ZD30 Di replace with new or reconditioned?

[outback]

Well managed to cook the old ZD30s engine last Saturday. Was a nice 42 deg C for most of the trip, home to Adelaide.

Besides the why's how's etc; simple problem now is I need to replace the motor.

Besides that new viscous clutch for fan, replacing the radiator, the clutch and dual mass flywheel.
Heavy duty clutch and solid flywheel going in.

Also looking at the injector, water pump as well.
Hoses are new so not replacing them as yet.

So big question is do I go for a new ZD30 Di motor with NADS from scratch or think of a reconditioned one again with NADS.

Milage:136,000km.

[BigRAWesty]

Apart from the common rail what are the differences between the Di and crd??

Is it worth going a reco crd with nads?

[outback]

I had thought about that option
The two that springs to mind to cause issues
1. fuel feed pressure
2.ECU.

I am sure there are a few others to make life difficult.

[threedogs]

for me it would be down to price and which motor offers
the most warranty, crate or reco??

[Hodge]

Apart from the common rail what are the differences between the Di and crd??

Is it worth going a reco crd with nads?

Identical except the fuel system I believe. Same block. Also the intercooler is a little different and mounted differently.

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[happygu]

From some of the prices I have seen, a reco one is not that much less than a new one ..... I have seen prices less than $1k difference.

Not that I don't trust the quality of our engine rebuilders, but if that is still the case, then I would cough up for the new one

[Rock Trol]

Identical except the fuel system I believe. Same block. Also the intercooler is a little different and mounted differently.

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The block is the same in the two motors but the head is not. CRD has air intake on opposite side to DI. To change to crd will need the new intercooler, pump, injectors and a new ecu to control it. That is assuming you could use the old loom but not sure. Can you get short motor from Nissan?

[outback]

The block is the same in the two motors but the head is not. CRD has air intake on opposite side to DI. To change to crd will need the new intercooler, pump, injectors and a new ecu to control it. That is assuming you could use the old loom but not sure. Can you get short motor from Nissan?

Would seem too much of a mess to go CRD.

Short motor from Nissan, sure, when they have some in stock..

At present looks like a new motor via a slow boat from Japan and a long wait.

Seems i will have to drag out the "back up" unit and do the minor repairs and use that. At least that is only belts, fan, batteries and tyres. And petrol!!

[Rock Trol]

A new DI motor from Nissan will incorporate all the upgrades to the zd30 oiling system. I was told that in 2005 they upgraded the oil spraying system under the pistons to help cool them. Made it less grenade prone.

[mudski]

This might be of some help....
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Patrol-Engine-ZD30-Full-Reco-/251836042782?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item3aa29 90e1e&clk_rvr_id=783562369934&rmvSB=true

[threedogs]

This might be of some help....
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Patrol-Engine-ZD30-Full-Reco-/251836042782?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item3aa2990e1e&clk_rvr_id=783562369934&rmvSB=true

looks cheap enough but very wary of rattle gun specials,
ceramic coat your turbo housing to eliminate "hot spots"

[paulyg]

If the DI and CRD are mostly the same , then why do we limit EGT to 550 on the DI and 600 on the CRD?

[outback]

This might be of some help....
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Patrol-Engine-ZD30-Full-Reco-/251836042782?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item3aa2990e1e&clk_rvr_id=783562369934&rmvSB=true

Thanks. Seen a few of these but the words "local pick up only" makes it a very expensive engine. Adelaide to Tamworth..


Think I will wait and suffer the old Mac with its petrol guzzler 4.5 motor.

[the evil twin]

If the DI and CRD are mostly the same , then why do we limit EGT to 550 on the DI and 600 on the CRD?

Those numbers are only arbitary guesstimates not limits as such.
But anyway...
The CRD's have a total different ECU, Fuel delivery and EGR systems and minor changes to charge air delivery that are known.
There may also be other changes that Mr Nissan hasn't chosen to share

[happygu]

The other thing to consider is that a new motor from Nissan will be the latest Di version, with the updates from the early issues ..... can you be guaranteed that a reco one is the same ..... you would think it would, but who knows ....

[outback]

Well reason for cooking - very small cracking head. Possible been there for ages.

My patrol according to Mr Nissan is a GU IV, 20o5 (Australia) build dec 2004.

Anyway for cost issues little between a recon or new. So I am going new.

Its just the wait.

I would have thought Mr Nissan would still have spare DZ30 di motors in Australia. But apparently not.

Also I am dubious on getting any 'new' motors from fleaby. No Idea which version they are.

In the mean time I have to deal with an MRI as I have some pinched nerves in my neck, (besides Mr Nissan), and get the old Maverick on the road.

Besides a 4.5 petrol motor its got the 5.5inch wheels.. All fun.


Do I need to have the flames if I run 16x5.5s on the Mav? broke the front passenger side one so if i don't need them its easy to take them off.

[Hodge]

I would have thought Mr Nissan would still have spare DZ30 di motors in Australia. But apparently not.


