GQ noise from the front end. Help!

[dom14]

This problem started fairly quickly.
I hear a grinding kind of noise(loud enough) while I'm driving, but kind of goes away when I depress the accelerator paddle. It comes back when I let go on engine braking(more noise) or when I neutral the gear and let go(slightly less noise, bot still noisy.)
The way I feel it, it comes from the right hand side. Noise is from the front end, so I don't think it's the rear uni joint, there is a bit of a play when I checked it, but not necessarily from the uni joint, rather from the bearing of the diff, which I thought is normal, but not sure.
It's gradually getting noisier. What bothers me is that it started relatively quickly, just around two weeks ago.
I've repacked the front bearings early last year and adjusted the bearing play.

Diffs, transfer and gear box oils changed and both drive shaft uni joints greased mid last year.

It's a 1990 GQ RB30. Manual and carby. front hubs are manual locking type. I greased them, last year at the same time I repacked the front bearings. I used the correct type grease for the bearings and hubs.

But, I'm not sure whether I've done the same for the "Swivel hub assembly". I used normal grease rather than HTB.
I'm not sure that's the way to go. I repacked the grease by taking off the top and bottom bearing caps(with four bolts). I applied plenty of grease, but it was standard grease, not HTB.

Any help would be great guys.

There are no CV oil leaks that I can see. No bearing play. I believe I didn't over tighten the bearing nut when I repacked the bearings last year. I took my time and was very careful with it.

Only thing I am worried about is that the front right hand brake caliper has a seized pin, which prevented me from replacing both brake pads, so only one new brake pad. The other one is still the old one, which I haven't got around to fix it yet. Could that have caused this issue?
Brake pads are still good, even though one pin is seized.

Thanks for any help guys.

P.S. I'll post some pictures tomorrow and see if I can record the noise as well.
P.S. It's more of a growling noise rather than grinding.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onU09ImKO5Q&feature=youtu.be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mF-r1n-KZE&feature=youtu.be

[dom14]

I did few tests today. I couldn't produce the noise from front end by turning or jerking wheel after jacking it up.
I'm still suspecting the right hand side CV. But, there's no noise when I turn it.

I checked the grease in swivel hub assembly from the top bearing cap(four bolts).
Plenty of grease there, and the top bearing appears to be healthy. I haven't opened the bottom bearing cap to see if it's the same. I assumed if the top is good, the bottom should be good as well. Am I right?!

I haven't got to the hub bearings yet, but I'm pretty sure those bearings ok, 'cos it doesn't make any noise when I turn the wheel. No bearing play. I've done this only on front right hand side, because that's where the noise comes from by the sound of it. So, I'm stil assuming it's the right hand side.
I haven't opened the hub yet to see the hub bearings. I'm doing it tomorrow, 'cos it's bit more complicated than the swivel hub bearings. Only thing i can thnk of is the metal to metal grinding of the rotor and brake pad(late last year) might have
'cooked up' the grease?! Sounds silly I know. It hasn't affected the normal grease in swivel hub, so the HTB grease should be able to handle the excess heat, I reckon.

I did the test with hubs locked and unlocked. The noise stays.
So, does that mean the noise is not from bearings? But can be the CV, right?

How do I diagnose that?

Thanks guys.

I've attached two photos.

P.S. There's a slight play(when in neutral gear) between the back uni joint and the diff pinion bearing.
Assuming I did the test correctly, the play is from the pinion bearing, not the uni joint.

I tried to take a video of it with the iphone, but hopeless. Tomorrow I will do it, with a little tripod and a digital camera. That play bothers me, 'cos I can't remember it being there ever. I remember 'cos I have done a good job with cleaning and greasing all the uni joints.

I do have an issue with back left axle leaking little bit of diff oil from the inner axle seal. Which I usually clean once every few months. Oil level is still good in the back diff.

[MudRunnerTD]

Hi mate,

It does not sound like a CV to me. I was thinking front Uni but you say you have tested that. I would be leaning towards a Wheel Bearing by the sounds of it.

