section for performance tuning

[odd boy]

Hi,

Can we start a section for performance tuning and modifications?

Thanks,

[Bloodyaussie]

Off you go then!!!!!


I'll watch..... and maybe learn ...!!!

[Drewboyaus]

Come on then....
Like, there are no threads on here related to performance or modification and I'm fully looking forward to reading one.....
Instead of the usual dribble.....

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

[Alitis007]

Heres a teaser, use 98ron petrol because it burns slower which will allow you to advance your timing to give you better fuel economy and a slight improvement in performance

[mudski]

Heres a teaser, use 98ron petrol because it burns slower which will allow you to advance your timing to give you better fuel economy and a slight improvement in performance

Can I do that with my ZD30 too George? I'm always looking for performance improvements for the engine.

[Avo]

if you take the dizzy out and file the teeth down,put it back in one tooth before top dead centre..this will give you sh!t loads of low down talk..

[Alitis007]

Can I do that with my ZD30 too George? I'm always looking for performance improvements for the engine.

When your td is ready, put some 98 in with your diesel and watch it fly!!!

[Alitis007]

if you take the dizzy out and file the teeth down,put it back in one tooth before top dead centre..this will give you sh!t loads of low down talk..

Don't say that lol someone might do it lol

[grahamap]

My dad did that to my little brothers datsun so head would stop doing burnt outs on the lawn hahah

[Drewboyaus]

Heres a teaser, use 98ron petrol because it burns slower which will allow you to advance your timing to give you better fuel economy and a slight improvement in performance

Would this be a break even cost-wise do you reckon? Or does the extra $$ of the 98 RON offset any economy gains?

[nissannewby]

Can I do that with my ZD30 too George? I'm always looking for performance improvements for the engine.

In all seriousness look at water/methanol injection or even just water by itself.

[Alitis007]

Would this be a break even cost-wise do you reckon? Or does the extra $$ of the 98 RON offset any economy gains?

When i worked it out it was all freeway driving when i first got the trol and its timing and tps adjustment was at the factory presets, from memory 91 i was getting 4km/l, 95 was 5km/l and 98 was 6km/l after i adjusted the timing and tps ( the tps was more for changing the shift points in the auto to compliment my driving style) i now get on 98 6.5-7.5km/l around town. Same driving style but less fuel consumption and a slight increase in power. All this was calculated on my 265's, with the 285's it works out on paper to use more fuel but i still travel the same distance for example with the 265's on 687km to 109.58ltrs and on the 285's 576 to 108.33ltrs but i still did my weekly drive and filled up after 6 days both times.

Only way for you to calculate it is you need to run each fuel thru 2 tank fills and record your data on the third tank, after the third tank adjust your timing a record another tank full of fuel and see what results you get

[Alitis007]

In all seriousness look at water/methanol injection or even just water by itself.

What would be the gains of the water or water/methanol injection vs the extra weight increase of the water storage tank and added fuel consumption that comes with that ??

[nissannewby]

What would be the gains of the water or water/methanol injection vs the extra weight increase of the water storage tank and added fuel consumption that comes with that ??

In our turbo diesel application with a much denser air charge due to the water injection we actually use less fuel. When you add methanol you can get it cooler again plus get the added power of a highly oxygenated fuel. You don't need a huge amount for good gains and can use boost and egt set points to switch it on and off. In a wagon you could get away with a 30-40l tank no worries.

Water/meth injection is the best way to lower intake air temps especially if using pre and post turbo injection. When used with a good intercooler you get a very stable intake air temp.

[BigRAWesty]

And methanol is a good carbon remover, so you get a cleaner engine

[nissannewby]

And methanol is a good carbon remover, so you get a cleaner engine

Yes this is correct and I should have mentioned it also. Good pickup.

[Winnie]

Why is it not a more common engine mod? Price?

[nissannewby]

Why is it not a more common engine mod? Price?

Price wise it isn't to bad probably cost less than a cross country intercooler. Setup is probably the main thing. It's a little fiddly, to get the most from it you need a decent tank and it takes a bit of tuning to get running sweet.

