4.5 Patrol fuel and power improvement.

[Dampies]

Good day all.

I have a 98 4.5 ti.
I spent the last 2 hours reading up on on fuel and power improvements on a 4.5 but in the previous posts on 4.5 but I couldn't find any real evidence of what really worked on not?
The power with overdrive off is good enough for me and I came back from holiday now with a fuel usage of -+5km/l using 98 octane, below 98 it just suck fuel.
I was looking into going the turbo way but I dont want to spent $10000 on the engine just to make it reliable again with the turbo on.
I am looking into a full exhaust system, a full service with a knn or similar filter and then send it for a dyno?
I have a few questions now..
Can you remap the original ecu?
And what else are there that you can tweak to make it more powerful and more economical?

Thank you

[threedogs]

exhaust will make a huge difference, maybe some tuned length extractors.
even a snorkel, kinda like a cold air intake.
nah whack some NOS on it lol
me I'd go for a turbo. have you looked at supercharging it just to be different

[NP99]

It's a thirsty beast most of us learn to live with :)

[Dampies]

I love my 4.5.
What fuel consumption do you get NP99?
And is your 4.5 still stock?
I have 265/75r16 and a roof rack.

[NP99]

Still stock mate. I'm getting about 23 litres per 100k. Same LPG or ulp.

[lhurley]

Exhaust and snorkel will make a heap of difference. Not thrashing helps a lot too, but I know that you can't always afford to sit back and cruise. Plugs and leads and just general full servicing helps. Tappets done regularly.

As far as I know you can't re map the ecu, but piggy back ones are available for a few biccies.

[Dampies]

Did you do your exhaust?
And what did you put on?

[threedogs]

You could get it dynoed after some mods , but ask first what gains can be made

[lhurley]

Did you do your exhaust?
And what did you put on?

That's the only thing I haven't done in my list. I have driven one with extractors on it, unsure what tho, and it had a fair bit of go straight off the line.

[_RYAN_]

I'm doing extractors and 2.5" exhaust later in the week. I'll update to let you know if it was worth doing.

[PMC]

It's a thirsty beast most of us learn to live with :)

So what you are saying NP99 is that you are a thirsty beast of a man. lol

Regards,

PMC

[Dampies]

What make extractors and exhaust your putting on Ryan?
Are you going to do it by yourself or someone else?

[jay see]

What make extractors and exhaust your putting on Ryan?
Are you going to do it by yourself or someone else?
I would like to know what improvement you get as I'm thinking of doing this at some stage.

Dampies, I to have a 4.5 GU.
Mine is all standard, (for now) 265 on stock 16" rims, auto and stock 3.9 gears. I get around 450km to 90 litres $60 of gas. Most of my driving is freeway , 100 km/h at 1800 rpm with overdrive.
Thought you could use this information

[Dampies]

Thanks jay. Mine is only on petrol.
When I bought it i drove 400km on just my main tank and still had a quarter of a tank left. But know I only get 400 on a tank.
Mine also have 265 on stock rims.

[jay see]

Thanks jay. Mine is only on petrol.
When I bought it i drove 400km on just my main tank and still had a quarter of a tank left. But know I only get 400 on a tank.
Mine also have 265 on stock rims.
Oh sorry, I thought you were dual fuel.
Tappet adjustment is meant to improve alot if you haven't already done it.

[jff45]

I fitted Pacemaker extractors and 2.5" Redback 'cat back' exhaust system i.e. I retained the original cat. Without testing it for noise, I added a rear muffler to avoid any drone.
It works well and made a noticeable difference but not 'neck-snapping'. I noticed no difference when I added the snorkel and also no difference when I fitted a Unifilter air filter.
I noticed a further slight improvement when I added an Xede piggyback with a tuning map for those exhaust mods. I run 98 octane.
You can't make any tuning changes to the original ECU so not much point in putting it on the dyno unless you only want to see before/after figures and you have money to throw away.

I'm currently in the process of fitting a turbo from a BA XR6T that I picked up secondhand. I'm doing all the work myself including making my own inlet pipes and intercooler cradle with fan. I'm retired so I have the time.
I'm keeping it a low boost (0.3 bar) system so I'll leave the bottom end as is. It only has 132,000 kms on it.
I now have everything I need to complete the install and my costings are currently a little over $3500.

