2 core versus 3 core radiators

[Bloodyaussie]

I am interested in the difference in 2 and 3 core radiators and have been told that 3 core are really only any good for towing and that with a lot of 4wding they clog up to easily.

I am looking at a copper/brass job but am unsure which way to go.. I would like any input from people who have actually fitted one.

I have to sell an injector pump to pay for it (so want to make sure I get this right) and will be selling a near new alloy radiator ($80) that is shit...lol.

[Winnie]

I am interested in the difference in 2 and 3 core radiators and have been told that 3 core are really only any good for towing and that with a lot of 4wding they clog up to easily.

I am looking at a copper/brass job but am unsure which way to go.. I would like any input from people who have actually fitted one.

I have to sell an injector pump to pay for it (so want to make sure I get this right) and will be selling a near new alloy radiator ($80) that is shit...lol.

I have a 3 core and I reckon it's great. It dropped my temps heaps and only on a very long Hill on a hot day will the temp gauge get to half.

But I know a lot of people prefer two large cores, like the Aussie Desert Cooler brand.

[BigRAWesty]

I'm pretty sure no one has issues with copper 2 core radiators.
Unless your running a high power setup in the near future I'd just go a stock unit.

[threedogs]

You dont want your motor running too cool.
who knows maybe you will tow a camper in the future,
If I had the opportunity to up grade I think I would go a 3 core
Go speak to Norm [the big yid] at Aussie desert coolers he'll
have a radiator that suits your needs

[Bloodyaussie]

I have had concerns about running too cool as this can be an issue... as for going to Aussie desert coolers that is way out of my price range.

Thanks Winnie I did not know you bought a 3 core and good to hear from someone that has one.

How is it in the freezing cold months out your way?

[Ben-e-boy]

Running too cool? That is what a thermostat is for, it opens and closes to regulate engine temps.

IMO any turboed td42 should have a basic radiator upgrade.

[BigRAWesty]

Can you run to cold by upgrading the radiator?? Unless you change the thermostat to a different temp a bigger radiator should only aid in ridding high heat easier but still within stock engine temp ranges

[Bloodyaussie]

Running too cool? That is what a thermostat is for, it opens and closes to regulate engine temps.

IMO any turboed td42 should have a basic radiator upgrade.

But heavy duty 2 core or 3 core as I know with 3 core there are smaller channels as apposed to a 2 core with larger????

[Alitis007]

Just following this for now till I get a chance to reply

[Hodge]

You don't want your motor running too cool.


I have had concerns about running too cool as this can be an issue...

Sorry to butt in / hijack thread, and excuse the lack of my mechanical expertise... Just quickly why could this be a problem? I just assumed the cooler the engine runs the better ?? Hence a 3 core rad would be the go ?

[mudnut]

I have had it explained to me that engine oil is designed to be at the optimum viscosity in the normal heat range. Running too cold it is thicker and also the engine is tuned for the normal heat range too.

[Bigcol]

But heavy duty 2 core or 3 core as I know with 3 core there are smaller channels as apposed to a 2 core with larger????

you are right.......

I had a 3 core one, and it never fixed the constant "Nissan" aircon OFF when hot
went back to a brand new Factory 2 core

and it was fine

then I found out that the cores in the 3 core (all 3 together) is less than the 2 cores in the OE one............

the Ally ones of eBay are a hit and miss if they are any good (without defects or leaking) and a waste of time (know of 6 ppl who have brought...... only 2 were any good)

just saying..........

[the evil twin]

I have had it explained to me that engine oil is designed to be at the optimum viscosity in the normal heat range. Running too cold it is thicker and also the engine is tuned for the normal heat range too.

Agreed plus different metals expand at different rates so the engine is designed around tolerances for components to be at optimal size at a regulated temperature range, well, reasonably well regulated.
Same applies to hydraulic systems like power steering or auto gearboxes

In quite cold climates you may have to put covers over the radiator air source so the engine gets hot enough.
Ice Road Truckers is an extreme example but a good one.
They run their loaded trucks with maybe 1/2 to 3/4's of the grille covered and if empty or light load maybe 3/4's or more.

Not common these days but old school some trucks tractors etc had adjustable louvres on the radiator to restrict air flow

[Winnie]

Running too cool? That is what a thermostat is for, it opens and closes to regulate engine temps.

IMO any turboed td42 should have a basic radiator upgrade.

Yeah don't see how running too cold could possibly be a problem??

[threedogs]

You choose a thermostat to suit your climate IMO
As if you were in Darwin you would have a different set up to Tassie.
Running too cold will damage your motor
I think they call them tropical thermostats not 100% sure on that one

Too cold and a gas system may not work to its optimum

A friend of mine John Bennet [Google him] designed the cooling systems for
the V8 super cars he also has/had superior cooling setups for Nissans and most V8 conversions where
they couldnt get the motor to "normal'.
His system part "A" cost $600 for the water pump where he would take your water pump apart.
throw the pressed tin fan in the bin and build a proper impellor to go it its place.
He would then take a dye grinder and remove any areas where any sort of "cavitation" could occur. This mod alone was worth doing, increasing water flow by 20%
Part "B" of the mod was another $600 and included a billet thermostat housing that went into the bottom hose, there by taking engine temp when it leaves the motor, He also had a bleed system at the rear of the motor. With part "A" and "B" installed it would sit on "NORMAL" going up Zeka spur in low low with the aircon on on a 45 degree day. Sadly he retired to Mt Maceadon but still does a water pump now and again'
What this guy doesnt know about cooling isnt worth knowing, He is considered the Guru of all things to do with Automotive cooling.

[the evil twin]

Yeah don't see how running too cold could possibly be a problem??

If that was the case, why have the thermostat to heat the engine and coolant up to 90 ish degrees in the first place.
You could dice it and let the engine run as cold as the efficiency of the cooling system allows.
Yet every manuf runs their engines at 90 to 105 give or take as "normal" operating range

[Ben-e-boy]

But heavy duty 2 core or 3 core as I know with 3 core there are smaller channels as apposed to a 2 core with larger????

As long as you have have more capacity than stock (13L I think ) My pwr gives me an extra 5 odd litres of capacity. More coolant, more ability to transfer heat

[Ben-e-boy]

Yeah don't see how running too cold could possibly be a problem??

If it runs cold and the engine cannot get to temp the internals wont expand to their proper tolerances, and it will wear.

Anywhere between the 2 lines on the factory temp gauge is considered normal temp.

[Winnie]

If it runs cold and the engine cannot get to temp the internals wont expand to their proper tolerances, and it will wear.

Anywhere between the 2 lines on the factory temp gauge is considered normal temp.

I meant, how could it be a problem being that the thermostat will just close if the radiator I too efficient

[4bye4]

I meant, how could it be a problem being that the thermostat will just close if the radiator I too efficient

The thermostat won't stay closed. The thermostat will open when the stationary water in the engine reaches a certain temperature, allowing water to circulate through the system. When the engine temperature normalises, the thermostat may close a little or a lot to maintain a regulated temp. This is how it normally works. If the cooling is too efficient, that is the radiator is getting rid of ALL the heat, the maximum working temperature or the engine will be that of the radiator water. In other words the thermostat can only regulate what it has. If for some reason the water is too hot or too cold the thermostat can only regulate within that range.
IMHO the OME design of radiator, thermostat and system is probably best for the vehicle unless you are running in extremes such as cold climate all the time or very hot climate all the time. Increasing the number of cores may result in better cooling of the water but will also decrease the ID of the galleries in the radiator. OK if you always use good coolant in your radiator. Unfortunately, we tend to take our vehicles out and fill the radiator externals with leaves and mud and wonder why they don't perform as well as they did. There is always the possibility that an emergency in the bush may cause you to have to top up or even fill with not so pure water instead of coolant. In this situation it may be best to have as large an ID in the galleries as possible.

[Alitis007]

A couple of urban myths I can see here, firstly running too cold mainly effects petrol motors coz the NOT (normal operating temp) is set to help atomise the fuel so the motor runs at its optimum unlike a diesel. The other is the tubes of a quality 2 core and 3 core sould be the same diameter meaning a 3 core is thicker than a 2 core radiator. The theory I have been told by a manufacturer is its is easier and faster to cool a small quantity or water rather than a large mainly coz of the core thickness which affects airflow thru the heat sink of the core. As a recommendation a 3 core radiator would be better suited for heavy towing on the freeway coz the the travel speed will aid in cooling the core.

