Wood heater burning too fast?

[Winnie]

The cold weather is here and it's time to use our wood heater. Now Amy and I have both grown up in houses that run wood heaters 24/7 during the colder months so that is what we do too.
Or we would if our wood heater would allow it. It is a Heat Charm IV (if that makes a difference) but with the air vents closed off it still burns way too hot. It completely burned out overnight with not much warmth left in the morning.
I actually took the face off it yesterday and brushed a heap of ash out of the air vents and the fan too. The rope on the door is in good condition too. Today is a cold day but we are roasting inside, we have got the doors open to let some cool air in.

So it burns too hot even when closed down and burns out completely overnight. It burns so hot that there is no visible smoke coming out the flu.
I am hoping it's not one of these new heaters that you can't properly close down due to emissions...

[Stropp]

Winnie check the baffle plate at the top inside the firebox doesn't have a hole in it, also grab the glass on both sides and try to move it as the seal there may be had it too, if not either of them then check how to get to the air slide and see if it has holes drilled in it when the damper is shut off, if yes you know what to do 😀 if no holes then the hole for the slide may need to lengthened to close the air holes off. Put up a pic or pm me one see if I can help out!

[BigRAWesty]

How old is the heater?
A few years ago emissions controls came into affect for wood heaters. Lovely stuff..

Anyway the way most companies got around it was to simply not allow the user to close the heater down as far. This burning hotter and less emissions.
A few spend the money on r&d and changed the fire box.

So first thing I'd check are the air vents. When full shut are the actually shut or still a 5-6mm gap??

[Winnie]

Winnie check the baffle plate at the top inside the firebox doesn't have a hole in it, also grab the glass on both sides and try to move it as the seal there may be had it too, if not either of them then check how to get to the air slide and see if it has holes drilled in it when the damper is shut off, if yes you know what to do if no holes then the hole for the slide may need to lengthened to close the air holes off. Put up a pic or pm me one see if I can help out!

Thanks Stroppy! The baffle plate is a bit rooted ... I forgot to mention that. I took it out yesterday and tried to repair it but no go... It does have a hole but not all the way through. The bottom of it must have got bloody hot at some stage and has drooped down but the top of it is still flat.
It is a hollow bit of rectangle steel. Maybe somebody has replaced the original with this?
Can you buy new baffle plates? If not I could get a mate to repair it for me.

Glass is all good, checked that when I cleaned it yesterday too.

By air slide, do you mean where you control the air inlet? It is a flap that lifts up and down, it does not completely seal up, the edge of the flap is bent up a little bit to let a small amount of air in, but definitely not enough to make it burn like it is!

[Winnie]

How old is the heater?
A few years ago emissions controls came into affect for wood heaters. Lovely stuff..

Anyway the way most companies got around it was to simply not allow the user to close the heater down as far. This burning hotter and less emissions.
A few spend the money on r&d and changed the fire box.

So first thing I'd check are the air vents. When full shut are the actually shut or still a 5-6mm gap??

No idea how old it is! It is a Heat Charm IV

57369



57368

Yeah it shuts properly. Do they have a 2nd intake that is not controllable?

[Winnie]

..........

57370

[taslucas]

Oh the old Heat Charm mk 4!!!

[threedogs]

Used to replace the fire boxes on burners with 320 stainless.
Maybe make a baffle plate from that

[Stropp]

Ok it only takes a little more air to burn faster, bash the air flap down a bit flatter and see how it goes, the baffle plates can be purchased new through Scandia in Victoria. No secondary intake only through that flap, the flatter that is the less air is allowed in.

[Winnie]

Ok it only takes a little more air to burn faster, bash the air flap down a bit flatter and see how it goes, the baffle plates can be purchased new through Scandia in Victoria. No secondary intake only through that flap, the flatter that is the less air is allowed in.

