Dawes and Needle valve issues

[Dinger]

I am pretty sure the set up is correct I have just been unable to get the settings correct.
The rig goes into limp mode at 2600 and 31-3200 rpms.
I have the boost set to 15 psi it runs at 10 psi at 22-2300 rpm and 100km/ph
The only part of the initial setup I have not achieved is the 1/4 inch drop at the actuator on start up.
I have replaced the MAF but still get the limp.
Any advice would be appreciated

55785

[mudski]

What did you do with the needle valve? Or how did you set this up? I would wind the needle valve right in and then back it off until the rod drops your 1/4 inch or 10mm or there abouts. Then try again. Sounds like the needle valve is closed off too much.

[Dinger]

Hey Mudski,
I started the needle valve wound all the way in clock wise so it is past the 0 mark and then start the rig. I left it for about 1 minute or so but no movt. Not sure if that is long enough? I am pretty sure that that might be the problem I am just not sure how to progress.
It has only started I the last month I had some plumbing issues with the IC but that is all good now (lost a hose clamp)

[Hodge]

Hey Mudski,
I started the needle valve wound all the way in clock wise so it is past the 0 mark and then start the rig. I left it for about 1 minute or so but no movt. Not sure if that is long enough? I am pretty sure that that might be the problem I am just not sure how to progress.
It has only started I the last month I had some plumbing issues with the IC but that is all good now (lost a hose clamp)

You shouldn't have to wait mate. The rod should slowly start dropping as you are unwinding the needle valve.
So as mudski said, wind the needle in fully clockwise (forget the numbers on the valve). Then start the car, and slowly unwind until it drops about 10mm. Then go for a spin and see what happens.

[Dinger]

Cheers guys I will give it a crack tomorrow and let you know how I went

[mudski]

shut the vacuum supply right off. Totally, start the car and slowly watch the rod drop down while you are opening up the needle valve, and stop at about 10mm. Then have another go.

[Dinger]

Did a couple of runs today things are little more stable I will keep tweaking and see where I end up.
thanks for your advice guys

[threedogs]

write down any adjustments you make, easier to remember that way IMO
What is your max boost???

[Dinger]

Did 300 km today highway and light 4wd
Still getting limp mode .
Max boost is only getting to 15 psi will turn it up and run again tomorrow.
I only did fine adjustments through the needle
Although when I run in second (auto) I don't have any issues.

[Paule]

I've had similar issues, they way I got around it was to lower my max boost to 14psi. Now I don't get any limp mode probs, and I can't feel any difference with 1 psi lower.

[mullet_hunter]

Im running upto 25psi and no limp mode..

[Paule]

Im running upto 25psi and no limp mode..

Do you have stock air box or any other mods that would help achieve those figures? Also is yours auto or manual. Mine is an auto like the OP

[Hodge]

When my car was getting chip-dynoed, the bloke there told me something I didn't know. The limp mode is caused by a number of factors creating a certain "scenario" when it comes to air/fuel/boost/temperature side of sensors...

[mullet_hunter]

stock except hpd maf housing, hpd air box lid, hpd catch can...

[Paule]

stock except hpd maf housing, hpd air box lid, hpd catch can...

Yeah with the hpd maf housing and air box lid you can have as much boost as you want.

[mullet_hunter]

my egt's hardly ever get over 300...

[Dinger]

Still got the limp issue after numerous tweaks. Problem might be elsewhere I think. Would getting a dyno tune fix it?

[mudski]

Still got the limp issue after numerous tweaks. Problem might be elsewhere I think. Would getting a dyno tune fix it?

A dyno is a waste of money, unless the person doing the dyno knows how to adjust these valves, and I'm yet to find one. Not saying there isn't...Lol
So. Whats your max boost level? Does limp kick in at anytime your put the boot in or just on certain hills or ways you drive? Have you given the MAF a clean lately?
I will add, prior to me getting the HPD maf housing, I could not get anything over 16psi. And even at that I had to have a fairly slow spool up rate so I wouldn't see limp mode. It wasn't the maf as I had changed it over with no difference.
So what I'm saying is, some ZD30's just don't like boost. Drop your max boost a tad, so if your at 16psi, try and drop it by half or quarter a psi if you can. Then bring the spool up rate back up(winding in the needle valve).