This is what I was told and from my experience made sense to me with my experience but doesn't make it gospel either, your driving conditions will dictate which size core suits your application as I told you the other day Jonathan

[Alitis007]

Oh and the thermostat constantly opens and shuts untill the water/coolant on either side of it equalise and it stays open to allow the water to flow freely. This also should be chosen for you application, usually the temp range of it should be roughly 10* lower then where you want it so the standard 82*c will give you a not of 90*c which is fine for the areas we drive

[Bloodyaussie]

The thermostat won't stay closed. The thermostat will open when the stationary water in the engine reaches a certain temperature, allowing water to circulate through the system. When the engine temperature normalises, the thermostat may close a little or a lot to maintain a regulated temp. This is how it normally works. If the cooling is too efficient, that is the radiator is getting rid of ALL the heat, the maximum working temperature or the engine will be that of the radiator water. In other words the thermostat can only regulate what it has. If for some reason the water is too hot or too cold the thermostat can only regulate within that range.
IMHO the OME design of radiator, thermostat and system is probably best for the vehicle unless you are running in extremes such as cold climate all the time or very hot climate all the time. Increasing the number of cores may result in better cooling of the water but will also decrease the ID of the galleries in the radiator. OK if you always use good coolant in your radiator. Unfortunately, we tend to take our vehicles out and fill the radiator externals with leaves and mud and wonder why they don't perform as well as they did. There is always the possibility that an emergency in the bush may cause you to have to top up or even fill with not so pure water instead of coolant. In this situation it may be best to have as large an ID in the galleries as possible.

This was my understanding and in the past have had a problem with a Kawasaki Gpz900r that are well known for overheating so I had a late model sports bike radiator modified to fit but found it worked too well and had a canvas cover made to put on during the colder months... in summer it was perfect and I no longer had over heating issues but winter saw it struggle to get to operating temps.

So a good heavy duty 2 core should be fine then????

[nissannewby]

So a good heavy duty 2 core should be fine then????

Yes!

Diesels still need to maintain an optimum running temp as well. This is not an "urban myth".

[Alitis007]

Yes!

Diesels still need to maintain an optimum running temp as well. This is not an "urban myth".
So how does water temp affect performance? ? I know diesel is used to cool the injectors and injector pump thats why coolers are fitted to the return lines of the late model diesels and naturally diesels run cooler than petrols yeah!?

[nissannewby]

So how does water temp affect performance? ? I know diesel is used to cool the injectors and injector pump thats why coolers are fitted to the return lines of the late model diesels and naturally diesels run cooler than petrols yeah!?

Due to a diesels nature (compression ignition) if the engine is not at the right temp the combustion is harder to achieve and you can end up with something called diesel knock.

Have you never heard a diesel start when it's dead cold?

[Bloodyaussie]

Due to a diesels nature (compression ignition) if the engine is not at the right temp the combustion is harder to achieve and you can end up with something called diesel knock.

Have you never heard a diesel start when it's dead cold?

They sound awesome...... bit like me when I wake nowadays!!!

[the evil twin]

Oh and the thermostat constantly opens and shuts untill the water/coolant on either side of it equalise and it stays open to allow the water to flow freely. This also should be chosen for you application, usually the temp range of it should be roughly 10* lower then where you want it so the standard 82*c will give you a not of 90*c which is fine for the areas we drive

Uuummmm... yes and no.
I agree with the delta T across the thermo but not how it works

Thermo's aren't an open and shut device, they are dynamic.
That means they will begin to open at 'x' temp and be fully open at 'y' temp.
Traditional engine thermos are wax pellet versus spring but bi-metallic is slowly becoming in vogue

Using hypothetical numbers and ignoring bypass circuits for ease of explanation.
At 85 degress my hypothetical thermo begins to open and pass coolant with a much lower temp from the Radiator to flow thru the engine
The thermo will settle at a percentage open, lets say 10%, where the coolant takes on heat energy from the engine and circulates thru the Radiator and has a temp of say 90 degrees.

Once the engine load starts to get significantly higher the coolant exiting the engine rises to, say, 95 degrees the thermo will open a tad more.
Lets say it now finds equilibrium at 50% open and 95 degrees.
The thermo cannot start to close as the heat is holding it open against it's mechanical pressure trying to move it closed.

The only thing that will move the thermo either further open is a further increase in engine load and thus coolant temp or towards close is a drop in engine load and the thermo mechanical pressure overcomes the expansion and begins to close.

If the thermo gets fully open, lets say 105, there can be no increase in coolant flow and any more load will cause the engine to overheat.

It is precisely for the above reasons that virtually all vehicle manufacturers use non linear temp gauges without a numbered scale.
This is actually quite a good idea because the temp of coolant exiting a vehicle engine is never constant but if it is within the 'normal' range then who really cares.

As an example my CRD dash temp had no discernible movement from it's "happy spot" just under 1/2 of scale if the engine sensor was between 80 ish degrees and 100 degrees.
From 100 to 106 it would move towards the upper limit mark.

[Hodge]

As an example my CRD dash temp had no discernible movement from it's "happy spot" just under 1/2 of scale if the engine sensor was between 80 ish degrees and 100 degrees.
From 100 to 106 it would move towards the upper limit mark.

Mine is identical. Once it hits half way it does not move no matter what. Although once warm, I have NEVER seen my coolant temps go out of 86-91 range. I am reading that from my scangauge. How accurate would that be Evil??? I have really pushed the car a few times and highest ive ever seen was 91C.

Edit: BA probably hates me for hijacking the thread again :P

[the evil twin]

Mine is identical. Once it hits half way it does not move no matter what. Although once warm, I have NEVER seen my coolant temps go out of 86-91 range. I am reading that from my scangauge. How accurate would that be Evil??? I have really pushed the car a few times and highest ive ever seen was 91C.

Edit: BA probably hates me for hijacking the thread again :P

Haters just gotta hate :)

Mine used to wander between 88 and 94 just swanning around the place.
Usually sat on 88-90 or 90 - 94 with A/C on and a hot day

Beach work (very soft going here in SW of WA) or towing in 40 to 45 degree heat it would wander between low 90's to low 100's.

Your scangauge is showing the temp reported to the ECU from the engine coolant temp sensor.
It will be equally as accurate as any aftermarket gauge and better than some.
I confirmed mine as being close enough using a laser gun.

[Bloodyaussie]

Mine is identical. Once it hits half way it does not move no matter what. Although once warm, I have NEVER seen my coolant temps go out of 86-91 range. I am reading that from my scangauge. How accurate would that be Evil??? I have really pushed the car a few times and highest ive ever seen was 91C.

Edit: BA probably hates me for hijacking the thread again :P

I dont hate.... it is a such a strong word.

And no Eric no problem I welcome all the discussion as this is a topic that has many misunderstandings and so much to learn from others, its also the time of year to nut this sort of stuff out.

[threedogs]

time to nut this stuff out was last winter before the temps rise, weather wise

[Bloodyaussie]

time to nut this stuff out was last winter before the temps rise, weather wise

Hindsight hey John........

[Alitis007]

Due to a diesels nature (compression ignition) if the engine is not at the right temp the combustion is harder to achieve and you can end up with something called diesel knock.

Have you never heard a diesel start when it's dead cold?
While testing that piston slap seems to go away with oil pressure after start up. Because td42's are simple mechanical injected they don't compensate by adding more fuel with lower water temps to warm the motor up quicker. You can see how sensitive they are when you block the egr which is used to help atomise fuel with heat in that on the td you won't get a flat spot during warm up unlike a petrol motor

They sound awesome...... bit like me when I wake nowadays!!!
Never heard a diesel moan and windge before......

Uuummmm... yes and no.
I agree with the delta T across the thermo but not how it works

Thermo's aren't an open and shut device, they are dynamic.
That means they will begin to open at 'x' temp and be fully open at 'y' temp.
Traditional engine thermos are wax pellet versus spring but bi-metallic is slowly becoming in vogue

Using hypothetical numbers and ignoring bypass circuits for ease of explanation.
At 85 degress my hypothetical thermo begins to open and pass coolant with a much lower temp from the Radiator to flow thru the engine
The thermo will settle at a percentage open, lets say 10%, where the coolant takes on heat energy from the engine and circulates thru the Radiator and has a temp of say 90 degrees.

