Novice day Tallarook 14th December family friendly

[Hodge]

Few more photos of lunch at dam. And Mudskis car after he got out of that mess. That is all the media I have from the trip!

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=52726&stc=1http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=52727&stc=1

[krbrooking]

For some reason forum runner won't let upload pics or vids so I will have to load them into the computer and then upload them that way, I will only be able to do that on the weekend so watch this space.

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[jay see]

I'd be investing in a set of proper side steps the OE ones are not much chop IMO

Yep, there on that ever growing list
Something like these.
52739

[cgm]

Battle scars. Amazing what you don't see when its dirty.


Bummer. Do you know where you did that?

[threedogs]

have they fenced down at the reservoir or are they small trees

[threedogs]

Yep, there on that ever growing list
Something like these.
52739

Not a fan of that style cause if you hit a tree and bend them in against a wheel its a PITB to get them off the tyre'
If its just a guard at least you can belt it out with a hammer, but we hope that wont happen eh lol

[MEGOMONSTER]

My damage report.
Dinged the sub tank in the corner where the sump plug is and is leaking diesel.

[Winnie]

Bloody hell Mego and they are not in a vulnerable spot

[Hodge]

My damage report.
Dinged the sub tank in the corner where the sump plug is and is leaking diesel.

S#it . That's no good mate. One of those boulders you straddled and bounced on top... Did you lose a lot of diesel as in was it full???



My damage report isn't as sinister but my handbrake don't work.

[MEGOMONSTER]

Bloody hell Mego and they are not in a vulnerable spot

It was on that long hill climb at the rock ledge, that was the only crunch all day.
Right rock right spot.
Oh well, emptying sub tank now hopefully it will pull out.

[Bacho86]

Only got a few photos of mudski's winch effort attempt through that bog hole

527475274852749

[Dhuck]

You Vic folk really do like mud. Horrible shite

[jay see]

My damage report.
Dinged the sub tank in the corner where the sump plug is and is leaking diesel.

Looks like a aftermarket or custom made one, is that why there isn't a bash plate.

[MEGOMONSTER]

Looks like a aftermarket or custom made one, is that why there isn't a bash plate.

It's a Long Ranger auxiliary fuel tank.
Will look into a bash plate of some sort.

[Winnie]

It's just another thing to get hung up on Mick... I think you got unlucky, must have been a rock sticking out in just the right spot to hit that

[cgm]

Only got a few photos of mudski's winch effort attempt through that bog hole

527475274852749

It's got that MudRunner feel about it. Just needs 4 snatch blocks and he'd have been through that in no time.

[Winnie]

It's got that MudRunner feel about it. Just needs 4 snatch blocks and he'd have been through that in no time.

I am telling you, Darren would not have winched through that... He would drive straight on out and then ask when does the track start

[Drewboyaus]

I am telling you, Darren would not have winched through that... He would drive straight on out and then ask when does the track start

Yes, in 2H....

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[mudski]

Trouble with bog holes is idiots fill them up with sticks and logs,
the first thing they want to do is punch a hole through your floor and other nasty stuff.
If you do a bog hole for the sake of it coop it sweet and move on.
If you continue to do bog holes it will deplete your wallet very quickly.
The smart move is if you dont need to go through the bog hole dont.
problem solved,no damage ready for the next challenge

Now wheres the fun in that John? While I totally agree with you as my clutch isn't feeling too good right now. Its fun!

[Winnie]

Now wheres the fun in that John? While I totally agree with you as my clutch isn't feeling too good right now. Its fun!

That's the worst part about it.. You know it's wrong and your car will hate you but there's a little part inside everyone that just loves bogholes
I wish I had a junker mq or something to just attack bogholes

[mudski]

That's the worst part about it.. You know it's wrong and your car will hate you but there's a little part inside everyone that just loves bogholes
I wish I had a junker mq or something to just attack bogholes

And I spend $20 at the car wash last night just attempting to clean the under side. Then I spent from 12:30 to 6pm lying under my car with the Karcher and taking each wheel of at a time and hosing out the mud in the brakes. Then filled a large wheel barrow with the mud in the gutter and hose the gutter clean. Now I need to hose myself clean, I feel dirtier than yesterday.


I am telling you, Darren would not have winched through that... He would drive straight on out and then ask when does the track start

I happily put money on it that he would get through this one Winnie. Even 37's would have been too small for this.

[Hodge]

Farkkkk that bog hole . Mudskis patrol turned into a Mudski-dozer, pushing 5 tons of that s#it forward. No thanks!
Mines still dirty, I'll look at the handbrake once I clean it.

[Ben-e-boy]

there's a little part inside everyone that just loves bogholes

No there isn't... that is stupid.

[jay see]

I don't mind a blog hole every now and then, but starting to really enjoy the hill climbs and descents. Just need better 1st low.

[lucus30]

I just need to use 1st low on hill climbs rather than forgetting and hitting it in 1st High

[threedogs]

low 2 at 1800- 2000rpm should see you tackle most hills thats going up
going down low low and lock everything and never touch the brakes if possible
and never ever depress the clutch either going up or down, If an auto never put it in Park on a steep hill

Im with winnie need a purpose built shorty just for bog holes throw some rice tyres on it wham bang thank you mam

[mudnut]

There's a shorty that's engineered to have a V8 fitted, down my way. Just whack an engine in it and Bob's your uncle.

[cgm]

Just one short video from my side (unless I post up a few polluting pictures):


http://youtu.be/7qEqQ7pxR1k

[krbrooking]

I have no choice but to hit most hill climbs in low 1 as mine is to under powered to do it any other way.

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[Ben-e-boy]

I have no choice but to hit most hill climbs in low 1 as mine is to under powered to do it any other way.

