Possible clutch damage after towing

[dom14]

Hi Guys,
Mine is a RB30 manual Patrol on carby.
The other day, I had to move my small caravan from one spot to the other.
Van is a 11 foot fairly lightweight one. I only added about extra 20 to 30kg recently by doing some floor repair.
When I was towing forward, it went ok
But, when I was backing up to the driveway, I started smelling a "funny" smell coming from the engine bay.
It's similar to the burning clutch smell, but may be slightly different.(burning clutch+brake oil ?!)
Smell was still there in the engine bay even a day after.
As you guys might know, clutch pedal is hydraulic.
I've never had to do anything with the clutch for about five years now.
I'm wondering whether I've done some clutch damage.
The reason for that is that I'm feeling the clutch differently now.
When backing up, vehicle tend to shake more as it's from a rough clutch.
Going forward isn't that bad, but it tend to do the same thing occasionally, but less aggressive.

1)Have I done some clutch damage?
2)How do I find out if the clutch's on it's way?
3)What tests can I do to confirm the clutch is up to scratch with towing the van

BTW, when I was backing up the van, it wasn't a steep climb. It was fairly flat ground, except I had to go over four or five inches of
the curb to push the van into the driveway. I did the backing up on two wheels. I didn't think 4WD was necessary at that time.

Thanks for any help guys.

[Stropp]

i would say yes the clutch is damaged, back up to something solid and let the clutch out slowly without too many revs and if it stalls or bogs down the clutch is ok if not shes had it.

[dom14]

i would say yes the clutch is damaged, back up to something solid and let the clutch out slowly without too many revs and if it stalls or bogs down the clutch is ok if not shes had it.

Hi mate, If I understood you correctly, you want me to park back(or front) of the car against a tree or a wall or something and then let it go and see whether it stalls.
Am I right?

[threedogs]

were you riding the clutch that much,
I used to put it Low low in my other 4x4 to park my camper more control I felt
Lucky I have an auto now so dont worry about it

[Winnie]

I used to put it Low low in my other 4x4 to park my camper more control I felt

Yeah that's what I do too, I'm not the best reverser with a trailer so makes it easier for me haha

[threedogs]

Im getting better, all you do is follow the trailer easy eh lol

[threedogs]

Hi mate, If I understood you correctly, you want me to park back(or front) of the car against a tree or a wall or something and then let it go and see whether it stalls.
Am I right?

take it for a drive find a hill and give it some berries listen to the revs if the clutch is fubar the revs will spin up

[dom14]

take it for a drive find a hill and give it some berries listen to the revs if the clutch is fubar the revs will spin up

Ok, cool. I'll do that, perhaps with the loaded trailer or van attached to it as well.

[dom14]

Yeah that's what I do too, I'm not the best reverser with a trailer so makes it easier for me haha

I find the heavier the trailer/caravan, more control I have with reversing. I find it bit a of PITA to reverse the lightweight trailer without any weight on it.
When the trailer is heavy, it seems to be doing what I'm asking it to do. When the trailer is lightweight, I had to yell at it. :)

[dom14]

What on earth was that funny smell?!!! I swear, it wasn't the standard clutch plate grinding/burning smell.
I need to get to the bottom of it. There was something else in the smell. Perhaps a hydraulic oil(brake oil?) leak?!

[Punderhead]

I find the heavier the trailer/caravan, more control I have with reversing. I find it bit a of PITA to reverse the lightweight trailer without any weight on it. When the trailer is heavy, it seems to be doing what I'm asking it to do. When the trailer is lightweight, I had to yell at it. :)

The longer the distance from the drawbar to the wheels, the easier it is to reverse, as it is slightly less sensitive. The weight shouldn't make a difference, although a load in a box trailer makes it easier to see.