Once the engine load starts to get significantly higher the coolant exiting the engine rises to, say, 95 degrees the thermo will open a tad more.
Lets say it now finds equilibrium at 50% open and 95 degrees.
The thermo cannot start to close as the heat is holding it open against it's mechanical pressure trying to move it closed.

The only thing that will move the thermo either further open is a further increase in engine load and thus coolant temp or towards close is a drop in engine load and the thermo mechanical pressure overcomes the expansion and begins to close.

If the thermo gets fully open, lets say 105, there can be no increase in coolant flow and any more load will cause the engine to overheat.

It is precisely for the above reasons that virtually all vehicle manufacturers use non linear temp gauges without a numbered scale.
This is actually quite a good idea because the temp of coolant exiting a vehicle engine is never constant but if it is within the 'normal' range then who really cares.

As an example my CRD dash temp had no discernible movement from it's "happy spot" just under 1/2 of scale if the engine sensor was between 80 ish degrees and 100 degrees.
From 100 to 106 it would move towards the upper limit mark.
On the bench uts a bit different coz you will notice that a 82*c thermostat will start opening roughly at 65-70*c and fully open by 80-83*c. I'm going to go thru basic operation of the thermostat but as one side heats ups (usually the bottom) the spring softens and looses its tention To allow water to pass thru usually at a lower temp which will cool the spring and its tention close the thermostat till it equals all if the cooling system.

On my 4.5 the gauge will show NOT from 64*c-96*c and will creep up at a higher temp.

The zd has more electronics to run more efficiently alot like carby vs efi so it will be significantly affected by water temp coz of the coolant temp sensor adding and decreasing fuel with different temperatures

[billyj]

intresting read, currently looking into rad options for my tb42e turbo, not so much overheating but rad is of an unknown age (at least 7 years) and plan is to up the boost early this year so will need more capacity to keep it cool

[nissannewby]

Even with the "simple" td42 there are things that are in place for when it's cold. Things like glow plugs help when cold and more often than not they actually operate until a certain operating temperature is met. Temperature on a diesel does affect it, no doubt of that at all. Not to mention like any other engine design it is meant to operate at certain tolerances in a certain temperature range for least amount of wear and efficiency, this engineering side of applies both to petrol and Diesel engine design.

Sorry George but your a little out of your depth with the understanding of the diesel. Please just comment on what you know instead of guessing.

I'm not trying to discredit you as you do have quite a bit of knowledge.

[Alitis007]

Even with the "simple" td42 there are things that are in place for when it's cold. Things like glow plugs help when cold and more often than not they actually operate until a certain operating temperature is met. Temperature on a diesel does affect it, no doubt of that at all. Not to mention like any other engine design it is meant to operate at certain tolerances in a certain temperature range for least amount of wear and efficiency, this engineering side of applies both to petrol and Diesel engine design.

Sorry George but your a little out of your depth with the understanding of the diesel. Please just comment on what you know instead of guessing.

I'm not trying to discredit you as you do have quite a bit of knowledge.

Why would you say I'm guessing then??? Doesn't make sense??

You're right I don't know much about diesels but what I do know is we're talking radiators and cooling systems, yes it affects the lubrication system and the viscosity of oil but unlike petrol like I said before doesn't use water temp for the fuel system. Water does not flow thru the injector pump to heat tje fuel and the glow plugs heat the air inside the combustion chamber not the fuel or water. Gq td42s don't have an ecu so why do they have a coolant temp sensor?? That would be for the glow plug relay which is on a timer from what I have seen while testing and as far as I could see when that coolant temp sensor got to a certain resistance the glow plugs wont get power. Now correct me if I'm wrong but if a diesel was affected by water temp like a petrol it would have a ecu to control the fuel delivery to aid in not only performance but also in speeding up the time it takes to get to NOT ?? From what I can see the leter model stuff does, like a petrol you richen up the a/f mix to raise combustion temps, to heat the coolant faster, to get to NOT quicker, to run more efficiently to use less fuel not to mention lessen wear and tear.

So now after this little lovers tiff what have I guessed? ? I'm curious and would like to know ?? I don't like being wrong and if you knew me well you would know I wouldn't speak if I was

[Bigcol]

not wanting to "buy" into the above comments, but I am thinking (and am very likely wrong........ almost always am.........)

is there a different temp setting for the Petrol thermostat V's the Diesel one?

wouldn't the petrol one open quicker than the diesel one?
or
atleast regulate the water flow differently?

I'm curious.......

my TD42 is getting hot when towing my van........ so I am watching this for some insight to help me........

[liftlid]

I just purchased thermostats for my petrol and diesel and they sold me the same one for both 4.2 engines. Haven't checked if they fit yet.

My TD42 just spent every hill from VIC to coffs sitting on 3/4 temp (bout where the fan kicks in)
And EGT's of 500/550 so I will be seriously looking into the 3 core rad next time , never got the car this hot in the Simpson and Kimberly .

I did remove and clean radiator before trip and it was covered with mud just from the 2 trips to matts so I don't see mud clogging a 3 core as any more of a problem

[Alitis007]

not wanting to "buy" into the above comments, but I am thinking (and am very likely wrong........ almost always am.........)

is there a different temp setting for the Petrol thermostat V's the Diesel one?

wouldn't the petrol one open quicker than the diesel one?
or
atleast regulate the water flow differently?

I'm curious.......

my TD42 is getting hot when towing my van........ so I am watching this for some insight to help me........


I just purchased thermostats for my petrol and diesel and they sold me the same one for both 4.2 engines. Haven't checked if they fit yet.

My TD42 just spent every hill from VIC to coffs sitting on 3/4 temp (bout where the fan kicks in)
And EGT's of 500/550 so I will be seriously looking into the 3 core rad next time , never got the car this hot in the Simpson and Kimberly .

I did remove and clean radiator before trip and it was covered with mud just from the 2 trips to matts so I don't see mud clogging a 3 core as any more of a problem


This is for both, what gauge are you going by the factory gauge or and aftermarket one ?? If the its in good condition have you had the radiator tanks removed and the core cleaned out internally to see if the tubes are blocked??

[sooty_10]

Just throwing my experience out there, My TD42t used to get warm (3/4) when I lived in the NT on long drives in hot humid weather eg. on a Katherine to Broome trip. I'd just keep an eye on it and maybe toggle the aircon just to confirm I could drop it if needed, as soon as the aircon went off temps would drop back under half.

Now when I did my engine conversion the original radiator was damage (from my accident) and I ended up buying a cheap Chinese alloy 3 core radiator. Installation needed a little modification of the top radiator mounting tabs, I just slotted them out so the radiator could be pulled closer to the support. Other than that I haven't had a single problem. It's been in for over 2.5 years now and done heaps of trips, including one to Beachport/Robe, and temps never really rose much.

The other week I was in Bright and did a track which was pretty constant and steep with switchbacks etc in 40 degrees, and low and behold temps rose. This time I had an Auber digital temp guage and warning alarm set at 110. On the factory gauge it got to 3/4, and temp reading was up to 115 max, however when it initially spiked high it was after a decent long climb and we stopped and I turned off the engine (no thought involved there). As soon as I got back in without the engine running the temp spike and alarm was going off, obviously due to no engine fan running or airflow and heat soak. As soon as I started the engine back up temps dropped pretty quick to around the 105 mark (we were still doing a massive climb). It wasn't until we got to the flatter ridge line that temps dropped below 100 and then stayed in the 90's.

That was with the original engine fan, fan clutch and thermostat from when I bought it over 5 years ago with the cheap Chinese alloy radiator.

The cooling system is definitely on my to do list for an overhaul, but I'm happy with how it is running under what I would call a fairly extreme condition.

And saying all that I haven't had the radiator out since I installed it, so no doubt there is some wombat mixed with local muds in there somewhere. Next service I might do a coolant change and pull the radiator out for an inspection.

[liftlid]

This is for both, what gauge are you going by the factory gauge or and aftermarket one ?? If the its in good condition have you had the radiator tanks removed and the core cleaned out internally to see if the tubes are blocked??

