Oh no....a new issue for my tb45e. Where to look?

[ozzymalone]

Hi All,

So the missus has called me today and said that while driving the GU TB45E (Dual Fuel) she heard a small *pop* noise (she thinks it felt like somewhere in the middle of the car- transfer case? idk) and smelt something (sorry she is a bit non-descript) and the car began to run rough and have severely lacked power. She was running on lpg at the time but said it didn't smell of gas and the tank was still half full so shouldn't be a back fire. She crawled to a servo, filled up the petrol and swapped fuel supply. Still happened while running on petrol. Completely down on power and mentioned going up hill was at walking pace and turning the motor seemed to run rough very rough.

I am stuck at work so obviously haven't had a look but stressing myself silly in the meantime. Any thoughts of what to look for when I get home? I have just replaced a hose in the cooling system and everything here was tested a ok afterward so thinking perhaps a driveline or diff issue? Perhaps chewed a tooth in the diff or worse something has gone bad in the trans (Auto) or transfer case for some reason.....I am quite hopeless with all things mechanical so sorry for the bad write up...any suggestions in the meantime will be muchly appreciated.

When I get home I will have a squiz and see if i can see anything obvious but unsure of how to do some of the tests on the transfer case/driveline myself.

Once again, all of your help and input is appreciated.

[BigRAWesty]

Do you guys Run maf sensors?
Thinking dis a backfire affect a sensor??

[Bob]

Try disconnecting the Battery for 30 Minutes (to reset ECU) and then try.
Clean MAF sensor if you know how. There is a thread on here how to do it

Cant see how running rough would have anything to do with Transmission

[ozzymalone]

I have a feeling it does run a MAF sensor. In the last 1000 k's I have replaced the intake plumbing as I blew a hole in the last one under a backfire situation (Ran the lpg too low). Has run perfect since replacing the plumbing so I wouldn't have thought the MAF would be the issue but it did cross my mind. What would you suggest Westy's?....MAF cleaner? I have recently done a little bit of offroad wheeling so maybe dust could have covered the sensor?

[Evo]

Hi mate,

Im far from an expert, but if it's running rough and down on power, I would be more inclined to look at the motor rather than driveline.
Wondering if it's something to do with timing/ignition to be gone on both fuel types.
Throwing things out there, maybe a vac line has popped off or blown.
Be interesting to know what sort of smell, if it was an electrical, or rubber, or oily type of smell.

I have the same motor in my GU, but is manual, so maybe someone with knowledge on the autos might be more helpful as I don't know if they are vac controlled, cable controlled, or computer controlled, because it might be something simple on trans, if it seems to be middle of car.

If you can possibly find out and provide more info on the sound and smell, might narrow it down a bit.

Cheers

Evo

[ozzymalone]

Will try get more info tonight....I have read your whole saga Evo and hope you can get to the bottom of it soon. Fingers and toes crossed for you and I alike mate.

[BigRAWesty]

I have a feeling it does run a MAF sensor. In the last 1000 k's I have replaced the intake plumbing as I blew a hole in the last one under a backfire situation (Ran the lpg too low). Has run perfect since replacing the plumbing so I wouldn't have thought the MAF would be the issue but it did cross my mind. What would you suggest Westy's?....MAF cleaner? I have recently done a little bit of offroad wheeling so maybe dust could have covered the sensor?

Ha. No idea mate. The symptoms you were describing sounds maf like.

Um, as above, disconnect the battery and turn the lights on to drain the circuit.

If you know how to clean em do that to..

[Evo]

They do have a maf, also what type of gas setup do you have, as in mixer, injected?

Hoping to get a step closer to my issues tomorrow, hope yours don't take as long to solve.

Evo

[Kevs GU]

Gday ozzymalone, I have the 4.8l dual fuel had a similar thing happen lose of power on both fuels,we found that the main muffler had collapsed restricting the exhaust flow new muffler problem fixed.Just a thought.
Cheers Kev.

[ozzymalone]

:pOk dokey. So got home and started with fluid checks to err on the side of caution....all levels good. All belts where they should be. Kicked it over on petrol and the idle was extremely low and rough. Took it for a crawl around the block. Found that the take off was erratic, low powered and all together no good. Once moving and down to second gear she seemed to run almost perfect. Stop, and try take off again and back to square one. It seemed worse on a downhill take off which is odd. So started thinking either maf or air/fuel mix.

