4.2 motor failure

[boke]

Hi - have a 4.2 t/d- intercooled , all standard .... 170K on clock - serviced regularly .... Sudden loud rattling & stopped , mechanics all said injector pump but no - #4 cylinder down 100 psi on comp test .... I thought had dropped a valve ... rocker cover lifted & all ok ......so head coming off ... could be $10K repair ... any suggestions re usded motor or rebuild ?
Cheers

[threedogs]

I've heard the cranks crack,
rebuild or used would depend on funds IMO
Either way that's not many Ks for a major failure

[nissannewby]

I've heard the cranks crack,
rebuild or used would depend on funds IMO
Either way that's not many Ks for a major failure

Mate you need to seriously supply more info in your posts not just put "cranks crack". Any crank breakages that have occurred are on motors with around 200% more power and torque than they came with so they have put under massive loads.

As for the repair I would wait and see what the head removal reveals. It could be as simple as a shitty valve seat. And it shouldn't cost 10k unless that's someone else removing then engine, rebuilding the refitting as well. I would honestly rebuild as you never quite know what your in for with a used motor. You can also pickup reco td42 for around 6k.

[boke]

Mechanic has rung - #4 cylinder big end bearing failed , he is not sure why ... suspects injector failed and pour fuel in & hydraulically locked - getting price for new short motor .... arranging van to go home on tilt truck back load ..... looking for flight to india to sell a kidney

[MudRunnerTD]

Bugger mate! is the TD42 in a Bus? or a Patrol?

[nissannewby]

So the rod is bent as well? Did he mention how the bearing had failed? Spun, collapsed etc?

[boke]

They haven't taken the motor out yet = head off , #4 piston has vertical slop - big end bearing squashed or spun .... anyway the piston has left its imprint on bottom of head ...
quotes , $19K with new short motor - this includes new head / new pump /new turbo/ new radiator to secure warranty . Exchange motor (recond) $9K , plus new pump/new head/new turbo/new radiator to secure warranty - plus labour ... so around $16K .... am going to look for a second hand motor from wreckers . Interestingly the mechanic said "a lot of people are going back to petrol because of the cost of diesel repairs ...." mechanic said they could do bottom end repair - but there is a risk the crank has been damaged and they would not be able to tell and recommends a machine shop to do that work.
The TD42 is in my 2005 GU Patrol ST ute ...
Had a look at engine , and as mechanic said - top of #4 looks 'washed' clean , both mechanics there are of the opinion that something caused the injector to stay open and flooded cylinder ? Injector now looks to be just fine ....

[Lightspeed]

Mechanic has rung - #4 cylinder big end bearing failed , he is not sure why ... suspects injector failed and pour fuel in & hydraulically locked - getting price for new short motor .... arranging van to go home on tilt truck back load ..... looking for flight to india to sell a kidney

There should be fuel mixed in with the oil if that happened. It might have just spun a bearing causing the top of the piston to hit the head. A full rebuild kit is anywhere from $1,200 to $2,000 that's with new linners & new pistons. secondhand crank that can be linished $100-$300 new head around $,1000 + labour. Wouldn't bother with a new turbo, radiator water pump etc etc

[Dales300exc]

Drop the sump. Check the crank before it goes too far into quoting replacement gear.

Id rebuild. 2k for a kit. 1k machine work. Say a day to r + r engine. 2 days to strip and build you engine. Say a week worst case. 5k in labour. Drive away at 8k. Set of injectors, radiator flush, oils, coolant, still under 10k. I think your mechanic is expensive haha.

[MudRunnerTD]

They haven't taken the motor out yet = head off , #4 piston has vertical slop - big end bearing squashed or spun .... anyway the piston has left its imprint on bottom of head ...
quotes , $19K with new short motor - this includes new head / new pump /new turbo/ new radiator to secure warranty . Exchange motor (recond) $9K , plus new pump/new head/new turbo/new radiator to secure warranty - plus labour ... so around $16K .... am going to look for a second hand motor from wreckers . Interestingly the mechanic said "a lot of people are going back to petrol because of the cost of diesel repairs ...." mechanic said they could do bottom end repair - but there is a risk the crank has been damaged and they would not be able to tell and recommends a machine shop to do that work.
The TD42 is in my 2005 GU Patrol ST ute ...
Had a look at engine , and as mechanic said - top of #4 looks 'washed' clean , both mechanics there are of the opinion that something caused the injector to stay open and flooded cylinder ? Injector now looks to be just fine ....