You r scraper seals look fine to me mate, the Steering lock nut looks like it is still out way to far and you need to refit that down to the lock nut on that bolt or you will have a crap turning circle to the right.

Your ing Pin bearings wont make the noise you described and i am leaning on the wheel bearing. Strip off the hub and remove the right side wheel bearing and have a look.

Your front end is identical across the GQ and the GU range. i will alter your thread title to reflect your question better and see if you can get further input mate.

[BigRAWesty]

You can feel the bearings by just jacking up front diff and removing Tyre. With both hands cupping the hub center rotate it slowly.
If it's smooth then your bearings are probably ok.. If you feel any knocking or crunching or binding there shot..

If your still unsure tear it down.. Not very hard, just takes time for newbies.

[dom14]

Hi mate,

It does not sound like a CV to me. I was thinking front Uni but you say you have tested that. I would be leaning towards a Wheel Bearing by the sounds of it.

You r scraper seals look fine to me mate, the Steering lock nut looks like it is still out way to far and you need to refit that down to the lock nut on that bolt or you will have a crap turning circle to the right.

Your ing Pin bearings wont make the noise you described and i am leaning on the wheel bearing. Strip off the hub and remove the right side wheel bearing and have a look.

Your front end is identical across the GQ and the GU range. i will alter your thread title to reflect your question better and see if you can get further input mate.

Hi Mud,
Nice to hear from you mate.
Steering locknut is bit out, 'cos I unscrewed it to have a look at it. I mistook it for a grease nipple. But, I put it back, exactly the way it was, not too much out or in.

By the front, uni. Did you mean the rear shaft or front shaft?!

If you meant the back shaft's front uni joint, I need to check it again.
Back shaft's front uni has grease nipple, but not the back uni.
I'm not sure why, but that's the way it is!!!

The noise is there regardless of hubs are locked for 4wd or they are free.
So, I reckon it's not the transfer box, front shaft or the uni joints of front shaft, but please tell me if I'm wrong.

I will be getting into the front bearings today.

[dom14]

You can feel the bearings by just jacking up front diff and removing Tyre. With both hands cupping the hub center rotate it slowly.
If it's smooth then your bearings are probably ok.. If you feel any knocking or crunching or binding there shot..

If your still unsure tear it down.. Not very hard, just takes time for newbies.

It's smooth as far as I could feel mate. I checked it with wheels on and wheels off.
I couldn't hear the growling noise I hear when I was driving, or any noise anywhere near the growling noise.
I will be puling it apart today, anyway.

Thanks

[dom14]

These are the the links to the videos. They aren't that great. I'll do a better one tomorrow morning.

Tilt your head little bit to get an idea of the video, 'cos I didn't get the orientation right. :)

Also, please remember to put the volume all the way up to the top notch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onU09ImKO5Q&feature=youtu.be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mF-r1n-KZE&feature=youtu.be

[dom14]

This is the latest video.
When you hear the humming noise, that's when I apply engine brake and noise is quite noticeable

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FXJzfmt99s&feature=youtu.be

Down the hill
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YxzbdrNIeI


So, what do you think guys?

I can almost ignore the noise, when accelerating. It's only clearly heard during engine braking
and neutral driving.

[Robo]

Forgive me if I missed something.
Did you try knocking it into neutral and coasting at the same speed and then rev engine?
to see if noise was still there.
If noise happens with revs up and down and speed is constant you can rule out the front end, and start looking at engine
My connection is bad, a howl we'are hearing right.

[gqmoder]

the front axle is not engaged when the hubs are unlocked so the CVs should not be turning with hubs free should they?!
i'd say inner wheel bearing (big one) try not to drive if it is cause you risk welding it to the stub axle .
when I was travelling I once forgot to unlock one of my hubs and after a couple hrs on the blacktop at 100kmh it heated up, expanded and scredded my front diff pinion bearing.... that produced a grinding noise.
check pinion flange for play
check pinion seal for leaks.

