Blinker blinks fast and doesn't blink until motor runs

[dom14]

Hi Guys,

I just started experiencing a semi weird electrical issue.
Blinker started blinking too fast when I use indicators(both left and right).
I ignored it for a few days. First I thought one of the indicator globes were blown.
But, they weren't.
Now I discovered that I can't get the indicators to work, until I start the car.

It's 1990 GQ Patrol. RB30 manual tranny.

It's gota immobilizer, which works fine.

What's happening??!!

Thanks in advance for any help.

[Ben-e-boy]

The indicators arn't powered until the key is in the ON position

[dom14]

The indicators arn't powered until the key is in the ON position

Hi Ben,
Yes. ignition key is in the on position. But, indicators won't work until I start the car.
Also battery indicator comes on dimmed. But, the battery appears to be fine. It died this morning though.
I recharged it and it looks fine now.

Is this a sign of a parasitic draw??!!

How does a parasitic draw can be explained with the blinker running too fast and not coming on until car's started?

This looks bit too weird to me.

[the evil twin]

Could be a dodgy immobiliser... Alternator might be suss as well but first I'd get the battery tested because you may have more than one problem.

Parasitic draw won't affect your indicator rate.
Parasitic draw is the current flowing from the battery when the vehicle is off.
This can be Immobilsers, Electronic Rust Protection, Sound systems, Clock, etc etc

[Ben-e-boy]

There could be a bit of leakage to earth, not exactly a dead short, firstly check what ET has suggested then look for some damage to cables around the vehicle

[Yendor]

Does the battery light come on when the ignition is turned on?

When is the battery light on dim? when the engine is running?

Have you checked the main fusible links out near the battery for possible bad or corroded connections?.

[dom14]

Could be a dodgy immobiliser... Alternator might be suss as well but first I'd get the battery tested because you may have more than one problem.

Parasitic draw won't affect your indicator rate.
Parasitic draw is the current flowing from the battery when the vehicle is off.
This can be Immobilsers, Electronic Rust Protection, Sound systems, Clock, etc etc

Hi ET,
The alternator appears to be good, according the multimeter.
It's been reconditioned just around two years ago.
The battery needs to be tested for sure. It's not a brand new one.
I need to get hold of a load tester.

Do you know the location of the blinker in a GQ Patrol(RB30)?

Immobilizer obviously draws a tiny amount of current all the time. But, I need to see if it's bit too much due to a faulty one.

Electronic rust protection is a whole new concept for me.
I don't think 1990 GQ could've come with something like that, but I'm not that sure.
Clock has been faulty as long as I remember. It always resets itself.
I've been told it's not an electrical/battery issue, but a faulty clock by an auto electrician, around three years ago.
Sound system probably draws a tiny amount of current, but I still think it's not a whole lot.

After I turn the ignition on, I tried to turn the indicators on.
The battery indicator on the dash board came alight, but dimly.
That's why I thought there might be a faulty blinker.

Thanks

[dom14]

Does the battery light come on when the ignition is turned on?

When is the battery light on dim? when the engine is running?

Have you checked the main fusible links out near the battery for possible bad or corroded connections?.

No, the battery light doesn't come on when I turn the ignition on. But, it did, briefly and dimly when I tried to turn the indicators on.
Of course, the indicators wouldn't turn on.

When the engine's running, all appear to be fine. Indicators are fine. There's no dashboard battery light on.

No, I haven't checked the main fusible links near the battery yet. I just discovered that this is an actual problem, when I tried to turn the indicators on
while the ignition is on, but engine not running. Before that. I've been experiencing the blinkers have been getting faster for no apparent reason.

I will start checking the wiring near the battery for corroded connections tomorrow first thing. I have a feeling that may be the reason, as well as water may have got into the dashboard wiring through the windscreen. There was a leak few years ago, which I sealed with silicon. Back then, the speedo started flickering and I pulled the dash board out and cleaned the circuit board, and put it back. It never gave trouble after that. I thought it must have caused by some water getting into the dashboard and creating a small short circuit.

I would like to have a look at the blinker unit.
Do you know it's location?

Thanks mate.

[Yendor]

I would start by checking the main fusible link and connections out near the battery. Try turning on the ignition and RHS indicator and then start wiggling the wire harness, starting at the positive battery post and working towards the main fuses and see if the indicator starts flashing.

There is also an ignition relay mounted beside the fuse box inside the vehicle that might be playing up but this wouldn't cause the indicators to flash fast.

What was the voltage reading when you checked the alternator? where was this measured?