Going by the factory gauge as I don't need to know the exact water temp just how much it's changed from "normal" . I know from experience that with a clean radiator it will run about 1/4 on highway and around town, with a dirty rad (mud) it will be at 1/2 , then on a hot day and more load than normal (hills,loaded rack etc) it will max at the 3/4 if the clutch fan is working. As soon as you back off the power the temp drops.
The rad was flushed in June 2014 (I get it done every 12 months)

[Bigcol]

This is for both, what gauge are you going by the factory gauge or and aftermarket one ?? If the its in good condition have you had the radiator tanks removed and the core cleaned out internally to see if the tubes are blocked??

factory dash gauge - sits on just below half (about 85* off a 90* angle)
Autron Temp gauge - sits on 95* - to 110* (alarm goes off at 115*)
engine bay Temp (Autron) was sitting on 72*
EGTs 300* - Autron
Boost 8lb -Autron
sitting on 95kms

slight hill / gradual rise -
temp alarm goes off
factory gauge goes just past half way ( to about 92* off a 90* angle)
air con goes off
boost spikes to 12lb
EGT goes to 550*

radiator was replaced with new Nissan rad Xmas 2011
rad was flushed Xmas 2013
using factory coolant

is it my rad........????
is it my thermostat..........?????
is it my water pump.........?????
is it my Viscus fan...........?????
is it the fan itself.............????
is it a shit heap because the air con goes off when its a 43* day...........YES..............

I welcome your suggestions...........

[Dales300exc]

factory dash gauge - sits on just below half (about 85* off a 90* angle)
Autron Temp gauge - sits on 95* - to 110* (alarm goes off at 115*)
engine bay Temp (Autron) was sitting on 72*
EGTs 300* - Autron
Boost 8lb -Autron
sitting on 95kms

slight hill / gradual rise -
temp alarm goes off
factory gauge goes just past half way ( to about 92* off a 90* angle)
air con goes off
boost spikes to 12lb
EGT goes to 550*

radiator was replaced with new Nissan rad Xmas 2011
rad was flushed Xmas 2013
using factory coolant

is it my rad........????
is it my thermostat..........?????
is it my water pump.........?????
is it my Viscus fan...........?????
is it the fan itself.............????
is it a shit heap because the air con goes off when its a 43* day...........YES..............

I welcome your suggestions...........

Well. After my conversion mine was getting up to 110° rather consistently without much trouble at all down the highway. Small trailer in tow. Mid 20° ambients.

I was running a less than 12 month old 3 core brass copper rad.

Almost every part was new from the conversion except for fan hub. Radiator was cleaned.

To start with, from memory i fitted a high flow water pump with no gaskets from patrolapart to minimise housing clearance. I seemed to now be running closer to the 100° water temp mark.

Still wasn't too chuffed after some big range pulls seeing it creep to the 110° mark still.

I changed the fan hub with a new genuine fan hub and the fan blades to straight ones that are meant to flow better. Was now in the 90° range.

Finally i changed the thermostat to a tridon high flow to get the bypass valve closer to the port (its still not great clearance but was easier than modifying a dayco thermostat). At this time i also fitted a PWR 2 core alloy rad.

Now i consistently run between 78° and 82°. Keeping in mind I run a 77° thermostat.

BACK TO THE ORIGINAL QUESTION THOUGH.....
I much prefer alloy even if they can not be repaired half the time, they dissapate heat much better and temps recover a lot quicker after big loads.

There is a reason no new cars run brass copper rads anymore, because it is old technology that is no where near as efficient as modern alloys.

[Dales300exc]

Also, if you can stretch the budget a little, genuine replacement alloy with plastic tank rads that came in late model gqs can be bought new from patrolapart. They said they would have stock after chrissy and they were somewhere between 400 and 500 dollars.

They seem to get a good wrap

[the evil twin]

snip

slight hill / gradual rise -
temp alarm goes off
factory gauge goes just past half way ( to about 92* off a 90* angle)
air con goes off
boost spikes to 12lb
EGT goes to 550*


is it my rad........????
is it my thermostat..........?????
is it my water pump.........?????
is it my Viscus fan...........?????
is it the fan itself.............????
is it a shit heap because the air con goes off when its a 43* day...........YES..............

I welcome your suggestions...........

Hiya Col,

Please excuse the snip and my Boldface.

You are running D Gas and EGT's of 550, if you lift the welly a tad the overheating problem will go away.
It is the engine load driving the coolant temps not a faulty component as such.
If it was cooling system unserviceabilities the EGT would stay much lower and only Coolant temp rise astronomically.

If you want to keep the welly buried then you will need to improve the efficiency of the cooling system and go for a different radiator.

Nothing you have is broken as such, just not efficient enough to handle the heat load

[Bigcol]

Hiya Col,

Please excuse the snip and my Boldface.

You are running D Gas and EGT's of 550, if you lift the welly a tad the overheating problem will go away.
It is the engine load driving the coolant temps not a faulty component as such.
If it was cooling system unserviceabilities the EGT would stay much lower and only Coolant temp rise astronomically.

If you want to keep the welly buried then you will need to improve the efficiency of the cooling system and go for a different radiator.

Nothing you have is broken as such, just not efficient enough to handle the heat load

my thoughts were.........
thermostat maybe on its way.....1%
water pump not 100% efficient - 5%
viscus fan on its way - 5%
cracks in fan (not sure, havent looked) - 2%

spend a small fortune, and maybe - just maybe gain a better cooling rate.........

[the evil twin]

I am interested in the difference in 2 and 3 core radiators and have been told that 3 core are really only any good for towing and that with a lot of 4wding they clog up to easily.

I am looking at a copper/brass job but am unsure which way to go.. I would like any input from people who have actually fitted one.

I have to sell an injector pump to pay for it (so want to make sure I get this right) and will be selling a near new alloy radiator ($80) that is shit...lol.

I haven't replied earlier because I have only run Nissan factory rads and you were after comment from people running aftermarket.
Every "independant" rad specialist I spoke to over the years rates factory better than standard after market as a like for like swap

AFAIK the core debate works like this.
In copper a 2 core in alloy a 3 core.
Copper is a much better heat dissapator than Alloy BUT Alloy technology allows a larger amount of fin area.
Bottom line is if you have two equally efficient radiators of differing material the alloy will need to have more cores to get more fins to catch up on the heat transfer efficiency of copper as a material.

Alloy is becoming the modern material of choice because it is waaay cheaper than copper and heaps lighter so it is a $ decision by the manuf.
Alloy is nothing like as robust and is harder to repair.

Obviously the above applies when comparing like for like.
If you head off into the world of specialist high efficiency niche manuf then you have to trust their reps and their figures.

Sooo if it is copper versus copper as you mention then the more cores, the more efficiency, the more fins, the more air passages but smaller so, yes, they do block easier.
With what and to what degree depends on the individual

Hope that helps altho it may only start another 5 pages of shitfight

[the evil twin]

The zd has more electronics to run more efficiently alot like carby vs efi so it will be significantly affected by water temp coz of the coolant temp sensor adding and decreasing fuel with different temperatures

Uummmm... sorry but I have to disagree.

Coolant temp is only used by the ECU for fuel mapping when you start the engine as a function of temperature against RPM.
2. Fuel Injection Quantity Control
(i) Fuel injection quantity at engine starting
At engine starting, the fuel injection quantity is
determined by the engine speed at starting and cooling
water temperature

Once the engine is running the Coolant temp has little effect on ECU mapping

Also now is probably a bad time in this discussion but the ZD30 Thermostat is in the Coolant Inlet housing and not in the traditional position of the Coolant Outlet prior to the coolant leaving the engine for the radiator via the top hose.

[Alitis007]

Uummmm... sorry but I have to disagree.

Coolant temp is only used by the ECU for fuel mapping when you start the engine as a function of temperature against RPM.
2. Fuel Injection Quantity Control
(i) Fuel injection quantity at engine starting
At engine starting, the fuel injection quantity is
determined by the engine speed at starting and cooling
water temperature

Once the engine is running the Coolant temp has little effect on ECU mapping

.
Maybe coz its not as clear cut as carby v efi but coolant temp plays a role during running aswell.

Because I'm only guessing I have copied some text from the manual which should set some things straight, or add to the confusion and blow out this slight hijack even more.....