Sound a bit like "would you like fries with that" !! Guys are doing TD42Ti conversions in Vic from blown up ZD30s drive in drive out for under 20k. Your quote and list of New parts seem excessive to say the least. If your mechanic is telling you that "allot of people are going back to petrols" maybe find another mechanic for a second opinion. They are lining up here to do the TD42 conversion.

I don't understand why they are selling you a New Pump, new turbo, new radiator,........ Unless your looking for a hot rebuild chasing RWKW with a big pump and big HP then it seems excessive?

Just my 2c mate, you have a great car and the "last of the TD42s" holds its value. Your experience at 170,000 is very very unusual! Chasing a second hand engine with under 300,000 to drop in would be value even. Don't jump off the deep end just yet.

[boke]

I should have mentioned , mechanic is local Nissan dealership at Wongan Hills (Jolly and Sons) ...
Am looking at Engineexchange - $6500 for recond with 12 month warranty - pretty sure the conditions will be new pump-turbo-radiator which doubles the price - then labour (already up for $1K at Jollys ...
Looked at Brunswick Diesels , even though I'm not a big fan of these

[MudRunnerTD]

I should have mentioned , mechanic is local Nissan dealership at Wongan Hills (Jolly and Sons) ...
Am looking at Engineexchange - $6500 for recond with 12 month warranty - pretty sure the conditions will be new pump-turbo-radiator which doubles the price - then labour (already up for $1K at Jollys ...
Looked at Brunswick Diesels , even though I'm not a big fan of these


RUN!! Quickly Run as fast as you can from your Nissan Dealer!!

Check this out mate, you need someone to fit it but these guys do a few different things

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Patrol-Engine-TD42-T-4-2-Full-Reco-/221478708203?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item339128e3eb&_uhb=1

This is what you need mate, tow in / drive out.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NISSAN-PATROL-4-2-TD42T-Diesel-Engine-Full-Recon-/261518449085?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3ce3b6d9bd&_uhb=1

Good luck.

[boke]

Appears to be a real shortage of these motors in Western Australia ....tried a few wreckers - then have to pay $$$ to remove and refit & don't know what you are getting ... as I'm 61 yrs old I am over leaning into engine bays .... my back won't allow it anyway .
I could put a kit through and hope the crank and head were ok - not sure if they were because motor had been run and car driven a few times (short distances ) with motor knocking .. this would still run to $5K or more - and always have doubt ... this ute is our van tug , we don't want to have more problems .
Looked at Brunswick Diesels , decided against.
Have decided to get a recond engine from Engineexchange , 2 years warranty , turbo & injector pump overhauled and new injectors ...cost approx $14K with labour .. will get a new clutch plate installed whilst motor out , and a second filter installed on fuel line ....

[boke]

Sump just off - #4 bearing gone - just metal filings - crank is scored there - probably 10 thou grind needed .... rest are like brand new , Hi Tech Engine recond quote $5500 to rebuild with 12/20 warranty - might go with that & save $6

[threedogs]

On a happier note you'd have to be happy the inside of your motor is brand new.
testament to your servicing intervals IMO

[macca]

Sump just off - #4 bearing gone - just metal filings - crank is scored there - probably 10 thou grind needed .... rest are like brand new , Hi Tech Engine recond quote $5500 to rebuild with 12/20 warranty - might go with that & save $6

Maate great to read you might get out of this mess with a lighter hit in the pocket.

Good luck.

[Cuppa]

Phew!
Any further thoughts on the cause of the bearing's collapse other than 'bad luck'.

Certainly not a nice experience for you, but for me ( & no doubt for others with the same motor) your news also caused a few 'oo-errs'. One of the main reasons I went for the TD42i was the reputation for motor longevity, (& my mileage is now similar). Yours is the first I've heard of doing this.

Good luck with the re-co.

[kevin07]

Sound a bit like "would you like fries with that" !! Guys are doing TD42Ti conversions in Vic from blown up ZD30s drive in drive out for under 20k. Your quote and list of New parts seem excessive to say the least. If your mechanic is telling you that "allot of people are going back to petrols" maybe find another mechanic for a second opinion. They are lining up here to do the TD42 conversion.

