Yet more issues...

[Evo]

Hey guys,

After a bit of a trouble free patch, I had a bit of a grinding rumble from front wheels, and noticed swivel hub was leaking.
Got it all checked out and wheel bearings were on their way out (left front was pretty chewed).
So, got swivel hubs overhauled, new front and rear wheel bearings.

After getting it back, bad steering shake, and an up/down vibration at 80km/h plus, both of which weren't there before the bearing and swivel hub work.
There was slight steering shake, but definitely something I could live with, unlike now.

Question is, what could be causing it all? Drives fine under 80km/h.

Took it back and they said balance could be out, so balanced the wheels.

Still there...

Just FYI, 1998 GU 4500 Wagon.
25000 (if that) kms on tyres (rotated and balanced every 10000)
10000 (probably less) kms on suspension (all suspension)
100 kms on new wheel bearings (front and rear) and overhauled swivel hubs

But like I said, issue has only appeared after last lot of work, so wheel bearings and swivel hub overhaul...

Getting very short on money and patience, even thinking of selling it because it seems to be never ending, and mostly when I've just dropped a heap of money on maintenance/replacements...

Any information is much appreciated.

Evo

[Drewboyaus]

There's a shim for the kingpin bearings that could have been left out when being put back together. That shim has been known to effect wobble in the front end......

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

[BigRAWesty]

There's a shim for the kingpin bearings that could have been left out when being put back together. That shim has been known to effect wobble in the front end...... Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner
Leaving a shim out won't affect it as it'll pre load bearings more.

I'd take the locking caps off and re check bearing tension, maybe just need a nip up now they have seated.

Did you get an alignment done after the rebuild?

[threedogs]

Jack it up and see if theres any play in the bearings, does it shudder under brakes??

[the evil twin]

X3 with above posts... the first thing to check is the last thing that was touched so I'd check the bearing preloads before setting the Car on fire to get the insurance money

[Evo]

Hey guys,

Thanks for the replies.

The guys who did it said it was put back together with everything that came off (except for the replacement new components).
As for bearings, I'm not sure how to check and/or adjust. And no, was told alignment wasn't needed...
No shudder under brakes.
Might try to jack up the front tomorrow and see if there's any play anywhere.
At a steady 100km/h there's still the up/down thing, almost like a tyre has gone out of round, but all tyres have been checked and are good...
It's just so frustrating because it seems every time I dump a heap of hard saved coin to get something fixed, I end up with some form of side effect issue that ends up haunting me for weeks to months before being found...


Evo

[Bigcol]

Hey guys,

Thanks for the replies.

The guys who did it said it was put back together with everything that came off (except for the replacement new components).
As for bearings, I'm not sure how to check and/or adjust. And no, was told alignment wasn't needed...
No shudder under brakes.
Might try to jack up the front tomorrow and see if there's any play anywhere.
At a steady 100km/h there's still the up/down thing, almost like a tyre has gone out of round, but all tyres have been checked and are good...
It's just so frustrating because it seems every time I dump a heap of hard saved coin to get something fixed, I end up with some form of side effect issue that ends up haunting me for weeks to months before being found...

Evo

welcome to owning a 4wd.....................

mind you, if he (the guy who did the work) said everything went back together as before (but with new parts) I would be asking to explain how it never had the wobbles and now does......... after he has touched it

and if he says "oh thats the Nissan Wobbles" punch him in the nose and say - "thats for lying".......


I would also be looking for a new Mechanic - if everytime you take it to him it ends up costing way more than it needs..... something fishy in Denmark.........

[Evo]

welcome to owning a 4wd.....................

mind you, if he (the guy who did the work) said everything went back together as before (but with new parts) I would be asking to explain how it never had the wobbles and now does......... after he has touched it

and if he says "oh thats the Nissan Wobbles" punch him in the nose and say - "thats for lying".......


I would also be looking for a new Mechanic - if everytime you take it to him it ends up costing way more than it needs..... something fishy in Denmark.........


I've had 4x4's in the past, but never having so many issues like this...

As for the work, the bearings and swivel overhaul were the only things this mechanic has done on the GU.

This is what makes me feel like getting rid of it, because no matter what I do, where I go, I have issues, and end up chasing them...

Evo

[threedogs]

Only a minor isssue EVO, if you jack it up and find even a small amount of play by grabbing the wheel top and bottom take it back.
If no play is found take it back anyway and request he check his work as the "problem" was not there before, be firm

[Evo]

Seems to be the plan.

From my understanding, wheel bearings, swivel bearings, would cause steering shake, but what about the vertical vibration I'm getting at 100km/h?
Still be related to the same components?
Or would the new parts have caused a pre-existing issue to become more apparent?

Evo

[Drewboyaus]

Seriously, I jacked mine up and had no play in the wheels/hubs.... I said f@ck it and did the kingpin bearings anyway and I'm glad I did because they were rooted.
I don't reckon you'll feel any play unless its ridiculously bad and I'm not joking when I say mine were rooted.
It's possible that the wobble is another issue previously masked by the swivel hubs in the past. Since I did mine, it's like a new car.
I'd take it back and tell them to fix what they screwed up.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

[BigRAWesty]

Seriously, I jacked mine up and had no play in the wheels/hubs.... I said f@ck it and did the kingpin bearings anyway and I'm glad I did because they were rooted. I don't reckon you'll feel any play unless its ridiculously bad and I'm not joking when I say mine were rooted. It's possible that the wobble is another issue previously masked by the swivel hubs in the past. Since I did mine, it's like a new car. I'd take it back and tell them to fix what they screwed up. Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

Yea I'm with you. A worn king pin is hard to feel. It's more wheel bearings which will show.