[Dinger]

Thanks mudski for the advice. I changed the maf on the weekend. The one I bought from you before xmas. I will take your advice and do the adjustments you advise. I will try it over the weekend and see whay happens. Thanks again

[Dinger]

Well my saga is continuing. I have got rid on one point that it goes to limp at around 3200 rpm so it is getting closer to being gone a few more tweets and it should be solved. Thanks for all the advice. I will report when the problem is completely solved. Thanks again

[mudski]

Drop your max boost pressure on the dawes tad more. This will give you more room to play with the needle valve.

[Dinger]

Righto now I confused I am unable to reduce the boost. The dawes is only on two threads and I am getting 19 psi. The spring looks like it is in pretty good shape not deformed or anything. Should I look at replacing it or the whole valve. I know there are plenty of guys that have got this dialed in without too many issues and I am not mechanically daft but this has me stumped. I am just unsure what to do next is there something I am missing in this process.

[mudski]

What I would do here is, remove the dawes, check the spring again, and make sure the spring is not binding up inside the dawes. Sounds to me it is and its not letting the tension off the spring. When you put it back together, wind the dawes in slow and you will feel the spring in there slipping on the adjuster cap, if it feels notchy, check that the spring hasn't dug a small groove in the body of the dawes causing it to catch. I get quite a few people come to me with issues like this and its just the spring causing is from the constant adjust and re adjust. You'll get it soon enough mate.

[threedogs]

OOI have you stretched the spring in the Dawes valve, if you have try to un stretch it by twisting it slowly.
Also dis connect the battery for a while to re set the ECU.
When winding out the needle valve to set it,, it may take a few turns before the actuator arm drops,
mine did, nearly there you may be only 2 psi away from being spot on lol

[mudski]

OOI have you stretched the spring in the Dawes valve, if you have try to un stretch it by twisting it slowly.
Also dis connect the battery for a while to re set the ECU.
When winding out the needle valve to set it,, it may take a few turns before the actuator arm drops,
mine did, nearly there you may be only 2 psi away from being spot on lol

He's got the new style dawes John. Well they have been around for 18 months or so. The newer style valves run a stronger spring so no need to stretch them anymore.

[Dinger]

Well it is getting closer still a few issues but persistence seems to be slowly paying off.
I removed the whole system this morning with out adjusting the dawes I found a few possible points of failure so I went around with a spanner and tightened all the hose clamps.
As for the actuator on the turbo I get no movement at all with it. It doesn't matter what I try. The only time there is any movement is if I do it manually. It is always hard up against the grub screw .
I am have also disconnected the battery to do a reset. I am starting to wonder if there is a problem with the auto transmission it will let me accelerate revs go up but no increase in speed. Then other times it is definitely limp mode with no increase in revs or power.

[threedogs]

He's got the new style dawes John. Well they have been around for 18 months or so. The newer style valves run a stronger spring so no need to stretch them anymore.

I wasnt suggesting Dinger stretch it I asked if he had then try to "unstretch it"
which with a little persistence is possible on the Dawes [tm] valve

OOI again what year is it and do you have a Tigged or aftermarket IC?

[Dinger]

You crack me up three dogs. In a good way
it is 2006 and I have a HPD intercooler installed in Dec last year.
it ran fine up until I have so e hoses blow off. That was definitely operator error.

[threedogs]

Mine blew the hose off and it ended up being the Crank position sensor.
Funny you said that sometimes I crack myself up too not often though
disconnect the battery for awhile as well,,,,, if its aCRD and
you have the EGR blocked it might need a 10mm hole in it.
but 06 is Di I think yes

[Dinger]

Haha.
Yeah it is a di.
EGR is blocked.
I will keep plodding along and see where I end up.
Going for another test drive now will see how I go.

[Dinger]

Well it is a most there few more tweaks slowly slowly.
still think there is something else but will get this right first

[Dinger]

What I would do here is, remove the dawes, check the spring again, and make sure the spring is not binding up inside the dawes. Sounds to me it is and its not letting the tension off the spring. When you put it back together, wind the dawes in slow and you will feel the spring in there slipping on the adjuster cap, if it feels notchy, check that the spring hasn't dug a small groove in the body of the dawes causing it to catch. I get quite a few people come to me with issues like this and its just the spring causing is from the constant adjust and re adjust. You'll get it soon enough mate.

Guys should I be able to hear the ball bearing rattling around when I shake the dawes valve with the engine at idle? I am a bit confused over the fact that the actuator arm doesn't move when I turn the needle valve either. Could this be a source of issue?

[mudski]

Guys should I be able to hear the ball bearing rattling around when I shake the dawes valve with the engine at idle? I am a bit confused over the fact that the actuator arm doesn't move when I turn the needle valve either. Could this be a source of issue?

