Biodiesel experiences question

[lantastic2020]

Hi there folks,

Can I get some replies from people who've had good long term success with replacing diesel with biodiesel or vegetable oil? I understand there are kits to make the conversion successful but I've only read lots about other makes other than Nissan and definitely not much on the Patrol.

Although my understanding is mostly all cars prior to a certain age/technology will work - it's just for how long before the issues appear is the question I'd like answered.

Some background, I don't yet own a Patrol, but depending on how successful others have been, I'm basing my model choice on your feedback...

There are other factors such as supply and maintenance, the first I won't ask as I'm UK based and would waste a lot people's time asking that one, but answers for the maintenance question would be very helpful.

Cheers.
Lan.

[lantastic2020]

Sorry not "all cars" but "all diesel cars"... :redface:

[Rossco]

Unfortunately can't help but is something I have thought about for a while and also would be very keen to hear of peoples first hand experiences especially with the patrol application. I do know many kits allow you to start on diesel then swithch to bio usually with dual tanks and a pollak switch to switch them. Also the fuel needs filtering and may require a small plant in the shed. As far as the details go and long term reliability and effects go not too sure but would be keen to hear.

[P4trol]

Biodiesel is different to Waste Motor Oil (WMO) and Waste Vegetable oil.

Biodiesel is a sort of brewing/chemistry type process. Above the level of most average punters.

WMO/WVO is purely waste oil that you both let settle and filter. Of course you would want to be careful with WMO. I know myself the things I drain into the oil pan.

You can run the patrol on up to 90% waste oil. It has less power, and the exhaust can smell a bit, but you're getting it for free. In colder climates people fit heating coils to stop it congealing like fat. Other people fit water injection to try and stop the IP from gumming up.

I looked into it, but a combined rental property and kids dissuaded me from having 100L containers of oil sitting around.

I apologise for posting a link from another patrol forum, but it really is essential reading.

http://www.mypatrol4x4.com/topic/247-a-basic-guide-to-using-veg-oils-as-fuel/?hl=%2Bwaste+%2Bvegetable+%2Boil

[NP99]

Lots of discussion here - http://www.biofuelsforum.com

[BigRAWesty]

I think glort (on the mypatrol page) is the go to man.
He loves wvo (waste vege oil) and why not.
His old bus, a NA Td42 ran it without missing a beat.
He's now running a turbo td42 but hasn't updated for a while.
I think the original setup saw a heat exchange fitted at the tank to make life easier for the pump, and a water meth system to aid in the cleaning.
Have a read of the link.
It's very interesting.

[makeitfit]

Ha UK answer ;) I've been running my Trol on bio since I had it. No issues other than a few more filter changes early on. Massive savings in fuel costs and the exhaust smells like chips . What's not to like ?

[makeitfit]

I should add, I run it neat and have no heater. It's not needed on bio . Even last year in the snows and -18 I had no probs. That said you do need good glow plugs.
SVO , new veg oil is also fine but gets a bit gloopy in the winter and so needs diluting at say 20% with diesel.
WVO waste veg oil is very cheap but has lumps in it :(

[lantastic2020]

Sorry for the awol.

Thanks P4trol and NP99 for the links - I'll be checking them out and possibly get something started here for long term posperity. Also like Rossco says, we do need some nice indepth discussions on the subject.

Thanks also to biggqwesty and makeitfit - valuable info indeed.
Cheers.

[lantastic2020]

Makeitfit,

Which year do you have and do you know precisely on which generations/years biodiesel works and doesn't work from experience?
Also how long have you been letting your patrol drink the red stuff?

To fill everyone reading in, what I'm after is;

1. A complete replacement to diesel
2. Definitely homebrew vs mini undustrial process (as p4trol mentioned)
3. Generations / years that it will work without too much mods. And in fact which models it cannot work with due to certain inbuilt components / advances in engine designs.