Have a quick flick threw Darren's (mudrunner) swivel hub rebuild thread. He goes over the wheel bearings side of things so see if you have the tools to give it a nip up.
It really isn't hard if you some Allen keys and spanners.

[crash520]

during a re build, when the axles get put back in, there is a pair of flats on the CV joint, im only guessing here but do they have to go in 90* opposed to each other that is left and right or do you just toss them in no matter where they end up as such

[lhurley]

Cv turns when in 4wd so position doesn't matter. I've done mine a few times, helped mates a couple as well and never worried about where the flats on the cv go.

Until my last off road trip I had no wobbles. I do now but that because of mud in the back of the rims that I haven't washed out yet.

[BigRAWesty]

I would personally do a alignment.
Hopefully they removed the tie rod and drag links when doing the swivel hubs and just didn't let them hang on the rods. So even if something was accidentally turned 1 turn it'll be all out.

[mudski]

Check your panhard rod bushes. If these are worn you will most certainly have wobbles. As for you up and down shakes. If your tyres are going out of round, shockers i would be looking at.

[the evil twin]

during a re build, when the axles get put back in, there is a pair of flats on the CV joint, im only guessing here but do they have to go in 90* opposed to each other that is left and right or do you just toss them in no matter where they end up as such


Cv turns when in 4wd so position doesn't matter. I've done mine a few times, helped mates a couple as well and never worried about where the flats on the cv go.



The pair of flats on a Birfield are only so you can get it in and out of the trunnion which is "flattened" top and bottom for the king pin bearings so you need flats on the Birfield to be top and bottom to clear the housing.

Given that there is a diff involved with the CV's if you try and phase them in any way, say 90 deg, as soon as one wheel differentiates the phasing will be lost unlike the Uni joints in a drive shaft whose phasing relationship is fixed once bolted up.

Get the phasing wrong on universals and vibrations etc are an issue.
Birfields and other types of CV are much more forgiving

[crash520]

Thanks ET, good info

[Evo]

Hey guys,

Not sure who I'm answering, or in what order, but here goes...

Jacked it up and did the pull/push on the top and bottom of one wheel, and to me, felt there was a little movement.
Checked suspension, nothing loose, all bushes, shocks, etc are all pretty new, only done late last year.
Tyres are all fine and evenly worn and balanced.

King pins, are you meaning the top and bottom bearings on the swivel assembly?
If so, these were included in the hub kit and were replaced.
But problem only came up after hub rebuild and new bearings, so I would think it's isolated to something in that area.
From what was described, the front was pulled apart completely for the swivel hub overhaul, so no tie rod or drag link was left hanging anywhere.
Called them back today, it's going back in Wednesday as I spoke to the boss and he said sounds like the new bearings were nipped up, but not enough, and have settled a bit since I picked up and drove so will need to be rechecked.
I'm hoping that's all it will take...

Thanks guys.

Evo

[BigRAWesty]

Ok. Defiantly have a look threw the swivel Hub thread and nip up wheel bearings asap.
I'd say they have preloaded bearings full of grease and now the grease has dispersed and bearings have seated properly, making them a little loose.
If you have Allen keys, circlip pliers, and either a 52mm socket or big shifter you can do it. Probably take 3-4 hours being your first crack.

But get onto it before you shag the new bearings.

[threedogs]

Hopefully it just needs the bearings nipped up and you're good to go.
Wouldnt stress too much over it, as it'll be sorted wednesday.

The up / down movement makes me agree with Mark and that a shock has failed
and your just running on springs, the shocks not controlling the rebound.
Is it possible a stone may have damaged one??

[Evo]

I haven't driven it since I noticed it not feeling right. But hopefully all sorted tomorrow.
As for shock, it's not so much a feeling of the car bouncing up and down on the springs, but more of a vibration in an up/down direction, only when cruising at 100km/h and up...
I've tried jumpin up and down on each corner and it feels very firm, or no different to when I first had the suspension done...
Could the bearings also make this happen? Being slightly loose and all?

Evo

[BigRAWesty]

I haven't driven it since I noticed it not feeling right. But hopefully all sorted tomorrow. As for shock, it's not so much a feeling of the car bouncing up and down on the springs, but more of a vibration in an up/down direction, only when cruising at 100km/h and up... I've tried jumpin up and down on each corner and it feels very firm, or no different to when I first had the suspension done... Could the bearings also make this happen? Being slightly loose and all? Evo

It's quite possible something else aswell, but the bearings are just making it worse.
Possible slightly work bushes or rod ends.
One way to check rod ends after bearings are done is to fill them with grease, it'll rid the shakes but only for a short time. If it does rod ends are a simple thing and then a wheel alignment will be needed

[Remdogg]

Mate I had the same problem and had to remove the shims to fix it. There is a measurement of how much force it takes to move to hub so you don't put the bearings under to much load. I'll try find it for you.

[Remdogg]

Check out page 8 figure 16 on the link.

http://www.pedders.com.au/sites/default/files/PS_images/assets/Nissan%20Patrol%20Y61%20GU%20Swivel%20Hub%20Seal%2 0Installation.pdf

I tried everything and got told heaps of different story's from mechanics and this is the only thing that worked for me. Been good for 20000kms.