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In decent conditions there is nothing wrong with lugging up a hill in 1st low, dont forget that torque is multuplied by gears, get it into the decent torque rev range and the the vehicle do the work, throw in some good throttle control and stuff gets easier, giving it the berries isnt the be all and end all

[MEGOMONSTER]

giving it the berries isnt the be all and end all

A little too much to get over the ledge.

52810

And stuff like this happens.
Other than this, I did extremely well this weekend with everything in front of me, I actually made it all look easy.
Right tyre pressure, right line, right speed.
Loved every minute.

[sooty_10]

Just one short video from my side (unless I post up a few polluting pictures):


http://youtu.be/7qEqQ7pxR1k

Nice little video, it's not often I get to see what my patrol is doing from the outside. I had a great time guys and was good to meet some more guys and see some again. I hadn't been to Tallarook before and will definitely have to head back there to check out some of those other neat looking hill climbs.

Washed all the mud off it today and can report no obvious damage for me.

[cgm]

Nice little video, it's not often I get to see what my patrol is doing from the outside. I had a great time guys and was good to meet some more guys and see some again. I hadn't been to Tallarook before and will definitely have to head back there to check out some of those other neat looking hill climbs.

Washed all the mud off it today and can report no obvious damage for me.

Well it looks good from the outside. :)

I've been too busy and have not tried to clean yet. Will probably stay dirty until the weekend.

I also had a great day and enjoyed meeting more people. We must also be able to find something between Bendigo and Ballarat to do one day?

[mudski]

My damage report.
Dinged the sub tank in the corner where the sump plug is and is leaking diesel.

My Damage Report.

Smashed belt idler bearing
Just about to let go a/c idler bearing
A now very jumpy clutch - Shudders
Water logged headlights and indicators
All brake calipers need to be removed and properly cleaned.
Radiator fins blocked.
Effing mud in every bloody place in and under the car!

Ugh! You think I would learn. But I just can't help myself. From now on. No more bog holes!

[cgm]

... From now on. No more bog holes!

At least until next time ... ha ha ha ha

It was good entertainment for the rest of us.

[mudski]

At least until next time ... ha ha ha ha

It was good entertainment for the rest of us.

Nah I am serious Cameron. This has cost me dearly. I think the alternator is close to going ni ni's too. Most of its relatively easy to repair. I am quite worried about my clutch though. We are taking the camper up to Merimbula on the 12th and I am worried the clutch won't last the long haul. I have rang a few trust workshops today that I know and they will be closed for the first two weeks of Jan. As I was just going to get a new clutch put in, so then this won't be on my mind whilst driving up. Looks like I will have to risk it as I'm not doing it on the garage floor again. That was hell!

[cgm]

... I'm not doing it on the garage floor again. That was hell!

You are right, it really isn't worth it. Even the simple things like opening and drying out the lights still takes time, which is hard to find at this time of year. Just remember to repeat that it isn't worth it 10 times before driving in next time you are tempted. (at least that bit is for sure, it is tempting)

[krbrooking]

I don't really get the temptation to go through big holes. I much prefer the hill climbs, it's more of a challenge. Anyone can point forward and push the go peddle down and hope they make it out the other end, most big holes even just about steer for you as well. River/water crossings however are really fun and interesting and can be quite a challenge.

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[mudski]

Thats where my problem is. I have the temptation...Plus my daughter is always beside me, egging me on.

[jay see]

I helped a mate take out his v6 out of a runner and there was 1/2" of dry mud stuck around the inside of the bell housing and I drove my old surf into one to many blog holes at Wombat before it was on a flatbed.
Yep there fun to drive through as long as you make it out the other end.
Hills are more technical and more of a challenge.

[Sir Roofy]

my damage report.

smashed belt idler bearing
just about to let go a/c idler bearing
a now very jumpy clutch - shudders
water logged headlights and indicators
all brake calipers need to be removed and properly cleaned.
radiator fins blocked.
effing mud in every bloody place in and under the car!

ugh! You think i would learn. But i just can't help myself. From now on. No more bog holes!

till the next one ---just like ab cant help your self

[threedogs]

My Damage Report.

Smashed belt idler bearing
Just about to let go a/c idler bearing
A now very jumpy clutch - Shudders
Water logged headlights and indicators
All brake calipers need to be removed and properly cleaned.
Radiator fins blocked.
Effing mud in every bloody place in and under the car!

Ugh! You think I would learn. But I just can't help myself. From now on. No more bog holes!

And that's why some dont do bog holes any more,
for those that are Novices please heed the warning.
You may be stuck in the middle of the bush

[TPC]

My Damage Report.

Smashed belt idler bearing
Just about to let go a/c idler bearing
A now very jumpy clutch - Shudders
Water logged headlights and indicators
All brake calipers need to be removed and properly cleaned.
Radiator fins blocked.
Effing mud in every bloody place in and under the car!

Ugh! You think I would learn. But I just can't help myself. From now on. No more bog holes!

I learnt my lesson a few years ago at Loveday and nothing gets me into bogholes anymore.
Ten minutes of fun is not worth the countless issues it creates.

[threedogs]

Ive lost count of the times I've brought new radiators ,alternators.
replaced headlights and endless $$$$$ cleaning the engine bay let alone the underneath.

[Paule]

Well gave the troll a blast with the high pressure washer at the local car wash about 3 mins up the road from my place on Tuesday night. Didn't do the engine bay, but did the under carriage. Now it's making a sound like I've done a bearing in the turbo. It doesn't make sense that it would happen after washing it? The car was not hot when I washed it. Any clues? Sounds like a dry bearing

[mudnut]

The high pressure water has probably entered the tensioner pulley bearing under the aircon compressor.

[growler2058]

Thrust bearing??

[Paule]

Thrust bearing??

It's auto, but thanks for the reply.