You can't really expect more performance with better economy from these low tech engines..

Just noticed the OP also has a Ti so it's an auto trans. I fitted a TransGo shift kit to my trans and found it changes a lot better with less slip.
My fuel consumption is around 19 lts/100 kms.

[Alitis007]

When i first got my 45 it was getting around 4.5km/L, after slightly advancing the timing and slight tweaking of the tps to change the shift points in the auto to suit my driving style it bettered it to 6 - 6.5km/L. I also made and added a 4" stainless steel snorkel and now average 6.5 - 7km/L. My truck is pretty much standard running 265's, stock zorst and straight petrol and only use 98RON. When i run my 285 play wheels the economy drops to about 6km/L but that could be coz the speedo reading is altered by the larger rolling diameter of the wheels.

@100km/h on 265's the rpm is 1850
@100km/h on 285's the rpm is 1750 both in overdrive and the torque converter in lock up.

The single most power and economy gain i have come across was when my radiator was blocked and i was driving around with the clutch fan not working. I had a massive increase of power and lower fuel consumption, removing the clutch fan and adding thermo fans will take a lot of strain off the motor but depending what sort of driving you do will depend if that option is feasible for you.

[Dampies]

Thanks guys for all the replays.
Jff45. I looked into that chip as well and they are going to charge me $1500 fitted and tuned.
Do you think its worthwhile to do it?
Because I am going to get the same exhaust and extractors.

[04OFF]

I'm currently in the process of fitting a turbo from a BA XR6T that I picked up secondhand. I'm doing all the work myself including making my own inlet pipes and intercooler cradle with fan. I'm retired so I have the time.
I'm keeping it a low boost (0.3 bar) system so I'll leave the bottom end as is. It only has 132,000 kms on it.
I now have everything I need to complete the install and my costings are currently a little over $3500.

..

.


You really need to do a build thread with pics John :bigthumbup:

[04OFF]

The single most power and economy gain i have come across was when my radiator was blocked and i was driving around with the clutch fan not working. I had a massive increase of power and lower fuel consumption, removing the clutch fan and adding thermo fans will take a lot of strain off the motor but depending what sort of driving you do will depend if that option is feasible for you.


Interesting, I replaced my clutch fan centre hub, and im sure the car went slower and used more fuel, would like more info on your fan conversion please (what parts you used) plus pics if you can ?

[jff45]

Thanks guys for all the replays.
Jff45. I looked into that chip as well and they are going to charge me $1500 fitted and tuned.
Do you think its worthwhile to do it?
Because I am going to get the same exhaust and extractors.

That's probably reasonable if it includes tuning time but it can be more cost effective if you are capable of doing your own install. If you can read a wiring diagram and are at ease soldering wires then it's an easy install.
I'd be happy to guide you through it.
If your at ease with a laptop and are generally computer literate, I can supply you a tuning file that was done for exhaust mods.

[jff45]

You really need to do a build thread with pics John :bigthumbup:

Yes, I'm planning to do a build thread shortly to show what can be done at home if you have a welder and the basic home workshop tools.

[Alitis007]

Interesting, I replaced my clutch fan centre hub, and im sure the car went slower and used more fuel, would like more info on your fan conversion please (what parts you used) plus pics if you can ?

I didn't end up doing the conversion on my trol but i have done it to my RX7. On that i used a 16" (2200cfm) and a 12" (800cfm) Davis craig thermo fans, Davies craig top hose adaptor and a Drift digital thermo fan controller, the only part i'm not happy with is the fan controller coz the connectors are cheap and don't make good connection. I opted for a digital controller so i could adjust and monitor the temp on the fly over the Davies craig analog unit.

I'm currently planning an engine conversion which i will be running thermos and i'm looking into the FG falcon thermo coz its a large single fan but i can't seem to find any specs on the air flow to compare to the AU, EF or commodore fans. Worst case i'll run 2 x 16" Davies craig fans in a custom fan cowl which should do the job nicely but i might have to run a kill switch to the earth wire to cut the power to the fans if i do river crossings so i don't burn them out lol

If you want i can put up some pics of the rx??