[Evo]

Thanks guys.

Left the patrol there overnight as they have been/will go over all the front end again, and they will also be checking the tyres thoroughly.
See how it goes.

Evo

[Evo]

Ok, so from what was explained to me, all the bearings and the swivels were rechecked and are all good, the issue is due to the tyres.
With the new wheel bearings and swivels, issues with the tyres have been more pronounced.
Also, the tyres were wearing in a certain way with the old worn setup, and now the tyres are being made to wear differently because everything is now new and tight.
Also being mud terrains, the wear difference is also going to be more pronounced and noticeable in the ride.
Have been recommended by them to keep driving normally to use these tyres up (as they have a LOT of tread left still) and then switch to an all terrain.
They have guaranteed that everything else is good.
To me the explanation makes sense, so hopefully all good.

Evo

[Stropp]

sounds feasible to me mate, if you want to borrow some wheels and tyres that are round let me know as i have a set of at's at home as i just changed over to the muds for winter.




Ok, so from what was explained to me, all the bearings and the swivels were rechecked and are all good, the issue is due to the tyres.
With the new wheel bearings and swivels, issues with the tyres have been more pronounced.
Also, the tyres were wearing in a certain way with the old worn setup, and now the tyres are being made to wear differently because everything is now new and tight.
Also being mud terrains, the wear difference is also going to be more pronounced and noticeable in the ride.
Have been recommended by them to keep driving normally to use these tyres up (as they have a LOT of tread left still) and then switch to an all terrain.
They have guaranteed that everything else is good.
To me the explanation makes sense, so hopefully all good.

Evo

[the evil twin]

Agree that tyres may be part of the issues but the rest sounds like total Bullshit to me.

Try a tyre rotation and see if it makes it better/worse
Check the wear across your tyres as well and if it is reasonably even then I call BS

What brand are the tyres?
If they are quality brand and correctly balanced I call BS

Some muddies are more prone to tyre slap than others
Tyre slap is when the centrifugal forces cause the leading edge of the each chunky block of the tread to hit the bitumen 'early' so it wears the leading edges prematurely.
Check for that as well as that can cause some weird issues as well as being bloody noisy

[Evo]

Might just take you up on that sometime Stropp.

They found one tyre is slightly out of round and not true on the rim, so they turned tyre on rim and balanced as best they could. Tyres all seem to be wearing very evenly, brand is Summit.
Also they said pressures weren't right, they need to be run at 40 where I didn't realise last rotation and balance they were set to 32 (different tyre place).

Pending how my back is, I might jack up the front tomorrow and try checking these wheel bearings myself again...

So the general consensus is one play is removed, tighten until the next closest hole lines up rather than slacken off to last closes hole?

Evo

[Evo]

What size tyres and brands are you running for the two sets Stropp?

Evo

[Evo]

Bump?

Evo

[Evo]

Anyone want to come take it for a drive with me and see what you think?
How it drives/feels/handles?

Evo

[Kelvinator]

I am going to say that they have buggered up. What I cannot believe, as a mechanic myself, that they did not immediately get your car back up on that hoist and strip those hubs down again, at the very least check for wheel bearing play.

Swivel hub shims do play a part in steering geometry and could be a minor cause at this stage but over time would create a bigger issue. Not many people ever test king pin bearing pre-load. I don't even have the tools to do it or bother, but I can do my bearings as often as I like. For a customer i would expect this to be done

Nissan patrols are known to require a second tickle up 1 to 2 weeks later after driving around. Mainly because its so hard for people without the skills or tools to get the bearing pre-load correct. This shouldn't be the case but it often is.

Your bearings got to the point that they were rumbling, which leads me to believe that your maintenance schedule may be a bit behind, so the potential that jacking up your vehicle on the hoist may have caused something else to shift/slip/tear is possible. Bushes mainly i would expect, possible radius arm, panhard rod bushes. I would check all those.

[Kelvinator]

Ooops, didn't read the third page. That tyre wear that they say is more pronounced now due to new bearings, not sure I'm believing that. I think they retorqued your bearings and didnt want to take the blame for incorrect pre-load.
You can flip the front tyres so they run backwards and put on rear and the same with the rears on to the fronts to try and wear them flat again if that really is the case. Some muddies do create that really bad wave of one high lug one low the whole way round which can cause shocking vibrations. Particularly Wranglers, and there's no real way to combat it. I now recommend any of the MT atz p3, dick cepek fun countrys or FC's, or even the stmaxx coopers. As an aggressive all terrain with closer lug spacing I have not come across that weird wear again, and I cannot for the life of me see any lack of performance in mud, but a better performance on sand for sure. Road handling and noise was better too. I bought a gq that came with 8 wranglers all with that bad wave wear. I dreaded the sight of them but wore them flat(ish) and used them for 2 years. They all blew out the side wall eventually so, yep, that got rid of them.

As for tickling up your wheelbearings, the workshop manuals on this forum explain in good detail exactly how to do your wheel bearings, no need to guess.

[Evo]

Thanks Kelvinator.

Just not sure what to believe.
Still doesn't feel right to me, something is definitely different since having wheel bearings and swivel hubs done...

See how things go and might have another look tomorrow.

Just want to enjoy it and take it out, but the way things have been going, not sure I want to deal with it much more...

Thanks again.