[gqmoder]

can't really tell from video. sounds like underinflated tyre.
check transmission oil level.
assuming it is manual

[dom14]

can't really tell from video. sounds like underinflated tyre.
check transmission oil level.
assuming it is manual

Yeah It's pretty hard to get an idea from the video. I think I need to do a better sound recording with an outside mic. I'll see if I can do a camcorder one by attaching it to the side view mirror.

It doesn't appear to have any transmission oil leaks mate. Back diff has a slow leak from
axle left axle seal. It isn't that bad though. Front diff has no noticeable leaks.
I will check the oil levels tomorrow though, just to be safe.

[Robo]

Rb30 right, timing belt tensioner or guide bearing are both OK?
or air con tensioner bearing?

[dom14]

Rb30 right, timing belt tensioner or guide bearing are both OK?
or air con tensioner bearing?

They appear to be ok, mate. I may have to do further looks at the timing belt tensioner though.
Thanks

[dom14]

Is it normal for the rear diff uni joint to not to have a grease nipple in a GQ 1990 RB30?
There's no way to grease the uni joint with a grease gun.

[dom14]

This is the latest video showing the rear diff pinion bearing play(assuming I've got it right).

Can you please have a look at it guys?! Please tell me if it's ok. My gut feeling is that it is not.
But, I need the opinion of the experienced fellas here.
Thanks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljzutTaygO4&feature=youtu.be

P.S. I couldn't feel a play in the rear uni, but clearly can feel and see the "bearing play" as in the video.

[dom14]

Come on guys!

When am I going to hear some noise here?!! :D

I'm getting sleepy here talking to myself. :toot:
:bananadancing:

:smilie_bett:

[dom14]

Here are the latest pictures.
It has turned out to be one of a kind of a mess.

Can you please have a look at them and let me know if you see anything (un)usual?!!

Thanks guys

[Robo]

pinion bearing not good, not good at all brother.
I would not be driving that the way it is.
don't just get a new bearings.
pinion and crown mesh 99.9999% needs re-lapping.
m2cw gear box and diff specialist.

[dom14]

pinion bearing not good, not good at all brother.
I would not be driving that the way it is.
don't just get a new bearings.
pinion and crown mesh 99.9999% needs re-lapping.
m2cw gear box and diff specialist.

Hey Robo,
Thanks for the reply mate.
What is the difference between RB30 diff and TB42, TD42 diff, mate?
Are they the same? Are they interchangeable?
Thanks again.

[Robo]

I think they would have lower ratio for the smaller engine.

the gear box is out of 300zx so would suspect diff is also different.
possibly as strong just lower ratio if that makes sense to you.

don't get to worried someone here may be able to help ya rebuild or point you in the direction of a good shop.
or if ya ask nicely even sell ya a good assembly.

[fourj]

Hey gents RB 30 diff is same as TB/TD diff, ratios are different. RB 4.3:1, TB 4.1:1. Hope this helps.

[Robo]

Hey gents RB 30 diff is same as TB/TD diff, ratios are different. RB 4.3:1, TB 4.1:1. Hope this helps.

there ya go a bit lower

[dom14]

Hey gents RB 30 diff is same as TB/TD diff, ratios are different. RB 4.3:1, TB 4.1:1. Hope this helps.

Certainly did mate.
Just wondering mate. What would happen if I put a TB diff in my RB30?!
Thanks

[dom14]

Can I still put a TB diff in my RB30? What would happen if I did?
Thanks guys

[fourj]

If you put a TB diff in you RB, your revs will increase to maintain a certain speed. And I imagine it would feel like a slug when accelerating, if your running 33s or bigger it will be even worse.

[dom14]

If you put a TB diff in you RB, your revs will increase to maintain a certain speed. And I imagine it would feel like a slug when accelerating, if your running 33s or bigger it will be even worse.

Ok, cool. It is a kinda slug already, with the little RB30 motor, but I kinda enjoy it. :))
I imagine it would badly affect the speedometer accuracy as well, would it?! :D

My recent concern has been that many says RB30 gearbox isn't good for long towing trips.
Does that mean even a small caravan can put extra stress on RB30 gearbox and fail in the middle of the road? BTW, sorry about going off the main topic.