The blinker relay should be mounted on the LHS of the brake pedal support bracket under the dash.

[dom14]

Voltage was around 14.7 V when I checked. I'll check again. I checked it at the battery terminals.

Thanks mate.

[dom14]

I would start by checking the main fusible link and connections out near the battery. Try turning on the ignition and RHS indicator and then start wiggling the wire harness, starting at the positive battery post and working towards the main fuses and see if the indicator starts flashing.

There is also an ignition relay mounted beside the fuse box inside the vehicle that might be playing up but this wouldn't cause the indicators to flash fast.

What was the voltage reading when you checked the alternator? where was this measured?

The blinker relay should be mounted on the LHS of the brake pedal support bracket under the dash.

Open circuit battery voltage: 12.37v

Alternator voltage: 12.12v

Car dash board voltage guage: 15V

Parasitic draw: 20mA

I used two separate multi-meters to make sure the readings are accurate.

You can see the battery red light indicator is dimly on as well in the picture. Engine's running when I took the
picture.
Car dash board gauge shows around 15V!!!

What on earth is going on?!!!

Is the alternator's actually faulty or is this a bad connection problem?
I couldn't find any bad connections so far, but I'm still checking.
Battery terminal connections are ok.

Hazard lights won't work either, until I start the engine.

Are these two unrelated problems that appeared at the same time by bad luck?!

Even if the alternator's faulty, there's still enough voltage and current in the battery.
So the blinkers should work when I turn the ignition on, right?!!


Thanks for any help guys

[the evil twin]

You have dropped at least 1 phase of the Alternator I reckon, but no matter what it is you need to get that charging voltage sorted out.
It should be 13.8 volts or more.

Then I would try and suss out what is wrong with the indicators

[Yendor]

Just because your battery is not being charged doesn't necessarily mean your alternator is faulty.

Check the voltage at the back of the alternator

1. Engine off, ignition on.

2. Engine running at a fast idle, then compare that with the reading across the battery. It should be within 0.5 of a volt. I'm guessing yours will 2 or more volts difference.

I think the two problems are related. I think there is a break/ bad connection in the charge wire between the alternator and battery. This break or bad connection prevents power from getting to your indicators until the alternator starts charging.

It's also possible because the battery is not connected to the alternator the alternator's voltage output is going up above 15 volts this might be causing the indicators to flash quicker.

How did you go with checking the main fuses and connections?. Does the RB30 have plastic type main fuses or the wire type?

[the evil twin]

My bad... I assumed he has checked all that as prev requested and his Alternator is outputting 12.12 even with battery excitation?

I'll leave ya with it R otherwise it will get confusing

[Yendor]

My bad... I assumed he has checked all that as prev requested and his Alternator is outputting 12.12 even with battery excitation?

I'll leave ya with it R otherwise it will get confusing

I'm not 100% sure either. It's just a theory at the moment. We will see when the results of those tests are posted.

I think that 12.12v is still measured across the battery with the engine running.

[dom14]

Just because your battery is not being charged doesn't necessarily mean your alternator is faulty.

Check the voltage at the back of the alternator

1. Engine off, ignition on.

2. Engine running at a fast idle, then compare that with the reading across the battery. It should be within 0.5 of a volt. I'm guessing yours will 2 or more volts difference.

I think the two problems are related. I think there is a break/ bad connection in the charge wire between the alternator and battery. This break or bad connection prevents power from getting to your indicators until the alternator starts charging.

It's also possible because the battery is not connected to the alternator the alternator's voltage output is going up above 15 volts this might be causing the indicators to flash quicker.

How did you go with checking the main fuses and connections?. Does the RB30 have plastic type main fuses or the wire type?

Hi Yendor,

Main fuses inside the car are all good. Connections from the battery to the alternator, I'm still working on. I'm not quite sure how to diagnose a possible weak link between the battery and the alternator. I'm guessing I should disconnect the battery positive terminal and check the connectivity from there using the multi meter?

Yes, RB30 comes with plastic type standard fuses, not the micro ones.

I must admit my testing of the fuses was visual. Please tell me if that's not the ideal way and if I need to test them with the meter.
Visually, all fuses are looking perfect.

[dom14]

I'm not 100% sure either. It's just a theory at the moment. We will see when the results of those tests are posted.

I think that 12.12v is still measured across the battery with the engine running.

Voltage reading from the back of the alternator

1)Ignition on, engine not running - 12.2V

2)Engine running at fast idle - 15.4V

Are the reading ok?