Evo

[Kelvinator]

It will only take one experienced bloke to see what's wrong. Find that bloke and leave a beer trail to your patrol. Also, borrow a mates good tyres and take it for a drive. See what happens. Hit up your local 4wd club and id almost put money on somebody being willing to help

[Stropp]

What size tyres and brands are you running for the two sets Stropp?

Evo

Sorry mate I have hankooks for both sets, one lot are 33 ATs and the other are35 mts, 17 inch std factory mags.

[Evo]

All good Stropp.

Thanks

Evo

[Evo]

Yeah Kelvinator.

Not sure who in WA near me could be considered as an 'experienced bloke' to sort this out.
As a few others on here have followed previously, I can get 6 different answers from 4 different 'experts' (different issue) and still be no closer to a solution...

And I'm all for looking at it myself (when health allows) but to be honest, I'm not very sure what or how when it comes to checking and adjusting the mechanicals on a 4x4.
General checks and minor maintenance, no problem, but things like this... Throw my hands in the air and walk away (while writing the for sale ad in my head).

Anyone know or trust any shops/mechanics in Perth to know what they are looking at?
While not costing me more money I don't have?

You guys on here have been top notch with all my crap, appreciate it! ☺️

Cheers

Evo

[the evil twin]

snip...

Anyone know or trust any shops/mechanics in Perth to know what they are looking at?
While not costing me more money I don't have?



That is a 'mutually exclusive' set of conditions, Cobber.

Workshop with the best rep and therefore highest pricing is prob Robson Bro's.

[Evo]

evil twin, funny you mention them.

Gave them (Robson Bros) a call and booked up for a couple of weeks.

Also found Armadale 4WD Service Centre.
Called them and spoke to the owner/manager. He said bring it in first thing Thursday, and they will have a good look. Will cost half hour labour ($60) but he said if they haven't found anything to explain the issue in that half hour, they must be doing something wrong. Gives me some hope...

Will leave it there gents and report back Thursday, hopefully with good news and more than shrapnel in my wallet...

Cheers

Evo

[Avo]

Yeah Kelvinator.

Not sure who in WA near me could be considered as an 'experienced bloke' to sort this out.
As a few others on here have followed previously, I can get 6 different answers from 4 different 'experts' (different issue) and still be no closer to a solution...

And I'm all for looking at it myself (when health allows) but to be honest, I'm not very sure what or how when it comes to checking and adjusting the mechanicals on a 4x4.
General checks and minor maintenance, no problem, but things like this... Throw my hands in the air and walk away (while writing the for sale ad in my head).

Anyone know or trust any shops/mechanics in Perth to know what they are looking at?
While not costing me more money I don't have?

You guys on here have been top notch with all my crap, appreciate it! ☺️

Cheers

Evo

your craps nothing compared to clunks..your fine

[the evil twin]

Will leave it there gents and report back Thursday, hopefully with good news and more than shrapnel in my wallet...

Cheers

Evo

I haven't had anything to do with the Armadale mob so can't comment on them... willing to bet a half a can of flat XXXX they find some worn bushes tho

[Evo]

I haven't had anything to do with the Armadale mob so can't comment on them... willing to bet a half a can of flat XXXX they find some worn bushes tho

Well, if it's bushes, I'll be ok, they are under warranty, all bushings on the suspension are barely 6 months old.

Evo

[Evo]

I'm Done...
Over it...
Everything else isn't helping either...

Sorry to waste everyone's time.

Thanks for everyone's ideas and input.

Evo

[BigRAWesty]

So did the specialists find anything??

So when you say suspension is not 12 months old is that just springs and shocks, or all bushes?
And what bushes did you go??

Did you get castor correction bushes or did you not touch the drop arms?

[Stropp]

I'm Done...
Over it...
Everything else isn't helping either...

Sorry to waste everyone's time.

Thanks for everyone's ideas and input.

Evo

how did you go mate?? hope everything is ok

[Bigcol]

I'm Done...
Over it...
Everything else isn't helping either...

Sorry to waste everyone's time.

Thanks for everyone's ideas and input.

Evo



ok, so what was the result from Armadale 4wd????
did they shed some light onto what the problem is / was / maybe............

sounds to me like a lot of small contributing factors
tyres - what type, size, off set
suspension - brand, size and lift gained
brakes - new / old / just serviced
condition of patrol old / flogged / hardly used

saying "Im done" wont help us to try and help you

to me - and I have done the same thing - swivel hubs & rotated tyres - got the death wobbles at 70-80kms
why?
because I run MT Baja MTZ's, and I think from the wear patten my rear dif is slightly bent/ out of spec.........

to fix is about $1500 for new tyres

[Evo]

So did the specialists find anything??

So when you say suspension is not 12 months old is that just springs and shocks, or all bushes?
And what bushes did you go??

Did you get castor correction bushes or did you not touch the drop arms?

Suspension was all done, ironman 3", all bushes I'm guessing are ironman, or whatever came with their gear.
Had new drop arm-chassis bushes and caster correction bushes done.

