I ran my own Patrol on the freeway without the NADs a while back just to see what the EGT's would do. Well at 100k's I would normally get around 16-18psi and around 230c EGTs with the NAD's fitted. No NAD's and I had 6psi and nearly 400c EGT's. Not enough boost to push the air and fuel through.... The reason for the grenade is for another thread. But I do really think this guy hasn't really seen many of these motors. Also is the OXY flow sensor you say refer to the air flow meter in the intake pipe just after the air filter?

I do really think that the amount of information written by many people over the last ten or so years regarding the grenade is more sufficient than him saying its all bollocks. Might aswell say that global warming is rubbish too...

My 2c. Take it with a grain of salt...

But get into the lift pump mod and spill line mod for sure mate. Not too hard to do. I'm half way there.... Looking forward to see results....

cheers.

[skiman]

But get into the lift pump mod and spill line mod for sure mate. Not too hard to do. I'm half way there.... Looking forward to see results....
cheers.

Thanks man. I think ill be picking your brains on that one. I looked under the bonnet this afternoon to have a look for all these fuel hoses and spill lines and couldn't make heads or tails of what was going where! LOL. It certainly didn't look like big fletch's pic from his thread.

Spent the next two hours trying to find the info in the all the Patrol manuals and reference documents i've downloaded but no joy. Would be nice to just see a diagram of what is where in the engine, and what hoses are and where they're going/coming from. Doing my head in.

[Hodge]

My fuel manager is close to the main filter. The brackets, bolts everything came in the kit... Hope this helps. Yes I am a firm believer this filter causes more drag on a already vulnerable and expensive Bosch pump, so a lift pump is on my to do cards 100%. I just haven't got around to doing it.

And yes as Mudski pointed out install it as close to the main filter as possible, and ofcourse avoiding the HOT passenger side due to turbo, manifolds etc...

BTW. Mine copped water within 2 weeks, up in Bright, so it somewhat may have paid it's self off then and there...

PS. The red and white wires all over the fuel manager are not related to it. Just something quickly zippy tied to it.

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=58156&stc=1http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=58157&stc=1http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=58158&stc=1

[Rock Trol]

Hey Hodge, do you have a lift pump? Also are you using the shorter filters? What micron?

When Hi Tech Diesel installed mine they put it over on the other side where the ABS would be if I had it. It was before the OEM filter. I had the longer cartridges at 5 microns and the pump was having trouble sucking fuel through it. You could hear a sucking noise as you accelerated. After 5000 km I took it off and the car went like a scalded cat.

[Hodge]

Hey Hodge, do you have a lift pump? Also are you using the shorter filters? What micron?

When Hi Tech Diesel installed mine they put it over on the other side where the ABS would be if I had it. It was before the OEM filter. I had the longer cartridges at 5 microns and the pump was having trouble sucking fuel through it. You could hear a sucking noise as you accelerated. After 5000 km I took it off and the car went like a scalded cat.

Mine is after the OEM filter. It sits between the main filter and the IP. It is a 2 micron unit. I have not noticed a single bit of performance variance after I fitted it, and I don't have a lift up mod but it is on the to do cards. As I mentioned in my edited post above, i believe it does drag the IP, so a lift mod is a must.

[Rock Trol]

Mine is after the OEM filter. It sits between the main filter and the IP. It is a 2 micron unit. I have not noticed a single bit of performance variance after I fitted it, and I don't have a lift up mod but it is on the to do cards. As I mentioned in my edited post above, i believe it does drag the IP, so a lift mod is a must.

Thanks Hodge. Do you use the short filters?
From your pictures they look shorter than the ones supplied with my unit.

[skiman]

Great input Hodge, thanks heaps mate, that's exactly the info I was after. Have you done the spill line mod?

Rock Trol - When i spoke with Dieselcare this morning, they mentioned there were two variants of the same filter (one shorter and one longer), but both performed the same. I wanted to know sizes to make sure it was going to fit. Both were the same 2 micron size secondary setups. In one of the forum posts I read from 4x4patrol.com, a guy posted a link to this site (http://buyparts.com.au/?subcats=Y&status=A&pshort=Y&pfull=Y&pname=Y&pkeywords=Y&search_performed=Y&q=fuel+manager&dispatch=products.search) which had several of the filters available for cheaper - maybe you could switch out to one of these with a higher flow rate than the one you had fitted?