[dom14]

were you riding the clutch that much,
I used to put it Low low in my other 4x4 to park my camper more control I felt
Lucky I have an auto now so dont worry about it

RB30 hasn't got that much power, so I had to give a bit of revs to get it going over the curb(both the 4Wd and the van).
I reckon with the high revs of the RB30, standard clutch tend to wear out quicker.
I think it lasted this long without any major dramas 'cos of my gentle kind of driving. :)
But, I wasn't that gentle to get the van into the middle of the driveway at pitch dark night.
What I should've done was to put on 4Wd. I didn't 'cos steering is bit rough on 4Wd.
At least I get to know the clutch better now. They obviously don't last forever. :)

[threedogs]

You only put it in low ratio,, you dont lock in the hubs etc.,,,but whats done is done eh
Does it drive OK on the road

[Stropp]

Hi mate, If I understood you correctly, you want me to park back(or front) of the car against a tree or a wall or something and then let it go and see whether it stalls.
Am I right?

correct mate easy way to see if the the clutch is fubar :)

[Stropp]

the smell my be the the rear main seal has gone and leaked a bit of oil onto the clutch and thats why it slipped ??

[dom14]

the smell my be the the rear main seal has gone and leaked a bit of oil onto the clutch and thats why it slipped ??

Thanks for the tip mate. I'll have a good look under the car to see whether I can see any oil drips. Oil level was ok when I checked while ago, I'll check it again. I rarely check clutch oil, 'cos it never dropped. It may not be the case now.

[dom14]

You only put it in low ratio,, you dont lock in the hubs etc.,,,but whats done is done eh
Does it drive OK on the road

Yes, it drives ok on the road without clutch slipping(not heavy trailer or caravan). Even with the van it would go ok when moving forward.
Reversing tend to aggravate the clutch or something and gives out that strange smell, which isn't exactly the clutch burning smell(I"m used to the clutch burning smell)

Sorry mate, I didn't understand that first bit. It's manual locking hub. I can't engage the front wheel drive without moving the hub lock knob to lock position(in the middle of the front wheels), or can I?
Without engaging the hub lock, the front CVs would just spin themselves without spinning wheels, won't they? Correct me if I'm wrong.
It also says in the 4WD engage guide(sticker on the sun visor) that I need to lock the hubs first before switching to 4WD. I've been told not doing so can damage the hub or CVs or something like that. I'm not sure if that's correct.

[Rock Trol]

Yes, it drives ok on the road without clutch slipping(not heavy trailer or caravan). Even with the van it would go ok when moving forward.
Reversing tend to aggravate the clutch or something and gives out that strange smell, which isn't exactly the clutch burning smell(I"m used to the clutch burning smell)

Sorry mate, I didn't understand that first bit. It's manual locking hub. I can't engage the front wheel drive without moving the hub lock knob to lock position(in the middle of the front wheels), or can I?
Without engaging the hub lock, the front CVs would just spin themselves without spinning wheels, won't they? Correct me if I'm wrong.
It also says in the 4WD engage guide(sticker on the sun visor) that I need to lock the hubs first before switching to 4WD. I've been told not doing so can damage the hub or CVs or something like that. I'm not sure if that's correct.

Hi dom14, I don't think reversing in low range with the hubs unlocked will damage anything. I do it all the time! I doubt there will be any uncontrolled spinning of front diff as the transfer case splits power 50:50 on both ends so if rears aren't spinning it will be constant power to the front. You also won't be revving the guts out of it either.

Do you know what type of flywheel your Patrol has? The symptoms you described sound like a dual mass flywheel that's leaking oil from the buffers onto the clutch. Happened to a friend a few years ago (GU 3.0 litre). No drive and burnt smell yet the engine was fine. If no DMF then maybe the rear oil seal as suggested previously.