Specialist answer, see below.


how did you go mate?? hope everything is ok

See below.


ok, so what was the result from Armadale 4wd????
did they shed some light onto what the problem is / was / maybe............

sounds to me like a lot of small contributing factors
tyres - what type, size, off set mud tyres, 305 70 R16, standard patrol offset

suspension - brand, size and lift gained see above

brakes - new / old / just service brakes are all fine

condition of patrol old / flogged / hardly used Highway use before I got it, minimal off-road in my time

saying "Im done" wont help us to try and help you

to me - and I have done the same thing - swivel hubs & rotated tyres - got the death wobbles at 70-80kms
why?
because I run MT Baja MTZ's, and I think from the wear patten my rear dif is slightly bent/ out of spec......... I've been rotating the tyres every 5-10000kms since new, and have been told all are worn evenly, look really good.

to fix is about $1500 for new tyres

As for the specialists, they said everything looks fine, but then started to pick the crap out of how I have my vehicle setup, said patrols are renowned for shakes/rattles/vibrations and that I should have bought a land cruiser...

I don't know what else I can say about the issue. Everything has been covered in this thread, and pretty much everything has been tried...

Not much else I can do, my health is going downhill so I can't do much myself, and money is just non existent now...

"I'm done" just seems to sum it all up...

Evo

[cgm]

Mate, feeling for you. Not sure what else to say. Hopefully there is still a sensible way forward. Just putting up with it for a bit until something comes clear or the cash comes together?? Maybe someone can still come up with some useful suggestion.

[Evo]

Mate, feeling for you. Not sure what else to say. Hopefully there is still a sensible way forward. Just putting up with it for a bit until something comes clear or the cash comes together?? Maybe someone can still come up with some useful suggestion.

Hey mate,

Putting up with it is hard as I have back issues, so the vibrations make it uncomfortable/unbearable to drive.
I miss how smooth it was...
Just can't afford to spend any more on it at all now, so either the problem will have to fix itself or be something that won't cost anything.
Knowing my luck, I won't get off that easy.

Evo

[BigRAWesty]

Wow that is a pretty piss poor effort from the mechanic.
Hopefully he didn't charge for bull shit.

I'll read the thread again incase I missed anything.

For them to say that is crap.
Sure I'm only running a 2" lift but I have no castor correction and no dampener. 33" tyres and no shimmy or shakes.

I'd say take it back to ironman, but unsure if they'll help now.

Felling for you. I can see your frustration.

I can be sorted. Just need to find the issue.

[Bigcol]

Wow that is a pretty piss poor effort from the mechanic.
Hopefully he didn't charge for bull shit.

I'll read the thread again incase I missed anything.

For them to say that is crap.
Sure I'm only running a 2" lift but I have no castor correction and no dampener. 33" tyres and no shimmy or shakes.

I'd say take it back to ironman, but unsure if they'll help now.

Felling for you. I can see your frustration.

I can be sorted. Just need to find the issue.

I agree Westy, I now know never to bother taking my car to Armadale 4wd......... sounds like a right tosser

in your case Evo, it sounds like it is something simple..... I just cannot think what could have been missed


mate hang in there, someone will think of it.............

[BigRAWesty]

Ok. Feel for ya with the back. Hopefully it's something that can be fixed. My battle is just beginning I think.

Anyway, car.
So can you confirm that all bushes were changed.
You got new drop arms for the rear I'm guessing?? So they should have new ones.
But what about the radius arm to chassis bushes??

Did you get adjustable panhard rods with the 3" lift?

I see you got a castor correction put in. Check these bolts as its possible that the bolts have stretched a bit and are a little loose. If the look like moving the tension as if these flog out its a decent welding job to fix.

If your up to it, I'd go over all the suspension bolts. Tensions may not have been right and bushes may now be moving.

It is really hard to pin point. There is so much going on.

I didn't read if stropp had lent you the spare rubber yet?? I guess if you haven't tried it yet then maybe give it a go.
See if the tyre joint was on the ball or not.

[jay see]

Just a wild one.
Are the castor bushes in the right spot.

[Parksy]

Evo, I rebuilt my front end late last year with new bearings/seals and strangely enough, had really bad shakes afterwards. It was a simple fix, re tightening the wheel bearings. Now I can say how amazing it feels to drive. I hope this is your issue as its dead simple to fix.

But in saying this, I'm not aware of your health issues and how restricted you are, but for a mechanic to do, less than 5 minutes per side.

[threedogs]

Hey mate,

Putting up with it is hard as I have back issues, so the vibrations make it uncomfortable/unbearable to drive.
I miss how smooth it was...
Just can't afford to spend any more on it at all now, so either the problem will have to fix itself or be something that won't cost anything.
Knowing my luck, I won't get off that easy.

Evo

Evo feel for you with the back probs , you probably know mine isnt the best either having endured 17 back OPs.
As for those road vibrations that screw into your spine try insulating the seat from the floor.
I was given a strato 3000 with lumber from the insurance Co. I couldnt drive around the block.
I then cut 4 x pads from some ute tub liner[rubber], conveyor, anything to insulate the seat from the floor.
Worked a treat, but now Im claiming a Strato LTSS suspension seat and air bag suspension.
Try the rubber it will work wonders 6mm soft rubber would be ideal, the stuff I used was just recycled.
Let us know how you go please

Easy enough to re check wheel bearings, maybe some one here can check for you.??

[lhurley]

The wobbles dont necessarily have to come from the front. My patrol has developed a shake recently and it coming from the rear. I know it's the rear because it doesn't wobble when I have a trailer on. I have done everything you have before and it fixed my original issue. My original issue was fixed with factory rubber radius arm bushes.

For that shop to say that patrols are rubbish is rediculous. I would of gone off chops.

[threedogs]

I'm Done...
Over it...
Everything else isn't helping either...

