ZD30 Blown Piston

[HV2002]

Hi all ... well i think she has popped a piston. she is a 2002 ZD30DDi regular service 153098Km monster Ic, provent, no nads (was just about to start) what happened: wet to shop picked up a boost gauge hoped back in started her she gave a grinding noise like the starter motor didn't engage properly straight off with the key sat for a bit, then she started and blew out a gut full of smoke and idled rough.
History: i changed the glow plugs back in August for metal tipped, plug 3 was missing tip

54271 also cleaned throttle body 54272

So i took her straight to my mechanic he wouldn't give a definitive answer but offered to pull the motor and have a look (not cheep) but the look in his eyes said it was blown.

so she starts runs as she warmes up the smoke increases and some oil spits out the filler
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so i have found a reco and talking to the guy he said i should replace the turbo and have the injector pump re-calibrated is this right or are they trying to suck more money out of me

any advice appreciated thanks

[Dales300exc]

Alot of companies that recondition will require fuel system overhauls, radiator cleaning and at minimum turbo inspections to maintain warranty.

Id still do a compression test first before jumping to any conclusions.

[the evil twin]

If that smoke is as white as it seems in the pics you have dropped compression on at least 1 cylinder (atomised, unburnt diesel mist is white, oil is blue).

The missing tip on the Glow Plug had only one place to go and that is in the cylinder and they create all sorts of hassle then.

[HV2002]

Thanks guys i will check compression and see how bad it is also start hunting for a turbo and injector pump

[megatexture]

She's looking quite blocked up , When was the Provent fitted?

[HV2002]

provent went on in August and cleaned out throttle body at the same time, but didn't have a chance to clean the intake manifold so it was only half a job. although she has been running relay well since then

[big_fletch]

Out of curiosity when u changed too metal tipped glow plugs did you change the glow plug timer too an aftermarket unit at all?

[HV2002]

yep set up new timer from Jaycar running about 20 seconds on glow

[threedogs]

Bummer I feel for you bro, which are better the ceramic or metal tipped glow plugs?.
Does that timer mod actually do anything?

[HV2002]

hi TD. i changed to metal plugs because they are not supposed to drop their tips like the ceramic ones and the timer stops the long after glow from the ECU. unfortunately i think i did this to late as i already lost the tip in pot 3, and now i thank that's the holed piston.

[SG1]

Ouch and feel for you.

Brings a good point that I have been thinking on about for some time with metal glow plug tips, if the metal ones drop of then is it going to cause more damage than a ceramic tip falling off? Guess they both will cause some damage but how much and maybe you would get away with some dents in a piston instead of hole if it was ceramic?

From the way I read it, are you saying the metal glow plug tip had already fallen of before you done the glow plug timer mod?

[happygu]

Ouch and feel for you.

Brings a good point that I have been thinking on about for some time with metal glow plug tips, if the metal ones drop of then is it going to cause more damage than a ceramic tip falling off? Guess they both will cause some damage but how much and maybe you would get away with some dents in a piston instead of hole if it was ceramic?

From the way I read it, are you saying the metal glow plug tip had already fallen of before you done the glow plug timer mod?

SG1,

It is the other way around ... they come standard with the Ceramic Tip Glowplugs, and people are replacing them with standard metal ones.

I think the ceramic ones are supposed to handle the higher temperatures better and for longer, and help reduce emissions.

Mic

[4bye4]

I have little to do with glow plugs but I know a lot about ceramics as we use ceramic seals and pistons in high pressure pumps. My input is that if you do get ceramic in the cylinder ( because it fell off the glow plug) it is like throwing a buct full of sand into a jet engine. Your bore, pistons and rings will be scored instantly. There will be little or no compression in seconds. bore will have to be honed or even replaced.

[HV2002]

That's right Mic, the metal replaces the ceramic. the standard ceramic plugs are prone to cracking and dropping tips, this tip then bounces around denting and cracking your piston and as 4bye4 said can disintegrate causing wear to your bore etc.. or it just punches a hole in the piston. yes ceramic can take more heat than metal hence the timer mod to only provide glow power for starting and eliminate the 3 to 5 minute after glow provided by the ECU program.

[HV2002]

up date ... so iv'e been doing some research and the white smoke can be either un-burnt fuel or water, the smoke does not have a diesel smell to it but when i place my hand at the exhaust it feels slightly damp/humid, i am hoping this may be more of a head..gasket blow out rather than piston. what are your thoughts
i am going to do the compression and leak down test next weekend, that should tell me more

[4bye4]

If its water in the system, might be a blown head gasket. Compression and leak down should show this. You might also test the coolant for hydrocarbons (fuel).