[04OFF]

OK Cool, I ran the twin AU fans on my RB30 powered Torana, great fans , and im pretty sure they are about 3000cfm, so you'd have to think the single fan would be the same ?


Yeh, good point, never thought about river crossings and thermos, Ive heard of people breaking standard fan blades, but it normally because they hit the water to hard, do you think it would be that much of a problem with thermos if you drive slow ?

That would also mean everyone should make sure the A/C was off for any water crossings as well.

[Drewboyaus]

Thanks guys for all the replays. Jff45. I looked into that chip as well and they are going to charge me $1500 fitted and tuned. Do you think its worthwhile to do it? Because I am going to get the same exhaust and extractors.

Your other option is a Nisstune pigyback board. A mob down here does them installed and dyno'd for about $800 as I recall. The Nisstune board gives you full tuning capability.
I'll be putting one into my TB42 after I do my exhaust.

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[Drewboyaus]

Double post

[Alitis007]

OK Cool, I ran the twin AU fans on my RB30 powered Torana, great fans , and im pretty sure they are about 3000cfm, so you'd have to think the single fan would be the same ?
.

Well the FG radiator is is roughly the same size as an AU but only uses a single fan so it would have to have the same flow rate if not more than the two AU ones. Leave it with me i'll see what i can find.




Yeh, good point, never thought about river crossings and thermos, Ive heard of people breaking standard fan blades, but it normally because they hit the water to hard, do you think it would be that much of a problem with thermos if you drive slow ?

That would also mean everyone should make sure the A/C was off for any water crossings as well.

TBH i have no clue how it'll go thru water but seeing as the auxiliary thermo fan only engages when the coolant temp reaches 96*C and the fact that when you do drive thru water it cools your radiator down i would imagine it wouldn't turn on.

But like i said i haven't done that many river crossings so its hard for me to say. If i had thermos as my main cooling fans i would hate to be stranded somewhere while i was driving thru a river and the resistance of the water caused the fan blades to break or burnt the motor out.

I like the Davies craig fans coz they have good airflow and your able to disassemble them to just the motor. When you buy them you also can either set them up as push or blow by switching the fan blades around.

[threedogs]

I think what the OP wants is efficiency as some one stated you will not get performance gains with better fuel figures.
Running 265s and driving sensibly will see your best fuel returns. Change up to 285s[33"] and your fuel usage will increase
as it will take more mumbo to turn them, but most do run 285s or 305s,
First get your engine breathing with decent headers and a 2'5" system that would be my first mod.
as suggested start a build thread

You shouldn't plunge straight into any river crossing, stop and let your diffs cool down first
That will probable get your engine temp down as well, safe to cross without the need to loosen belts etc
Water will stop a thermo fan but a fixed fan will work like a propeller and screw into your radiator, making
both u/s

[Alitis007]

I think what the OP wants is efficiency as some one stated you will not get performance gains with better fuel figures. Running 265s and driving sensibly will see your best fuel returns. Change up to 285s[33"] and your fuel usage will increase as it will take more mumbo to turn them, but most do run 285s or 305s, First get your engine breathing with decent headers and a 2'5" system that would be my first mod. as suggested start a build thread You shouldn't plunge straight into any river crossing, stop and let your diffs cool down first That will probable get your engine temp down as well, safe to cross without the need to loosen belts etc Water will stop a thermo fan but a fixed fan will work like a propeller and screw into your radiator, making both u/s

Actually there is a fine line with performance, efficiency and economy, if your increase torque in the rpm range you drive in you can gain economy because the motor will not labour to work and giving you economy by not having to accelerate as much to go.

The short story is you want to increase torque / pulling power in the low to mid range rpm without having to increase fuel needed

[lhurley]

Actually there is a fine line with performance, efficiency and economy, if your increase torque in the rpm range you drive in you can gain economy because the motor will not labour to work and giving you economy by not having to accelerate as much to go.