Sorry to waste everyone's time.

Thanks for everyone's ideas and input.

Evo

Dont give up mate surely a member can have a quick look and check 1 wheel bearings,
and 2 the the rear wheels are on correctely.
It cant be anything big as you have done everything already.
Im miles away but if you want I can cut some rubber for you and post it over.
but dont give up you're nearly there

And agree for a shop to call Nissan Patrols Shite boxes is just madness as we know

[Stropp]

Hey evo if you can make it try wilkinsons suspension in Bayswater or ac 4wd in midvale, both do great work and will give you a quote for what needs doing.

[Rossco]

Hi Evo, I've been following you dramas and feel for you, i know how frustrating it is tracing a problem when everything seems all good.

It's probably new but worth checking the steering stabilizer even if you can find someone's to swap it to see how it goes. It's easy to say but just a process of eliminating things one by one, i know you've been down a fair road already. I had a Sierra that was fine, got a road worthy on it with new tyres, drove it out with the death wobbles. A new stabilizer fixed it tho. I know it's probably been checked to death but Panhard bush's, mounts and tightness. I'm also aware that this should be done by the shop and time and $$ add up which sux. It's also hard to decide when not to preserve with a shop you don't trust. The advice you recieved about patrols problems is rubbish. I broke a Panhard mount in an old GQ and got it repaired in Mansfield. He told me Patrols were weak and i was better off getting something along the lines of a 60 series.!! Honestly what a loaf of crap there is a reason 90 percent of comp vevicles are patrols, because they are bloody strong, yes they can be prone to wobbles but it can be rectified, and there is no reason not to run mud tyres if everythings all good.

I wish you all the best with it shame to give up now but can understand how shitty you must be feeling. Hopefully you can find a good shop you can trust and are willing to solve the problem and provide some good old fashioned customer service. Good luck with it you deserve to enjoy it.

[Evo]

Thanks guys.

The mechanic said that swivel preload was good, wheel bearing were fine, all steering and suspension links and bushes were fine...
Still cost me $60 though.
Plus another $50 for front wheel balancing.

I would like if someone can rectify, explain, make me understand, how I have been thinking things through over the last couple of nights...

GU drove very smooth and was nice and steady.
Only thing that has changed from being a nice ride to a pig, is the last lot of work done (front and rear wheel bearing, and full swivel hub overhaul).
In my mind, I don't see how this work can affect the suspension, tyres, etc, that caused no issues before.
With tyres, I would think that from the regular rotation, they would all be worn evenly, and not to the point where all of a sudden they cause issues. I've been told they are worn evenly and they are in good condition (no cuts, no chunks missing, no bulges, not even a puncture or repair).
Suspension was all done, I saw it myself, everything was replaced, but nothing has changed between no issues and now.

From all the suggestions, I have, as best as I could, looked underneath and checked nuts, bolts, bushes, checked for play, slop, misalignment, if anything was bent, worn, damaged, if things were free to move, too tight, if there was any interference between components.
Everything seems fine.

Evo

[jay see]

Have any of these mechanics actually driven the thing with you in it?

[BigRAWesty]

Thanks guys. The mechanic said that swivel preload was good, wheel bearing were fine, all steering and suspension links and bushes were fine... Still cost me $60 though. Plus another $50 for front wheel balancing. I would like if someone can rectify, explain, make me understand, how I have been thinking things through over the last couple of nights... GU drove very smooth and was nice and steady. Only thing that has changed from being a nice ride to a pig, is the last lot of work done (front and rear wheel bearing, and full swivel hub overhaul). In my mind, I don't see how this work can affect the suspension, tyres, etc, that caused no issues before. With tyres, I would think that from the regular rotation, they would all be worn evenly, and not to the point where all of a sudden they cause issues. I've been told they are worn evenly and they are in good condition (no cuts, no chunks missing, no bulges, not even a puncture or repair). Suspension was all done, I saw it myself, everything was replaced, but nothing has changed between no issues and now. From all the suggestions, I have, as best as I could, looked underneath and checked nuts, bolts, bushes, checked for play, slop, misalignment, if anything was bent, worn, damaged, if things were free to move, too tight, if there was any interference between components. Everything seems fine. Evo

I was thinking this to after reading it but didn't want to eliminate a possible cause.

So if you can I'd personally tension the wheel bearings a little more.
The bigger tyres and bigger offset does add more force. So the tension may not be up to it.
Being a gu I'd tension one hole at a time.
If it feels like it went to easy then go 2 holes.
If you can tighten it half a turn and the wheel still spins then you have every right to kick the mechanic in the nuts.

[Bigcol]

Thanks guys.

The mechanic said that swivel preload was good, wheel bearing were fine, all steering and suspension links and bushes were fine...
Still cost me $60 though.
Plus another $50 for front wheel balancing.

I would like if someone can rectify, explain, make me understand, how I have been thinking things through over the last couple of nights...

GU drove very smooth and was nice and steady.
Only thing that has changed from being a nice ride to a pig, is the last lot of work done (front and rear wheel bearing, and full swivel hub overhaul).
In my mind, I don't see how this work can affect the suspension, tyres, etc, that caused no issues before.
With tyres, I would think that from the regular rotation, they would all be worn evenly, and not to the point where all of a sudden they cause issues. I've been told they are worn evenly and they are in good condition (no cuts, no chunks missing, no bulges, not even a puncture or repair).
Suspension was all done, I saw it myself, everything was replaced, but nothing has changed between no issues and now.

