2009 CRD Black Smoke after 60k service

[apalsson]

Gents,

I am wrestling with a black smoke problem that I believe started following a 60k service
In an attempt to save some $$$, I took the car to a well known 4WD place rather than my usual Nissan dealer because I had been quoted a much lower price over the phone.
Anyhow, I picked up the car on a Friday and the next morning took off on a trip towing a small van.
During the trip, I noticed that each time I was taking off, I was blowing quite a bit of black smoke whereas before, the engine had been relatively clean.
When I got home, I contacted the shop and told them about this but they were quite evasive and suggested that it had "been a while since they did the service" etc etc.

Anyway, during the service, they had replaced the air filter and not used a genuine Nissan filter. Apparently, they also did other 60k service items as per the schedule.
They had also cleaned the MAF sensor.

I decided not to take the car back there because I could see they were going to charge me their full rates to diagnose the issue. Instead, I took the car to Nissan and got them to replace the air filter with a genuine one (just in case)
This has not resulted in an improvement and the car is still blowing more black smoke than it should.
I mainly notice this when the turbo kicks in, for example if I take off on lights and as the revs hit 1500 - 2000RPMs, there is quite a puff of black smoke.
Also - if I hit the throttle to any extent in normal driving, I can see a black puff as well.

Another thing I noticed after the service was that I was using more fuel than before.

Where do we start looking?
Is this likely to be the MAF? (they are not bl**dy cheap, so I'd hate to have to buy one, just to find that was not the case)
Nissan replaced the air filter so that should not be the issue

Any help would be appreciated

[my third 256]

get some maf cleaner from repco / super cheep or some one like that and do it yourself
plenty of threds on the topic
here you go to the link
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?597-Checking-and-cleaning-MAF-sensors&highlight=clean+sensor

[Hodge]

If they say, they cleaned your MAF I hope they didn't damage it somehow.

[apalsson]

get some maf cleaner from repco / super cheep or some one like that and do it yourself
plenty of threds on the topic


Nissan gave it a clean when they replaced the filter
My concern is just that it wasn't damaged somehow when the service was done.
Should I look at something else as well?

[apalsson]

If they say, they cleaned your MAF I hope they didn't damage it somehow.
Same concern here - and if they did, it will be one heck of a battle getting them to admit to it

[kevin07]

have you checked all your hoses to the turbo that can cause smoke.

[apalsson]

have you checked all your hoses to the turbo that can cause smoke.

Yes, I have just been through those and not found anything obvious

[kevin07]

do you have a boost gauge scangauge like that

[apalsson]

No, unfortunately, I still haven´t gotten around to getting those

[kevin07]

without that it gets a bit harder but next thing blocking the egr can eliminate smoke

[BigRAWesty]

Do Nissan have a spare maf you could try?? Or a mate you could borrow for a test drive?

[apalsson]

I had been planning to do that but because I still have Nissan warranty on the car, I had been reluctant to do that in case Nissan void the engine warranty on me. I might try to get Nissan to troubleshoot the smoking issue in case they come across anything that gets covered. Fat chance, I know but probably my best bet?
Alternately, we have a diesel place in town that also has a dyno that they use for troubleshooting various issues

[apalsson]

Do Nissan have a spare maf you could try?? Or a mate you could borrow for a test drive?

Good idea - don't know anyone here with another CRD - know a couple of guys who have Patrols but only the Di version

[jack]

As it's still under warranty I'd recommend to go back to Nissan. If they find the MAF has been damaged then you can go back to the people who did it with some more ammunition, if it's something else it should be covered by warranty. Either way it will probably cost you some coin as Nissan don't do much for free. Good luck.

[4bye4]

Just a couple of thoughts. Have you checked the obvious, the oil level. i have had trouble with my Patrol and also with a Merc Vito work van, that smoked after service and turned out that the service mob had overfilled them. There is also the issue of what oil was used in the motor. Some are better than others and if you go to a cheaper serviceman you sometimes get cheaper products being used, as is evidenced by the after market filter fitted.
Finally, fuel pump timing adjustment can cause black smoke and change fuel economy, but why the hell anyone would change pump timing on a service I don't know.