I'm just about to check the connectivity between battery terminal sockets and the alternator.

Thanks mate

[Yendor]

So the voltage at the back of the alternator with the engine running was 15.4 volts but the voltage at the battery was only 12.12 volts with the engine running? So you have a voltage drop of over 3 volts between the alternator and battery.

There is a 5mm wire that runs from the back of the alternator to the main 60 amp fuse near the battery. There is also another 5 mm wire that connects to the same 60 amp fuse and goes to the fuse box inside the vehicle (supplies power to indicators via an ignition relay and also supplies power to the hazard lights).

I think you have a problem with the connection at this 60 amp main fuse. Remove the fuse and inspect, check for corrosion or a damaged wire.

A sign of a bad connection is excessive heat. With the engine running feel for heat around this area.

Do you have a dual battery isolator fitted?

[dom14]

So the voltage at the back of the alternator with the engine running was 15.4 volts but the voltage at the battery was only 12.12 volts with the engine running? So you have a voltage drop of over 3 volts between the alternator and battery.

There is a 5mm wire that runs from the back of the alternator to the main 60 amp fuse near the battery. There is also another 5 mm wire that connects to the same 60 amp fuse and goes to the fuse box inside the vehicle (supplies power to indicators via an ignition relay and also supplies power to the hazard lights).

I think you have a problem with the connection at this 60 amp main fuse. Remove the fuse and inspect, check for corrosion or a damaged wire.

A sign of a bad connection is excessive heat. With the engine running feel for heat around this area.

Do you have a dual battery isolator fitted?


Hi Yendor,
I don't have a dual battery system, yet. I bought a kit while ago, but never got around to fit it in.

I found a main 60amp fuse near the battery with the yellow wire. Fuse looks good. But the wire is destroyed by heat and rust.

Thanks heaps mate. I wouldn't stand a chance finding it without your guidance.

What might have caused this drama?!!!

I'm yet to fix up the wire. I don't have the correct automotive wire.
I'm hoping to get some from Jcar electronics tomorrow.

I posted quite a few photos. If you can have a look and post bit more info, that would be great.

I'm thinking this is not the end. The cooking of the wire means there's a problem somewhere??!!

Thanks

[Yendor]

Good job mate, I knew you could find the problem.

Don't worry about the question regarding the dual battery isolator. I was just starting to more forward incase you couldn't find a problem with the main fuse.

That inline fuse holder (black body with the yellow wires) is not rated to handle 60 amps. I wouldn't use in mounted under the bonnet to run a continuous 15 amps let alone the main charge circuit.

I wouldn't be to concerned about the "cooking of the wires". It looks like the white wires (last 2 photos) that the inline fuse holder connects to a fine and haven't been burnt. I would say it just a combination of an incorrect inline fuse holder used, poor soldering/taping technique and corrosion in the original wires.

I would replace that inline fuse holder with something like a good quality maxi fuse holder or something equivalent that Jaycar carry. As long as it has a rating of at least 60amps and is weatherproof.

Cut off any of the white wires that may be damaged and connect to your new fuse holder, then run a new, at least 6mm wire from the fuse holder to the positive battery post.

Cheers Rodney

[Yendor]

Bottom relay is the ignition relay that powers items such as indicators and dash warning lights.

Middle relay is accessories relay.

Top relay is for the interior fan.

[dom14]

Thanks Yendor.

I just patched it up with the existing wire for the time being. I cleaned it up, twisted the edges and sticky taped for the time being. Tomorrow I get into do the proper job.

Indicators are working perfect and alternator suddenly came back to life. :)

You have no idea how much trouble you saved me today.

I've been charging the battery all the time and couldn't get anywhere too far.
It's a fantastic problem to have in the middle of Easter holidays. :))

I think this car's got pretty bad backyard electrical wiring done to it.
I found another wire from the positive battery terminal, heading towards
the immobilizer, with a fuse simply sticky taped to the wire(Yep, I'm not kidding). :))
The 'electrician' must have been in a real hurry. ;)

I learnt a very good lesson thanks to you and decided to go through all the visible electrical wires for similar kind
of impending trouble. :))


Cheers mate. :cheers:

[Yendor]

No worries mate, I'm more then willing to help people that are willing to be helped.

There's no better feeling then being able to find the problem and repair it yourself. Well done mate.

[jack]

:bowdown::bowdown:
No worries mate, I'm more then willing to help people that are willing to be helped.

There's no better feeling then being able to find the problem and repair it yourself. Well done mate.
Love your work Yendor :bowdown: