Need some advise or other options

[macca]

I have a roof top tent and made a frame to take the kayak above that.

The frame is pivoted on the side and tilts that way so we can open the tent with out actually taking the kayak off the roof.

What I have is a prototype and does work, it has done for 18 months.

Now it is proven, in the concept, I need to make it work better.

Opening (or tilting it over) is a bit ordinary. Trying to control the weight is a problem.

So I plan to fit one of these;

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/New-OZ950S12V-DC-Linear-Actuator-3000N-Speed-7mm-s-350mm-Stroke-Fast-Shipping-/141485114858?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&hash=item20f12b85ea

Its an overkill but is the only one I can find with a decent IP rating IP65, everything else is IP54, not weatherproof.

Using an air ram is no good as it wont control lowering the load.

Do some of you have a better idea of what I can use.

Sorry I don't have a photo.

[threedogs]

Maybe look at some of the pulley systems that RHINO use as a Tinnie launcher.
Nice and controlled either getting it off the roof or putting it back,
Matbe their rear system could be modded for the side.

[macca]

I haven't described what I'm trying to do well enough.

Getting the kayak on and off the rack is easy, its tilting the rack and kayak sideways I am trying to control the movement of.

The kayak ends up beside the RTT still attached to the rack. faark I need a photo.

[macca]

Might give you an idea

[threedogs]

just throwing stuff out there, and yes thats what I thought you mean't
Is it possible to re do the hinge mounts so they are geared you could use a starter motor [holden] if geared right to lower it.
that just requires sorting out ratios so it lowers in a controlled way, Even a wiper motor might work.
even a small ATV winch motor???????

what weight we talking about 40-50kgs???
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Stroke-length-6-12-18-12-24V-Linear-actuator-1500N-Electric-Motors-auto-/261355552308?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&var=&hash=item3cda013e34
These are affordable and IP65 rated, I've had them in my watch list for ages

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/330lbs-Multi-functional-Linear-Actuator-motor-12V-24V-for-solar-electric-auto/141495072443?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%2 6asc%3D20140106155344%26meid%3D93c09b2fcb2d439289c 06adda083bc26%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26 sd%3D261355552308&rt=nc

[liftlid]

What about making a place on the frame for a pole to slide or mount and use it as a leaver, like a seesaw

[BigRAWesty]

First up. How much weight are you trying to lift?? A single 50kg kayak or bigger??
Is it possible to simply add a gas strut and maybe pole to pull it down from vertical position??

Imo that actuator will be sweet. And work well once you work out positions to get it to finish where you want.

But taking it one step further did you want to make it completely swing over so you can simply lift and drop the kayak from the rack?? That's simple too aswell once you have the actuators..

[paulyg]

Some camper trailers have boat carriers that tilt to the side, to allow you to open the tent without removing the boat, how do the work? can you adapt that to what you want to do?

[BigRAWesty]

Also I'd questions that 3000n force as all the other listing of his are either 300 or 750n

[Avo]

something like this hey matey
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0kD5HZ-NAo

[macca]

First up. How much weight are you trying to lift?? A single 50kg kayak or bigger??
Is it possible to simply add a gas strut and maybe pole to pull it down from vertical position??

Imo that actuator will be sweet. And work well once you work out positions to get it to finish where you want.

But taking it one step further did you want to make it completely swing over so you can simply lift and drop the kayak from the rack?? That's simple too aswell once you have the actuators..

Now that is an idea with possibilities, I like it!


Also I'd questions that 3000n force as all the other listing of his are either 300 or 750n

700n seems heaps, I reckon as well. Kayak is about 50 - 60kg so not huge weight just the leverage I guess.

[macca]

something like this hey matey
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0kD5HZ-NAo

This and what Biggqwesty has suggested has got me thinking

[threedogs]

700nm is about 70kg I think

[BigRAWesty]

700nm is about 70kg I think

Yep pretty close.
Yea similar Neil but I'm thinking even more simpler with the actuator it'll be push button only.
I'll do up a sketch later tonight for you.

[macca]

That would be great thanks.

[BigRAWesty]

Ok hopefully this makes sense.
By adding a link into the pivot system it allows the actuator to fully extend and what is moving move double the length.

[BigRAWesty]

Of course not to scale lol

[dave97]

How much clearance do you have from your tent to the frame work? May limit some options not sure on your exact set up but know what it's like to come up with an idea that would work only to discover you don't have the room in practice

Not just packed up what about once the tent is set up will it impact on space

[macca]

Ok hopefully this makes sense.
By adding a link into the pivot system it allows the actuator to fully extend and what is moving move double the length.