- if someone is going to suggest WVO, could they please exlain the in/outs of long term reliability and maintenance? I understand people convert WVO into biodiesel using lye (to remove the free fatty acids). Any one has any experience on this ?

Cheers all.

[makeitfit]

My trol is a 4.2 1996 oil burner ;) I never put red stuff in , as that's illegal :/
WVO = waste veg oil and as such a no no for me. I can't be doing with all that filtering and cleaning malarky
UK Bio Diesel is a direct replacement on DI engines but not common rail as far as I know. I've been using bio for 3 years in the trol and about 30,000 miles in the truck before that ( Nissan Terrano)
Make sure your glow plugs are in good nick. You'll need to change the fuel filter a few times early on as the bio will clean out the crap from your tank and lines .I carry a spare fuel filter ( but never needed it) just incase.
You can also run on SVO = straight veg oil (new) like rapeseed for example. Often cheaper but will need thining down in the winter with diesel , so the cost advantage diminishes.

[lantastic2020]

Thanks again makeitfit,

I've been away so sorry about that.

So what you're saying is UK Biodiesel is what I'm looking for? Any specific supplier or grade?

I want to be clear for any readers - and correct me if I'm wrong - but biodiesel is a broad term and seems to have many final implementations. All with varying degrees of effect and maintenance levels.

By definition biodiesel is a biofuel that is used to replace diesel (as it's polluting) and is mostly from vegetable sources, is cleaning burning and much better for the environment.

Also, do you recommend replacing the glow plugs and for what type / make?

Thanks.

[Sharky1]

This is a hot topic. If you like your injection pump, turbo, pistons & bores to last then forget biocrap. The money you save now will bite you in the ass later. I used Gull Bio Diesel for yrs & ended up destroying my pump. These types of fuels have nowhere near the same lubrication properties & if you read the formula statistics for these fuels you'll see that they specify NOT to run them constantly but to use them tank by tank with normal diesel.

I guess it's like asking if 91 octane fuel is as good as 98 octane. The answer is a clear NO!!! As an ex mechanic, I'm the guy who used to pull your head apart & it was easy to tell when a motor had been run on good fuel compared to one that hadn't. You might pay more for good fuel but you get better economy & better performance which, in the end pays for itself.

Truth told, my 1998 GU TD42 went better & got good economy with Gull's Bio Diesel & the add the price into that made it irresistable to me. Now I refuse to use it. After speaking to some reputable diesel specialists, I'll never use it again. Of course you could use it with a mix of 200:1 with 2 stroke oil but I doubt the benefits would be as good as using normal diesel. The best diesels I've found are BP & Peak. Gull, Shell & Caltex are all ok but not as good. Of course you always get the odd individual servo who cheekily add their own additives.

The more important & most overlooked question here is: If I'm going to use biodiesel, what engine oil should be using? I can't answer that accurately but it will vastly affect your engine longevity, especially if using bio

[Dai]

Hi Lan, update on my MK 2.8 veg oil conversion

I tried 33% diesel, 66% straight veg oil, it was difficult to start and definitely down on power

It's seems to be happy on 40% diesel, 60% veg oil, so only a small difference in ratio, but maybe that will change as the temperature drops

I have a separate pure diesel tank that I can switch via a solenoid valve , and when warm you really can not notice any difference in performance

It does also seem to be eating glowplugs ! Not sure if that is related to trying to get it running on 66% SWO !

[Sharky1]

The issue you have with vege oil is it's more freakin expensive than diesel. If you know someone who has a fish & chip shop like I do then you're lucky but not coz of the free oil.........coz of the free feed you might get. You need to considerably filter that used vege oil prior to using it. The effort doesn't justify the means in my opinion.