[Paule]

The high pressure water has probably entered the tensioner pulley bearing under the aircon compressor.

Cheers mate that makes more sense than the turbo, I'll try n check it

[Hodge]

Cheers mate that makes more sense than the turbo, I'll try n check it

Hey mate. I had the exact dilemma after out last outing through Wombat forest. The bog holes and/or me washing the engine bay afterwards, stuffed my tensioner pulley bearing.


http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?30376-Squealing-belt-and-or-pulley

[mudski]

Well gave the troll a blast with the high pressure washer at the local car wash about 3 mins up the road from my place on Tuesday night. Didn't do the engine bay, but did the under carriage. Now it's making a sound like I've done a bearing in the turbo. It doesn't make sense that it would happen after washing it? The car was not hot when I washed it. Any clues? Sounds like a dry bearing

I reckon its going to be one of two things Paule. Both I have just replaced in the last two days.

Fan belt idler pulley bearing
Air Cond idler bearing.


Take the belt off and spin both of these pulleys. The a/c bearing takes around three hours to replace. You need a three jaw gear puller to remove the pulley from the pump, and a press to remove and refit the bearing from the pulley. The replacement bearing is around $40 from a reputable bearing shop. The a/c pump on these motors is in a terrible spot, down low and it cops everything. This is the second bearing I have replaced in the 2.5years I have owned the car. I now keep one spare in my tool box.
If the a/c idler is dry, squirt a shit load of CRC or Inox behind the front cover over the pump to clean the crap out. It may help but if the bearing is fubar, it will need to be replaced. I would say I could do the a/c bearing for you as I have the tools to do it and I have done it twice before, but I have been told there is two different pumps used, so the bearing will be different and I haven't worked out how to identify the differences. any a/c mob could replace it for you though.
The idler pulley bearing, you can use a 62032RS bearing but its 2mm narrower than the OEM bearing. A WC85703 bearing is .3mm wider than OEM but is still good. You need a vice or a press to remove and refit too. One eBay there is the cheap aftermarket ider pulley assemblies. Around $80 they are. Good to replace if you are stuck but shithouse to rely on. The little dampener lasted around 6months I think on mine before it blew up and spewed oil all over a good belt. Now the bearing has shat itself in a big way.

Cheers.
Mark

[MEGOMONSTER]

My damage report. Dinged the sub tank in the corner where the sump plug is and is leaking diesel. Fix it report and cost.
Cost $0.00
It was a loose sump bung, got tightened, now no leaks.
But have no found the fog light out on the bull bar and the trailer socket has the flapping lid break off.

[mudski]

Fix it report and cost.
Cost $0.00
It was a loose sump bung, got tightened, now no leaks.
But have no found the fog light out on the bull bar and the trailer socket has the flapping lid break off.

Still going with my repairs. Lol.

My Damage Report.

Smashed belt idler bearing - Fixed
Just about to let go a/c idler bearing - Fixed
A now very jumpy clutch - Shudders - Bled the clutch fluid, tis' a little better but the thrust bearing is noisy a hell. Still jumpy too.
Water logged headlights and indicators - See pic, doing this now :(
All brake calipers need to be removed and properly cleaned. - Yet to do...
Radiator fins blocked. - Yet to do
Effing mud in every bloody place in and under the car! - Got most of it...
Suspect alternator too! I get wierd noises under the hood whilst revving the motor, sound like the alternator brushes are fubar! Dunno though. Will get to it though.



I have also put new gearbox oil in, I will be doing the LSD, transfer case and front diff too. Plus remove the front hubs and check for water.

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=52879&stc=1

[Drewboyaus]

To the guys who went on this trip, I've been carefully considering whether to post but feel I should set the record straight as it has been bothering me.

It was a good effort by everyone to run the trip with the last minute withdrawal of Jonathan however I'm very concerned about people turning around on a steep hill climb and I believe I should point out the danger involved. I'm not having a go at anyone here by the way, just feel I should point out to the novices on that trip that there is a correct way to approach that situation.

Steep and challenging hill climbs should only be approached and attempted one car at a time and either straight up or straight back and that particular hill is probably on the "significantly challenging" side of things for a novice 4WDer because of how loose it is together with the steep gradient. Those cars that were stuck on the hill should have winched to the top (if it couldn't be driven) as one or two did or reversed the entire way back to the beginning. The opportunity for a roll-over on that hill was huge particularly with a number of inexperienced (relatively) people there. Being on such a slope particularly one with such an unstable base means it takes such a small amount to put a vehicle out of balance. Many people here commented on the Range Rover roll over video that is posted in another thread and if you haven't seen it you should check it out as it really shows how little it takes to totally shift the balance of a vehicle and send it back down a hill in a hurry. The (significantly) lesser risk was to proceed forward to the top.
It was a great opportunity to set up a vehicle to winch or snatch those who needed help up that hill for some good old fashioned recovery technique practise.

Anyway, like I said before I'm not having a go at anyone, I really just wanted to highlight just how dangerous turning around on a steep climb is and perhaps what an appropriate alternative course of action could have been.
Cheers,
Drew

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[mudski]

Yes I hear you Drew. Having said that, too me in the car it felt worse than what it was actually standing on the ground. The other guys were no way as near concerned as I was. We had a sectioned that leveled off more than the track wre we used as the turning point. If it wasnt safe to do so I would not have done it I tell you. It just that feeling you have of the car leaning in a direction your not used too.

[Winnie]

To the guys who went on this trip, I've been carefully considering whether to post but feel I should set the record straight as it has been bothering me.

It was a good effort by everyone to run the trip with the last minute withdrawal of Jonathan however I'm very concerned about people turning around on a steep hill climb and I believe I should point out the danger involved. I'm not having a go at anyone here by the way, just feel I should point out to the novices on that trip that there is a correct way to approach that situation.