[Bigcol]

You only put it in low ratio,, you dont lock in the hubs etc.,,,but whats done is done eh
Does it drive OK on the road



Sorry mate, I didn't understand that first bit. It's manual locking hub. I can't engage the front wheel drive without moving the hub lock knob to lock position(in the middle of the front wheels), or can I?
Without engaging the hub lock, the front CVs would just spin themselves without spinning wheels, won't they? Correct me if I'm wrong.
It also says in the 4WD engage guide(sticker on the sun visor) that I need to lock the hubs first before switching to 4WD. I've been told not doing so can damage the hub or CVs or something like that. I'm not sure if that's correct.

you can engage the transfer lever in the cab, from 2 wheel drive to low range
just DONT touch the hubs - leave them free wheeling

your wanting to use the low torque and gearing of the transfer case to assist you in reversing it up your driveway

NEVER NEVER NEVER lock your hubs in & engage 4wd while on Bitumen / pavers / slabs / any hard surface


guaranteed to spit the teeth out of your transfer case if you do.......... (speaking from experience)

[dom14]

you can engage the transfer lever in the cab, from 2 wheel drive to low range
just DONT touch the hubs - leave them free wheeling

your wanting to use the low torque and gearing of the transfer case to assist you in reversing it up your driveway

NEVER NEVER NEVER lock your hubs in & engage 4wd while on Bitumen / pavers / slabs / any hard surface


guaranteed to spit the teeth out of your transfer case if you do.......... (speaking from experience)

Crxp! I'v done it in the past, just to test the 4WD and I've even done 40km/h on bitumen like that.
Ok, it's obvious I have a fair bit to learn about 4WD'ing with GQ Patrols.

[Winnie]

Crxp! I'v done it in the past, just to test the 4WD and I've even done 40km/h on bitumen like that.
Ok, it's obvious I have a fair bit to learn about 4WD'ing with GQ Patrols.

Small amount is fine but don't make it a habit. Don't stress mate.

[Rock Trol]

Crxp! I'v done it in the past, just to test the 4WD and I've even done 40km/h on bitumen like that.
Ok, it's obvious I have a fair bit to learn about 4WD'ing with GQ Patrols.

Locked hubs and in 4WD? For how far? They don't just break instantly. Normally the gearbox locks up after a while and you can't change gears. A mate who works for the RAA told me they get a lot of service calls from people who hire 4WD's (Troopies) as they drive them out in 4WD and come to a grinding halt somewhere down the road. The service guys just jack a wheel up and it releases the tension. If you are driving on the road and this happens just get a wheel on the dirt (or median strip) and pressure will be released.

[dom14]

Hi dom14, I don't think reversing in low range with the hubs unlocked will damage anything. I do it all the time! I doubt there will be any uncontrolled spinning of front diff as the transfer case splits power 50:50 on both ends so if rears aren't spinning it will be constant power to the front. You also won't be revving the guts out of it either.

Do you know what type of flywheel your Patrol has? The symptoms you described sound like a dual mass flywheel that's leaking oil from the buffers onto the clutch. Happened to a friend a few years ago (GU 3.0 litre). No drive and burnt smell yet the engine was fine. If no DMF then maybe the rear oil seal as suggested previously.

Hi mate, I can't say for sure whether it's DMF in it. I reckon it isn't 'cos I heard somewhere a while ago that GQs didn't come with DMFs, but GUs.
I don't know whether it's true or not.
I think I'm about to find out.

I always thought I have no business touching the 4WD(low or high) without engaging the hub locks.
Well, it sounds like I need good crash course in 4Wd'ing. :D

Here I'm attaching the photos of the 4WD gear lever and the sun visor 4WD instructions.
It says not to engage the 4WD H or L without locking the hubs, yet I've been advised I can do it safely.

I may be confused here. Help me guys!.

[Winnie]

You don't have to have the hubs locked, but you won't have the front wheels turning under power unless the hubs are locked.

[dom14]

Locked hubs and in 4WD? For how far? They don't just break instantly. Normally the gearbox locks up after a while and you can't change gears. A mate who works for the RAA told me they get a lot of service calls from people who hire 4WD's (Troopies) as they drive them out in 4WD and come to a grinding halt somewhere down the road. The service guys just jack a wheel up and it releases the tension. If you are driving on the road and this happens just get a wheel on the dirt (or median strip) and pressure will be released.