[mudski]

Yeah I'd check the oil level... Depending on what they used to clean the maf, it does sound like a MAF issue to me. What type of oil did they put in too? If you have a Supercheap auto in town they have the diagnostic readers there. I think they charge $15 or something like that to plug it in and give you any fault codes, if there is any...

[apalsson]

Yeah I'd check the oil level... Depending on what they used to clean the maf, it does sound like a MAF issue to me. What type of oil did they put in too? If you have a Supercheap auto in town they have the diagnostic readers there. I think they charge $15 or something like that to plug it in and give you any fault codes, if there is any...

I hadn't thought of that. I might go and see SuperCheap and see if they can read the ECU for me
I did check the oil level and it seemed about right. Which oil they used, I couldn't tell you.
The thing that sh*ts me the most about this was that these guys ended up no cheaper than Nissan. In fact, they charged more than Nissan would have because of the capped service Nissan offers. Apparently, I was mis-quoted when I rang and asked how much they would hit me for 70k service

[the evil twin]

Buy a scan gauge or equivalent.
I cannot stress how valuable they are for the CRD's.
They pay for themselves in fuel savings alone because you can see when you are using the most fuel and even a minor adjustment in driving techniques can save you a significant amount.

Good idea to go back to the Nissan Air Filters, the CRD's are touchy about air flow.
It didn't help you this time but I always used genuine after several forumites encountered issues with afternarket jobbies

Black smoke is burnt fuel (usually overfuelling/MAF/Boost) white is unburnt fuel (usually low compression) and blue is oil so your noticing that the fuel economy has dropped and black smoke is part of the same issue I reckon.
If the dudes who cleaned the MAF damaged it that should show up during voltage tests but the symptoms point to eliminating the MAF as a problem first.
It is also possible they have damaged/squashed/split an air line for the VNT control so triple check all those dinky little hoses on the pax side of the engine.

The big advantage of a Scangauge will be you can see the boost pressure so you can suss out whether boost is low or not.
They don't show EGT but unless you are chipping an engine or doing serious mods you don't need to know EGT anyway.

[apalsson]

Buy a scan gauge or equivalent.
I cannot stress how valuable they are for the CRD's.
They pay for themselves in fuel savings alone because you can see when you are using the most fuel and even a minor adjustment in driving techniques can save you a significant amount.


I had been eying them out for a while and guess, the black smoke issue is just another reason for a Christmas gift for myself
Just ordered one online - hopefully Santa will make it in time :)

[the evil twin]

I had been eying them out for a while and guess, the black smoke issue is just another reason for a Christmas gift for myself
Just ordered one online - hopefully Santa will make it in time :)

You will love it.

What suprised me is how much the CRD's like a bit of welly.
I improved my fuel economy by 10% around town by accellerating harder and getting the sucker up to speed then backing off.
I usually had my display on "Boost", "Instant Fuel" and "Coolant Temp" with the 4th display dependant on what I was doing IE Towing, Cruising, Gnarly stuff etc

[apalsson]

That is quite interesting and quite the opposite driving style I had adopted to save on fuel consumption
Guess that is another reason to get to the bottom of this "black smoke issue" :)

[apalsson]

Scangauge is here! Exciting days :)

Does anyone know if it is possible to program up a gauge to read MAF sensor voltage?

[kevin07]

Just a couple of thoughts. Have you checked the obvious, the oil level. i have had trouble with my Patrol and also with a Merc Vito work van, that smoked after service and turned out that the service mob had overfilled them. There is also the issue of what oil was used in the motor. Some are better than others and if you go to a cheaper serviceman you sometimes get cheaper products being used, as is evidenced by the after market filter fitted.
Finally, fuel pump timing adjustment can cause black smoke and change fuel economy, but why the hell anyone would change pump timing on a service I don't know.

no timing on the crd

[kevin07]

Buy a scan gauge or equivalent.
I cannot stress how valuable they are for the CRD's.
They pay for themselves in fuel savings alone because you can see when you are using the most fuel and even a minor adjustment in driving techniques can save you a significant amount.

Good idea to go back to the Nissan Air Filters, the CRD's are touchy about air flow.
It didn't help you this time but I always used genuine after several forumites encountered issues with afternarket jobbies

Black smoke is burnt fuel (usually overfuelling/MAF/Boost) white is unburnt fuel (usually low compression) and blue is oil so your noticing that the fuel economy has dropped and black smoke is part of the same issue I reckon.
If the dudes who cleaned the MAF damaged it that should show up during voltage tests but the symptoms point to eliminating the MAF as a problem first.
It is also possible they have damaged/squashed/split an air line for the VNT control so triple check all those dinky little hoses on the pax side of the engine.