Thanks Stropp, do you think the baffle would make that much difference?
I might get my mate to weld it shut and I'll see how I can go bashing the flap more closed.
Thanks for your advice mate

[Cuppa]

I doubt you’ll have much luck with getting the air flap to close any better. We had a Heatcharm fire much the same at Callignee South, complete with seriously drooping baffle plate. I replaced the cast baffle plate with some thick steel plate & it made no difference to how long it would burn overnight. The airflap across the front was never ‘air tight’, & I reckon bashing it could potentially result in distorting it inadvertently increasing the air gap & making things worse. Closing it made a noticeable difference but getting the fire to burn right through the night was never easy.

I think the main problems are basically the firebox isn’t big enough & the airflap is a cr*p design.

The 2 things we did which helped were 1. Keep the best pieces of wood (the really good dry, dense & knotty stuff) for overnight burns & ensure that we had good firewood species to start with - we used a lot of Blackwood because we had access to a good supply of dead but standing Blackwoods killed by radiant heat in the Black Saturday fires), & build up the fire over a bed of hot coals, filling the firebox just before bed. 2. Go to bed late & get up early!

I wouldn’t buy another fire like that, I reckon it was a poor design. Apart from needing a larger firebox, drawing the cool air in at the bottom & blowing the hot out at the top resulted in a cool draughty layer of air at foot level, or if sitting/laying on the floor. It was also good at sucking hot embers in through the bottom grill. Air flaps which slide seem to work better than the hinged type our Heatcharm had across the front (just below the door).

That said, it was in the house when we bought it, & we put up with it for 18+ years, but we did also have a Rayburn stove in the kitchen, which despite having a smaller firebox (designed for coal) would burn overnight with good wood. Basically the Rayburn got lit at the beginning of winter & stayed lit until the weather warmed up again, the lounge room heat charm was lit each evening.

[BigRAWesty]

Well the baffle keeps the heat in the fire place. If it's compromised heat just goes out the chimney.

So again unsure of yours but mine is a peice of 6mm plate that covers 2/3 the roof, full width..
Has a folded up lip at the front and down at the back.. And sits on 4 pins about 50mm from lid, hard against the back wall.

[Cuppa]

Just another thought ...... only applicable if you are in a rented place.
Before we bought our place in Callignee South we lived in a rented place in Callignee for a few years. It had an old slow combustion built in wood fire. Over the years rain coming down the chimney had rusted out the top of the stove. Not huge holes, but enough to ensure poor operation. We couldn’t see the damage, only knew that the fire didn’t work as it should. When the landlord sent someone to fix it, they realised it was past it, & the landlord paid for a new fire to be installed. Old & new were like chalk & cheese.

[Winnie]

Well the baffle keeps the heat in the fire place. If it's compromised heat just goes out the chimney.

So again unsure of yours but mine is a peice of 6mm plate that covers 2/3 the roof, full width..
Has a folded up lip at the front and down at the back.. And sits on 4 pins about 50mm from lid, hard against the back wall.

Not worried about keeping heat in mate, we have heaps of heat! It burns out too fast!

[threedogs]

So you think its drawing extra air from some where some how, and causing the fire to burn down to ash not coals.
Stropp is your man this is what he does.

[Winnie]

I doubt you'll have much luck with getting the air flap to close any better. We had a Heatcharm fire much the same at Callignee South, complete with seriously drooping baffle plate. I replaced the cast baffle plate with some thick steel plate & it made no difference to how long it would burn overnight. The airflap across the front was never 'air tight', & I reckon bashing it could potentially result in distorting it inadvertently increasing the air gap & making things worse. Closing it made a noticeable difference but getting the fire to burn right through the night was never easy.

I think the main problems are basically the firebox isn't big enough & the airflap is a cr*p design.

The 2 things we did which helped were 1. Keep the best pieces of wood (the really good dry, dense & knotty stuff) for overnight burns & ensure that we had good firewood species to start with - we used a lot of Blackwood because we had access to a good supply of dead but standing Blackwoods killed by radiant heat in the Black Saturday fires), & build up the fire over a bed of hot coals, filling the firebox just before bed. 2. Go to bed late & get up early!