Ok, cool. Thanx mate. I didn't make a habit of it. I reckon I've done it couple of times in the past. It went smooth, except when taking turns, obviously 'cos there's no diff between transfer box & gearbox to match the wheel spinning speeds.
BTW, when we use diff locks to get out of a bogged situation, aren't we stressing the diff and gearbox?
Does that mean the diff lock should only be used as a last resort?

[dom14]

You don't have to have the hubs locked, but you won't have the front wheels turning under power unless the hubs are locked.

Ok, cool. Obviously I learnt something valuable here. I can use 4L without locking the hubs to reduce the stress on the clutch and gearbox.
I think I'm also beginning to understand the purpose of the transfer box as well.

[Winnie]

Ok, cool. Thanx mate. I didn't make a habit of it. I reckon I've done it couple of times in the past. It went smooth, except when taking turns, obviously 'cos there's no diff between transfer box & gearbox to match the wheel spinning speeds.
BTW, when we use diff locks to get out of a bogged situation, aren't we stressing the diff and gearbox?
Does that mean the diff lock should only be used as a last resort?

Not really, when you are on dirt tracks or gravel roads, it's easier for the wheels to spin at different speeds, so if turning with diff locks on, the inside wheel can lose traction pretty easy, which is a good thing.

[Rock Trol]

Air/vacuum/electric Diff locks - If the ground is slippery or soft then there is no problem. If the ground is harder (dry outback road) then don't have it on. You only put them on when you see an obstacle or trouble ahead.

Auto lockers - when the pressure builds up they unlock (one side) to release the pressure.

[dom14]

Air/vacuum/electric Diff locks - If the ground is slippery or soft then there is no problem. If the ground is harder (dry outback road) then don't have it on. You only put them on when you see an obstacle or trouble ahead.

Auto lockers - when the pressure builds up they unlock (one side) to release the pressure.

Cool mate. I was thinking about modifying the diff to get diff lock effect for back wheels(manual switch), as I'm planning to head off
for a long trip, solo.Bang Head

I have no idea how to install an auto locker for a GQ. I'm guessing it's a professional job and probably an expensive job as well.

[Winnie]

I would not bother for that trip, the factory Nissan LSD is the next best thing to being locked.

[Bigcol]

Ok, cool. Obviously I learnt something valuable here. I can use 4L without locking the hubs to reduce the stress on the clutch and gearbox.
I think I'm also beginning to understand the purpose of the transfer box as well.


you can drive on the road with your hubs locked - but NOT 4wd engaged - uses more fuel, and gives a heavy steering, but no damage will be done
you can drive on the road with your transfer case engaged (4H or 4L) - but NOT with hubs engaged - give you lower gearing for towing up big driveways or towing something really REALLY heavy
if you have driven on the road with BOTH hubs and transfer engaged - yes you can get "wind up" and yes"sometimes" it can be released by getting one side into / onto the dirt on the side of the road
but definitely DONT make a habit of it, as it will stress the gears inside the transfer, and the weakest part will break - in my case 12 teeth off the High range and 9 teeth off the Low range gears

Mr Nissan is telling you whats on the stickers, so you dont go off road, and forget to put the hubs in - and get bogged - and hate him for his product - thats all

[Rock Trol]

To add to Bigcol's info above, the Nissan User Manual states that every month you should lock your hubs and drive in 2WD for 16km (10 Miles) to lubricate the diff and seals if you have not been off-road. So it is quite safe to drive as Bigcol has suggested above.

[BigRAWesty]

Ok. Something to look at differently.
Is it possible that you've damaged or finished of an engine mount.
Mine were fubar and when reversing.. Well it wasn't fun. Vibrations were crazy.
But driving normally it was fine.

New mounts no more problems.

I think it may be possible that if your engine or gearbox mounts were nearly had it, you've finished them off with the aggressive reversing, as your torquing the engine differently when reversing to when going forward.

Just a thought.

[dom14]

I would not bother for that trip, the factory Nissan LSD is the next best thing to being locked.