The big advantage of a Scangauge will be you can see the boost pressure so you can suss out whether boost is low or not.
They don't show EGT but unless you are chipping an engine or doing serious mods you don't need to know EGT anyway.
I would beg to differ on the egt gauge stock standard when I put a probe in my exhaust and towed my camper I was hitting 700 easily so fitting the egt to is the first thing to do before any mods by doing the mods all lower the egts.

[the evil twin]

I would beg to differ on the egt gauge stock standard when I put a probe in my exhaust and towed my camper I was hitting 700 easily so fitting the egt to is the first thing to do before any mods by doing the mods all lower the egts.

Hiya Kevin,

Every factory CRD towing Vans etc is probably doing the same temps, Cobber.

The CRD's run at pretty high dump EGT's out of the box.
Because of the large delta T across a Turbo, post Turbo EGT is only a 'guesstimate' to what the cylinder gas temps actually are.

[apalsson]

I was hitting 700 easily so fitting the egt to is the first thing to do before any mods by doing the mods all lower the egts.

OK, so if you are towing anything worth mentioning with a CRD, I assume you mean EGR block and wider exhaust?

[Hodge]

OK, so if you are towing anything worth mentioning with a CRD, I assume you mean EGR block and wider exhaust?

Highly recommended. EGR to stop the engine copping the heat twice, and exhaust to get rid of the heat quicker, in a nutshell.

[apalsson]

I spoke with a dealer for Redback yesterday - they wanted some $1,300 for a 3" system fitted.

[apalsson]

I have been playing with the new Scangauge. Most things seem pretty good but others I don't care for as much.
After I fitted it, I filled up with diesel (took 89 litres) and updating that was a pain and a half!
The other thing I cannot work out are the fuel consumption gauges. LHKM (litres pr 100Km) shows me using some 80L pr 100Km and AVG isn't much better.
I knew these cars are a bit on the thirsty side but this one really takes the cake :)
I chose DIESELa as the fuel type which I'm pretty sure is right.
Any ideas?

[Hodge]

I'm in the same boat with scangauge mate and fuel consumption. I think I didn't read the manual properly, as there is a process to follow for most accurate fuel consumption and mine is all over the place. They are apparently very accurate if you follow the proper process.

[the evil twin]

They are extremely accurate actually.
I seem to recall mine was Diesel B but not 100% sure now.

Have another read of the manual and follow the steps, you should only have to set it up once.

Mine was within 1 KPH for speed (against GPS) and within +/- 2 litres over 140 litres per fillup (long range plus sub) unless I was going real hard off road or on the beach when a small error would creep in due to the DP Chip fooling the ECU

[apalsson]

They are extremely accurate actually.
I seem to recall mine was Diesel B but not 100% sure now.

Have another read of the manual and follow the steps, you should only have to set it up once.

Mine was within 1 KPH for speed (against GPS) and within +/- 2 litres over 140 litres per fillup (long range plus sub) unless I was going real hard off road or on the beach when a small error would creep in due to the DP Chip fooling the ECU

Interesting - I did the setup exactly as described and both DIESELa and DIESELb match what is described, - that is both result in an increase in measured consumption when you raise the RPM from idle to 1500RPM
Based on that outcome, there is no way to determine which one I should pick so I left it on DIESELa

[the evil twin]

Try it in Diesel B.

Once you have set up the Fuel and Engine Capacity the instrument should read correct fuel flow figures (litres per hour).
This should be 0.0 during fuel cut (coasting, in gear, no throttle)
Around .5 to .8 idle
Around 8 to 12 cruising
Around 26 to 40+ if you plant the noise pedal

It will need other parameters for Fuel economy IE speed correction due to tyre size etc,

The tankage and fill up adjustments is so the instrument can calculate fuel remaining etc.

[kevin07]

OK, so if you are towing anything worth mentioning with a CRD, I assume you mean EGR block and wider exhaust?

also a chip helps and my next step is a larger intake which I will paint this weekend