I wouldn't buy another fire like that, I reckon it was a poor design. Apart from needing a larger firebox, drawing the cool air in at the bottom & blowing the hot out at the top resulted in a cool draughty layer of air at foot level, or if sitting/laying on the floor. It was also good at sucking hot embers in through the bottom grill. Air flaps which slide seem to work better than the hinged type our Heatcharm had across the front (just below the door).

That said, it was in the house when we bought it, & we put up with it for 18+ years, but we did also have a Rayburn stove in the kitchen, which despite having a smaller firebox (designed for coal) would burn overnight with good wood. Basically the Rayburn got lit at the beginning of winter & stayed lit until the weather warmed up again, the lounge room heat charm was lit each evening.

Hmm, I think the fire box is plenty big enough. Our one up the road was much smaller but we never had a problem with it burning out overnight. In fact we were able to completely starve it of oxygen and make the fire go out while still full of wood. It had the same airflap design but it was above the fire not underneath like this one.
Bummer, so you never really had a fix, just tried to work around it.
We are in a rented property though so could possibly call the estate and ask for it to be serviced

[Winnie]

So you think its drawing extra air fromwhere some how, and causing the fire to burn down to ash not coals.
Stropp is your man this is what he does.

Yeah that's what I thought originally. I know this is what he does so when he said it doesn't have another intake it has me wondering about the air flap now. I'll have another look at it, but not today. It might be a bit hot =)

[Cuppa]

And another thing, not only do you have a virtually identical fire to the one we had, looks like you’ve stolen our firewood box too! :)

[Winnie]

And another thing, not only do you have a virtually identical fire to the one we had, looks like you've stolen our firewood box too! :)

Its a good box isn't it =)
At least it performs better than the fire heater! Lmao

[threedogs]

stolen is such a strong word found sounds better, If its really old and been stacked
with logs over its life,, chances are I think it may have a hole in
the fire box creating all this "extra" air,
The steel crystalizes and becomes all brittle, and just crumbles.
Show the landlord,, sounds better to get a new one in before it gets really cold

[Stropp]

Thanks Stropp, do you think the baffle would make that much difference?
I might get my mate to weld it shut and I'll see how I can go bashing the flap more closed.
Thanks for your advice mate

If the baffle plate is ok a new one won't make any difference, it's getting too much air from somewhere and I would say it's the inlet flap. If you get your mate to make anything get him to make a new flap with less of a bend on it, you will need some small bend to allow a little air into it to burn properly.

[Alitis007]

If the baffle plate is ok a new one won't make any difference, it's getting too much air from somewhere and I would say it's the inlet flap. If you get your mate to make anything get him to make a new flap with less of a bend on it, you will need some small bend to allow a little air into it to burn properly.

To eliminate it drawing extra air from a hole somewhere would you try and close off the inlet flap completely ??

[BigRAWesty]

Is the door seal in good condition??

[Stropp]

To eliminate it drawing extra air from a hole somewhere would you try and close off the inlet flap completely ??. That's why I told him to flatten the plate a bit to slow it down.



Is the door seal in good condition??

Kallen the original post says yes it is along with the door rope, I would get a new baffle plate and try to flatten the intake air plate.

[Clunk]

Is the door seal in goid condition? Maybe the baffle plate needs replacing or flattening out the air intake out a wee bit

[AB]

Burning cardboard won't last that long ;)

[Alitis007]

. That's why I told him to flatten the plate a bit to slow it down.



Is the door seal in good condition??

Kallen the original post says yes it is along with the door rope, I would get a new baffle plate and try to flatten the intake air plate.

Will flue length and flue hat(or whatever its called ) design affect its performance?? Just thinking would it some how work like an extractor drawing out the smoke and drawing in the air even when the inlet vent is shut thru the smallest holes, like when you blow across the top of a straw and the drink is drawn up coz you creat a vacuum

[Winnie]

Burning cardboard won't last that long ;)

This is good quality Blackwood that we cut last year! I had about 2 wheel barrows left from last year but even the stuff we got this weekend is bloody good wood. Maybe I'll try some of this wood we just got, it's a bit wetter so may burn longer?