What I got at the moment is not the factory LSD. It's from a GU, same ratio though, but not as good the GQ 4:3 one, 'cos the clutch pack is pretty much half the size of GQ one(I'was shown and told by a manual transmission/diff specialist)
The factory one is still on the bench. I've been rebuilding it and then got busy.
I'm planning to get it done within a week.
Once it's done, I will have GU 4:3 rear LSD for sale. :)

[dom14]

Ok. Something to look at differently.
Is it possible that you've damaged or finished of an engine mount.
Mine were fubar and when reversing.. Well it wasn't fun. Vibrations were crazy.
But driving normally it was fine.

New mounts no more problems.

I think it may be possible that if your engine or gearbox mounts were nearly had it, you've finished them off with the aggressive reversing, as your torquing the engine differently when reversing to when going forward.

Just a thought.

Thanks mate. I haven't had a look at them(gear box mounts) for few months. will do that first thing in the morning.
One of the engine mount was brand new(two years ago). The other one looked good few months ago.
But, obviously I need to take a close look and lever it up and see if it's cracked.

[dom14]

To add to Bigcol's info above, the Nissan User Manual states that every month you should lock your hubs and drive in 2WD for 16km (10 Miles) to lubricate the diff and seals if you have not been off-road. So it is quite safe to drive as Bigcol has suggested above.

Yep, mate. I haven't been doing it every month for sure. It's about time.

[dom14]

I would not bother for that trip, the factory Nissan LSD is the next best thing to being locked.

What if I'm to say, I might end up doing sand driving on big red? :)

I do have a high lift jack and a manual winch. But, won't help, will it?

[Rock Trol]

What if I'm to say, I might end up doing sand driving on big red? :)

I do have a high lift jack and a manual winch. But, won't help, will it?

No need for a locker on the Simpson trip. It's all tyre pressures. Big red, try 12-16 psi and you can drive up it no problems. The lower the pressure, the slower you can drive.
Over the rest of the Simpson 16-18psi and you will get over everything without trashing the car or the track.

[BigRAWesty]

Thanks mate. I haven't had a look at them(gear box mounts) for few months. will do that first thing in the morning. One of the engine mount was brand new(two years ago). The other one looked good few months ago. But, obviously I need to take a close look and lever it up and see if it's cracked.

It could be gear box mounts also.
I just remembering was fubar and the sound was crazy.
Fitted new ones to the engine and its a new car.
Yet to do gearbox yet..

[dom14]

No need for a locker on the Simpson trip. It's all tyre pressures. Big red, try 12-16 psi and you can drive up it no problems. The lower the pressure, the slower you can drive.
Over the rest of the Simpson 16-18psi and you will get over everything without trashing the car or the track.

Cool, thanx mate. I've never driven on desert, at least not for long drives, so those were really life saving tips.

[dom14]

What puzzles me is that GU is heavier than GQ. Yet, they installed a 4:3 LSD(rear) with a clutch pack half the size of GQ one.
I wonder why they thought a seemingly weaker LSD in the rear of GU is ok for a 4WD?
Length of the rear axles between GQs and GUs are pretty much the same, as well as the drive shafts(GU's shorter?)
So, it doesn't make any sense to me that the new factory fitted GU 4:3 rear diff is weaker than the GQ one.
GUs 4:3 rear LSD's clutch pack is so small, the diff can easily be mistaken for an open diff, rather than an LSD.

Any thoughts guys?

'cos if I'm to be told the GU rear 4:3 LSD is as strong as GQ one, I won't bother finishing the half finished rebuilding job of the GQ rear diff.
(It's a job better left to a specialists, but I got onto it and acquired all the tools, thinking it will be fun, but it hasn't been)
It was the stuffed up pinion bearing. But, since I've dismantled it to pieces, I won't have a choice but, replacing all the bearings and setting the preloads and backlash, though I'm not
planning to dismantle the clutch pack and replacing them(assuming they are already good) or setting spider gear backlashes.
So, in reality it's a less than half a rebuild job.
But, I don't think even a diff specialist would dismantle spider gears and clutch packs for a repair job that only need to replace the pinion bearing and set the pinion bearing preload, or do they do the whole thing anyway?
In my case, I was pretty sure, I could get away with simply replacing the pinion bearing and setting the preload, but ended up dismantling the side bearing s as well. But, it would be a waste anyway, 'cos it was not possible to buy just the pinion bearing.
They all come as a kit, which includes the pinion bearing and the side bearings.