No mate. You have the dawes open way too much if the ball is rattling. Screw in the dawes and try the needle valve adjustment then. If no joy, the diagram in the actuator could be stuffed. The other side of the needle valve. Where is it plumbed in to?

[Dinger]

That sounds like it could be the issue.
So winding the dawes in will reduce boost?

[mudski]

That sounds like it could be the issue.
So winding the dawes in will reduce boost?

Winding in will increase boost. Take the boost hose off the dawes as it sits now. Before you touch it again. And see if you can blow air though it with your mouth.

[Dinger]

OK if I can I guess that would be a bad thing?
so blew in valve and can blow through it.

[mudski]

OK if I can I guess that would be a bad thing?
So wind it in until I can not?

If you can, the boost won't rise, any boost pressure will just pass through the ball in the dawes. Wind it in atleast half way and then wind the needle valve in also, right in. (To shut the vacuum supply right off) Then start the car up, and unwind(open the vacuum supply) the needle valve until the rod drops. If it doesn't drop, I would think it's either incorrect plumbing or the actuator is stuffed. Think.

[Dinger]

If you can, the boost won't rise, any boost pressure will just pass through the ball in the dawes. Wind it in atleast half way and then wind the needle valve in also, right in. (To shut the vacuum supply right off) Then start the car up, and unwind(open the vacuum supply) the needle valve until the rod drops. If it doesn't drop, I would think it's either incorrect plumbing or the actuator is stuffed. Think.

Cheers mate
I will go and give it a crack.
I have double checked the plumbing a few times against the instructions you emailed the other day.
thanks again for that

[Dinger]

56542
So this is the set up I think it shows all the parts in the set up.
I can only get 5 psi out of it at the moment.
I put a new spring in today (thanks for the fast shipping Mudski)
I will keep fighting the gremlin just posting an update.

[mudski]

O.k First thing I notice is the dawes is almost upside down, sort of, lol. I may not affect anything but its best to have the dawes sitting vertically. It just eliminates the possibility of the ball not seating itself right. Next is the clear plastic hose and the Y piece you have, those plastic pieces are prone to crack and leak. The plastic hose I take it goes to a boost sensor or something?
Can you take a pic of the other side of the intake hose? The needle valve is hiding the plumbing behind there.

[Dinger]

565435654456545
Interesting about the dawes valve being upside down I have moved it and included a picture to ensure it is more correct.
Also the other side of the intake showing the needle valve.
You are correct the clear hose does go to the boost guage
Also I see your point about the plastic Y piece I will go get a brass one on the weekend.

[mudski]

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=56543&stc=1http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=56544&stc=1http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=56545&stc=1
Interesting about the dawes valve being upside down I have moved it and included a picture to ensure it is more correct.
Also the other side of the intake showing the needle valve.
You are correct the clear hose does go to the boost guage
Also I see your point about the plastic Y piece I will go get a brass one on the weekend.

The black hose on the needle valve. Is this going into the single port next to the vacuum control solenoid? Looks like it is... Your only getting 5psi now? what happens when you screw the Dawes in more?
With the car running, pinch the blue hose on the needle valve and tell me if the rod on the actuator moves upwards. It should, then tell me how far it drops down. This maybe hard to tell. Ideally as a starting point you want it to drop around 10mm.

[mudski]

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=56542&stc=1


The hose with the green dampener on it. Where this going? Into the small T which the needle valve and dawes go to?

[Dinger]

The black hose on the needle valve. Is this going into the single port next to the vacuum control solenoid? Looks like it is... Your only getting 5psi now? what happens when you screw the Dawes in more?
With the car running, pinch the blue hose on the needle valve and tell me if the rod on the actuator moves upwards. It should, then tell me how far it drops down. This maybe hard to tell. Ideally as a starting point you want it to drop around 10mm.

Correct the hose goes to resonator next to the solenoid.
I will do you suggest with crimping the blue hose tomorrow and let you know.
I have not had any movement in the actuator rod to date. But will give it a try and let you know.
If the actuator is stuffed it looks like it would be any easy switch with a new one?

[Dinger]

The hose with the green dampener on it. Where this going? Into the small T which the needle valve and dawes go to?

Correct to the t piece

[mudski]

Correct the hose goes to resonator next to the solenoid.
I will do you suggest with crimping the blue hose tomorrow and let you know.
I have not had any movement in the actuator rod to date. But will give it a try and let you know.
If the actuator is stuffed it looks like it would be any easy switch with a new one?