Steep and challenging hill climbs should only be approached and attempted one car at a time and either straight up or straight back and that particular hill is probably on the "significantly challenging" side of things for a novice 4WDer because of how loose it is together with the steep gradient. Those cars that were stuck on the hill should have winched to the top (if it couldn't be driven) as one or two did or reversed the entire way back to the beginning. The opportunity for a roll-over on that hill was huge particularly with a number of inexperienced (relatively) people there. Being on such a slope particularly one with such an unstable base means it takes such a small amount to put a vehicle out of balance. Many people here commented on the Range Rover roll over video that is posted in another thread and if you haven't seen it you should check it out as it really shows how little it takes to totally shift the balance of a vehicle and send it back down a hill in a hurry. The (significantly) lesser risk was to proceed forward to the top.
It was a great opportunity to set up a vehicle to winch or snatch those who needed help up that hill for some good old fashioned recovery technique practise.

Anyway, like I said before I'm not having a go at anyone, I really just wanted to highlight just how dangerous turning around on a steep climb is and perhaps what an appropriate alternative course of action could have been.
Cheers,
Drew

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Great post Drew.

[Drewboyaus]

Yes I hear you Drew. Having said that, too me in the car it felt worse than what it was actually standing on the ground. The other guys were no way as near concerned as I was. We had a sectioned that leveled off more than the track wre we used as the turning point. If it wasnt safe to do so I would not have done it I tell you. It just that feeling you have of the car leaning in a direction your not used too.

That may be but its not a good technique to be teaching the novices that were there. It's the first thing you get taught in the beginner driver training courses accredited by 4WD Vic.
I don't want to get into an argument about it because I wasn't there (unfortunately) but there are better ways to deal with the situation.

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[cgm]

It's hard to comment on the specifics as we were at the bottom and I never saw the hill, but all of what you've said Drew is really good advice. No one should be offended by what you've said. Even for the guys that were obviously experienced enough to do it and get away with it (they did come back down without incident), it is probably good to think about for next time. I think an additional issue for the trip was that the group was too big for a single convoy (12 vehicles I think) in that hilly area. This put pressure on those up front to try and keep things moving. I don't know, but am guessing this added to the decision to avoid the winching if it wasn't necessary. Next time with such a big group we probably should bite the bullet and split in two, just to take that pressure off.

Most of my hill climb stuff has been in the dunes. It is the same golden rule there that in any hill situation to keep the pointy end pointing up. I've seen a few videos on youtube recently where they have rolled on a hill and you would not have thought it was going to happen. It's a good reminder that it obviously doesn't take much, so thanks for posting.

[Winnie]

The title of the trip was "novice trip", sorry but you guys should not have been anywhere near that track. It's full on and not for novices

[Hodge]

Drew has a very good point, and I'm glad he has brought this up again, as that moment has popped up in my head a few times everytime I watch 4x4 vids or talk about it.
It may or may not have been my idea initially to reverse down a bit and turn around. I honestly cannot remember how it ended up being decided..
From my personal point of view, and I think I've mentioned it before, I've never been in such a scenario so, inexperience and lack of judgement kicked in. I looked up, and saw the hill ahead and went "oh s#it". Then I looked down and saw all the cars still coming up, and again, "oh s#it".

I think at that point I was talking to Bacho86 about turning around, as there was a kind of a flat spot just there. There was no point attempting to drive up as, up the top was a dead end. Mego, fletch and sean smashed and winched their way to the top.
3 cars turned around, and 1 reversed down further from memory. Cars were never gonna roll I don't think, it just felt "wrong". Still doesn't make it right though. In the end I walked to the car to reverse down my self, and Big mego and fletch were just ahead and in the end i decided ferk it, and drove it.
No blame game, purely just in-experience. My 5 cents.

[cgm]

The title of the trip was "novice trip", sorry but you guys should not have been anywhere near that track. It's full on and not for novices

Part of the turn around issue Winnie was that the first few said it wasn't suitable for the rest of us to come up. That's why I never saw it. I think everyone has learnt a bit out of the situation for the future and why discussing it is good value. The whole day had quite a few surprises, not the least of which being the bad news for BA riding on everyone's mind. Then having to "wing" it for where we were going.

I don't think it is fair to judge from a distance with such a strong statement (no one planned to do a difficult hill). But I think everyone would agree it's something to learn from and do differently next time.

Paule was the least experienced and took to it naturally doing an excellent job, but I would have preferred we also did a bit more of a walk through on the basics. There is a good reason why most of the clubs insist on doing the course before taking members on any significant trip.

In reality it appeared everyone else had at least some experience and probably didn't fit the "novice" category.

[Drewboyaus]

I would have preferred we also did a bit more of a walk through on the basics..

Ordinarily BA or I or another experienced member would have gone through the basics and the "rules for the day" as everyone aired down at the start but as we know, unfortunately circumstances intervened.
Like I said before, I don't want to be critical of any individuals because the trip leader/organiser wasn't able to get there due to mechanical failure and others made it happen and all-in-all sounded like a good day out.
Perhaps too, there is something to be learned by way of making sure that there is a trip plan or track list that can be shared amongst a couple of other members in case a similar circumstance occurs in the future. Also making sure everyone who goes has the correct paper map of the area. That way, you guys would have never wound up on that hill.
Live and learn.......

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[cgm]

... and all-in-all sounded like a good day out.
... Live and learn.......

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It was still a great day out, fair to say enjoyed by all. (Even mudski, he's just peen paying a heavy price for our entertainment since - ha ha)

I think the learn bit is still important and think everyone has and can always continue to do so. Thanks for pushing us to all learn something more out of it.

Would be great if you are up to joining us next time Drew. Really hope to meet you on a trip one day. Hope things are still on the up for you leading into Christmas. Was really great to hear they let you home early.