[HV2002]

im hoping its only the head. how do you test the coolant for hydrocarbons

[threedogs]

I'm pretty sure any radiator or workshop should have the machine to analize your exhaust fumes

[HV2002]

thanks TD i will look into it

[4bye4]

im hoping its only the head. how do you test the coolant for hydrocarbons

Sorry mate missed the post until now. Don't know the answer as in I have never done it myself, but I have heard of workshops doing it. I think its just a litmus paper type test, like they put a sample onto a paper and it changes colour or something. Can talk to someone on Monday if somebody else doesn't come up with an answer in the meantime.

[4bye4]

Just found this on the net. A bit like a breathaliser for radiators. Don't know where you can get it done though.

"The most effective and accurate diagnostic test to determine if the cylinder head gasket is sealing combustion gasses is to check for the presence of combustion gasses in the engine coolant. This must be done with the engine warm and the radiator cap removed. This can be a bit tricky so be careful when warming the engine with the radiator cap removed or removing the cap when the engine is warm. With the radiator cap off and the engine warm, place a funnel where the radiator cap would normally be. Start the engine and let it run. Watch the coolant as it circulates. It is normal to see the presence of some bubbles in the cooling system, but the presence of lots of bubbles in the cooling system may be a sign of cylinder head gasket failure. Be very careful when running the engine with the radiator cap removed. Hot coolant may be expelled from the radiator unexpectedly.

With the engine running, a tool (pictured) is used to draw fumes from the cooling system through a chemical that checks for the presence of carbon monoxide (CO) in the cooling system. Carbon monoxide will only be present if the head gasket has failed or the cylinder head itself is cracked. The chemical starts off blue in color, but turns green or yellow in the presence of carbon monoxide. This test is known as a “block check."

Another method is to use the gas analyzer that the shop uses to check vehicle emissions. When this machine is used, the presence of hydrocarbon (HC) gasses escaping from the coolant will be measured and if the HC reading is over 50 PPM, then the headgasket is leaking. Always make sure the reading is noted on the repair order whenever this method is used."

[4bye4]

Also try this site.
http://repairpal.com/how-to-test-for-head-gasket-failure

[HV2002]

thanks for the info 4bye4 i will do some reading and add this to my tests... your a champion thanks again

[threedogs]

Maybe you could invert an empty coke bottle and observe the coolant through that

[nissannewby]

Diesels don't produce carbon monoxide so you will need to make sure you are using the correct apparatus for the diesel. These are available but not as common as the ones described above.

[HV2002]

Ok so I pulled out the starter motor yesterday to see if it caused the original grinding noise when she first started smoking and I'm not Shaw if this is worn or worn out

54819



54820



54821

Your thoughts please


Also i found the 3 small bolts on the drive face were slightly loose, 1/2 turn to finger tight

[threedogs]

if thats the leading edge on those gears looks like it would be hard to engage
loose bolts its all adding up

[HV2002]

Thanks TD, so starter motor on the shopping list and we'l see what else i can add after the compression test tomorrow

[threedogs]

Cant you just buy that gear???
Plus what does the other gear look like

[HV2002]

Hi all finally got to do a compression test results are:
1) 360
2) 280
3) 265
4) 330

so i think this shows a gasket blowout between 2 & 3 i also have coolant blowing out G-plug 3. so off with the head

Question: how heavy is the head, do i need a engine hoist or can me and a mate lift it out ... also anyone know of a good how-to thread for head removal, i got the Gregorys but some real world experience would be great

[HV2002]

Need some help guys
i am trying to remove the timing chain but cant loosen the top cam sprocket its supper tight ... is there a trick to undoing it

55573

[threedogs]

Would you shock it first ,by giving it a "tap" with a hammer

[Rumcajs]

Need some help guys
i am trying to remove the timing chain but cant loosen the top cam sprocket its supper tight ... is there a trick to undoing it

55573

I dunno, I undo things like these with impact air gun. If you can lock the flywheel than large enough breaker bar should help too.

Regards

[HV2002]

Thanks guys....impact gun would be the go if I had one ..might try the hammer TD..other than that it's down to brute strength and a big assed breaker bar

[threedogs]

You need to "crack" it if you only have a brako bar.
short and fast, buy tapping it with a hammer to shock it'
you'll break the seal of what ever thread liquid was used

[the evil twin]

Thanks guys....impact gun would be the go if I had one ..might try the hammer TD..other than that it's down to brute strength and a big assed breaker bar

If your budget doesn't stretch to an air impact set up...