ENGINE COOLANT TEMPERATURE COMPENSATION (When starting)

For better startability under cold engine conditions, the fuel injection
timing is compensated according to the engine coolant temperature.

ENGINE COOLANT TEMPERATURE COMPENSATION (During driving)
For better exhaust efficiency under cool engine conditions, the fuel
injection timing is controlled within a compensation range depending
on the engine speed, engine coolant temperature and amount
of fuel injected.






this is for big col
Air Conditioning Cut Control
This system improves acceleration when the air conditioner is used.
When the accelerator pedal is fully depressed, the air conditioner is turned off for a few seconds.
When engine coolant temperature becomes excessively high, the air conditioner is turned off. This continues
until the coolant temperature returns to normal

[the evil twin]

Your post is exactly what I am trying to get across... Coolant Temp is not significant in the CRD ECU fuel maps when the engine is at operating temp.

Coolant temp is only a factor when the engine is below operating temperature as part of the pollution management protocol primarily to reduce NOX emmissions

[Bigcol]

Snip..........[/I]
this is for big col
Air Conditioning Cut Control
This system improves acceleration when the air conditioner is used.
When the accelerator pedal is fully depressed, the air conditioner is turned off for a few seconds.
When engine coolant temperature becomes excessively high, the air conditioner is turned off. This continues
until the coolant temperature returns to normal

they dont explain who's stupid idea it was to have this feature..........
of a freakin' hot day - driving down the road (yes towing a Van) the Air Con cuts out because the engine coolant is too hot.........

well suck me........

dont worry about building a barely adequate cooling system to start with Mr Nissan - I mean, YOU put a radiator for the Air Con in front of the Engine radiator and stick a dirty great thermo fan in front of that..........
just make the passengers and Driver melt with cabin temps of 37* so you can try and "bleed off" some engine temps............

only car I have EVER owned that turns the aircon off (cause you DONT really need it) when it gets too hot

build the freaking thing better ya tosser Mr Nissan..............


(and NO, I did NOT have it flat to the floor - or I would have been doing probably 120-130kms per hour...................)

[the evil twin]

ROFL... we do have a "Whats made me angry thread" you know.

[BigRAWesty]

they dont explain who's stupid idea it was to have this feature..........
of a freakin' hot day - driving down the road (yes towing a Van) the Air Con cuts out because the engine coolant is too hot.........

well suck me........

dont worry about building a barely adequate cooling system to start with Mr Nissan - I mean, YOU put a radiator for the Air Con in front of the Engine radiator and stick a dirty great thermo fan in front of that..........
just make the passengers and Driver melt with cabin temps of 37* so you can try and "bleed off" some engine temps............

only car I have EVER owned that turns the aircon off (cause you DONT really need it) when it gets too hot

build the freaking thing better ya tosser Mr Nissan..............

(and NO, I did NOT have it flat to the floor - or I would have been doing probably 120-130kms per hour...................)

You probably just need a good radiator clean out to remove any sludge build up in the bottom section where the sensor is.

[Alitis007]

Your post is exactly what I am trying to get across... Coolant Temp is not significant in the CRD ECU fuel maps when the engine is at operating temp.

Coolant temp is only a factor when the engine is below operating temperature as part of the pollution management protocol primarily to reduce NOX emmissions
On a efi the ecu uses a O2 sensor I have not played around with a zd so I'm not sure what it uses but you did say you disagreed that the coolant temp does play a role, I never said up to or during NOT I said simply it was significant bacuse it affected timing and duration of injection and compared it to carby and efi coz the gq td has no ecu where the zd does and meant it as the coolant temp sensor does not play a major role on the td42, unless of course you're talking the td42ti then thats a different story lol.

What does the zd use at NOT ??

they dont explain who's stupid idea it was to have this feature..........
of a freakin' hot day - driving down the road (yes towing a Van) the Air Con cuts out because the engine coolant is too



Lol! All manufacturers have this feature to prevent you from blaming their design when you coock your motor after it has over heated. All its meant to do is take a load off the motor to help cool it down.

A couple of weeks ago I was at a b'day in the high country and my radiator was blocked so my trol was overheating so on a 35* day I had the heater on flat out to control my water temps.... to say my mrs was impressed was an understatement hahahah


You probably just need a good radiator clean out to remove any sludge build up in the bottom section where the sensor is.
The sensore is on the lower thermostat housing where the bottom hose connects to the motor, in between it and the exhaust. On petrols they have a thermal fan switch on the side of bottom hose tank which kicks in the auxiliary fan when the engine over heats

[Bigcol]

Lol! All manufacturers have this feature to prevent you from blaming their design when you coock your motor after it has over heated. All its meant to do is take a load off the motor to help cool it down.



not driven many cars then have you....................

I drove through the Pilbarra with a 20' caravan in the late 80's and early 90's for about 3 years....... weight was about 2.5t
towed it with a VJ Valiant (318).... never overheated, aircon never went out
also towed it with
an XC GXL wagon (351) funny it never over heated and the aircon never went out
a HQ Premier sedan (202) never over heated, aircon never went out

another van I used to own in the late 90's
towed it with a 60 series - not over heating - aircon worked
ZH Fairlaine - no over heating, aircon worked
47 series troopy - no over heating - aircon working

GQ wagon TB42 towing 2t camper - over heats and aircon cuts out
NA LTD (4.0l) - towing same van - well look at that - no over heating and aircon stays on..........

do you see a patten - or do you want me to put up more of MY experience........

the cooling system on the td42 is crap right from the box - barely adequate, and prone to constant fiddling (like a freaking landrover...........)just to make it work
I just hope the Y62 has a better cooling system

when you are touring and towing (as I do) you want something thats not just capable of doing its job, but something that works without a worry

yes the days in question when my TD42 overheated it was over 40* - and it was only 9.30am - so yes the day was getting hot as we traveled

I believe my cooling system is trying to work to its best - its just not


trust me when I say - I have spend a fortune on trying to sort this problem - but you cannot fix stupid design......................

[threedogs]

XC 351 wagon now there is a classic with the two way tail gate
Zh Fairlane another beauty and old reliable a HQ Prem.
all from my vintage and cant for the life in me remember where they put the sensor, rlmao
KISS at its best
Might be gobal warming as they say its hotter these days Ha Ha
but in my book 40 is 40

[Bigcol]

sorry for the rantings..............
just gets sooo frustrating when it happens (and it shouldn't................)

apologies to Bloodyaussie for the LARGE hijack


ROFL... we do have a "Whats made me angry thread" you know.

its not that it makes me angry, just so damn frustrating
and when your wife is a staunch Tojo fan (with a 100series Kakadu) - makes for interesting comments about the lack of Aircon when its hot.............................

[Potsy]

Thought I'd jump in with my two cents regarding the radiator issue ( not overly knowledgable about cars ) but am refrigeration mech by trade. Do these radiator manufacturers put a "K" (temp difference) rating on the spec sheets for their products? I.e. Hypothetically A stock item may get A 20 degree TD on a day of a certain temp however a superior rad is capable of 30 degrees on the same day. This would make it a lot easier to select an item once you know what ambients your driving in, what load you expect and what operating temp you want.
I looked into the cooling system on my previous car (a Toyota surf) don't laugh!
It was my understanding that when started and cold the tstat would sit closed and hold the coolant in the engine back, water pump would still run but cavitate as it can push the coolant anywhere, once at temp the coolant starts to move around the system at varying rates dependant on where the tstat is sitting. (The tx valve in an aircon works like this but on a pressure basis and is constantly opening and closing)
These Toyota gauges (factory) were also fitted with a Zener diode in circuit which would oppose the change in resistance of the temp sensor to stop the gauge hunting around and unhappy customers returning to the dealership again and again with nuisance complaints. This of course means once it does move the engine is quite hot.
Must say I agree with nissannewby about low temps = bad. Especially on older diesels as I thought it could lead to blow by and issues like glazed bores??
I was also told not to sit for 15 minutes warming my patrol up but to give it 10-20secs and just drive it gingerly till up to temp.
WOW, sorry for the essay but just my 10 cents, potsy.