[Paule]

I think I was the only newbie on this trip, I learnt heaps, got to see some different types of recoveries, and everyone was great in offering all kinds of advice. We did do 1 at a time on the hill climbs and walked through em before having a crack. Except for the one where some people had to turn around (i think). I didn't have a crack at the hill that some people turned around on, because of the one at a time rule and also because of what the leaders were saying on the UHF. I did see the footage of the well setup gq roll over before I did this trip, and was amazed at how easy and quickly things can go wrong. I certainly didn't want this happening to me and my kids, so I was quite cautious and wasn't about to do anything I wasn't comfortable doing. I have learnt heaps from everyone on this forum and just learnt some more. Re : turning around on hill climbs. I think common sense, (not so common anymore) and err on the side of caution should prevail. Which is what I think happened on this trip. I didn't see anyone turn around on the hill climb as I was still at the bottom, so I can only assume. Just glad it all worked out ok. Thanks for the heads up Drew

[MudRunnerTD]

Thanks for your posts Drew, i have not watched the videos but am very concerned that guys turned around mid hill. I also note the level of recoveries taking place on a Novice day. At a Club level a Novice day presents a Easy trip that a Novice can attend to get a taste for going offroad. The chance of Vehicle Damage on a Novice day should be nearly non-existant. Infact the chances of requiring a Snatch Strap at worst is low.

I also offer a No Disrespect intended opinion here guys as i was not there either. I have driven in Tallarook before though and done a couple of hills that IMO we simply had No Business being on on an Easy Medium day. There is No Point taking a group of inexperienced drivers without a formal Education up a Hill that will likely require a Winch stage. Ever. Luck should not play a part in your day. It did here though.

I Understand that BA was not there and the group had to wing it and this may have contributed to the tracks driven. The group of 12 is getting big and it is recommended by 4WD Vic that a group should not be bigger than 10 to manage it better, but 12 is not like 22 and was not the main problem here. At the end of the day only half the group went up the hill anyway and had to turn around mid hill. It was a Dead End anyway and therefore should not have been attempted. Regardless, 6 cars or 12 cars, at least half the group should not have driven up that hill.

We as a group need to be very mindful if we are going to lead a trip that we understand who is with us, how much they know, what they are expecting and where the track goes. I get away with a "Come what May" attitude but am very well experienced, and fully Self Recoverable and understand how to use my gear and the capabilities of my cars and what to do when it goes pear shaped.

Just be very careful guys, we are here for a good time, most people dont want to wreck their cars. I love to see Trips arising from this forum to be Well managed, Well attended, Memorable and highly anticipated for fun not damage. Be Safe. Plan an Easy trip to be an Introduction to 4wdriving. Nearly not even Low Range. There is Plenty at Tallarook that fits this bill.

If your leading a trip You need to Manage the weakest link. They determine everything, you cant just drag them up the hill. What if they panic because they are way way over their head? It can go to Sh1t very very quickly.

This is offered in Friendship and i dont mean to offend anyone that was on the trip. I was a Driving Instructor and Recovery instructor at a Club level for a long time, i have seen a Bad Day. I know how inexperienced people think and have seen many bad decisions. I will pull you up immediately if you are with me, rest assured.


Oh.... I Hate Mud.....imagine parking your car in Liquid Grinding Paste, you will pay in the coming weeks not that day.......:p

[Winnie]

Do you remember the hill in question Darren? The one me, you and Rossco drove while everybody else winched. It was not a dead end but we went back down it to find your mud flap.

[Bloodyaussie]

Rossco winched also...

[MudRunnerTD]

Do you remember the hill in question Darren? The one me, you and Rossco drove while everybody else winched. It was not a dead end but we went back down it to find your mud flap.

Yeah Bugger! is that the hill where guys turned around? Healy got stuck half way up. Irish turned around at the bottom and did not even attempt it having done it weeks earlier. Good Call that day too. Yeah bugger. That is a Big Hill with a significant obstacle mid hill being the railway ballast a metre deep, once through the Ballast it goes off camber to the right. Oh well its done. Just be safe guys is all i ask.

[Winnie]

Rossco winched also...

He is a crap driver though. He got lockers now so he can keep up

[threedogs]

What I take on all this is that I hope you dont develop bad habits, no saying anyone has as, I havent been wheeling with anyone here.
For you own sake join a club and do their driver awareness course, most are free as part of your membership.
You will then have training to the same standard as someone from any other club by an accredited trainer.
Then you can go out with your new found knowledge with some others mates and test your skills.
4x4ing is about fun not breaking or damaging 4x4s.

[Alitis007]

Yeah Bugger! is that the hill where guys turned around? Healy got stuck half way up. Irish turned around at the bottom and did not even attempt it having done it weeks earlier. Good Call that day too. Yeah bugger. That is a Big Hill with a significant obstacle mid hill being the railway ballast a metre deep, once through the Ballast it goes off camber to the right. Oh well its done. Just be safe guys is all i ask.

I did that hill, stopped a third of the way up to help my mate get back on his dirt bike while Jonathan winched then after he was clear I made my way up thru it without needind a winch

[Drewboyaus]

I did that hill, stopped a third of the way up to help my mate get back on his dirt bike while Jonathan winched then after he was clear I made my way up thru it without needind a winch

Yeah, but you've got a locker Mr Ti..... LOL

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[Winnie]

Yeah, but you've got a locker Mr Ti..... LOL

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Only rear though, not really much different to the LSD

[Hodge]

I was too hypo on that hill that i forgot to punch the locker in. I made it though no dramas, as Mego and 2 other cars, cleared a fair bit of the loose crap on their way up.