[Winnie]

. That's why I told him to flatten the plate a bit to slow it down.

Is the door seal in good condition??

Kallen the original post says yes it is along with the door rope, I would get a new baffle plate and try to flatten the intake air plate.

Thanks Stropp, I'll definitely try straighten out the air plate first up and will go from there.

[mudnut]

Had the same problem because the corkhead plumber who fitted the flue pipe didn't seat it properly before he fastened it in place. After I fixed it and put a layer of glass tape on the pipe before seating it, a blackwood log will burn for 10 -11 hours.

[threedogs]

My Coonara when it was in my mates garage would burn 1 decent piece of red gum in about 8 hrs.
Now its at my place sort of outside it chews the wood a bit, but thats cause my son over loads it. lol
When he burns it out I'll weld in a new fire box,maybe, pot belly was useless

[Winnie]

Well it has managed to stay alight last night and again today while at work. I will let it go out tonight so I can check it out because I want it fixed before the really cold weather comes along

[krbrooking]

Well it has managed to stay alight last night and again today while at work. I will let it go out tonight so I can check it out because I want it fixed before the really cold weather comes along

Hen you will wanting to bend it back to make the house hotter.

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[Winnie]

Hen you will wanting to bend it back to make the house hotter.

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No mate ill just open it up =)

[Winnie]

I reckon the door rope is not in as good condition as it looked. I can put a piece of paper in, shut the door and move it all around.
Is it worth changing it myself or should I just call the real estate and get them to sort it?

[BigRAWesty]

I reckon the door rope is not in as good condition as it looked. I can put a piece of paper in, shut the door and move it all around. Is it worth changing it myself or should I just call the real estate and get them to sort it?

Yep, shot. Not your problem, call the agent and tell them it needs it asap as it's costing you more money than it should.

[Maxhead]

Just change it yourself Chrisso, no need to hassle them for a few bucks, leave that for something more serious

.....on the move

[BigRAWesty]

Just change it yourself Chrisso, no need to hassle them for a few bucks, leave that for something more serious .....on the move

Yea that's a good point. Really. If you feel like it just let them know you'll be doing it and then go nuts.

[Cuppa]

I’d reckon you might have sussed it Winnie. I used to wrap silver foil around the join in the rope.

[Stropp]

Winnie you are onto it, take a piece of the rope to a shop and get the right length and as cuppa says heavy silver foil on the join if you can or just glue the ends together

[taslucas]

Winnie you are onto it, take a piece of the rope to a shop and get the right length and as cuppa says heavy silver foil on the join if you can or just glue the ends together

Its easy to work out the amount of rope. Just double half the length

[Maxhead]

Its easy to work out the amount of rope. Just double half the length

You idiot!!, but right again:)

[Winnie]

I took the door to the shop and he showed me that also the window seal was stuffed, and there was a bit missing from the door that he is going to have to weld on.
Real estate job!

[Stropp]

I took the door to the shop and he showed me that also the window seal was stuffed, and there was a bit missing from the door that he is going to have to weld on.
Real estate job!


i did ask about the glass tape :)

[Winnie]

No you asked if the glass moved, which it didn't! lmao
Wanna come fix it? This guy is gonna take a few days, coming into the busy season now though and we have had some bloody cold days already so can't complain too much.
I should have got this done last year!

[Stropp]

No you asked if the glass moved, which it didn't! lmao
Wanna come fix it? This guy is gonna take a few days, coming into the busy season now though and we have had some bloody cold days already so can't complain too much.
I should have got this done last year!

usually the glass tape will allow the glass to move a little when you put a hand on either side and try to move it, but as long as its getting sorted out thats the main thing.