Thanks mate

[fourj]

Sorry got it arse about, TB diff will lower rpm.

[dom14]

Sorry got it arse about, TB diff will lower rpm.

Does that mean, I would get a better or worse pickup acceleration? By that I meant pickup torque/power!
Thanks

[fourj]

Yes speedo will be out, as far as towing goes take it easy and it will do just fine. I've taken my camper all over, six in the car and it's done 417000 ks on original gear box.

[fourj]

Does that mean, I would get a better or worse pickup acceleration? By that I meant pickup torque/power!
Thanks

You would be worse off, if you want to improve torque your better off using diff out of RD 28 (2.8 diesel) 4.6:1 ratio but this sacrifices speed and fuel economy.

[dom14]

You would be worse off, if you want to improve torque your better off using diff out of RD 28 (2.8 diesel) 4.6:1 ratio but this sacrifices speed and fuel economy.

Thanks mate. That's very valuable information, indeed. I think I'm gonna have to look for an RB30 diff.
I'll be looking for the whole diff assembly with the axle, if I can find it.
I would be really grateful, if you could let me know, if you know somebody want's to sell a one.
Cheers.

[fourj]

Sorry mate don't know of anyone selling one, depending where you are try Patrolapart.

[Robo]

yeah don't settle on TB diff ratio to big for your engine.
engine would struggle off the mark and threw the gears to much for sure.

possibility ??,
fourj idea is rd28 diff,
then add bigger tyres to try returning ratios of rb30 setup.
one of the guys here can steer ya in the right direction.
don't see a hasel getting another rb30 diff from a wreckers.
try flea bay to for a rolling chassie lots of spares!

[BigRAWesty]

Going from 4.3 to a 4.1 ratio would be like going from 31" tyres to 33"..
You'll loose a bit of torque, your will actually come true an you'll need less rpm to be doing a true 100km/h.

The down fall is you'll loose power, and fuel usage will go up and the engine will work harder.

It'll be ok for the short term but do not engage 4x4 with the 2 different diffs..

[dom14]

Going from 4.3 to a 4.1 ratio would be like going from 31" tyres to 33"..
You'll loose a bit of torque, your will actually come true an you'll need less rpm to be doing a true 100km/h.

The down fall is you'll loose power, and fuel usage will go up and the engine will work harder.

It'll be ok for the short term but do not engage 4x4 with the 2 different diffs..

Thanks mate. I think it's pretty much clear I need to find the same diff. I would need to be able engage 4x4 when I need that.

[dom14]

yeah don't settle on TB diff ratio to big for your engine.
engine would struggle off the mark and threw the gears to much for sure.

possibility ??,
fourj idea is rd28 diff,
then add bigger tyres to try returning ratios of rb30 setup.
one of the guys here can steer ya in the right direction.
don't see a hasel getting another rb30 diff from a wreckers.
try flea bay to for a rolling chassie lots of spares!

Thanks mate. Drop me a line if you hear somebody wants to get rid of their old RB30 GQ or parts.
Cheers

[dom14]

I'm just wondering.
Is the MQ/MK rear diff housing, ratio, centre the same as GQ RB30?
Thanks guys.

[Robo]

I'm just wondering.
Is the MQ/MK rear diff housing, ratio, centre the same as GQ RB30?
Thanks guys.

checked gen oem manual MQ/K .
diff model C200 light duty version
4.375 .
behind a L28.
in a hard top and hi roof hard top only.

waste of time bro, leaf springs for a start.
all other models were larger or smaller ratios.
youd prob find uni's differ in size, axle shorter also.
just find a wreckers replacement.
or rebuild take it some where for a quote, ya can't (shouldn't) drive on it anyway, so nothing to lose there.
no cheap way out I afraid

[Robo]

eBay item number:131138416722 rear diff. Shimmed and $900

eBay item number:131137902402 front.
auto locker.
caster plates welded on.
$1200.

rear diff may-be, but $$
front recon cheaper to rebuild yours "if still serviceable".

.