The short story is you want to increase torque / pulling power in the low to mid range rpm without having to increase fuel needed

Mythbusters, reliable source I know, tested driving fuel ecconomicly. They tested it by accelerating hard up to speed and accelerating slowly up to speed. They actually found that there was very little difference in fuel figures. Reason being, hard accelerating you use a heap of fuel quickly but you coast for longer, where as slow acceleration you require less fuel to get to speed but you are using more for longer and not coasting as long.

[jff45]

Your other option is a Nisstune pigyback board. A mob down here does them installed and dyno'd for about $800 as I recall. The Nisstune board gives you full tuning capability.
I'll be putting one into my TB42 after I do my exhaust.

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I don't think Nistune do an option for the 4.5. The ECU is different to the TB42 so the Nistuned daughterfboard can't be fitted.
There website should confirm it.

[Alitis007]

Mythbusters, reliable source I know, tested driving fuel ecconomicly. They tested it by accelerating hard up to speed and accelerating slowly up to speed. They actually found that there was very little difference in fuel figures. Reason being, hard accelerating you use a heap of fuel quickly but you coast for longer, where as slow acceleration you require less fuel to get to speed but you are using more for longer and not coasting as long.

Ok.... So for argument sake, accelerating up to 60km/h over 100m using 30% throttle not revving over 2,000rpm vs 60km/h over 100m using 20% throttle not revving over 2,000rpm uses the same amount of fuel ???

[lhurley]

Ok.... So for argument sake, accelerating up to 60km/h over 100m using 30% throttle not revving over 2,000rpm vs 60km/h over 100m using 20% throttle not revving over 2,000rpm uses the same amount of fuel ???

In that situation probably not. I don't know the science behind it, but basically all they were saying is, if you get up to speed quick, you can coast for longer, as opposed to slowly accelerating up to speed, where your using less fuel to accelerate, but your accelerating for longer and then coasting less.

[gaddy]

Get some of these lads , you will be making petrol ? :)45835

[lhurley]

How could you not?? That thing is a steal at only $15. Where do I sign up?

Hahaha

[lucus30]

I hear it also gives you an extra 100 rkw

[Dampies]

Jff 45.

I dont mind doing laptop work it as I was a technician for John Deere.
The chip I can get for around $900?

I will do it if you can help me with the software and just a crash course how to do it?
I can get a Dastec chip from south africa for $200?

But here on the west coast there is no one that can tune it for me.

Where did you buy your chip from?

[jff45]

Jff 45.

I dont mind doing laptop work it as I was a technician for John Deere.
The chip I can get for around $900?

I will do it if you can help me with the software and just a crash course how to do it?
I can get a Dastec chip from south africa for $200?

But here on the west coast there is no one that can tune it for me.

Where did you buy your chip from?

I bought my Xede secondhand on Ebay. Paid a little over $100 with postage from US.
The software for the Xede to do the tuning is a free download from the Chiptorque website.
The timing profile file for the 4.5 Patrol is also free.
I see them sometimes on Gumtree but you need the 'H' type Xede for the 4.5. If you get a different model, Chiptorque can swap the electronics for around $275. The different types are H, S & M.

I don't know anything about Dastec.

[jff45]

You really need to do a build thread with pics John :bigthumbup:

Turbo build thread started in the DIY section.

Btw, I enjoyed your thread on the rebuild of yours..

[Alitis007]

In that situation probably not. I don't know the science behind it, but basically all they were saying is, if you get up to speed quick, you can coast for longer, as opposed to slowly accelerating up to speed, where your using less fuel to accelerate, but your accelerating for longer and then coasting less.

I know what you where saying i was just making a point of what i meant. Ultimately everyones goal is economy without losing performance but hopefully gaining some in the process

[04OFF]

Turbo build thread started in the DIY section...

Sweet, good work !




Btw, I enjoyed your thread on the rebuild of yours..

Wish I could say I enjoyed doing it John, but I really didn't im afraid :(

[Drewboyaus]

I don't think Nistune do an option for the 4.5. The ECU is different to the TB42 so the Nistuned daughterfboard can't be fitted. There website should confirm it.

Indeed! Just checked the website, you are quite right. Bummer.

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