Popped the bonnet and low and behold found the centre butterfly nut on the air box loose....thought to myself, "Wow! You might have just figured this out yourself". Tightened it back up, checked the rest of the intake plumbing in case another leak was present but no luck. Went for another little drive......seemed better but certainly not fixed. Still erratic on takeoff with gentle throttle. Hmmmm. Will go disconnect battery shortly and see if a half hour rest is what the doc ordered.

In the meantime any further suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Also is the maf on this model look different to that of the one posted in ynots/Tony's write up? Will post a pic of what I think it is after dinner

[ozzymalone]

They do have a maf, also what type of gas setup do you have, as in mixer, injected?

Hoping to get a step closer to my issues tomorrow, hope yours don't take as long to solve.

Evo Hey Evo it's the old mixer type mate. And hoping all the best for you. I got a bung back too so know the pain of climbing all over the patrol so hopefully tomorrow you might get the answer you are looking for and it's a cheap fix

[lhurley]

Just tossing up some experience,
When my auto went it went bang. Like a boom bang. Then it smelt. Oh god the smell, it was a very distinct oil burning smell. It was very sluggish in 1st but that was due to pretty much no insides in my torque converter. 2nd was a little better. It was normal at idle tho.

In this situation i would be looking at vacuum lines and spark. Air leak somewear? Spark lead knocked while fixing the cooling?

[ozzymalone]

So my wife thinks the smell was plasticky* and not 100% if the smell and the problem where totally related as she was near an industrial estate that tends to pong regardless. Have disconnected the battery so time will tell if this is an easy fix. The exhaust could possibly be a culprit as it is the stock Nissan jobby and it has truthfully always looked to need replacing as it certainly is showing its patina of 15 years running down the beaches and bush. Don't like my chances of getting the bolts undone below the headers as they look pretty well rusted shut so might have to tackle this tomorrow and see how we go. Hopefully I will get a chance to check for air leaks/vacuum leaks tomorrow too. Let you know how I travel.

[Evo]

Hey Evo it's the old mixer type mate. And hoping all the best for you. I got a bung back too so know the pain of climbing all over the patrol so hopefully tomorrow you might get the answer you are looking for and it's a cheap fix


So my wife thinks the smell was plasticky* and not 100% if the smell and the problem where totally related as she was near an industrial estate that tends to pong regardless. Have disconnected the battery so time will tell if this is an easy fix. The exhaust could possibly be a culprit as it is the stock Nissan jobby and it has truthfully always looked to need replacing as it certainly is showing its patina of 15 years running down the beaches and bush. Don't like my chances of getting the bolts undone below the headers as they look pretty well rusted shut so might have to tackle this tomorrow and see how we go. Hopefully I will get a chance to check for air leaks/vacuum leaks tomorrow too. Let you know how I travel.

Mixer type gas setup plus possible plastic burn smell could very well be backfire through the intake.
Being you have had backfire before, plus loose filter box lid.
Maf may well be the culprit.
Also, depending what solenoid so you have on the gas setup, I have had a vehicle that was dual fuel previously, and had an issue where the solenoids failed and was fueling both gas and ulp together which runs like a pig and has no power...
Just some ideas for you to look over.
And even if the exhaust isn't blocked, it wouldn't go astray later down the track to free up a little more power and economy.

Evo

PS: I found that if you soak all the nuts/bolts on the exhaust with penetene or inox, leave overnight, and, although tight, once cracked, come off easy. Just be careful not to break manifold studs on the head, but in saying that, all mine were ok after the same treatment.
Pays to put in fresh studs at the same time too.

[ozzymalone]

So I woke up and started thinking. The power is only totally down and erratic when at idle and coming up to speed. Could this maybe eliminate vacuum lines as the miss seems to disappear higher in the rev range? Would/could the symptoms be associated with spark plugs and leads?

[lhurley]

So I woke up and started thinking. The power is only totally down and erratic when at idle and coming up to speed. Could this maybe eliminate vacuum lines as the miss seems to disappear higher in the rev range? Would/could the symptoms be associated with spark plugs and leads?