[Bigcol]

right oh........
time for an update on my over heating (again, apologies to Bloodyaussie)


factory dash gauge - sits on just below half (about 85* off a 90* angle)
Autron Temp gauge - sits on 95* - to 110* (alarm goes off at 115*)
engine bay Temp (Autron) was sitting on 72*
EGTs 300* - Autron
Boost 8lb -Autron
sitting on 95kms

slight hill / gradual rise -
temp alarm goes off
factory gauge goes just past half way ( to about 92* off a 90* angle)
air con goes off
boost spikes to 12lb
EGT goes to 550*

radiator was replaced with new Nissan rad Xmas 2011
rad was flushed Xmas 2013
using factory coolant

is it my rad........????
is it my thermostat..........?????
is it my water pump.........?????
is it my Viscus fan...........?????
is it the fan itself.............????
is it a shit heap because the air con goes off when its a 43* day...........YES..............

I welcome your suggestions...........

went to Joondalup 4x4 yesterday for them to have a look at what could possibly be wrong
well now........

is it my rad........remember, it was flushed Xmas 2013 - they took it out and back flushed it - lots of scale I was told.........
is it my thermostat..........old thermostat marked at 85* - didnt open untill 92* and never fully opened even at 110* - temp probe in water bench test
is it my water pump.........was an after market brand, compared to new Nissan one - slightly larger fins on the impellor from Mr Nissan
is it my Viscus fan...........was not working properly - pulled apart, small valve for oil movement was "jammed / stuck" shut- replaced with new anyway
is it the fan itself.............one small-ish crack, apart from that and dirty - looked ok

while the radiator was out, they also blew the Aircon rad out (from engine side) was lots and lots of dust and dirt and leaves came out

now have to hook up the Van and go for a drive to see if it is alot better, hopefully this weekend go for a drive and find out

again, sorry for the highjack Bloodyaussie

[Bigcol]

right oh........
time for an update on my over heating (again, apologies to Bloodyaussie)


factory dash gauge - sits on just below half (about 85* off a 90* angle)
Autron Temp gauge - sits on 95* - to 110* (alarm goes off at 115*)
engine bay Temp (Autron) was sitting on 72*
EGTs 300* - Autron
Boost 8lb -Autron
sitting on 95kms

slight hill / gradual rise -
temp alarm goes off
factory gauge goes just past half way ( to about 92* off a 90* angle)
air con goes off
boost spikes to 12lb
EGT goes to 550*

radiator was replaced with new Nissan rad Xmas 2011
rad was flushed Xmas 2013
using factory coolant

is it my rad........????
is it my thermostat..........?????
is it my water pump.........?????
is it my Viscus fan...........?????
is it the fan itself.............????
is it a shit heap because the air con goes off when its a 43* day...........YES..............

I welcome your suggestions...........

went to Joondalup 4x4 yesterday for them to have a look at what could possibly be wrong
well now........

is it my rad........remember, it was flushed Xmas 2013 - they took it out and back flushed it - lots of scale I was told.........
is it my thermostat..........old thermostat marked at 85* - didnt open untill 92* and never fully opened even at 110* - temp probe in water bench test - new thermostat put in
is it my water pump.........was an after market brand, compared to new Nissan one - slightly larger fins on the impellor from Mr Nissan
is it my Viscus fan...........was not working properly - pulled apart, small valve for oil movement was "jammed / stuck" shut- replaced with new anyway
is it the fan itself.............one small-ish crack, apart from that and dirty - looked ok

while the radiator was out, they also blew the Aircon rad out (from engine side) was lots and lots of dust and dirt and leaves came out

now have to hook up the Van and go for a drive to see if it is alot better, hopefully this weekend go for a drive and find out

again, sorry for the highjack Bloodyaussie

[Bloodyaussie]

right oh........
time for an update on my over heating (again, apologies to Bloodyaussie)



went to Joondalup 4x4 yesterday for them to have a look at what could possibly be wrong
well now........

is it my rad........remember, it was flushed Xmas 2013 - they took it out and back flushed it - lots of scale I was told.........
is it my thermostat..........old thermostat marked at 85* - didnt open untill 92* and never fully opened even at 110* - temp probe in water bench test - new thermostat put in
is it my water pump.........was an after market brand, compared to new Nissan one - slightly larger fins on the impellor from Mr Nissan
is it my Viscus fan...........was not working properly - pulled apart, small valve for oil movement was "jammed / stuck" shut- replaced with new anyway
is it the fan itself.............one small-ish crack, apart from that and dirty - looked ok

while the radiator was out, they also blew the Aircon rad out (from engine side) was lots and lots of dust and dirt and leaves came out

now have to hook up the Van and go for a drive to see if it is alot better, hopefully this weekend go for a drive and find out

again, sorry for the highjack Bloodyaussie

No apologies needed, this is completely on topic as far as I can see... will be watching closely to see how it goes for you mate

[Bigcol]

No apologies needed, this is completely on topic as far as I can see... will be watching closely to see how it goes for you mate

mate I've got fingers & toes & goolies crossed, hoping thats it sorted

[Bloodyaussie]

I actually have doubts as to my Thermostat and what temp rating it was ?

I will be taking my radiator out again very soon as the Australia Day trip I was a bit silly and got caught up in the excitement of owning a TD42 and lots of mud at Krisso's.

The water crossing I did in the dark filled it with reeds and heaps of sediment so I will look to replacing the thermostat then.

Just reading a blokes write up on fitting an oil cooler with a thermostat as he lives in the desert and he say's it has done wonders to his temp levels?

[Winnie]

I will be taking my radiator out again very soon as the Australia Day trip I was a bit silly and got caught up in the excitement of owning a TD42 and lots of mud at Krisso's.

What mud at Krisso's? LMAO
I am about due for a radiator flush out too.

[Bigcol]

Just reading a blokes write up on fitting an oil cooler with a thermostat as he lives in the desert and he say's it has done wonders to his temp levels?

tell me more.......................

[Bloodyaussie]

Running a cooler via a oil filter adapter plate that I think has a valve that opens depending on heat.. all the cheap ones on ebay do not have this and oil runs through them all the time.

There are heaps of kits you can buy.... this is a larger one and probably overkill. http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/AN10-Universal-34-Row-ENGINE-Oil-Cooler-FILTER-ADAPTER-7-Electric-Fan-Kit-BK-/331308975365?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4d238dc505

He was claiming that living in the hot conditions of the top end he saw temps of 120 regularly but now it sits at 95... I have seen others mention this and I did see one car at the wreckers with this set up (no it was not a transmission cooler)...

Not sure if there are issues with oil working at correct temps or what?

[Bigcol]

thanks for that BA...

someone I was talking to recently said something about them, but I didnt quite understand what they were referring to

now you have answered the question

looks the goods though.


Not sure if there are issues with oil working at correct temps or what?
not too sure if it would effect the oil that greatly to worry about damage, however buy the looks of it, it would greatly help in reducing the temps on already hot oil on long distances

where to mount the thing though............

[Alitis007]

How does oil temperature affect water temp??

[Bloodyaussie]

???????????? ????????? ???????????

[nissannewby]

The oil filter housing has coolant running through and sees this before the returning back down the head so the coolant is already warm.

An oil cooler is a very good idea. Keeping oil temp in check is also good for your engine. If the oil temp gets to high it starts to lose its ability to lubricate efficiently and as the filter housing is cooled it then transfers this heat to your cooling system.

[AB]

Interesting...

Would three be potential issues for the oil to be too cold in our vic winters using this?

Where the hell would you mount it?

Are you getting one Jonathan?

Could you mount like a top mount ic with scoop?

[Bloodyaussie]

Mounted here is most common..

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x260/jpgpz/Patrol%20ideas/10991073_914700805230599_2409612479248529145_n_zps 5kdrx884.jpg (http://s184.photobucket.com/user/jpgpz/media/Patrol%20ideas/10991073_914700805230599_2409612479248529145_n_zps 5kdrx884.jpg.html)

[Winnie]

Interesting...

Would three be potential issues for the oil to be too cold in our vic winters using this?

Where the hell would you mount it?

Are you getting one Jonathan?

Could you mount like a top mount ic with scoop?

Any excuse for a scoop!

[AB]

Mounted here is most common..



No room there....

[Bloodyaussie]

No room there....

Do you want me to purchase the items needed then come around and find a good spot then install it for you? lol !!!!