[Drewboyaus]

I was too hypo on that hill that i forgot to punch the locker in. I made it though no dramas, as Mego and 2 other cars, cleared a fair bit of the loose crap on their way up.

Nice drive sir!

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[Maxhead]

I blame BA for pulling out...softcock!

[Alitis007]

Yeah, but you've got a locker Mr Ti..... LOL

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And no lift! And had to regain momentum which is a pain but for those that went up and sort of know the gradient I had trouble standing on that hill and I wouldn't even think of turning around even with my lack of experience


Only rear though, not really much different to the LSD
Yeah what he said Drew!!

[Drewboyaus]

I'd have a locker instead of my LSD any day of the week.

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[cgm]

What I take on all this is that I hope you dont develop bad habits, no saying anyone has as, I havent been wheeling with anyone here.
For you own sake join a club and do their driver awareness course, most are free as part of your membership.
You will then have training to the same standard as someone from any other club by an accredited trainer.
Then you can go out with your new found knowledge with some others mates and test your skills.
4x4ing is about fun not breaking or damaging 4x4s.

I was going to suggest this here too. For any newbie, I reckon joining a local 4wd club, even just to do the basic accredited course is worth it. It can be a bit like coming here for the manuals. You might get what you want and move on or you might make some friends and stay. Like any place with people there can be politics and crap, but that will vary from club to club and time to time.

On the course they will cover all the basics as they have to to deliver the accredited course. One thing that is definitely covered is hill stop/start techniques and when I did it years ago we went and practiced with an instructor in the car. Even nervous participants were well looked after.

I went into the day expecting most of it to be a waste of time and a lot of it was common sense that I already knew. However I had a really good instructor and there were some good tips and reminders. Also I had never touched on the hill start/stop techniques so thought that alone was worth it.

Really encourage "novices" to think about it. Club membership normally is the only cost and it is a cheap way to do the training.

[Bloodyaussie]

I have stayed out of this for a number of reasons from being sick plus depressed and just plain pissed I was not there..

Now when I was sitting on the side of the freeway for over an hour waiting for a taxi I gave it a bit of thought and was a little worried but thought mick had the snail trail from the last time we came so should be right... did not expect them to take the wrong turn up that hill as it is a tough son of a bitch.

I received a phone call from someone who was there and they had major concerns about cars turning around on that hill..

I am concerned also that novices may have the wrong idea about a few things and I hope I can get back out to lead another group.
This time it will be no more than 8 cars total and it will be for novices that have not really been.. I will hsve one other experienced car along so that is 6 novices.

Now that hill may have changed slightly from the last time but no matter it is still tough.. I have winched 4 times and only darren winnie and George have made it unaided and about 15 cars in total that have been with me have winched.

Turning around on a hill is a big no no and there has to be huge exception to this.
52998

[lucus30]

I have stayed out of this for a number of reasons from being sick plus depressed and just plain pissed I was not there..

Now when I was sitting on the side of the freeway for over an hour waiting for a taxi I gave it a bit of thought and was a little worried but thought mick had the snail trail from the last time we came so should be right... did not expect them to take the wrong turn up that hill as it is a tough son of a bitch.

I received a phone call from someone who was there and they had major concerns about cars turning around on that hill..

I am concerned also that novices may have the wrong idea about a few things and I hope I can get back out to lead another group.
This time it will be no more than 8 cars total and it will be for novices that have not really been.. I will hsve one other experienced car along so that is 6 novices.

Now that hill may have changed slightly from the last time but no matter it is still tough.. I have winched 4 times and only darren winnie and George have made it unaided and about 15 cars in total that have been with me have winched.

Turning around on a hill is a big no no and there has to be huge exception to this.
52998

I'll come on your next one BA

[Rossco]

He is a crap driver though. He got lockers now so he can keep up

Yep - All the Gear and No Idea!!! Ha Ha Ha!!


Yeah Bugger! is that the hill where guys turned around? Healy got stuck half way up. Irish turned around at the bottom and did not even attempt it having done it weeks earlier. Good Call that day too. Yeah bugger. That is a Big Hill with a significant obstacle mid hill being the railway ballast a metre deep, once through the Ballast it goes off camber to the right. Oh well its done. Just be safe guys is all i ask.

I did manage to drive it, tried to winch Healy with the stanch block from beside him but the bloody rope was spinning on the drum, so had to give it a go. It is a pretty nasty hill that one, verrrry loose surface, like driving in a ball pit. Sounds like a few lessons learn but overall a good day out, everyone is safe at the end of the day.

[Bloodyaussie]

Yep - All the Gear and No Idea!!! Ha Ha Ha!!



I did manage to drive it, tried to winch Healy with the stanch block from beside him but the bloody rope was spinning on the drum, so had to give it a go. It is a pretty nasty hill that one, verrrry loose surface, like driving in a ball pit. Sounds like a few lessons learn but overall a good day out, everyone is safe at the end of the day.

Ahh thats right sorry Rossco how could I have doubted you.

[Rossco]

Yep :)

[Winnie]

Ahh thats right sorry Rossco how could I have doubted you.

See... I knew he could do it, I never doubted you man!

[krbrooking]

Well I have been out to tallarook quite a few times now, every time with BA. A lot of those times have been with novices. Both Drew and Dazz have very good points, you should really try not turn around on any hill. I have only ever been with someone that has done it, once. There was no going forward even with a winch and there was no other choice and we used measures to make it as safe as possible. I am by no means overly experienced but I am not a novice either. The hill in question was not the one I think everyone is thinking of it is the other side of the really bad one that Healy got stuck on and is not as hairy as that one as far as I know (I did not go up it). Not that it matters but I don't think there wasn't as many ppl that went up, from memory there was still 7 or 8 down the bottom. As far as I was aware everyone was comfortable with the tracks we were doing. The ppl that got recovered were from there own choices, I think Lucas was the only one that was recovered due to misfortune (other than the hill in question). I also think that the ppl that were up the hill had enough experience to make a judgement call on the situation at hand. I do think the basics had been gone over in the beginning but I could be wrong about that. Anyway like said before no point in the he said she said and there is a lesson to be learnt by everyone.