Nah plugs and leads would be consistent if not worse at higher revs. I think evo might be on to something with the running both fuels. If that was the gas it would run like a pig in low revs as it's running to rich, but be some what better at higher revs and it requires more fuel then and could be leaning out a bit/enough to seem ok.

Do you have a snorkel?

[ozzymalone]

Thanks guys. Also of note too. It seems to idle more smoothly on gas. Higher revs, more stable idle but still has a miss. And no snorkel yet lhurley

[lhurley]

Reason I asked about the snorkel is that it creates positive pressure in the air intake when at speed, and this causes havoc with mixer type gas systems.

On the air intake, probably close to the engine, is the like stubby cooler type thing over a hole?? That can cause issues to if it is split. A back fire could of split it.

[ozzymalone]

On the air intake, probably close to the engine, is the like stubby cooler type thing over a hole?? That can cause issues to if it is split. A back fire could of split it.[/QUOTE]

Still not 100% sure if there was a backfire. The stubby cooler type thing you refer to is that like a rubber cap looking thing after the main intake between the mixer/injection and the short sleeve of plumbing? Ta'

[lhurley]

On the air intake, probably close to the engine, is the like stubby cooler type thing over a hole?? That can cause issues to if it is split. A back fire could of split it.

Still not 100% sure if there was a backfire. The stubby cooler type thing you refer to is that like a rubber cap looking thing after the main intake between the mixer/injection and the short sleeve of plumbing? Ta'[/QUOTE]

That could be it, i would need to see it to really know. pics?

For starters just make sure everything is tight, check for leaks and see what you can find. Also check your fluids, give them a sniff to see if they smell wrong.

[Evo]

Any closer mate?

Do you have the little control box on the firewall or near the converter (just looking at my setup) which controls your gas?
Could be this needs a retune, also could be relays that cut the injectors could be faulty.

Evo

[4by]

Just to eliminate it wont be the maf as the car should still run perfect on lpg as lpg doesn't use the maf. It would only run terrible on petrol. I recently replaced my maf and this was the symptoms.

[patrol2.8]

My daughters car (astra) was running the same as you described turned out to be a dodgy coil pack

[Winnie]

Just to eliminate it wont be the maf as the car should still run perfect on lpg as lpg doesn't use the maf. It would only run terrible on petrol. I recently replaced my maf and this was the symptoms.

Was just gonna say that... Coil packs worth testing for sure, my old Falcon had similar symptoms and it was the coil pack.

[ozzymalone]

Well when it was all said and done a mysterious man with a golden patrol ute showed up to give us a hand, will post a pick tonight if I get a chance. Was a simple fix in the end as it was the shorter length of intake plumbing between the mixer and the throttle body had worked loose and was letting air into the system. I had already given it a good tug and turn but must admit I wasn't too rough when I needed to be and didn't realise it basically had no hold on the throttle body. Thank you all once again for your input & experience. And big props to the mystery man with the golden ute, you know who you are ;)

[my third 256]

good outcome glad it was an easy fix
and well done to the golden patrol man
i hope you gave him a carton of xxxx gold

[4by]

What a good outcome. Cheap easy fix plus a great forum when others are there to lend a hand. Well done.

[ozzymalone]

Was a great outcome! I offered his choice of liquid supplements but he wouldn't accept (gracious bloke that one). Might end up with a gift on his doorstep though.

[Evo]

Good to hear it wasn't a major issue.

Must be almost jumping for joy now and itching to take it for a good long run?

Evo

[ozzymalone]

Good to hear it wasn't a major issue.

Must be almost jumping for joy now and itching to take it for a good long run?

Evo

Yeah mate. Will have to get a Gas mob to give the system a looksie so I don't get any more backfiring issues but in the meantime will be giving her a good flogging on petrol. LPG isn't worth it with its' price at the moment anyway. Just have to sort out some long overdue work on the donk (replacing rocker covers, adjusting tappets and give her a proper service) and hopefully be able to scrounge up some dollars for a lift. The stock shock are showing their age and are sagged but the truck still does the easy, moderate stuff with relative ease.