[BigRAWesty]

As far as I'm awear the lsd diffs are the same.
As with most things to do with gq to gu.
Small clutch?? Well I guess that depends on the engine. Pretty sure the 4.2 engines are pretty similar across the 2 models.

The main difference is the front diff.
The gu has a 50mm wider track over the gq. But it's also much beefier in the cv knuckles and the cv's themselves.
There was one diff which was different to the rest, and from memory that was the 4.8 petrol gu I think. Was a larger one. But unsure about strength.

As for the ratios. Well they vary depending on engine, transmission and year.

Yes the gu is heavier, but that's no big deal. Makes a nicer ride.

[Robo]

Clutch problems (shudder) hot spots on fly wheel may be the reason,
Seeming worse in reverse, clutch is used to stresses in forward motion.

As for the smell, mixture of oil and clutch dust probably.

[Winnie]

What if I'm to say, I might end up doing sand driving on big red? :)

I do have a high lift jack and a manual winch. But, won't help, will it?

I have driven big red with no lockers, just the factory lsd.

[dom14]

As far as I'm awear the lsd diffs are the same.
As with most things to do with gq to gu.
Small clutch?? Well I guess that depends on the engine. Pretty sure the 4.2 engines are pretty similar across the 2 models.

The main difference is the front diff.
The gu has a 50mm wider track over the gq. But it's also much beefier in the cv knuckles and the cv's themselves.
There was one diff which was different to the rest, and from memory that was the 4.8 petrol gu I think. Was a larger one. But unsure about strength.

As for the ratios. Well they vary depending on engine, transmission and year.

Yes the gu is heavier, but that's no big deal. Makes a nicer ride.

I meant the clutch pack in the middle of the rear LSD, not the drive clutch. It's smaller in GU 4:3 one. The diffs are identical other than that, except the pinion flange.
GU flange was slightly longer and beefier(if I recall correctly)

Yes, the GU & GQ rear LSDs are identical from outside, but it's not inside(at least not the ones I got my hand on)

By the looks of it, smaller clutch pack in the GU rear LSD means that, it(LSD clutch pack) might wear out quicker.

I have some pictures of both LSDs. Have a look at the two pictures.

Yes, GU is a more comfortable ride from what I've heard. I"m guessing they made some improvements to the suspension?

[happygu]

I meant the clutch pack in the middle of the rear LSD, not the drive clutch. It's smaller in GU 4:3 one. The diffs are identical other than that, except the pinion flange.
GU flange was slightly longer and beefier(if I recall correctly)

Yes, the GU & GQ rear LSDs are identical from outside, but it's not inside(at least not the ones I got my hand on)

By the looks of it, smaller clutch pack in the GU rear LSD means that, it(LSD clutch pack) might wear out quicker.

I have some pictures of both LSDs. Have a look at the two pictures.

Yes, GU is a more comfortable ride from what I've heard. I"m guessing they made some improvements to the suspension?


I don't have Diff Locks in my GU, and have never worn out an LSD over four of them, so they are still very strong...... if that makes any difference for you.

My GQ had the factory rear locker so I can't directly compare them, but I know I used to get stuck more often with the open rear diff, so the LSD obviously does have an effect.

As Winnie said earlier, Simpson is well and truly OK without Diff Locks, and it is all down to tyre pressure. Don't be afraid to drop your pressures, and you will make it far ... just make sure that you have a good quality compressor to pump the tyres back up for the road sections at either end ..... :)

[dom14]

I don't have Diff Locks in my GU, and have never worn out an LSD over four of them, so they are still very strong...... if that makes any difference for you.