[MEGOMONSTER]

All this is sort of my fault as I was following the tracker from our last trip there and couldn't tel if we turned left or right. And I chose right. Track was easy till the end. Sorry didn't want it to end that way.

I did my best to make it an easy day.

[sooty_10]

Mego it was a great day and the tracks we traversed were suited to novices. Those that got recovered were not novices and chose to take a more optional route. Myself and most of the guys didn't go up that hill and I'm sure decisions were made based on what the situation actually was on the ground. The guys at the bottom took your word for the fact that it wasn't suitable for the novices and stayed were we were. All in all you did a great job of leading the trip and everyone had a great time and learnt a bit at the same time. It was definitely a shame BA was unable to make it, but you definitely did a good job in the end and nothing we encountered was not suitable for novices.

[krbrooking]

Mego it is not your fault at all like Sooty said you did an awesome. Like we have both said as well the ppl the that got stuck "chose" to do so. It was not ideal turning around on the hill but only the ppl on the hill can comment on that. Yes it is not best practice and should be avoided (which we all know now) but it has been done (without incident). I don't think Drew intended on this turning into a debate, I believe he just wanted to point out the risks of turning around on a hill for those that were not aware. Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

[Hodge]

All this is sort of my fault as I was following the tracker from our last trip there and couldn't tel if we turned left or right. And I chose right. Track was easy till the end. Sorry didn't want it to end that way.

I did my best to make it an easy day.

What a crock of s#it mate. The whole day was great!!! You were probably the most experienced there, and we took a wrong turn so what. Live and learn.
And as per one of my previous posts before. Thank you for leading the day mate!

[Winnie]

So did anybody make it up the hill without winching?

[Drewboyaus]

All this is sort of my fault as I was following the tracker from our last trip there and couldn't tel if we turned left or right. And I chose right. Track was easy till the end. Sorry didn't want it to end that way. I did my best to make it an easy day.

It's nobody's fault mate. I wasn't pointing the finger at anyone, It happened. It's over. Everyone had a great day. Don't worry about it.

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[Drewboyaus]

I don't think Drew intended on this turning into a debate, I believe he just wanted to point out the risks of turning around on a hill for those that were not aware. Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

Spot on.

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[Hodge]

So did anybody make it up the hill without winching?

Yes, my self, Mego and big fletch.

[Hodge]

The hill in question was not the one I think everyone is thinking of it is the other side of the really bad one that Healy got stuck on and is not as hairy as that one as far as I know (I did not go up it). Not that it matters but I don't think there wasn't as many ppl that went up, from memory there was still 7 or 8 down the bottom. As far as I was aware everyone was comfortable with the tracks we were doing

The track we were on, is a continuation of the very first steep rock steps we encountered (Jenkin Track), after we aired down, the ones we didn't do. But we entered that track, from the east.
As per my pic here, bottom circled flag is the rocky steps, and the top circled flag is the track in question.

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=53007&stc=1

[krbrooking]

Here are some of the pics I got, I am uploading my vids onto you tube as we speak and will load the link here once it is done.


53013

53008

53009

53010

53011

53012

[Winnie]

Yes, my self, Mego and big fletch.

Awesome work, it is a tough track

[Drewboyaus]

Awesome work, it is a tough track

Shhhhh.....they're all GU's......

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[lucus30]

All this is sort of my fault as I was following the tracker from our last trip there and couldn't tel if we turned left or right. And I chose right. Track was easy till the end. Sorry didn't want it to end that way.

I did my best to make it an easy day.

As the others said. You did a great job leading and nobody got stuck that wasn't their own choice in the scheme of things.
I enjoyed and had a great day out and look forward to the next one.

Trust me I've been there and done that leading trips in area's i'm not overly familiar with a number of novices and I tell you what I hate it as I worry that I'll lead them into a track where they will damage their cars
Even area's I know well tracks can change week to week and you just never know


Shhhhh.....they're all GU's......

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Go the mighty GU's!!!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Evjz88G7X-M

He He thanks Kev ripped one of your videos before you could post ha ha

[krbrooking]

Here are the vids.


http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLqUxSw_EQ3w1owqbY2m_vBAVpsIJb69cw

[lucus30]

Its interesting watching videos of yourself driving its not something i get to see very often. Thanks Kev

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Evjz88G7X-M

[Paule]

All this is sort of my fault as I was following the tracker from our last trip there and couldn't tel if we turned left or right. And I chose right. Track was easy till the end. Sorry didn't want it to end that way.

I did my best to make it an easy day.

Mego, thank you very much for stepping up and taking the lead after BA's misfortune. I don't feel I was lead up the garden path, so to speak. And hey one wrong turn, that's a bloody good effort. You where only only 50% wrong. Lol. I had a awesome day and look forward to the next one.

[krbrooking]

This is 2 vids of that corner that Mudski got bogged in just to show how different it was back then. you can see how much deeper it is now.

http://youtu.be/TzIMqzfp8Mo

http://youtu.be/SAPEw0UWLq0

Not the best example but you can see how close an 80 got to getting out.

[Hodge]

This is 2 vids of that corner that Mudski got bogged in just to show how different it was back then. you can see how much deeper it is now.

http://youtu.be/TzIMqzfp8Mo

http://youtu.be/SAPEw0UWLq0

Not the best example but you can see how close an 80 got to getting out.


Good comparo mate. ON our last Tallarook outing in April, there was not even water in it. Everyone waltzed through it.
I remember that bloke driving the 80, from Wombat run??? He was in a red GQ from memory.