Not sure how a top mount oil cooler would go.

[AB]

Do you want me to purchase the items needed then come around and find a good spot then install it for you? lol !!!!

Not sure how a top mount oil cooler would go.

Ill install it myself thanks buttercup but your welcome to buy me one ;)

[nissannewby]

Interesting...

Would three be potential issues for the oil to be too cold in our vic winters using this?

Where the hell would you mount it?

Are you getting one Jonathan?

Could you mount like a top mount ic with scoop?

No issues.

Anything top mount will heat soak.

Sandwich plate seems to be the most common.

[rekha]

hi i am new in this forum

[Bigcol]

How does oil temperature affect water temp??

well, your water's ability to keep the engine cooler is impaired by the fact the engine & oil is already hot........
as has been said - very hot oil tends to loose its viscosity (ability to lubricate & ability to transfer heat around)

if you can keep the engine oil cooler, it will help the coolant in cooling down your engine temps...............


my understanding of it anyway...........

[Alitis007]

How does oil temperature affect water temp??


The oil filter housing has coolant running through and sees this before the returning back down the head so the coolant is already warm.

An oil cooler is a very good idea. Keeping oil temp in check is also good for your engine. If the oil temp gets to high it starts to lose its ability to lubricate efficiently and as the filter housing is cooled it then transfers this heat to your cooling system.


well, your water's ability to keep the engine cooler is impaired by the fact the engine & oil is already hot........
as has been said - very hot oil tends to loose its viscosity (ability to lubricate & ability to transfer heat around)

if you can keep the engine oil cooler, it will help the coolant in cooling down your engine temps...............


my understanding of it anyway...........

I won't say you guys are wrong but I will say my question is still un-answered and you guys are talking more about the affect of temperature to oil viscosity rather than how oil temp affacts water

[Bigcol]

I won't say you guys are wrong but I will say my question is still un-answered and you guys are talking more about the affect of temperature to oil viscosity rather than how oil temp affacts water
go get a Temp gun, go check the oil temp in your car, and the water temp after its been parked all night
then run the car, say 2 or 3 hours, then check the temps again.........
"will you look at that.. BOTH are now hot"

if you have a radiator to help disapate the water temp, pray tell us why a radiator for the oil will not work.........

well, if we are not wrong - but obviously not correct, according to you

perhaps you would care to enlighten us on how and where we are NOT right?

you obviously know the answer
maybe spill the bean for us that are not wrong............ and then we will know the secret as well

[threedogs]

Plenty of "oil coolers" have been fitted to Project cars,4x4 over the years to get the water temp down.
It should of been the first thing I did on my 350 4x4.
Miss matched engine body configurations are the worse to sort as they are not meant to be.
Anything that helps the oil do its job and maintain pressure has to be good for the motor,
bonus if coolant temps are down as well, I also used a product called wetter water,

[Ben-e-boy]

How does oil temperature affect water temp??


The oil filter housing has coolant running through and sees this before the returning back down the head so the coolant is already warm.


I won't say you guys are wrong but I will say my question is still un-answered and you guys are talking more about the affect of temperature to oil viscosity rather than how oil temp affacts water

As far as I can see any affect is going to come from the oil cooler, it is the only part where coolant and oil need each other.
If the oil cooler is gunked up, which many are it isnt going to work effectivly, so less oil cooling, more oil temp. Oil coolers inability to keep up so the coolant gets hotter and so on.

[AB]

As far as I can see any affect is going to come from the oil cooler, it is the only part where coolant and oil need each other.
If the oil cooler is gunked up, which many are it isnt going to work effectivly, so less oil cooling, more oil temp. Oil coolers inability to keep up so the coolant gets hotter and so on.

Are you in favour of the effectiveness of an oil cooler to cool down water temps?

I really just want Jonathan to buy it and put it in his td42 so I can see first hand results ;)

[Ben-e-boy]

Are you in favour of the effectiveness of an oil cooler to cool down water temps?

I really just want Jonathan to buy it and put it in his td42 so I can see first hand results ;)

Only would like one if itis a last resort and everything else is in good nic or brand new

[nissannewby]

Are you in favour of the effectiveness of an oil cooler to cool down water temps?

I really just want Jonathan to buy it and put it in his td42 so I can see first hand results ;)

You should fit an oil cooler simply to cool the oil. It is not a solve for cooling system issues. But installing one is beneficial to both the oil and coolant systems.

In doing so this takes some load off the cooling system. This also wont make it run cooler but will help to stabilise temps. By stabilised I mean the gauge shouldn't move much from normal operating temp.

[Bloodyaussie]

Just read a few articles on it and not one says its a bad thing (except the need for more oil) and all recommend it for any car they may experience more than normal loads.

Some say it helps with overall temps while others just say it is only for the good of the oil and wear and tear of the engine.

I might see how much cash I have next month (probably none) and look into doing this mod.

Might tie it in with doing the radiator clean.

[Sir Roofy]

just read a few articles on it and not one says its a bad thing (except the need for more oil) and all recommend it for any car they may experience more than normal loads.

Some say it helps with overall temps while others just say it is only for the good of the oil and wear and tear of the engine.

I might see how much cash i have next month (probably none) and look into doing this mod.

Might tie it in with doing the radiator clean.

if the mighty 4.2 is so good and all the stuff you went through to get it where you wanted it
why oh why are you doing this mod

unless your going to do comp stuff leave it alone theres no real benifit to it

[threedogs]

Sort of agree with Roofy why are you having overheating problems , fresh motor new radiator.
I can see benefits if doing some comp style driving but you dont get that in the high country or Tallarook.
But temps will climb on steep long drives especially in low low
If you're doing it to be more efficient, so temps are a bit more consistant then yeah Its not that $$$$
for a decent oil cooler. TBO this should of been the first thing to do on my other 4x4 might of saved a bit of heart break

[Bloodyaussie]

Sort of agree with Roofy why are you having overheating problems , fresh motor new radiator.
I can see benefits if doing some comp style driving but you dont get that in the high country or Tallarook.
But temps will climb on steep long drives especially in low low
If you're doing it to be more efficient, so temps are a bit more consistant then yeah Its not that $$$$
for a decent oil cooler. TBO this should of been the first thing to do on my other 4x4 might of saved a bit of heart break



Well I am confused??????

wheres my hammer.

[Bigcol]

dont be confused Bloodyaussie,
I think there are several thoughts going around about these, although not quite on the same page, they are valid points to consider

the oil cooler is just that
an extra "radiator" to help dissipate the heat generated by the engine for the oil..............

pretty much the same as years ago, you used to fit an "aftermarket" transmission cooler to help the Auto box dissipate the heat generated in there
pretty much mainly for towing, as the Auto does more work.

now the ONLY problems I can see (with my limited future vision) is where do you mount the damn thing

common place to mount would be behind the grill - so its in front of the current air con and engine Rads......
- this would slow the air down more in trying to cool your water - dont think its a good idea myself

mount it on top of the motor (like an intercooler) have a scoop - only spot is on the passenger side
- right above your Turbo (which is generating heaps of heat - heat rises - oil cooler useless)

under the roo bar at the front, under your winch
- maybe stake it or get crap in it - or block the bottom of the engine / aircon rads..........

mount it on top of your roof rack
- looks like crap and everyone will think you secretly want a comp truck

inside one of the guards - (like the Mini Radiator)
- mmmmm room V's actual efficiency

throw this one in there as well......

in front of the Passenger side windscreen - dont think the Boss, or the Police would appreciate that one.....

was speaking to a couple of mates who plays with Turbos etc... and have been playing with this for awhile
1. the cooling system on the 4.2 is crap
2. the oil cooler at best will only lower the engine temps by about 1* - depending on where it is situated
3. Factory or Nissan Water pump (after market impellers are smaller than OEM
4. factory or Nissan Viscus Fan hub - aftermarket dont last
5. Jury is still out on the Thermostat Nissan V's aftermarket

have been told that testing - temp probe at water into Rad and water out of Rad - only 5* to 6* difference
thats with temp probe at Thermostat and temp probe (drilled and tapped) into near water pump showing close to 100*

hope this helps you mate............