My GQ had the factory rear locker so I can't directly compare them, but I know I used to get stuck more often with the open rear diff, so the LSD obviously does have an effect.

As Winnie said earlier, Simpson is well and truly OK without Diff Locks, and it is all down to tyre pressure. Don't be afraid to drop your pressures, and you will make it far ... just make sure that you have a good quality compressor to pump the tyres back up for the road sections at either end ..... :)

Yes, mate. I do have 150L/m compressor. I've started building my own little tank as well(to pump tyres, in case tyres need changing).

If I understood you correctly, I don't need to worry about rebuilding the original GQ rear LSD and can do well with the GU rear LSD in my GQ.

I'm hoping to do tracks like Birdsville track as well. I thought diff locker might come handy when or if the parts of those tracks get muddy. :)

What I would love to have is a AWD fourby. I'm just dreaming. :D

[nissannewby]

There are differences in the later gu lsd. There is yet to be any proof that one is better than the other. You can still get the basket type in gus but its not known until you pull it out. The different type uses clutch packs on the side gears instead of in a basket like the other type.

[nissannewby]

Ok. Something to look at differently.
Is it possible that you've damaged or finished of an engine mount.
Mine were fubar and when reversing.. Well it wasn't fun. Vibrations were crazy.
But driving normally it was fine.

New mounts no more problems.

I think it may be possible that if your engine or gearbox mounts were nearly had it, you've finished them off with the aggressive reversing, as your torquing the engine differently when reversing to when going forward.

Just a thought.

The engine still rotates in the same direction.....

[Rock Trol]

There are differences in the later gu lsd. There is yet to be any proof that one is better than the other. You can still get the basket type in gus but its not known until you pull it out. The different type uses clutch packs on the side gears instead of in a basket like the other type.

Nissannewby, do you know if there was a model or year they changed over? Or where both LSD types installed concurrently in different models of Patrol (DX vs ST/Ute vs Wagon etc.).

[nissannewby]

No mate unsure if there was specific time in which they changed over. I dont really think its model specific either. The larger h260 diff will have the basket type. Its really anyones guess as to whats in it.

[dom14]

There are differences in the later gu lsd. There is yet to be any proof that one is better than the other. You can still get the basket type in gus but its not known until you pull it out. The different type uses clutch packs on the side gears instead of in a basket like the other type.

I would love to see a dismantled one of those LSDs with clutch packs on side gears. I'm guessing they perform better, as there're too finely tuned clutch packs of each axle.

[BigRAWesty]

The engine still rotates in the same direction.....

Yes, but the torque required to drive car forward or backwards is different..

[dom14]

Yes, but the torque required to drive car forward or backwards is different..

That must be 'cos there's only one reverse gear and the torque must be mechanically compromised to be able to find the right balance between speed and power for reversing.

[nissannewby]

Yes, but the torque required to drive car forward or backwards is different..

Not exactly. The torsional twist comes from the engine rotation. This happens because the crank is not symmetrical and obviosuly has weight being thrown around. A gearbox has nice straight shafts with near as applicable perfectly round gears.

The only thing that changes is the rotational direction of the output shaft and then obviously the diff.

[the evil twin]

Not all vehicle diffs aren't symmetrical either... the pinion is offset and the gears helical cut.
This makes the transfer of the torque from the pinion to the crown more efficient with the helix (forward) than against it (reverse).
Thats why mechanical diffs in industry or whatever that need to rotate with equal efficiency and speed in either direction are centre driven and the teeth parallel ground

[dom14]

Not all vehicle diffs aren't symmetrical either... the pinion is offset and the gears helical cut.
This makes the transfer of the torque from the pinion to the crown more efficient with the helix (forward) than against it (reverse).
Thats why mechanical diffs in industry or whatever that need to rotate with equal efficiency and speed in either direction are centre driven and the teeth parallel ground

I'm puzzled about the reason the teeth need to be parallel to the ground.