From all the suggestions, I have, as best as I could, looked underneath and checked nuts, bolts, bushes, checked for play, slop, misalignment, if anything was bent, worn, damaged, if things were free to move, too tight, if there was any interference between components.
Everything seems fine.
Evo


REAR wheel bearings.............................
do you have Jack stands?
jack the back of the car up
start it and put it in 1st
get something like a LARGE T square
put it close to the wheel while its rotating (without touching the tyre please....................)
if 1 wheel bearing on the rear is not square, it will give you the wobbles..........

if you had the tools, having a great lump of steel, with a dial indicator would be the best to see if the wheel is actually rotating correctly as your eyes may not pickup the deflection
0.01 out of round would give you wobbles........

just a thought

[threedogs]

I'll stick by phsyically checking the front wheel bearing yourself or get a mate to give you a hand.
Being a GU I'd remove the rear wheels and re-fit them making sure you fit them over that lip.
Its a common prob on GUs and a shop with a rattle gun in hand will easily miss it, This was one
reason GU wheels loosened.
What ever you do please do it one thing at a time. Even write down what you do
Might beg to differ about the rear wheels being balanced, but that wont fix your problem
The good thing is its costing you nothing to re-check

[Evo]

jay see - Yes. One even picked the slight vibration at a lower speed, but still put it down to tyres/balance.

biggqwesty - I did attempt this but didn't do anything as I thought best to use the proper tool (which I don't have).

Bigcol - The patrol doesn't have wobbles, just steering shake and a vibration.

threedogs - Health and motivation are currently making me leave this alone for a while.

Evo

[BigRAWesty]

Which tool bloke? Tensioner?
Just go by feel. You want a good firm feel on the spanner but still want the tyre to turn.

[Stropp]

evo, i need to retighten my front wheel bearings when i do the front as it seems the left front will not seat correctly the first time , you need to jack the front wheels up and grab the wheel or tyre top and bottom and give it a shake to see if there is any movement, my bet will be the bearing needs tightening, if you need a hand let me know.

[threedogs]

Should start a book on this , but I think Stropp's on the money,
It doesnt take a lot for the front to shake, hang in there EVO nearly there
As for Health and motovation I hear you loud and clear lol

[jay see]

Another wild idea.

What the steering arm, knuckles, shaft or bearing.

Just thinking out loud.

[Evo]

biggqwesty - the tool for the bearing adjustment ring

Stropp - if you are able to give me a hand, I'm more than happy to drive to you. Just let me know when and how I can compensate you for your time. Would be very much appreciated.

jay see - not sure what you are saying

Evo

[threedogs]

Would it be possible to have a small meet and greet to sort out EVO ???

[Evo]

Would it be possible to have a small meet and greet to sort out EVO ???

I'd be up for that for sure!

Evo

[Evo]

Oh, nobody wants to meet up?

I'm not dangerous...

So any volunteers want to have a look at this GU and see what they think?

Evo

[Rossco]

Hi Evo, i was wondering how this was going. . . I'm assuming your over West, bit far for me would be happy to help tho. Maybe just post what area your in and hopefully some guys will jump on board soon. . .

[BigRAWesty]

Oh, nobody wants to meet up? I'm not dangerous... So any volunteers want to have a look at this GU and see what they think? Evo

I would. But it's close to a 12000k round trip, maybe more.

[threedogs]

Im sure the WA will help you out thats what this forum is about,
Like Rossco and Kallen Im miles away too, hang in there it will
get sorted

[Clunk]

As Stropp has already stated, dont mind meeting up but its very doubtful id be able to assist. Im not around this weekend though so next weekend would be soonest

[Evo]

Hey guys,

Still in the same situation...

Surely not 12000k biggqwesty, it's only a tad under 4000k to Sydney from here... :tease:

Not really needing a huge amount of help, maybe just someone with similar vehicle to take for a spin, and maybe check wheel bearings, etc...

At this point though, I'd appreciate anything...

Evo

[BigRAWesty]

Hey guys, Still in the same situation... Surely not 12000k biggqwesty, it's only a tad under 4000k to Sydney from here... :tease: Not really needing a huge amount of help, maybe just someone with similar vehicle to take for a spin, and maybe check wheel bearings, etc... At this point though, I'd appreciate anything... Evo
Ow is that all?? I'll pop over then lol

On a serious note bloke what gear do you need to do the bearings?
I have a 52mm socket if you need, and I think the gu you'll need circlip pliers and some Allen keys to remove the locking hub.

I'd simply tighten them a little as a little will make a big difference if it's them causing the issues.

[threedogs]

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Hub-Adjusting-Socket-Tool-for-Nissan-Patrol-GQ-GU-Y61-Front-Wheel-Bearing-Nut-/121490884882?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item1c496bc912

Every one should have one of these.

[Stropp]

mate been out of action with a crook back, still not the best but im getting there, if you want to drop by im in helena valley im happy to look at it. mob 0418845324

[4bye4]

mate been out of action with a crook back, still not the best but im getting there,

Pole dancing? Seriously I feel for you. been there done that a few times.

[Stropp]

Pole dancing? Seriously I feel for you. been there done that a few times.

geez i wish, still a bit painfull but got another appt with the chiro today, not as bad as others on here though, mine just needs manipulation not surgery.

[4bye4]

geez i wish, still a bit painfull but got another appt with the chiro today, not as bad as others on here though, mine just needs manipulation not surgery.