[krbrooking]

Good comparo mate. ON our last Tallarook outing in April, there was not even water in it. Everyone waltzed through it.
I remember that bloke driving the 80, from Wombat run??? He was in a red GQ from memory.

Yes you are right man, he is lucky enough to own both of them, also one of the best blokes I have met.

[Hodge]

And here is BA going down that first Jenkins rock steps, look at it compared to few weekends ago, now it's much steeper and sharper. absolute tire shredder the way it is now.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gf1BdsDrH4c

[mudski]

This is 2 vids of that corner that Mudski got bogged in just to show how different it was back then. you can see how much deeper it is now.

http://youtu.be/TzIMqzfp8Mo

http://youtu.be/SAPEw0UWLq0

Not the best example but you can see how close an 80 got to getting out.

Big difference hey!
Cars now booked it at JPC on the 6th for a noo clutch. Clutch has started to come good, or better, but the thrust bearing is noisy as hell and i dont want to take the chance of it letting go whilst towing the camper. I contemplated doing it on the garage floor again but it needs too many hands to do it plus I will have time to get more work done before we go away on the 12th.

[cgm]

All this talk back and forth - ha ha.

I want to go back and have a "not" novice day. Then we can drive wherever and get lost or stuck or winch, etc and have a ball. No issues. :)

More than happy to follow where you're leading Mego! It was a great day.

[cgm]

Here are the vids.


http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLqUxSw_EQ3w1owqbY2m_vBAVpsIJb69cw

Thanks Kevin, it's nice to see a bit of your own truck. It's funny to watch the Jack and contrast it to all the Patrols. Your video is up nice and close when I did that jump sideways. You can see it is wound up too much and there is basically no down travel in the suspension. All the time it wants to lift a front wheel. Can see why Mego was laughing about it on the day. The locker will help compensate a bit when it goes in. After watching that I'm gonna wind it down a bit to make a compromise between clearance and travel, not that it will make much difference. Compare that to the patrols and they just keep their feet on the ground.

[krbrooking]

Yeah You are so right Cameron, I must admit I did take a deep breath when you jumped up on all 4's the way you did. Filming and taking pics is one of my favourite thing about wheeling

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[Bacho86]

All this is sort of my fault as I was following the tracker from our last trip there and couldn't tel if we turned left or right. And I chose right. Track was easy till the end. Sorry didn't want it to end that way.

I did my best to make it an easy day.


Whilst this was my first trip out with everyone, I had a great day and thought in BA's absence you and everyone else stepped up and managed the large group really well! And like others said I think we all learnt a few things from that day

Definately looking forward to the next trip!

[Bloodyaussie]

All this is sort of my fault as I was following the tracker from our last trip there and couldn't tel if we turned left or right. And I chose right. Track was easy till the end. Sorry didn't want it to end that way.

I did my best to make it an easy day.

You big lug...... there is no finger pointing at all just learning from experience that is all.

To lead a large group out is not easy when you do not know the terrain, this is why when I go out to test or to take out newby's I go to Tallarook as I know the place so well and little chance of that nasty surprise.

So when I am back on the road who wants to come out for a play... being I have been stuck at home for 2 weeks now, I like going driving on News Day as its quiet and I am not one to get blotto drunk anymore.. thats of course my car is ready???

[Hodge]

So when I am back on the road who wants to come out for a play... being I have been stuck at home for 2 weeks now, I like going driving on News Day as its quiet and I am not one to get blotto drunk anymore.. thats of course my car is ready???

Hell farkin' yeah.

[lucus30]

You big lug...... there is no finger pointing at all just learning from experience that is all.

To lead a large group out is not easy when you do not know the terrain, this is why when I go out to test or to take out newby's I go to Tallarook as I know the place so well and little chance of that nasty surprise.

So when I am back on the road who wants to come out for a play... being I have been stuck at home for 2 weeks now, I like going driving on News Day as its quiet and I am not one to get blotto drunk anymore.. thats of course my car is ready???

Sounds good though on new years I'll be at Eildon

[MEGOMONSTER]

Don't worry about it.

I wasn't and won't. LOL

I was just saying, I made the wrong turn.

[MEGOMONSTER]

So did anybody make it up the hill without winching?

Yeah me, Little BigFletch (LOL), ummmmmm maybe Hodge I think.

Two others winched up.

[MEGOMONSTER]

All this talk back and forth - ha ha. I want to go back and have a "not" novice day. Then we can drive wherever and get lost or stuck or winch, etc and have a ball. No issues. :) More than happy to follow where you're leading Mego! It was a great day.

Yeah lets watch Mick go through shit that the rest of us might. Lol

[MEGOMONSTER]

You big lug...... there is no finger pointing at all just learning from experience that is all. To lead a large group out is not easy when you do not know the terrain, this is why when I go out to test or to take out newby's I go to Tallarook as I know the place so well and little chance of that nasty surprise. So when I am back on the road who wants to come out for a play... being I have been stuck at home for 2 weeks now, I like going driving on News Day as its quiet and I am not one to get blotto drunk anymore.. thats of course my car is ready???

If this happens, I'll try and get away from Yarrawonga back to Tallarook.

[Bacho86]

So when I am back on the road who wants to come out for a play... being I have been stuck at home for 2 weeks now, I like going driving on News Day as its quiet and I am not one to get blotto drunk anymore.. thats of course my car is ready???

I'll be up in the high country for New Years, but otherwise sounds like a great plan!

[DIL380]

BAHH, missed this one! Been away with work. BA's Tallarook one in Apr was great (even though I had to bug out early) Living the single life this year with the fam in Canberra so keen for the next organised trip (work & home visits depending). Got myself a roof rack & recovery points now so not so much stock as a rock like last time