[Winnie]

usually the glass tape will allow the glass to move a little when you put a hand on either side and try to move it, but as long as its getting sorted out thats the main thing.

He may be full of crap and the tape is fine, but I don't care really... hahaha
Yep, can't wait to get it home now, the last couple of days have been freezing inside!

[NissanGQ4.2]

Mine burns overnight with wet green fire wood :)

57495

Currently 26.4deg in the house, had to open a door and drink an icy cold beer to cool down :)

[Stropp]

57496

my fire at work :)

[threedogs]

No you asked if the glass moved, which it didn't! lmao
Wanna come fix it? This guy is gonna take a few days, coming into the busy season now though and we have had some bloody cold days already so can't complain too much.
I should have got this done last year!

every one take note of the date please, no heater a few cosy nights coming up IMO
the math is simple lol

[NissanGQ4.2]

my fire at work :)

Can I get a job with you??? :)

Looks like its burning awfully fast though

[threedogs]

Can I get a job with you??? :)

Looks like its burning awfully fast though

Well picked up , thats a fast fire for sure ,if ever Ive seen one

[Winnie]

Can I get a job with you??? :)

Looks like its burning awfully fast though
He has a heating shop, it has to look good!! Looks awesome!


every one take note of the date please, no heater a few cosy nights coming up IMO
the math is simple lol

Oi that's enough out of you!!

[Stropp]

every one take note of the date please, no heater a few cosy nights coming up IMO
the math is simple lol

ha ha John, baby winnies lol

[Stropp]

Can I get a job with you??? :)

Looks like its burning awfully fast though

yes mate, unfortunately they dont turn down much at all but they look great at 1430 wide :)

[Cuppa]

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=57496&stc=1

my fire at work :)

Great looking fire - how much? Could you cook on top of it?

[NissanGQ4.2]

yes mate, unfortunately they dont turn down much at all but they look great at 1430 wide :)

Do you have a deal with the local fire wood company *L*

Looks pretty awesome but who would want 2 buy a fireplace that burns through the wood, give me my slow combustion anyday

[threedogs]

truck brake drums work very well as a potbelly, no good for inside though

[Stropp]

Great looking fire - how much? Could you cook on top of it?

hi cuppa, they vary in size and price from 6k to 11k :rolleyes: and yes you can but its not cast iron so would scratch the paint.

[Stropp]

Do you have a deal with the local fire wood company *L*

Looks pretty awesome but who would want 2 buy a fireplace that burns through the wood, give me my slow combustion anyday

mate they are all the same now unless you know how to "fix" them :cool:

[Winnie]

Damn, another cold night for me =[

[NissanGQ4.2]

mate they are all the same now unless you know how to "fix" them :cool:

Any reason for that? I would of assumed slow combustion would of been better

[NissanGQ4.2]

Damn, another cold night for me =[

28.8deg here :)

[Stropp]

Any reason for that? I would of assumed slow combustion would of been better

the good old greenies mate :(

[Winnie]

Any reason for that? I would of assumed slow combustion would of been better

When you are burning slow you produce heaps of smoke, and smoke is baaaaaad maaaaan

[Stropp]

When you are burning slow you produce heaps of smoke, and smoke is baaaaaad maaaaan

according to some, but what do they use to scrub polluted air from factories? charcoal, what is smoke ? charcoal so smoke floating around is sucking up all the bad shit in the air ?? sounds good to me.

[Cuppa]

mate they are all the same now unless you know how to "fix" them :cool:


Send me a pm if you feel you can ’spill the beans’. I’ll be needing to buy a fire for our ‘dwelling’ in the new shed . Would like one with an oven, but they are all out of my price range except the Nectre Baker’s Oven which I’ve read struggles to burn overnight. The Eureka Nugget looks like a possibility. Then again we may end up buying second hand.

[Maxhead]

Damn, another cold night for me =[

Just burn without the door, she'll be right

[Winnie]

Haha, my 17 yo brother was here before and asks wtf is going on with our fire place... I said I took the door off because I prefer an open fire... he goes "oh yeah cool"
spastic!

