Solar power help please.

[fracster]

Bit of a long shot, but you guys know about stuff like this,so here goes:

I`m setting up a project to get kingfishers fishing out of a purpose built tank stocked with young trout.

The tank will be in the middle of the woods, next to an existing pond and within 5 meters of a stream. As such, no electricity is available to me.

What I want to do is, initially,fill the tank with water from the stream then fit an aereater and a small pump that will top up the tank with water from the nearby stream. The water from the stream runs all year round so is always fresh and not brackish as the pond is in summer. I figured that a small car battery would suffice, but I would need a solar panel to keep the battery alive. What size panel would I need to realistically keep the system live all summer?

The water would need to be pumped about 5 meters with a two meter lift, i`m thinking of using small bore pipe and a windscreen washer pump.

The set up maybe hibernated during the winter,dunno yet, will cross that bridge when I get to it.

[threedogs]

hI mate Bob uses a very small 12v battery for his Pump not much bigger than a cigarette box.
I small 10 or 20watt panel should do the job, Bobs pump will lift water a good 15ft without priming.
Might be worth sending him a PM with the time difference, He has a 140 watt folding panel but too big for what you want.
Check how many amp hours are on the pump, that will determine panel size and battery size

FYI I run a car radio/cd player and led lights in my back yard using a deep cycle 18 ah battery the size of a motorbike battery
and top it up with a 20 watt panel, no problems to date

[TazManiac]

It really all depends on the power usage of the pumps. You would need to calculate how many amp hours you need to run for 24 hours and then calculate how much power you can realistically harvest from a solar panel in your area at the time of year that you will have the least daylight hours. It's always easier to go bigger than required but that's really just a waste of money.

The battery needs to have enough amp hours to be able to last 72 hours without a charge, to protect for overcast days etc. It's also for this reason that people generally choose a panel that is slightly larger than required.

If you have some specifics on the pumps you're planning to use (amps or watts) then we can give you more accurate answers.

[Bob]

I don't have the Battery on my Pump connected to the Solar Panel as the Pump is only used once or twice a Day for about ten minutes and therefor lasts for the duration of our trip 4/5 Days.
As threedogs says a 20 Watt Solar Panel should be quite sufficient to keep your Battery topped up

Contact Cuppa as he is the Solar Panel GURU on here

[megatexture]

As your a pom and the weather is probably crap you could consider wind power if that's more suited?


Depending on the tank size and fish stock numbers I would consider having no aeration and just put all your power to the water pump even have it on a timer 2hrs on 1 hr off , if you prefer to aerate just make sure you get a min of 25% water change weekly or ammonia will wipe out your stock. And have the outlet to the tank come from the bottom to help aid in removal of the fish waste.

[fracster]

I appreciate all the replies guys some good advice,thank you.

[Cuppa]

As your a pom and the weather is probably crap you could consider wind power if that's more suited?


Hmmm, I’d have to disagree with that on two fronts. 1. Most small wind generators require a constant supply of wind above a certain speed to generate useful power, & very few land based sites have this. (Work well on yachts though). Big generators such as on wind farms are a different proposition, but not for a project like this! 2. Most, if not all, small wind generators are fairly noisy which may not be desirable if the aim is to attract birdlife. Solar is the go (& cheaper to set up).

However the issue of crappy solar weather over there is an issue, although perhaps not as much as some might think. Although not Aussie style sunny, there is still plenty of light, & the generally cooler temperatures help the solar panels to be more efficient. An MPPT solar regulator in these circumstances may also provide greater benefit than it would over here too, but could be overkill - a bigger panel might be most cost effective.

Basically the answer that TazManiac has given is spot on.

You need to source a suitable pump for the job with as low a current consumption as possible. I would suggest that a windscreen washer pump may not be the most suitable & that slightly larger bore tubing may be better. There is less friction to be overcome with bigger pipe & you might find that a small ebay bilge pump will move more water for less amps. Or a pond pump intended for small fountains. Increasing water flow has the added benefit of not needing to separately power an aerator, intead the water can be more simply aerated by allowing the water from the pipe to splash down into the tank. Once you know the current requirements of the pump working out solar & battery size will be relatively simple.