I don't understand why they are selling you a New Pump, new turbo, new radiator,........ Unless your looking for a hot rebuild chasing RWKW with a big pump and big HP then it seems excessive?

Just my 2c mate, you have a great car and the "last of the TD42s" holds its value. Your experience at 170,000 is very very unusual! Chasing a second hand engine with under 300,000 to drop in would be value even. Don't jump off the deep end just yet.

yeh got to agree with the motor swap I have a top notch tb42e 280 on the clock service history um would anyone like to swap me there td42t anyone. hello anyone

[Stropp]

Hey Boke does yours have a telstra pod on the back with personalised blue number plates? as i saw one at the mechanical workshop in wongan hills last friday as i was heading thru to dowerin.

[boke]

Hey Boke does yours have a telstra pod on the back with personalised blue number plates? as i saw one at the mechanical workshop in wongan hills last friday as i was heading thru to dowerin.
No , not mine , at the moment mine has the canvas canopy on , and dinghy atop .....
Expert opinion is divided - some say grit has kept injector open & grossly over fuelled cylinder & hydraulic locked & destroyed bearing , other opinion is - 'no idea' '
Anyway I have gone for the full top quality job , inj pp overhaul , turbo overhaul & mod to increase outlet , 24/40 warranty , 3" exhaust etc - $15K+

[Parksy]

How does number 4 con-rod look? A hydraulic lock would surely have bent the rod.

[Stropp]

Bugger mate that's expensive mate but it will be worth it in the end.

[boke]

How does number 4 con-rod look? A hydraulic lock would surely have bent the rod.
Don't know - it's wrapped up to go down to Engineexchange

[Dales300exc]

My money says the bearing has failed and the "cleanliness" has been the piston just touching the head.

[boke]

Got our ute back today
Exchange recond motor , new injectors , injector pump overhauled , turbo overhauled & outlet enlarged to 3" , new clutch , new radiator , new water pump , 3" exhaust , new hoses belts ......
All up $18K ... 2 year , 40K warranty ... could have done it cheaper - but we went for reliability .
No answer to why #4 big end failed

[MudRunnerTD]

Good luck mate, I hope you get another 500,000kms out of it before it shows any signs of being tired

[boke]

When our Patrol was first inspected by mechanic after being trucked back to Mt Magnet , he commented that they had replaced several fuel filters on vehicles that had recently got diesel in one of the servos there - that's why I posted the title ... I left title as it was until something to explain failure comes to light - nothing has ... have asked engine exchange to supply a report on what caused failure of #4 big end ... could be a month .
Interestingly when it first failed on side of hwy - after I checked all fluid ok , I started it - it fired a few times - ran really bad , then stopped . 10 minutes later - another traveller had stopped - so I tried to start it again and it would not turn over - was locked .
The next morning at Mt Magnet - it started first kick & appeared to run well - until driven & bad knock & missing again .

[boke]

Well , we got the ute back two weeks ago ($18K lighter), did 1000kms locally & had the service done , left home wednesday morning with van on - approx 7'c , fine and sunny - all going good - sitting on 85-90 km/h in 4th gear , approx 2400 rpm , as we approached White Wells I noticed temp gauge was at half way ... unusual - my old motor only ever got to half way once=towing van up Horrocks pass on a hot humid day .
Anyway , had morning cuppa and departed - ambient temp now probably 18'c , going up hills temp gauge now goes over half way - slow to 80 km/hr ... on hill near old Mt Gibson gold mine temp now up to 3/4 , turn heater on and slow to 70 km/hr - temp drops once over hills .
No mobile reception .
Make it into Mt Magnet - around to same workshop - everything checks out ok , not losing coolant , fans both ok . Ring engine exchange - they reply that it can't be overheating !!!! Checked thermostat (brand new) - supposed to open at 76'c , seems a little slow - order new thermostat - arrives overnight , fitted - not much change . Engine exchange tell us to bring it back to them , if we keep going we could void warranty ...... No one knows why it is overheating - new radiator (upgraded to copper/brass) new water pump , new belts/hoses etc , inj pp overhauled ......
We are over this year - so going home for good .