Years ago I bought one of the Ebay 12 Volt rattle guns primarily for undoing wheel nuts.
IMHO they are very good value for money at $50 and the gun got so much use around various vehicles on suspension etc I am now on my 2nd one and don't go bush without it

[threedogs]

If your budget doesn't stretch to an air impact set up...

Years ago I bought one of the Ebay 12 Volt rattle guns primarily for undoing wheel nuts.
IMHO they are very good value for money at $50 and the gun got so much use around various vehicles on suspension etc I am now on my 2nd one and don't go bush without it

Are you referring to the Kangaroo creek import 12v style rattle gun that winds up then thump

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/DC-12V-Impact-Wrench-Rattle-Gun-Driver-Torque-Tools-Air-ATVs-Electric-AU-STOCK-/141439090618?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item20ee6d3fba

[HV2002]

12V gun sounds the go

[HV2002]

time and budget leaves me with a breaker bar and hammer ..LOL

[the evil twin]

Are you referring to the Kangaroo creek import 12v style rattle gun that winds up then thump

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/DC-12V-Impact-Wrench-Rattle-Gun-Driver-Torque-Tools-Air-ATVs-Electric-AU-STOCK-/141439090618?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item20ee6d3fba

Yes, haven't found a bolt yet they won't move including those "incredible hulk" torque bolts in the diffs


time and budget leaves me with a breaker bar and hammer ..LOL

'K... but I would def would recommend one when you can...

[threedogs]

I swear by those 12v rattle guns not as fancy as say an 18v gun but good and reliable plus they are rebuildable.
I changed the OE sockets cause they were Shite for decent impact ones. As its way too hard for me to use a
wheel brace MY 12v rattle gun is awesome.

Great for off road if you have a stubborn wheel nut, as ET said never failed me yet, always in the Patrol

[the evil twin]

I swear by those 12v rattle guns not as fancy as say an 18v gun but good and reliable plus they are rebuildable.
I changed the OE sockets cause they were Shite for decent impact ones.

Yeah the sockets are absolute crap and I did the same IE replaced them with quality Impact Sockets from the 'bits n pieces rack' at Covs.

Didn't even know mine was rebuildable.
Mine gave me a bit of warning so when it eventually expired I just chucked it as I had already got another.

[HV2002]

went round and borrowed a rattle gun from a mate and the b..sted still wont budge .. hoping its a weak gun (Black Ridge 310Nm) will try to grt my hands on a bigger one

[HV2002]

got a better gun and the timing chain is off ...when i removed the sprocket i found the AA, BB, marks were not aligned although the TDC and chain markings were in the correct placement ... does this matter on removal or are the AA, BB, markings only for re-assembly

55599

[HV2002]

well the head is off and had quick look at things. I have the standard cracks around all the glow-plug holes and also between the intake and exhaust ports on 2 and 3.
and there is a crack in 3 and 4 piston. not happy Bang Head...will clean things up and have a better look tomorrow

[Dales300exc]

Timing marks are only for assembly really. If you keep rotating eventually they will line up again. With take a fair few rotations haha.

[HV2002]

Thanks Dale .... think i will be doing a rebuild or reco swap depending on time and funds

[threedogs]

Yeah the sockets are absolute crap and I did the same IE replaced them with quality Impact Sockets from the 'bits n pieces rack' at Covs.

Didn't even know mine was rebuildable.
Mine gave me a bit of warning so when it eventually expired I just chucked it as I had already got another.

If anything fails give the guy at Kangaroo Creek imports a bell.
He sent me a switch when mine failed after ten or so years,
Great out bush especially if the tyre mob have rattled the living
begeeza out of your wheel nuts for fear of them coming loose.
@2002 it might be the way the power is delivered, my 12v gun winds up then thumps ,
then winds up again and thumps eventually it will loosen.
Out with the CRC or similar, even Freezo
see you got it off ok, thats a lot of cracks were you using/losing coolant

[HV2002]

she was slowly losing coolant but no sign of smoke till she went

[threedogs]

High on my list is a water temp gauge, problem is where to put it.
Being important I think in front of the speedo cluster in a single pod
might be the go.

[HV2002]

that's one gauge that will go in first as well as a low coolant censer and full nads
any recommendations for good temp gauges