Two important issues gleaned from a friends dabbles with aquaponics. a) the pump & aeration system has to be reliable or your fish will die. b) water temperature in the tank is important, if it gets too warm the fish will die. Using the right gear & ensuring a constant flow should take care of both aspects.

[megatexture]

Hmmm, I’d have to disagree with that on two fronts. 1. Most small wind generators require a constant supply of wind above a certain speed to generate useful poweThere very few land based sites have this. (Work well on yachts though). Big generators such as on wind farms are a different proposition, but not for a project like this! 2. Most, if not all, small wind generators are fairly noisy which may not be desirable if the aim is to attract birdlife. Solar is the go (& cheaper to set up).

However the issue of crappy solar weather over there is an issue, although perhaps not as much as some might think. Although not Aussie style sunny, there is still plenty of light, & the generally cooler temperatures help the solar panels to be more efficient. An MPPT solar regulator in these circumstances may also provide greater benefit than it would over here too, but could be overkill - a bigger panel might be most cost effective.

Basically the answer that TazManiac has given is spot on.

You need to source a suitable pump for the job with as low a current consumption as possible. I would suggest that a windscreen washer pump may not be the most suitable & that slightly larger bore tubing may be better. There is less friction to be overcome with bigger pipe & you might find that a small ebay bilge pump will move more water for less amps. Or a pond pump intended for small fountains. Increasing water flow has the added benefit of not needing to separately power an aerator, intead the water can be more simply aerated by allowing the water from the pipe to splash down into the tank. Once you know the current requirements of the pump working out solar & battery size will be relatively simple.

Two important issues gleaned from a friends dabbles with aquaponics. a) the pump & aeration system has to be reliable or your fish will die. b) water temperature in the tank is important, if it gets too warm the fish will die. Using the right gear & ensuring a constant flow should take care of both aspects.


That's why I said if it's more suited as only fracter knows what's better for his local conditions and as this may not have been an option he has considered it is worth a mention.

There is a wind generator around the corner I see almost every day mounted on a 10 mtr pole and in 10 yrs I have never seen it not not running and on top of that it's in a 6-700m2 block surrounded by houses and I wouldthink neighbors would have complained if it was loud

[fracster]

Thanks Cuppa, great info.

Mega, good idea but wind is not an option, the guy who owns the estate is pretty easy going, but he would not permit a wind turbine. So i`ll have to go with solar.

My thinking is that i will get the pump( small bilge pump sounds good) too switch on at regular intervals or if the water level drops below a certain level. Small battery under the tank and a solar panel would probably take care of that.

Just thinking aloud here, the tank could be sited near the stream, wonder if it is possible to run some pipe further upstream and let gravity take care of things?................hmmmm, may have a go at that.

[fracster]

This is what i`m hoping to attract:


http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk22/Fracster/Test4.jpg (http://s276.photobucket.com/user/Fracster/media/Test4.jpg.html)

[Bob]

Thanks Cuppa, great info.


Just thinking aloud here, the tank could be sited near the stream, wonder if it is possible to run some pipe further upstream and let gravity take care of things?................hmmmm, may have a go at that.

That is probably your best option and also cheapest

[Cuppa]

Just thinking aloud here, the tank could be sited near the stream, wonder if it is possible to run some pipe further upstream and let gravity take care of things?................hmmmm, may have a go at that.

Definitely worth a go. I know of a place which supplies all it’s water supply using this method on a larger scale.

MT, apologies if the way I put my words got you offside, not intended. Have a look at Collyn Rivers’ posts throughout a thread here (http://www.tracktrailerforums.com/index.php?topic=1291.0), where he explains why small wind generators are not very efficient.
I would doubt that the wind generator you refer to makes much outut at all if it is so quiet. The ones I’ve seen sound like a small jet before they make any useful power, & even then it’s not much.