[Dales300exc]

That is horrible to hear :(. Its a shame when you fork out the money to get everything sorted properly the first time and you still have a rough trot. Hopefully its a pump timing issue or something minor and theres not too much more down time.

Best of luck mate.

[89gqpatrol4x4]

I know how you feel mate! You fork out good hard earned money to be "trouble free" and then it still gives you grief! Hang in there hopefully its just something simple and cheap.

[mudnut]

Could it be that the engine is very tight and needs a head lubricant in the fuel, or does that only work with petrol engines?

[boke]

Everything checked out on motor , has been over United Fuel Injection Dyno , and retuned - power increased to normal , but still runs hot , waiting for warmer weather to test more

[Dales300exc]

What temp does it run at? Good to hear the power is back.

[boke]

What temp does it run at? Good to hear the power is back.
Runs just under half , at idle and normal driving .... I think this is about 84'c , am thinking of getting a digital temp gauge for more accuracy

[Dales300exc]

Ill be happy if mine runs at 84. Need something more than the factiry gauge for any accuracy.

[nissannewby]

Thats about where my gu sits and never really moves from there. I have had aftermarket gauges on them and half can be between 70-80 which is pretty much where you want it. 84 degrees is pretty good.

[boke]

Thats about where my gu sits and never really moves from there. I have had aftermarket gauges on them and half can be between 70-80 which is pretty much where you want it. 84 degrees is pretty good.

Trouble is , when I put caravan on & climb a long hill (not steep) , temperature keeps rising - goes to 3/4 on a cool day with no aircond ... when its at 84'c and idling the thermostat is fully open - have checked stroke on thermostat - it opens to 41mm above 84'c - hence it closes off the bypass under the thermostat - just too much heat coming from engine ??

[nissannewby]

What radiator was installed? Are you running coolant or just water?

[boke]

running factory coolant
Radiator is copper/brass twin core , original was aluminium/plastic
Have been following this site as well http://www.patrol4x4.com/forum/engine-drivetrain-55/engine-running-hot-td42-62472/

[nissannewby]

running factory coolant
Radiator is copper/brass twin core , original was aluminium/plastic
Have been following this site as well http://www.patrol4x4.com/forum/engine-drivetrain-55/engine-running-hot-td42-62472/

Do you still have the original?

[boke]

Do you still have the original?
Yes , but tank has been seperated when checked - Perth Radiators reported it was 50% blocked - looked ok to me - but didn't test it myself with water

[nissannewby]

Yes , but tank has been seperated when checked - Perth Radiators reported it was 50% blocked - looked ok to me - but didn't test it myself with water

When it gets 'hot' have a feel of the bottom radiator hose.

[hutchy84]

Hey Boke just a thought i used to run the original aluminium radiator and i filled it with mud one day out the bush and i thought i cleaned it all out but i obviously didn't do a good enough job and the next time i took it out it over heated to around 3/4 and a crapped myself i pulled over and it cooled down straight away. Anyway i cracked the top tank so i had to get a new one and i was advised to stay away from the copper radiators as they don't disperse the heat properly so i put an aluminium one in which was 30% bigger than the standard radiator and i have never had a problem since. Maybe a possible solution to your problem. I just got one of those radiators on ebay for like $380 and has been in there for 2 years so far and still havent had any issues. The ebay seller was called radiator warehouse and are located in Queensland i think from memory. i hope you sort your problem out

[Scorpiovee]

Your issue could be the copper radiator. Aluminium is more efficient as a heat sink, basically, removes heat better than copper does. Bear in mint too that the temp reading 3/4 is still in the "normal" range. That said, I understand the uneasy feeling your getting.
Perhaps switching from copper to aluminium may solve your problem. I'd even look at a triple core unit if you're towing.
Good luck with it all, interested to hear how you get on.

[jet]

The original radiators are good at their job, just rest of system isnt. Heavier copper and brass units may not work as well despite their advantages. New alloy cores are pretty reasonable price. as are the plastic tanks
Definitly get a second temp gauge, all the way up to red isnt "overheating". Used to be plenty of info around on this. The standard gauge isnt linear in its reading
The new engine will be a bit tight and likely to heat up a little Id have thought.