[dom14]

eBay item number:131138416722 rear diff. Shimmed and $900

eBay item number:131137902402 front.
auto locker.
caster plates welded on.
$1200.

rear diff may-be, but $$
front recon cheaper to rebuild yours "if still serviceable".

.


eBay item number:131138416722 rear diff. Shimmed and $900

eBay item number:131137902402 front.
auto locker.
caster plates welded on.
$1200.

rear diff may-be, but $$
front recon cheaper to rebuild yours "if still serviceable".

.

Thanks Robo. That's pretty good ebaying, I couldn't see it. :D

Overhaul kit:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NISSAN-Patrol-GQ-1989-1997-Diff-Rear-Overhaul-Kit-Differential-DT-DBK13-/301038468819?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item46174a7ed3

It's not too bad. But, I still need to take the centre to a mechanic to get the racers & bearings out and put the new ones in it, won't I? It would be nice to have a homemade hydraulic press. :D
Overall, still would be lot cheaper than buying a reconditioned one, I think.

I just need to take my time with adjusting it properly. I need to buy a dial type torque wrench as well, I think.

I wouldn't have to worry about any of these, if I can find rear whole rear diff assembly secondhand. :))

Let me know, if you hear any news guys, I would really really appreciate that.

Cheers

[dom14]

checked gen oem manual MQ/K .
diff model C200 light duty version
4.375 .
behind a L28.
in a hard top and hi roof hard top only.

waste of time bro, leaf springs for a start.
all other models were larger or smaller ratios.
youd prob find uni's differ in size, axle shorter also.
just find a wreckers replacement.
or rebuild take it some where for a quote, ya can't (shouldn't) drive on it anyway, so nothing to lose there.
no cheap way out I afraid

Yeah, I know mate. I'm trying to cut the costs as much as I can.
The rig has cost me a fortune already to fix few other things, upgrades, etc, even after doing most of the work myself.
That's why I was praying the problem not to be inside the gearbox, 'cos that would've cost a real fortune to fix.

Find a secondhand one is the cheapest way out, I reckon. But, not easy to find an RB30, by the sound of it.
Not many around. Plenty of TB42's though. No use for me. :))

[dom14]

eBay item number:131138416722 rear diff. Shimmed and $900

eBay item number:131137902402 front.
auto locker.
caster plates welded on.
$1200.

rear diff may-be, but $$
front recon cheaper to rebuild yours "if still serviceable".

.

Hey Robo,
The rear diff is shimmed tight means it is more suitable for a serious off roader, wouldn't it?

[dom14]

Just letting you guys know, I think I 'discovered' the reason for the rear left axle oil leak(as well as the diff pinion seal oil leak)
I discovered today the diff breather(basically a rubber hose from the top of the diff housing) has been
blocked with grime. I couldn't blow through it or suck through it, after opening the fill nut of the diff.
I took the hose out and cleaned it.
What happened I believe is that when I replaced the left inner oil seal back in October last year, I used a hard lip hard rubber seal(as advised by a local mechanic), which I ordered from "Bearing Wholesalers". This was after several times of failed soft rubber single lip oil seal replacements.
Unlike the soft ones I used before, this seal managed to hold the oil and hot compressed air inside better, so once got too hot and expanded, the only way for the air to get out was through the pinion(bearing) oil seal, I reckon.
This may have contributed a lot to the quick demise of the pinion bearing , 'cos it may have caused diff oil to lose quickly as well as, 'washing off' the grease in the bearing(which exactly is not a good explanation)

My point is that I might have contributed a lot, to the sudden collapse of the pinion bearing by 'fixing' the axle oil seal leak 'properly'. This is pretty careless of me. All I had to do back in October was to take the damn hose off the top of the diff housing and clean it, a five minute job.

The left axle seal hasn't been leaking much oil or hasn't been leaking at all since October, due to the fact I used the double lip hard rubber oil seal. I believe that's where the problem started for the pinion bearing and seal.

I would like to hear from you guys about this.

Thank you and your replies are much appreciated.

[dom14]

The above pictures are from October last year.