[megatexture]

Sorry cuppa if my reply was blunt, I've been having to use my wife's phone and have managed to do double post and delete text just before sending so if it seems blunt it because I wrote it 3 times and it got shorter each time lol.

I don't know what setup he's got but I've been meaning to drop in one day and ask but it's not a small unit by the looks it would be at least 1.5 -2m in diameter and unlike the small ones I've seen going flat stick at the beach this one seems different.

Re: the link you put up your wheel track tv van link but I would be interested to have a read if you can put up the one your referring to

[Cuppa]

Re: the link you put up your wheel track tv van link but I would be interested to have a read if you can put up the one your referring to

Oops! :icon_bonk: Try this http://caravanersforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=53323&hilit=Wind+generator Collyn makes several posts in the thread.

[megatexture]

Cheers just had a read now and collyn seems dead against them almost like he owned shares in solar, then becomes frustrated and borderline arrogant when the op continues to discuss the wind gens. Every setup has different needs as your well aware.
Collyn was saying the design of turbine the op was looking at was inefficient but didn't suggest any other units that would/ may be better.

[mudski]

There was a guy here in OZ on eBay selling hydro powered generators. This might be an idea for you. Atleast the water is constantly flowing and you have no need to worry about the sun or wind.

Edit : I am pretty sure these are the guys. Scroll down this listing and you will see their 200W portable hydro generator...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Gold-Mining-Suction-Dredge-Electric-Portable-4-034-nozzle-/280633025861?nma=true&si=KSbzUVBxE7aeq9nAlPg7UnvTTTE%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

[TazManiac]

Just thinking aloud here, the tank could be sited near the stream, wonder if it is possible to run some pipe further upstream and let gravity take care of things?................hmmmm, may have a go at that.
If the stream is constantly flowing then this is a fantastic idea. Why waste time/money/effort if you could simply use a pipe from up hill and have it constantly circulating water. On the tank simply have an outlet plumbed into the top to return the water to the stream. You would also never have to worry about water level decreasing with this setup as it would always be filling itself. And if you had the water drop from a height it will drag oxygen into the water in the tank as well. I would be trying it this way first.

[BillsGU]

Have you thought of a ram pump? No power or motor required.

http://permaculturenews.org/2014/04/02/ram-pumps/

If you are getting a motor pump you are wasting money on a bilge pump. They are designed to move lots of water and lift about 1 meter or so. Get a Shure Flow or Flowjet RV style pump. They are very reliable and have low power consumption. I use a 30 watt flexible solar panel with my Flowjet pump connected to a deep cycle battery and have never had a problem.

[fracster]

That is a great read mate, thanks for the link.

I`ve spent the weekend pondering and looking around the site. I think the gravity thing will work,certainly going to trial it.

Thanks for all the replies, thrown up some good ideas for me.

I`ll post some pics up when it is sorted.

[BillsGU]

That is a great read mate, thanks for the link.

I`ve spent the weekend pondering and looking around the site. I think the gravity thing will work,certainly going to trial it.

Thanks for all the replies, thrown up some good ideas for me.

I`ll post some pics up when it is sorted.

A farmer in our area has a ram pump in the creek near his house. It operates 24/7 and fills a very large tank that he uses for everything around the house and garden except drinking water (he captures rain water for drinking). I think he has about a 0.5 metre fall over a small rock ledge so the pump can operate.

His has run for years with no problem.

[taslucas]

A farmer in our area has a ram pump in the creek near his house. It operates 24/7 and fills a very large tank that he uses for everything around the house and garden except drinking water (he captures rain water for drinking). I think he has about a 0.5 metre fall over a small rock ledge so the pump can operate.

His has run for years with no problem.

Yep, the ram pumps are good.... I think they only move about 10% for 90% but they have great head pressure