[Alitis007]

go get a Temp gun, go check the oil temp in your car, and the water temp after its been parked all night
then run the car, say 2 or 3 hours, then check the temps again.........
"will you look at that.. BOTH are now hot"

if you have a radiator to help disapate the water temp, pray tell us why a radiator for the oil will not work.........

well, if we are not wrong - but obviously not correct, according to you

perhaps you would care to enlighten us on how and where we are NOT right?

you obviously know the answer
maybe spill the bean for us that are not wrong............ and then we will know the secret as well
Mate fyi I didn't ask the question for me I asked it for everyone elses knowledge plus to let some one else answer. Anyway you'd have to be an idiot to say an oil cooler wont work, matter of fact I have one on my toy and lucky me its factory fitted. And as you can read below the answer was to do with the oil cooler which newby started heading in the right direction but didn't get there.

So lets say our heads are out of our arses and we're on the same wavelength and we understand heat is energy and energy is never lost but transferred, the oil increases in temp form combustion energy lost (and I say lost loosly becoause it hasn't been lost but transfered into heat into the metal components) and areas that have friction. As it heats up it thins out untill a certain temp where it starts to break down which is where the heat exchanger in the oil cooler comes into play and transfers the heat from the oil to the coolant which should be cooler if all the components are working efficiently. The heat exchanger in the oil cooler works well in normal conditions and probably slightly modified motors but lets say you add another heat source like for eg a turbo which is oil cooled only (BA's turbo) now the factory oil cooler will be at its limits and won't work efficiently and the oil starts to break down faster than normal, I can't see how the water temp will suffer if the radiator is working correctly or how the temp gauge should fluctuate because the sender is in another area but anyway your external oil cooler will come into play and help the heat exchanger in the factory oil cooler cool the engine oil. If it work too well the heat feom the coolant will try to reheat the engine oil and the factory cooler will work in reverse lol

The only thing I can't say if you will have a problem with or not is if it will put strain on the oil pump or if you will have oil starvation anywhere but it should in theory do more good then bad.


Like I said you where not wrong but just didn't answer my question

As far as I can see any affect is going to come from the oil cooler, it is the only part where coolant and oil need each other.
If the oil cooler is gunked up, which many are it isnt going to work effectivly, so less oil cooling, more oil temp. Oil coolers inability to keep up so the coolant gets hotter and so on.


You should fit an oil cooler simply to cool the oil. It is not a solve for cooling system issues. But installing one is beneficial to both the oil and coolant systems.

In doing so this takes some load off the cooling system. This also wont make it run cooler but will help to stabilise temps. By stabilised I mean the gauge shouldn't move much from normal operating temp.

[Bloodyaussie]

Grrr !!!!

My comment about being confused was directed at Johns comment about not needing a cooler but in the same breath saying it is a good idea...

As for my understanding of the whole idea of an oil cooler I have a very good understanding of it all but sometimes it is good to not be a know it all and encourage some healthy discussion.

My back ground is bikes and oil coolers were common place for many years... I just liked the idea of people sharing there ideas without being put down by others or made to feel stupid or belittled.

Many people start to tune out once people start to put other peoples ideas down and turns into a slinging match.... I'm going back outside to continue cleaning... fraking bloody gribble blah!!!!!!

[nissannewby]

Well I am confused??????

wheres my hammer.

Fit an oil cooler. Comp rig, daily driver, zd30, td42 or rice toy it is beneficial and certainly worth just for engine life.

How many more pages is it gonna take to convince you??

[rusty_nail]

Fit an oil cooler. Comp rig, daily driver, zd30, td42 or rice toy it is beneficial and certainly worth just for engine life.

How many more pages is it gonna take to convince you??

i think hes convinced, there are others that arent is what hes saying =D

[Alitis007]

pretty much the same as years ago, you used to fit an "aftermarket" transmission cooler to help the Auto box dissipate the heat generated in there
pretty much mainly for towing, as the Auto does more work.
Heat in the transmission oil is generated by the torque converter while you're accelerating. .. just saying

[Bigcol]

pretty much the same as years ago, you used to fit an "aftermarket" transmission cooler to help the Auto box dissipate the heat generated in there
pretty much mainly for towing, as the Auto does more work.



Heat in the transmission oil is generated by the torque converter while you're accelerating. .. just saying

yes we realise this -I wasn't talking about "creating" the heat in the Auto Transmission - but dissipating the said heat in the Auto Transmission


however, after re-reading this whole thread, I have realised that we were talking about 2 separate issues that were in this same tread.

your question

How does oil temperature affect water temp??

was best answered in this post #71

The oil filter housing has coolant running through and sees this before the returning back down the head so the coolant is already warm.

however, I am talking about post #61 and #67

Just reading a blokes write up on fitting an oil cooler with a thermostat as he lives in the desert and he say's it has done wonders to his temp levels?

Running a cooler via a oil filter adapter plate that I think has a valve that opens depending on heat.. all the cheap ones on ebay do not have this and oil runs through them all the time.
There are heaps of kits you can buy.... this is a larger one and probably overkill. http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/AN10-Universal-34-Row-ENGINE-Oil-Cooler-FILTER-ADAPTER-7-Electric-Fan-Kit-BK-/331308975365?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4d238dc505
He was claiming that living in the hot conditions of the top end he saw temps of 120 regularly but now it sits at 95... I have seen others mention this and I did see one car at the wreckers with this set up (no it was not a transmission cooler)...
Not sure if there are issues with oil working at correct temps or what?

about fitting an aftermarket external additional cooling radiator for the oil.

your original question

How does oil temperature affect water temp??
was in fact answered by Nissannewby - the coolant runs through the oil filter housing - thus taking heat from the oil, transferring it to the coolant, and then on through the rest of the cooling system ie: thermostat, water pump and radiator.

[Bigcol]

the answer can also be found in "Treatise on Thermodynamics" by Dr Max Planck
https://www3.nd.edu/~powers/ame.20231/planckdover.pdf

TREATISE ON THERMODYNAMICS.
PART I.
FUNDAMENTAL FACTS AND DEFINITIONS.
CHAPTER 1
Paragraph 2

If two bodies, one of which feels warmer than the other, be brought together
(for example, a piece of heated metal and cold water), it is invariably found that
The hotter body is cooled, and the colder one is heated up to a certain point, and then all change ceases.
The two bodies are then said to be in thermal equilibrium.
Experience shows that such a state of equilibrium finally sets in, not only when
two, but also when any number of differently heated bodies are brought into
mutual contact.

[the evil twin]

Two differently heated bodies brought into mutual contact usually results in a slap across the chops (spousal) or knee to the nuts (alcohol).
Anal cooling is achieved when your bum heats up so much after you eat Chillies, the thought of a crap makes you cry thus achieveing Rectal equilibrium.
2 Core Radiators rule off road (gotta stay on topic).
If oil is cooled by the exchange of energy heating air, oil coolers must therefore contribute to global warming and should be avoided.
Prados suck.
TD42's overheat, ZD30's explode, RD28's can't pull the skin off custard, Petrol engines are for shopping trolleys.
6 out of 7 facts on the Internet aren't.

Sorry Col and others, couldn't resist...

[threedogs]

what gauges are you running or planning to run

[Bloodyaussie]

what gauges are you running or planning to run

For what???

I run the Road runner EGT gauge recommended by Matfew and the boost gauge is from autotecnica as it was on special and a VDO oil pressure gauge.

As for my water temp gauge it is a good bit of kit but cannot find it to buy another for AB as it has both water and oil temps plus programmable for thermo fan .. also has volt gauge. Really happy with it and have been using it for 2 years now.

[Parksy]

Go the oil cooler. Apart from lubing bearings, oil also cools them and other parts of the engine. Not sure if it's been mentioned before

[AB]

Here you go Jonathan...


Look at this on eBay:

GQ Nissan Patrol Turbo diesel 4.2ltre oil cooler Part no- 21305-26J00 - unused

http://ebay.to/1AddiLj

[Winnie]

Here you go Jonathan...

Look at this on eBay:

GQ Nissan Patrol Turbo diesel 4.2ltre oil cooler Part no- 21305-26J00 - unused

http://ebay.to/1AddiLj

Let the moths out and just do it Andy!

[Bloodyaussie]

It an auto transmission cooler mate... I have an oil cooler here I bought for a Supermono race bike I was building but never fitted it.. I would just need lines and the oil filter thingy.