Yea mate, I had back pain for a few years. Ended up with hip replacement x 2. Anyway all the best with it. Don't want to highjack Evo's thread. He should have come to the (short) meeting last night and we all could have looked at his problem in the car park and really confused him. lol

[Avo]

I'm coming back up to perth this weekend aswell,not sure if I can get to stropp's and lend a hand aswell,drop us a pm as to what time and i'll see if I can get there.i'm good with spanners and shit,just don't know to much about diasgnosing shit with these as I get mine done by a mechanic......hadn't been to perth for months now I cannot get away from the joint.....Grrrrrr

[Avo]

that's presuming stropp wants to tell me where he lives

[Stropp]

that's presuming stropp wants to tell me where he lives

no way :)..............

[macca]

and maybe check wheel bearings,

If your doing the front bearing have a look at this,

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?23891-Pre-load-on-a-front-wheel-bearing

[Evo]

Yes, threedogs, that's the tool I'm wanting...

What meeting last night?

That's no good with the back Stropp.
Don't want you having a look if you aren't up to it mate.

I could probably manage if I could get my hands on one of those tools for a few hours...
Anyone have one I could borrow?

Evo

[Avo]

what size socket do you need,i could bring one up,,hey Evo i'll be in Bedfordale so I can come over sunday morning mate...no problem really..

[Avo]

just read through,the biggest one we got is a 50mm and a 2"

[lhurley]

You can get away with out using a tool. I don't have one nor do I plan on buying one. I use 2 long Allen keys or a punch if I have one handy. The screw ring (not sure what it's actually called) doesn't need to be super tight so it's fine to use a punch or something similar with a small amount of persuasion with a hammer.

I really do hope it's something easy that you can fix yourself. Not much beats that satisfaction. All the best bloke.

[Evo]

Thanks for the idea lhurley.

WA489 it's not a socket, it's the tool with the 2 pins for adjusting the bearing adjustment ring.
Thanks though.

See if I can get a look in the morning. Some prick broke my antenna in a shop car park so going to try fix that too...

Evo

[Evo]

And with the bearings, say I nip up where I have eliminated play but the lock ring holes don't line up, do I tighten the threaded ring to the next available hole or slacken off to the previous hole?

Evo

[macca]

If by tightening a small amount more I would head that way, if its not far the other way give that a go.

Personally using the correct tool causes the least problems, no damage, deformation of the holes or risk of a sliver of metal being dislodged.

At a pinch using two pin punches or even the blunt end of drill bits and a large screw driver to wind it up tight would be better than using a hammer and punch, but you have to use what you have.

Good luck.

[BigRAWesty]

I would add a little more load if the holes don't align.
Take your time make. It's very fascinating pulling the hubs apart, you'll be thinking "is that all that turns my wheels"...

[Evo]

Ok, gave it a go.
Ended up somehow slipping and ended up on my arse on the driveway, but that's another story...
Nipped both sides up, pretty much one hole tighter.
Not sure if it's just me, but I can't say I've noticed a difference...

Evo

[threedogs]

Once you get someone to check it for you you can then eliminate it from the problem.
Have you tried rotating your tyres ?
Must be getting close now

[BigRAWesty]

Ok, gave it a go.
Ended up somehow slipping and ended up on my arse on the driveway, but that's another story...
Nipped both sides up, pretty much one hole tighter.
Not sure if it's just me, but I can't say I've noticed a difference...

Evo

bugger mate.. did it feel tight?

i also remember you saying about the tyres?
have you had a chance to try a second set yet?

Darren told me once that the patrols dont notice unbalanced tyres on the rear.. so maybe if your up for it swap the rear tyres to the fronts.. see if that makes any change..

[threedogs]

bugger mate.. did it feel tight?

i also remember you saying about the tyres?
have you had a chance to try a second set yet?

Darren told me once that the patrols dont notice unbalanced tyres on the rear.. so maybe if your up for it swap the rear tyres to the fronts.. see if that makes any change..


Most vehicles will get away with no balance on the rear tyres

[Evo]

threedogs, biggqwesty...

I slowly tightened the adjustment ring little by little until I couldn't feel any play. Slackened off and checked, then nipped up again to the next closest hole. Wheels would spin freely, but not excessively freely. Have done a good drive at 100kmh, after which I got out and checked the hubs for heat. All seems fine so I guess I must have done it right.

Next will be tyres, probably rotation first, and see how goes. When the fronts were rebalanced the last time, they said the rears had no weights on them, so I guess that backs up what both of you have said.

Going to see if I can swap tyres front to back this week, weather and back permitting, but just a thought, say when driving, driver side front wheel is rotating clockwise, now if that was put onto the passenger side, it would be rotating counter clockwise, or opposite direction. Would this possibly make a difference? As in wear pattern on a mud terrain? I've heard older MUDs that have done a few kms feather on the tread blocks (not that I can see on mine nor have they done high kms) or whatever, but just part of my thought process...
Was thinking that when the bearing/swivels were done, maybe the tyres weren't put back on the same side they were taken off from, so in effect, this would have upset the wear and also the rotation pattern that has been kept up since tyres were new?

Evo

[BigRAWesty]

I would say it would wear differently but to be honest I haven't noticed ever on my busses, and that's the normal rotation recommendation.

If your tears are not weighted then I guess wait for the ration period and then do it. No point in forking cash out early.