[Chimo]

Nissannewby and others

Years ago I fitted water injection to a V8 and got big benefits
Cost was negligible but it was a carby engine. Two small copper tubes inserted thru the carby wall into the venturi tubes with a 45 degree angle cut on the end. No pump just vacuum with water intake 4.5 to 5 cc per mile (1.6km for the non GOMs) Also lifted carby 50mm with a balance tube setup between the twin barrels on the carby (WW2)

Benefits came from changing timing from 6 degree advance to about 12 degrees. Torque curve flattened but kept rising instead of the previous 2600 rpm peak some it went really well if you were of a mind to floor it.

Fuel consumption improved from 12 to 18 mpg around town and 18 up to 30 on the open road.

Most people never got the benefit they could have from water injection because they didn't fit it as well as they should and they didn't alter timing and fuel mixing by things like lifting the carby and balancing the in flow of fuel.

Mind you this was with a V8 carby so not sure how it would go with the new injected gear.

Cheers
Chimo

[Alitis007]

In our turbo diesel application with a much denser air charge due to the water injection we actually use less fuel. When you add methanol you can get it cooler again plus get the added power of a highly oxygenated fuel. You don't need a huge amount for good gains and can use boost and egt set points to switch it on and off. In a wagon you could get away with a 30-40l tank no worries. Water/meth injection is the best way to lower intake air temps especially if using pre and post turbo injection. When used with a good intercooler you get a very stable intake air temp.
Yes this is correct and I should have mentioned it also. Good pickup.
I see a pattern forming lol, so with your td mods you add fuel and try and lower intake and egt's to get better economy and performance yeah!? And adding a water methanol injection kit should help get you better economy. As a rough guesstimation with this lower fuel consumption how long would it take to pay for it self with the money you save on fuel ?? Say for argument sakes all up it costs you $2000 to buy, fit and tune

[BigRAWesty]

Top of the line meth injection kits are around the $700 from memory..

It's like all fuel saving mods though.
I've found 2 methods which work well so far..

Drive slower, or not at all..
Huge savings..

[nissannewby]

I see a pattern forming lol, so with your td mods you add fuel and try and lower intake and egt's to get better economy and performance yeah!? And adding a water methanol injection kit should help get you better economy. As a rough guesstimation with this lower fuel consumption how long would it take to pay for it self with the money you save on fuel ?? Say for argument sakes all up it costs you $2000 to buy, fit and tune

We want as much air as possible with our TD. We really actually can't have to much air the more air we have the more efficient we can be. Using plain water injection we aren't adding fuel but are adding cooling so a cooler more dense air charge (more air). Lower intake air temps will always result in lower Egt's. Probably the best kit you can by for our application will set you back about $1000 or so and tuning can be done by the operator it's just a balancing act really finding the sweet spot between ones preferred usage and cooling. And yes we can supply to much water and quench our flame.

Now we can add methanol for some more added cooling but the gain we will see here is power and torque without actually adding anymore diesel. The cost factor with methanol would prob be neutral as methanol costs dollars to see the gain but at the same time we can see better economy. If we were just using water I think you could easily make the cost back in a year or less.

[Alitis007]

We want as much air as possible with our TD. We really actually can't have to much air the more air we have the more efficient we can be. Using plain water injection we aren't adding fuel but are adding cooling so a cooler more dense air charge (more air). Lower intake air temps will always result in lower Egt's. Probably the best kit you can by for our application will set you back about $1000 or so and tuning can be done by the operator it's just a balancing act really finding the sweet spot between ones preferred usage and cooling. And yes we can supply to much water and quench our flame. Now we can add methanol for some more added cooling but the gain we will see here is power and torque without actually adding anymore diesel. The cost factor with methanol would prob be neutral as methanol costs dollars to see the gain but at the same time we can see better economy. If we were just using water I think you could easily make the cost back in a year or less.

Interesting! I think most people would be looking for fuel saving mods more than anything but thanks again for the info.

Never really played with oil burners even in trade school i did a small elective on them ( which i've forgotten most of lol ) and got to play with a couple of motors to set up injection timing and general basic operation. There was a beast of a motor there tho which was this massive supercharged, twin turbo v8 diesel thing which stood at around 5.5 ft tall that i wanted to have a closer look at but was only for the heavy stream mechanics

[nissannewby]

Interesting! I think most people would be looking for fuel saving mods more than anything but thanks again for the info.