The guy at work I mentioned in your original thread that just about starved his off oil due to the pickup pump failing is now going through the same process.
It seems the engine wasn't saved after all, and he has bent piston / crank rods ??
He was told, 2 months wait? What ETA did you get from nissan?
Can't believe they don't have any in Aus. Probably ran out as they're replacing them all the time.

[happygu]

Can't believe they don't have any in Aus. Probably ran out as they're replacing them all the time.

I did have that immediate thought too, but think it is a little harsh .......;)

[Rock Trol]

What about getting you motor rebuilt? Maybe you can specify better pistons etc. if they are available. You could also avoid the oil pump falling off issue by getting the proper amount of Loctite on the bolts instead of relying on Mr Nissans robot to fuik it up.
This would depend on having a decent mechanic in your area that you trust.

[outback]

He was told, 2 months wait? What ETA did you get from nissan?


They are still waiting on Mr Nissan to come u with and ETA, but there were hints of 2 odd months ... (hysterical smily laughing).........



Can't believe they don't have any in Aus. Probably ran out as they're replacing them all the time.

I would say that may be correct at one point, but if they don't have spare crates seems many issues are now sort of sorted. (more hysterical laughing)..

[outback]

What about getting you motor rebuilt? Maybe you can specify better pistons etc. if they are available. You could also avoid the oil pump falling off issue by getting the proper amount of Loctite on the bolts instead of relying on Mr Nissans robot to fuik it up.
This would depend on having a decent mechanic in your area that you trust.

Already thought of that.. But i am sceptical re existing block anyway. If the block/cylinders were not stuffed I would have looked at new better ones. but at present its up in the air. Anyway as far as the oil pump goes that can be sorted even with a new motor. Though I have only heard re this on the early model motors.

May be wrong but just an addition to add to issues.

[Hodge]

I did have that immediate thought too, but think it is a little harsh .......;)

Extremely possible, it's a reality mate.


Anyway as far as the oil pump goes that can be sorted even with a new motor. Though I have only heard re this on the early model motors.

Nah mate happens throughout. Even CRD's, search the other nissan forum, many threads there about this issue on CRDs too.
Bolts coming loose or something as not torqued up properly.
Fixed by taking sump off, along with the gear box. Still a decent job.
When I spoke to 4x4 obsession recently about gutting my engine to fix the coolant issue, fix the manifold and replace the turbo, he said when they fix the coolant leaks, they routinely check the oil pickup too, since the sump is off anyway ( as well as most of the engine).

[outback]

How i am beginning to HATE Mr Nissan.

Looks like its hard to find a NEW ZD30 motor for my vehicle.

Found some on fleaby, but most seem to be related the the GU I - III . Nothing for the 2005 GU IV. Anyway still looking.

Seems I get to rebuild my current motor.

One comment I got, Nissan don't make the ZD 30 Di anymore so you are left with rebuilds.
Well a 2001 rebuild is not a 2004 rebuild unless all mods Mr Nissan did are included.

Not happy..

I might even start serious looking at THAT the brand, Toyota.

[Rock Trol]

Pretty poor form from Nissan. I did not realise that Nissan stopped making DI's. I know they stopped selling them 7 years ago but they are the most likely to fail. Looks like they want you to buy a new Patrol from them instead. Sounds like their chances aren't good if their motor only lasts 136000 km.

[outback]

Pretty poor form from Nissan. I did not realise that Nissan stopped making DI's. I know they stopped selling them 7 years ago but they are the most likely to fail. Looks like they want you to buy a new Patrol from them instead. Sounds like their chances aren't good if their motor only lasts 136000 km.

To some extent i am not blaming Nissan re the motor, just the lack of new replacements.

Why not the motor:
Was it a case it was loosing coolant by normal evaporation and i did not look, or was it a ces of cracked head and i still did not check the coolant..

I just had the vehicle peeped for a trip 3000ks before this happened. Som its hard to tell.

Why i don't want a recon motor ref this:
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?32220-15-000KMs-on-rebuilt-motor-full-NADS-and-still-goes-bang-(

As mentioned in that thread I don't want a motor older than my current one as it will have NISSAN ISSUES. It would be better to do a recon on my current motor, not a replacement. that is also the verdict of the mechanics doing the work. Though best option is a new latest Ni$$an create one.

I will find out this week what the end options are. Hopefully.

I can upgrade to a common rail but the is $$$, or even a 4.2 diesel but that is BIG $$$$$$$..

[outback]

OK some updates and advice.

Patrol ZD30 di, 136000 kms

Head cracked lost coolant. Cooked motor.
About 6000m back changed the glow plugs from dead ceramics, out of 4 only 2 were working , others lost tips etc), to metal. Not got around to doing whether. 2 glow plugs seem ok 21 slightly work, one 50% loss metal.

Piston tops all clean and not pitted/damaged, even though the ceramic glow plugs had lost material.
Bores: scoured in places due to heating issued.

Haven't fully inspected the head but seems only one crack. Not checked where that occurred. Anyway sufficient to suck coolant not system and drain 3l out.

Everything else actually clean, thanks to EGR block and NADS.

Still sorting out new engine. Seems some what difficult as they are scarce, almost like hens teeth.