[makeitfit]

Maybe this debate should be clarified as to which country you're in first ?In the UK the cost difference is huge. For example Garage diesel on the forecourt is about £1.35 per litre , SVO is only £0.75 per litre However in the winter that needs a bit of mix up with diesel to stop things geling. You also need good glow plugs and a minute for the engine to warm up a bit.
Bio here is usually more of a black art product rarely available on forecourts. Home brew bio is as good as the maker's interpretation of the recepie . Luckily the guy I get mine from is a good witch and produces brilliant juice and I can't tell any loss of power !
I admit I don't know how much lube content is in it, but my mate drives his VW LT van on it daily doing his deliveries . 40,000 miles a year and apart from fuel filters , no issues ;)

[Plasnart]

Well this used to be a "thing" a decade or so ago, but I don't hear much about it any more (bit like LPG injection too).

Is anyone still running WMO, WVO, Biodiesel? Would love to hear how it all turned out.

bigguwesty how was your overall experience with the WMO fuel?

Over 10 years ago I had a couple of mates run biodiesel for a while (TD42T's) but they ended up having filtration issues (as explained in one of the very good links above) and got spooked back to diesel.

I'm not interested in making or using alternative fuels but would love to hear first hand accounts of those that do or did.

[Hodge]

I have not heard or "smelled" bio diesel for a long time. There were several places around here you could go and get it from. But haven't seen them sell it for years.
My workmate used to fill his 80 series with it.
It was fish 'n chips day, everyday driving home behind him. The poor old "unbreakable" 1HZ didn't like it. Probably the only 1HZ that needed a rebuild, but he claims it was not the bio diesel being the issue. The rest of us know it was.
The way the motor ran and sounded, it was not good.
There is a farm bloke up Alexandra way running 2 large Cat powered generators and he claims they've ran flawlessly with bio diesel for many years. He swears by it!! He also blends in "used" engine oil with it, from the very same motors after a service.

[growler2058]

I knew an old bloke named Swampy, Pearcy may know him he's from your way. Owned a little earthworks company. Ran his Ford Louisville, bobcat and little excavator on fish n chip shop oil 15 years ago. He went to all the take away joints and took their old oil for free. He wouldn't share the exact recipe, but was filtered and metho added i reckon. Had a tool shed/laboratory in his back yard full of 44 gal drums.

[Plasnart]

I have not heard or "smelled" bio diesel for a long time. There were several places around here you could go and get it from. But haven't seen them sell it for years.
My workmate used to fill his 80 series with it.
It was fish 'n chips day, everyday driving home behind him. The poor old "unbreakable" 1HZ didn't like it. Probably the only 1HZ that needed a rebuild, but he claims it was not the bio diesel being the issue. The rest of us know it was.
The way the motor ran and sounded, it was not good.
There is a farm bloke up Alexandra way running 2 large Cat powered generators and he claims they've ran flawlessly with bio diesel for many years. He swears by it!! He also blends in "used" engine oil with it, from the very same motors after a service.

Yeah the fish n chips smell is the Waste Vegetable Oil (WVO) I think. Could have been bio diesel though, I'm no expert. The mates I mentioned had that fish n chip smell going on. Westy was running Waste Motor Oil (WMO) after filtering and magnetic separation (have a read of the link above) and seemed pretty happy at the time. I know his circumstances have changed a lot since he was doing this so I'm not sure if he's continued on with it or not.

Is anybody still into this?

For that matter is anybody still running diesel/LPG?

[MB]

For that matter is anybody still running diesel/LPG?

Only my uneducated assumption Plassy Mate but cannot imagine it’s what it was all spruiked up to be back in the day.

Have seen a few older diesel 4x4’s with their LPG assist systems disabled over the years.

One we purchased for a work colleague was a GU DX TD42T ute that had its little LPG tank removed which was definitely many years rusty brackets prior to our ‘in date’ roadworthy certification needs by law upon our rushed purchase from a car yard. [emoji51]

By far the most clunkiest gnarly sounding TD42 we’ve ever owned and can only assume if the LPG was such a great thing why wasn’t it re-certified by the previous owner/s and kept in place?


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