Never really played with oil burners even in trade school i did a small elective on them ( which i've forgotten most of lol ) and got to play with a couple of motors to set up injection timing and general basic operation. There was a beast of a motor there tho which was this massive supercharged, twin turbo v8 diesel thing which stood at around 5.5 ft tall that i wanted to have a closer look at but was only for the heavy stream mechanics

Are you sure it was supercharged? It sounds like it may have been a 2 stroke diesel it was very common for them to have what looked like a supercharger fitted but in fact it was only a blower (yes there is a difference). The blower was to aid with scavenging on the 2 strokes. And then they throw a couple of turbos on them and away you go. These things are certainly a beast of their own and I absolutely love the sound of a 2 stroke diesel at full song they sound very impressive.

If you have ever seen the bandag bullet it runs to 2 stroke v8's bolted together.

[Alitis007]

Are you sure it was supercharged? It sounds like it may have been a 2 stroke diesel it was very common for them to have what looked like a supercharger fitted but in fact it was only a blower (yes there is a difference). The blower was to aid with scavenging on the 2 strokes. And then they throw a couple of turbos on them and away you go. These things are certainly a beast of their own and I absolutely love the sound of a 2 stroke diesel at full song they sound very impressive. If you have ever seen the bandag bullet it runs to 2 stroke v8's bolted together.

Your more than likely right, it was mounted near the waterpump and was belt driven and looked alot like those side mounted chargers you see on ls1's and that, the best way for me to describe it is that it looked like a comp cover on a turbo. I'd be lying to you if i said it was a 2 stroke or not coz i don't know lol, but i can tell you most of the heavy mech boys looked like they were having wet dreams about it hahahaaa.

I'll have to look up that bandag bullet, sounds like it'll be one of those tractor pulling dragsters

[Winnie]

I'll have to look up that bandag bullet, sounds like it'll be one of those tractor pulling dragsters

It's way cooler than that.

[Alitis007]

It's way cooler than that.
Can't be cooler than a 13bt half bridge extend port

[nissannewby]

Can't be cooler than a 13bt half bridge extend port

Unless that 13b can turn 8 Tyres at once.....

[Alitis007]

Unless that 13b can turn 8 Tyres at once.....
8's child's play mate, it can do 13!!! :D

[Ben-e-boy]

Are you sure it was supercharged? It sounds like it may have been a 2 stroke diesel it was very common for them to have what looked like a supercharger fitted but in fact it was only a blower (yes there is a difference). The blower was to aid with scavenging on the 2 strokes. And then they throw a couple of turbos on them and away you go. These things are certainly a beast of their own and I absolutely love the sound of a 2 stroke diesel at full song they sound very impressive.

If you have ever seen the bandag bullet it runs to 2 stroke v8's bolted together.

Fark I love the sound of a Detroit screamer, especially with jakes...... :D

[BigRAWesty]

I think the main bonus with water meth injection was the theory behind it.
Your adding a substance which each molecule is made of 2 oxygen and 1 hydrogen..
Oxygen is what gives the burn.
In 1 cubic meter your getting only 27% oxygen, so not very efficient.

And the transfer of energy. The water absorbs the heat and turns into vapour..

There are lots of bonuses.. But there are downfalls. Water weight is a main.
The setup can be a pain.

If I was looking for that bit extra easy I'd go it..

[Alitis007]

Just watched a couple of vids of that bandag bullet thing sounds like a rotor on idle and the bloke loves the flame thrower kit lol

[Ben-e-boy]

Just watched a couple of vids of that bandag bullet thing sounds like a rotor on idle and the bloke loves the flame thrower kit lol

2 stroke diesels sound like rotories, except more manly..

[Drewboyaus]

Just reading this (very interesting) thread has raised a question in my small mind.....
How come water in diesel is the enemy of diesel donks everywhere but water injection is in fact a genuine performance mod?

[Ben-e-boy]

Just reading this (very interesting) thread has raised a question in my small mind.....
How come water in diesel is the enemy of diesel donks everywhere but water injection is in fact a genuine performance mod?

Because the size of the water droplets are minute and actually evaporate drawing out heat as it does so. The water changes from a liquid to a gas. Where as a gut full of water wont evaporate and wont compress so by by engine

Water has been injected into engines for decades ( not just a few either) as far as I know it started with aircraft

[Alitis007]

2 stroke diesels sound like rotories, except more manly..

So what your saying is it takes 8 cylinders with a high capacity to sound like a motor with no cylinders ?? And anyway can't sound manlier than a bridge port or peripheral port!! :D