Now ADVICE:

If you have not done it yet do the glow plug timer MOD. Be that will ceramics or metal. Change then about every 50- 80K, especially the ceramics timer or not.

Next mods I am looking at are:
1. a low coolant indicator in the over flow tank..
2. additional venting of engine bay.
3. what ever i have left out.


OK this is costing heaps as i am doing other changes but I still think the DZ30 is a reasonable motor. It has issues but so do all motors id pushed hard and beyond capacity.

The head cracking is or seems to be an issue so worth trying to find a way of monitoring the issue. Working on that.

[Donny1]

Can you still get hold of the crate engine?? Nissan said they stopped selling them a few months ago.
Also what are the issues with fitting the 4.2 diesel instead??

[Bigcol]

what I dont understand is........

if soo soo many Di's were Grenading, how come its soo expensive to rebuild

surely they would be cheaper, because "so many" of them went Bang

[Hodge]

Bigcol I don't think many people repair or rebuild. Most simply do a conversion to something.

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[jono6974]

You have me rather worried now. I have a 2005 3.0 Di. It has done 158 000km without any issues and not yet got around to doing any mods.
Catch can is number 1 on my list, just need to make some time for it.
I thought at this mileage it would still be fine, but yours has got me rather concerned.
Maybe more reason to get organised and do some NADS.

[mudnut]

As a matter of interest,
does anyone know if
it is possible to source
the newer CRD block
and fit the DI head and
other components?

[Hodge]

I don't see why not mudnut. As it is a newer engine meeting new emission rules. You'd have to bring over a few things from the CRD donor. Like ECU,intercooler... I'm sure theres a few more things.

[mudnut]

Sorry for the hijack.
Pardon my ignorance,
but why, would you need
the ECU if you used the
DI engine control?

[Hodge]

Sorry for the hijack.
Pardon my ignorance,
but why, would you need
the ECU if you used the
DI engine control?

Well the ECU controls other functions. For example the boost through the vaccum solenoid. It also controls the aircon clutch, disengages it when engine is over certain temperature or under certain load.
On a CRD it controls much more. Controls the injection pump, EGR valve, etc...
Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, but without ECU these grenades cannot function.

[Rock Trol]

If only using the crd block but the Di head then old ecu is needed. If planning to run as crd then new ecu is needed. But I an not entirely sure if both blocks are 100% compatible.

[mudnut]

So if Mr Nissan is still
making the CRD block,
then it would probably
be the best way to go
if you aren't keen on
acquiring a reco DI
wouldn't it? Has it
been done before?

[Hodge]

I reckon it would cost an astronomical fortune to buy a new block / engine from Nissan. I haven't priced one up or heard about ones pricing but, if general pricing from nissan parts is anything to go by, well I'd love to see this figure.

[Hodge]

If only using the crd block but the Di head then old ecu is needed. If planning to run as crd then new ecu is needed. But I an not entirely sure if both blocks are 100% compatible.

The CRD block has a completely different IP bracket / assembly. The VP44 would not fit on a CRD block, by looking and comparing them in the manual. Vp44 is much more complex.

[Rock Trol]

The CRD block has a completely different IP bracket / assembly. The VP44 would not fit on a CRD block, by looking and comparing them in the manual. Vp44 is much more complex.

Good pick up Hodge. Looks like rebuilding the old block I the only way to go. If its a really old engine then maybe getting a late model Di block from the wreckers is the go. It would have updated internals such as oil system.

[scotty83]

Jono6974. I will probably regret typing this as I am about to do a Simpson desert crossing but mine has just clicked over 200k and still going strong. I fitted the catch can, boost limiter (dawes value) and boost gauge at 140k or so, and have recently 198k fitted a secondary fuel filter and lift pump.

One word of advice get your intercooler off and clean it out if you haven't (decreased or unleaded petrol, making sure to rinse and dry thoroughly before refitting). Also check/clean the intake (butterfly) vent just after it. You will be surprised how dirty it is from the egr.

[mudski]

what I dont understand is........

if soo soo many Di's were Grenading, how come its soo expensive to rebuild

surely they would be cheaper, because "so many" of them went Bang
They're(mechanics) all enjoying the cash ride mate...

You have me rather worried now. I have a 2005 3.0 Di. It has done 158 000km without any issues and not yet got around to doing any mods.
Catch can is number 1 on my list, just need to make some time for it.
I thought at this mileage it would still be fine, but yours has got me rather concerned.
Maybe more reason to get organised and do some NADS.
Dont be too worried mate. Your motor is not in the year range where this was so prevalent. The chances of it happening to you would be very minimal. Plus there is still thousands of 3ltrs around being used by a grey nomad to drag a caravan around oz without issues. Its just one of those things that gets all the publicity when some thing goes wrong. You dont hear of many that dont have issues though do you?
Getting the nads done is a good idea though, not just for the said reason. You will get so much more out of your motor with it.
I am starting to sell more of the nads kits to Triton, Navara, V8 Yota owners etc etc now. Many others are now seeing the benefits of the nads.

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