If no movement, wind you Dawes in further and try again. You can buy the actuators off the shelf. They are expensive, under $100 if i'm right. Never fitted one but I'd assume theres not much to it. You would just have to measure the rod length on your now and make sure its the same on the new unit.

[Dinger]

If no movement, wind you Dawes in further and try again. You can buy the actuators off the shelf. They are expensive, under $100 if i'm right. Never fitted one but I'd assume theres not much to it. You would just have to measure the rod length on your now and make sure its the same on the new unit.

Well I sucked it up and replaced the actuator. I now get all indications that the plumbing on the dawes/needle valves are correct. The actuator dropped when I opened the needle valve staight away.
Took the beast for a drive all good no limp mode at all. I am calling it phase 1 complete. I do get high egts close to 450c at 100km and 300c at 60km. And I am unable to pick up any boost reading. Although that I am sure is just a gauge problem

[threedogs]

now are you going to increase boost a bit more to lower the egts,
I put more boost into mine and egts stayed at 300 then I fiddled
with the needle to slow up the spool and egts went up again.
starting to think like RUMJAS that the needle valve near on closed is the spot to set it.
you could set your boost with the NV closed and go from there thats what Im toying with ATM

[Dinger]

Cheers 3dogs. So the more closed the needle the lower the egts?
Running 16 psi at 3000rpm. Needle is only two turns from closed. Dawes only has about 4 threads left so I will play with that a little to get it spot on.

[threedogs]

Im not saying the more closed the NV is the lower egts as all are different,
Im going to put as much boost as I can as I dont think mine will go into limp mode
if I get about 15 psi at 110kph that would be ok for me.
I dont like it when just off idle if I touch the throttle it'll go to 15psi
under moderate throttle input, its just a matter of playing around till you
find the "happy spot" lol,
Im going to keep 2 spanners and the NV allen key in the patrol and adjust and write down
any adjustments I do.

[Dinger]

Makes sense will do some adjustments and go for a spin.

[threedogs]

1/2 a turn at a time by the sounds of it you are nearlly there, keep at it
you'll turn that frown upside down trust me,,,, he he he

[Dinger]

Cheers mate.
Just did a 25km run 300c at 110km only got 6 psi dont think that should be a problem though. Was a pretty flat road.
Egt never went above 400 even up steep incline about 12 degree. So fairly confident it is in a good place.
I cant thank all that gave me advice enough. You guys are great.

[Dinger]

This is the actuator I removed. Looks nothing like to one I put on looks like it is from a 2.8.

[mudski]

Cheers mate.
Just did a 25km run 300c at 110km only got 6 psi dont think that should be a problem though. Was a pretty flat road.
Egt never went above 400 even up steep incline about 12 degree. So fairly confident it is in a good place.
I cant thank all that gave me advice enough. You guys are great.

110kph boost is too low mate. Get it to around 10-12 and your egts will drop more.

[Dinger]

110kph boost is too low mate. Get it to around 10-12 and your egts will drop more.

Cheers mate. Made some small adjustments got it to 9 psi at 110km. Max is 17psi it is not bouncing to 17 very stable and only if I give it a boot full. EGTs went down to 225c at 110km.

[threedogs]

Cheers mate. Made some small adjustments got it to 9 psi at 110km. Max is 17psi it is not bouncing to 17 very stable and only if I give it a boot full. EGTs went down to 225c at 110km.

Wow mine must be way off, back to fiddling lol

[Dinger]

Wow mine must be way off, back to fiddling lol

What does yours sit at?

[threedogs]

Flat road sitting on 100 ,[mine is an auto]
temp is about 320c

[Dinger]

Flat road sitting on 100 ,[mine is an auto]
temp is about 320c

Mine too.
Did another run today after a minor tweak and it has moved to 290c I pretty happy though.

[mudski]

Cheers mate. Made some small adjustments got it to 9 psi at 110km. Max is 17psi it is not bouncing to 17 very stable and only if I give it a boot full. EGTs went down to 225c at 110km.

Wind in your needle valve a tad more mate. Your egts are like mine now. Nice and cool.

[threedogs]

Mine too.
Did another run today after a minor tweak and it has moved to 290c I pretty happy though.

Is yours an auto or a manual? going to tweak mine abit today as well to see if I can get it better

[Dinger]

Is yours an auto or a manual? going to tweak mine abit today as well to see if I can get it better

Mine is auto.
As I said earlier I don't think I could have got this right without you and mudski