[BigRAWesty]

I'm puzzled about the reason the teeth need to be parallel to the ground.

Lol. Not quite.
He means straight cut, not on an angle like our diffs.

[dom14]

Lol. Not quite.
He means straight cut, not on an angle like our diffs.

Ok, cool. :D

What does it mean the "pinion is offset"? and why?
I'm guessing by offset, the evil twin meant the axis of the pinion doesn't necessary go across the axis of the crown wheel?
What is the need for that offset in some diffs?

[dom14]

Just updating. Engine mounts & gearbx mounts are in good nick.
Clutch oil level is good. No oil leaks either.
So, I'm puzzled about the funny smell of clutch grinding.

[threedogs]

How many Ks have got on the clock and history of previous owner towing a van or such

[BigRAWesty]

It's quite possible that the extra heat made from the clutch has burn some residual grim oil etc built up over the years.

I guess if you still have traction on the clutch then it's still ok. Could be damaged but at least you have some time up your sleeve to get it done.

[dom14]

How many Ks have got on the clock and history of previous owner towing a van or such

330k & I have no idea about previous owners except the bloke I bought it from, and he wasn't driving for too long from what I remember.

[dom14]

How many Ks have got on the clock and history of previous owner towing a van or such

330k & I have no idea about previous owners except the bloke I bought it from, and he wasn't driving for too long from what I remember.

No idea about previous towing, but It did have some signs of off roading. There was a fair bit of a thick mud layer stuck on the chassis and under body, which could be from some serious mud trekking. Or it could be years of dust sticking to the chassis over time as well(which I don't think so, 'cos I haven't seen it in other cars that come with lot lower suspension than 4WDs.

[dom14]

It's quite possible that the extra heat made from the clutch has burn some residual grim oil etc built up over the years.

I guess if you still have traction on the clutch then it's still ok. Could be damaged but at least you have some time up your sleeve to get it done.

It still has traction.
I'm just wondering whether it's a good idea to go on a long trip with the caravan or whether I should get the clutch replaced before that.

[93patrol]

If your not sure about it I would get it replaced just to be on the safe side.

[BigRAWesty]

If your not sure about it I would get it replaced just to be on the safe side.
Yea I agree.
330k is a good haul and without knowing is history I'd be playing it safe if you can.

[dom14]

Yea I agree.
330k is a good haul and without knowing is history I'd be playing it safe if you can.

Yep, I totally agree. It's not worth the risk on long trips. I posted a bunch questions in a new thread about which way to go about replacing the clutch for the long haul.
So far, no responses. Nothing can substitute for the knowledge of the fellas who's done it already and learnt from their mistakes.
I'm still waiting for few useful replies before I go ahead and start pulling apart the clutch and buying parts.

[dom14]

Just updating.
The clutch is fine. The smell I was complaining about in this post, believe it or not, actually from the burning of the headlight plugs, 'cos they were loose. While replacing the plugs with new ones last week, I just smelled the melted and damaged plugs from loose connection heat. There you go. The smell is unmistakable. Hight revs and jerking of the vehicle during the caravan backup must have affected the headlights( I was doing it at night) and cause the plugs to cook and produce the characteristic smell.

[Nightjar]

Being a 11ft van it is probably out of the question but do you by chance have electric brakes fitted to the van?
If so did you plug/connect the breakaway?

[dom14]

Being a 11ft van it is probably out of the question but do you by chance have electric brakes fitted to the van?
If so did you plug/connect the breakaway?

No, the brake is hydraulic with the spring hitch. And I didn't have the trailer plug connected to the van when I was backing it up(if I recall it correctly).
I was simply moving it from one driveway to the other.
The headlight plugs have been deteriorating due to crap being stuck inside it overtime and creating loose connection. The plug has been melting for a while.
I already knew the clutch grinding smell pretty well(don't we all?).
So, I knew the smell I experienced was weird. I'm glad I sorted it out finally and I didn't have to do the clutch thinking the clutch is on it's way. :)