Personally, Im going to get the kit like Hodge has. Driver side secondary, 2 micron size.

I dont know anything about fluid dynamics, but I would have thought that if the filter allowed sufficient flow rate that exceeded the fuel system requirements, then it should not affect performance, nor make the pump work outside it's design limits. Having said that, with a Lift Pump installed, I can see that some extra pressure down the line would make the injector pump's life easier, and perhaps it's longevity might be increased.

[Rock Trol]

I might try and swap the filters at the place I bought them from as they are still in the sealed packs. If the short ones fit I might have a go at installing it again in the same position Hodge has his. I had an extra 2 metres of fuel hose on mine due to its location (one side of engine bay and back again) which would have caused drag.

[Hodge]

Thanks Hodge. Do you use the short filters?
From your pictures they look shorter than the ones supplied with my unit.

I have no idea mate. I'll be honest and say, don't know what the difference is ? Here is a better picture if it helps.
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=58159&stc=1

[Hodge]

Great input Hodge, thanks heaps mate, that's exactly the info I was after. Have you done the spill line mod?


No dramas mate hope it helps. I have not done the spill line mod, as at this moment I don't even know much about it. But will do some reading on it now, as I will research into this lift pump mod too.

[Rock Trol]

They are the shorter filter. I think I will swap to them.
Did you make the bracket (alloy) yourself or did it come in a kit? Does it use existing bolts on the guard or did you have to drill new ones?

[Hodge]

Everything arrived in the kit, including the bracket, hoses etc... I cannot remember the bolts & nuts... I'll say they were in the pack too, but don't quote me on that.

[skiman]

Here you go Rock Trol - http://www.dieselcare.com.au/filtration-systems

I believe DCS021 is the part number for the secondary patrol kit for driver side that includes all the hardware

[Hodge]

I'll see if I can find my original receipt tomorrow. From memory it listed all parts included with instructions.

[Rock Trol]

Thanks guys. I might give them a call and see if they do the bracket only. I still have the FM.

[mudski]

Skiman. I take it you have a crd?

[skiman]

Skiman. I take it yoh havd a crd?

Yes mate. 2010 3.0L GU (Rocket55's old Wagon)

[Rock Trol]

I went over to Hi tech Diesel today and swapped my two remaining 5 micron filters for shorter 30 micron filters.
I explained to them why I had removed the unit originally and they seemed to think that there may have been another issue with the hoses or filter as they use 5 micron filters all the time and have no power loss. If I get a bracket and refit the unit and there is a problem they suggested I take it over and they will sort it out. 30 micron filters should be more free flowing that the 5's and if I use a shorter length of hose it should also help.

[skiman]

o.0

30 micron? Doesn't that defeat the purpose for these filters mate? I wouldnt be settling for less than 5 personally. Micron size aside, check the flow rates of the filter too; Makes no difference if its 100 micron if its still got a terrible flow rate if you know what I mean.

Glad you have some traction with a possible fix though. Let us know how it goes.

[Rock Trol]

o.0

30 micron? Doesn't that defeat the purpose for these filters mate? I wouldnt be settling for less than 5 personally. Micron size aside, check the flow rates of the filter too; Makes no difference if its 100 micron if its still got a terrible flow rate if you know what I mean.

Glad you have some traction with a possible fix though. Let us know how it goes.

Flow rate for both filters is 300 lpm so its quite high. The 30 micron will separate water and catch any large crap before it hits the OEM filter. I am not sure what the OEM filter is. It would be either 2 or 5 micron so it should do the job. A lot of the advertising (scaremongering) on the filter manufacturers sites is there just to sell their product.
Keep in mind that lots of CRD Patrols have been travelling in the outback with zero problems. Members from our club have done the Cape, west Australia, central deserts etc and no one has had a problem with fuel yet. Partly good luck. Partly buying at name brand servos etc.

I do know that if I had left the 5 micron filter on it would have killed the pump. It was starving of fuel (sluggish performance) and I think air was getting into the system somehow which in hindsight may have been the real issue. If I get it working with the 30 micron filter and a new bracket I might try going a finer filter again. I think an extra water trap/filter is like insurance just in case you are unlucky, but only if its installation has no negative affect on the vehicle.

Also, the guy at Hi Tech didn't think that a lift pump is necessary. He did say though that some cars had problems running extra filtration and that it could be a sign that there is a problem with the pump.