[krbrooking]

Lol. That's not very nice of you. I thought you were a nice guy.

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[threedogs]

28.8deg here :)

sounds about right my mate could get his garage up to 30c no problems at all
with his Corarra,,,,,,,,,,,he he now its mine lol

[Stropp]

sounds about right my mate could get his garage up to 30c no problems at all
with his Corarra,,,,,,,,,,,he he now its mine lol

coonara??...................

[threedogs]

coonara??...................

Generic term for any style wood heater, mine is a Kent

[TPC]

Generic term for any style wood heater, mine is a Kent

I think you might be confused, Coonara is a brand, had one at my previous house.

[taslucas]

Yeah coonara is a brand. Like saying "I'm going to make a breville " (toasted sandwich) or "I hoovered this place this morning " (vacuumed)

[TPC]

I guess I say Esky no matter what brand cooler I am using.

[threedogs]

we dont call it a Jandle do we lol
Any way its a Kent "wood heater"

[Alitis007]

"I hoovered a guy this morning "

We don't want to know your sexual preference mate

[Stropp]

we dont call it a Jandle do we lol
Any way its a Kent "wood heater"

it looks like a kent country classic :) or an old tile fire with the tiles missing

[NissanGQ4.2]

When you are burning slow you produce heaps of smoke, and smoke is baaaaaad maaaaan

Only smoke that is bad is smoke that is coming from a bushfire near my house.

[NissanGQ4.2]

the good old greenies mate :(

yeh maybe, more like the EPA they have the power, I don't think the greenies have that much power.

There was talk once upon a time about banning fire places. That would be a sad day, I love my wood heater, kicks arse over my gas heater

[Winnie]

Just got the door back and I can actually feel the door seal, lol. The bloke said somebody had butchered it, wrong size seals and a plate that holds the glass in was missing so that wasn't sealed either.

[Sir Roofy]

Just got the door back and I can actually feel the door seal, lol. The bloke said somebody had butchered it, wrong size seals and a plate that holds the glass in was missing so that wasn't sealed either.

excellent mate but you wont need it tonight

[Sir Roofy]

yeh maybe, more like the EPA they have the power, I don't think the greenies have that much power.

There was talk once upon a time about banning fire places. That would be a sad day, I love my wood heater, kicks arse over my gas heater

epa cant ban heaters look at all the smoke that drifts about for days when parks burn off with there fire reduction burns
as you said cant beat a good wood fire

[Winnie]

excellent mate but you wont need it tonight

Gotta get a good bed of coals in there for the weekend =)

[NissanGQ4.2]

epa cant ban heaters look at all the smoke that drifts about for days when parks burn off with there fire reduction burns
as you said cant beat a good wood fire

They will try....... the RFS here had controlled burns put in place well before the last city to surf in Sydney and it only took one phone call saying they didn't want smoke drifting around when the event was on and all controlled bans got cancelled :(

[Stropp]

The greens are pushing the eps for less smoke they have the power believe me.



yeh maybe, more like the EPA they have the power, I don't think the greenies have that much power.

There was talk once upon a time about banning fire places. That would be a sad day, I love my wood heater, kicks arse over my gas heater

[Avo]

They will try....... the RFS here had controlled burns put in place well before the last city to surf in Sydney and it only took one phone call saying they didn't want smoke drifting around when the event was on and all controlled bans got cancelled :(

that's what happened over here,to many grapes get tainted with smoke,so less burn offs and government cuts to funding for prescribed burns.....But I tell you what,after the shit we went through in Feb,there burning off everywhere like crazy down here now..luckily no lives where lost down here but it was close to wiping out several towns

[Cuppa]

I drove past a few paddocks where they had burned the stubble last weekend. I thought that had been a banned practice for years but this was on diffeent farms, all in the same district though. Used to love helping my grandad with the stubble (wheat) burning when I was a little tacker.