Interesting concept, that will have me scratching the noggin for a while.

Thanks for a great idea.

With TD's weather proof actuators there could be a result here.

[macca]

How much clearance do you have from your tent to the frame work? May limit some options not sure on your exact set up but know what it's like to come up with an idea that would work only to discover you don't have the room in practice

Not just packed up what about once the tent is set up will it impact on space

Frame sits in front of and behind the RTT. There is room.

To do this with an actuator and linkages will take some sorting but I do think it is a great concept and will possibly load the kayaks from the side, an idea I like.

[BigRAWesty]

Again not to scale but a bit more of a detailed sketch of how I imagine the setup
So the lever setup when collapsed will sit nearly inside each other.

[macca]

I like it, now to add some dimensions LOL.

[BigRAWesty]

I like it, now to add some dimensions LOL.

Yea well that is a big one. The actuator length and strength will be the main items. But that really is determined by rack width.
Throw us some dimensions if you like and I'll work out some lengths etched for you.

[macca]

Been giving it a lot of thought.
wa489 posted a camper trailer link that has a carrier which is simple to use and maintain long term.
Set up is a bit complicated and the strut possibly a little pricey.
The strut setup used took a little nutting out, but I think I'm on to it.
I need to source a strut of a suitable length and able to handle the load.
What the camper mob use is probably OK to use as our double kayak is close in weight.
See how I go.
Can't rotate the photo sorry.

[P4trol]

Have you thought of incorporating a counterweight?

Something like a telescoping pole, and a weight that is placed on when you want to open. The weight would be ideally something you would always take when you take the kayak.

The further the pole extends, the greater the effect of the weight.

[macca]

Have you thought of incorporating a counterweight?

Something like a telescoping pole, and a weight that is placed on when you want to open. The weight would be ideally something you would always take when you take the kayak.

The further the pole extends, the greater the effect of the weight.

A counterweight would need to be something we already carry.
Can't get my head around the concept, but will mull over it.
Fresh eyes see solutions to problems differently, thanks for the idea.

[BigRAWesty]

I recon your onto a winner.
Having that low point will bring the rack down lower for you.
And if you want it closer to the ground then simply move the pivot point further down the side.

[BigRAWesty]

And with that boat rack those struts work as lift aids at both ends of the travel.

[P4trol]

[QUOTE=macca;576768]A counterweight would need to be something we already carry.
Can't get my head around the concept, but will mull over it.
Fresh eyes see solutions to problems differently, thanks for the idea.[/QUOTE

You know the principle with 4wding:

If an item doesn't have two or more uses, it doesn't come. I used to have a set of roll up recovery tracks that I also used as the camp shower floor mat.

So there's no good having the weight part of the counterweight that has no second purpose. Worse still have it travel on the roof.

Maybe you would use a block splitter, or the bag you keep a drag chain in etc. You may carry that or something similar already.

Take the idea, modify or discard!

[macca]

I have a roof top tent and made a frame to take the kayak above that.

The frame is pivoted on the side and tilts that way so we can open the tent with out actually taking the kayak off the roof.

What I have is a prototype and does work, it has done for 18 months.

Now it is proven, in the concept, I need to make it work better.

Opening (or tilting it over) is a bit ordinary. Trying to control the weight is a problem.

So I plan to fit one of these;

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/New-OZ950S12V-DC-Linear-Actuator-3000N-Speed-7mm-s-350mm-Stroke-Fast-Shipping-/141485114858?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&hash=item20f12b85ea

Its an overkill but is the only one I can find with a decent IP rating IP65, everything else is IP54, not weatherproof.

Using an air ram is no good as it wont control lowering the load.

Do some of you have a better idea of what I can use.

Sorry I don't have a photo.

I have tried so many different ways to do this, using gear I had here.
Had 4 400n gas struts and it over-centered and busted the ends out of them with the kayak on what a fup.
Bit the bullet and bought a 3000n electric actuator, should have done that from the start it works a treat.
With a bit of luck it should all be good for Easter.
Getter there...

[threedogs]

3000n is about 300kg is that about right,
Good to hear you got it sorted I few head aches I bet

[macca]

I don't understand the calcs for newtons, the leverage amplifies the weight that is on the strut.
3000 is overkill no doubt but it works so i'll see how it goes.
Those motor drives are so smooth.