MYSTERY ISSUE. Doing my head in. Please Help!

[Evo]

Ok,

Driving me absolutely mental, to the point where I'm ready to sell it (MOF has said I'm not allowed to sell this one) but I don't want to be spending money replacing things one by one until this issue is sorted. Haven't been able to sleep, just keep trying to think what it could be and pinpoint where this issue is.

It is a 98 GU 4.5 Petrol, manual.

Nothing has been changed prior to this starting.

So it started almost 2 weeks ago, and has only gotten slightly worse.
When driving, Troll is fine until over 50kph. If feathering the throttle, very lightly on and off, there's a grinding noise/slight vibration (best description would be more of a growling) that can be heard/felt through the vehicle. Under acceleration I can't detect it, and off throttle (engine braking) I can't detect it either.
Also, once over 60kph or so, if the clutch pedal is held in, or if gear lever is put in neutral with clutch pedal out, noise is constant.
It is more prominent at higher speeds.
I can't pinpoint the origin, other than I am pretty sure it is in driveline.

Have been to 3 different places, all have test driven and inspected. Here's their provided info.

1. One says that the front shaft can't cope with lift, needs a second uni joint on one end (double cardan???)

2. One said clutch bearing on its way (they also said uni joints and all wheel bearings are fine)

3. One said rear diff needs rebuild

Don't know which one, if any, to go with.

I have a bit of mechanical knowledge, don't know all, nor have very in depth knowledge, but have thought about a few things. Pretty straight forward I think (in my mind it all makes sense).

Please correct me if I'm wrong anywhere.

With 1. Troll has been driving fine with lift, etc, nothing had changed just before the noise started, plus transfer in 2H with hubs on Auto, would mean front shaft isn't moving.

With 2. 'growl' is worse at higher speed, where as the clutch bearing would only turn as fast as motor rpm (which is lower in a higher gear at speed) plus the 'growl' doesn't change with engine speed.

With 3. I am leaning more to this as the explanation for this 'growl', mainly due to the speed factor, being that rear tailshaft, rear diff, rear wheels (bearings) are all increasing rpm with more speed.

The thoughts I have on 3. also made me wonder if it might be front wheels (bearings) as these also increase rpm with speed increase.
HOWEVER
With front wheel bearings, would the feathering of the throttle on and off (on and off load) cause front wheel bearing issues to become apparent as there is no drive on these wheels?

Any info, suggestions, help in general would be appreciated, preferably before I go looking for a box of matches.

If I have missed anything, or any additional info is needed, please tell me, and I'll do my best.

Thanks in advance.

Cheers,

Evo

[BigRAWesty]

Are all your fluids up??
Diffs, transfer and gear box? And driveline greased??

[threedogs]

Where is the vibration? through the steering wheel or through the pedals

[kevin07]

if its in the tail shaft you should be able to feel it chock the wheels get under there in neutral and have a good push pull session any movement up and down and sideways and that should answer all.

[threedogs]

Not the tensioner pulley bearing ??

[nissannewby]

By what you describe it sounds like the rear tail shaft uni's could be on their way out. I would take it out and inspect that way, it may feel fine in place but once removed you can move it around etc and might find it's seized or knotchy. It's an easy place to start.

Also check to see if there is excessive movement in your slip joint.

[Robo]

So the noise is when vehicle is coasting along right! (engine neither loaded or unloaded).

You mention at 60 kph driving, clutch pedal in or out problem arises, so I'm leaning towards.
manual gear box input bearing, it's another that can make this noise.

tail shafts unbolt fairly easy and in ya hand the uni's can be felt for movement easily.
just mark their alignment and put em back on in the same position they were removed,
otherwise you can get a vibration if shafts are out of alignment.

belts easy to remove from engine and check for noisey bearings.
tensioner, alternator, power steer.


My son's mav had badly worn oil pump chain and gear which made this sorta noise you describe.
this noise transferred through the cooling system also and radiated in the cab through the interior heater core, which at first had me wondering where the devil it was coming from. but it was very loud. so sounds like your's is else where.

[Evo]

Ok, before I answer your posts, there has been some kind of development.

Now it can be heard/felt on acceleration from 30ish up.
Went to a diff specialist today, they dropped tailshaft and said diff is fine, tailshaft is fine, uni joints are fine, said it might be wheel bearings, but sent me down the road to another place.
Transmission specialist. Thought possible engine mount, or a mount, then after drive said its not a mount. Said it appears to be on the output side of transmission, so could be gears or bearing...
So 2 more different answers.

Westy's
All fluids have been drained to check for contamination/particles, all fine, all filled and levels checked again also.

theedogs
Can be felt through steering, pedals, seat (not sure if seat is more in my head) and floor.

Kevin07, nissannewby, Robo
Tailshaft has been removed, slip joint, uni joints, balance, all checked and came up good.

threedogs, Robo
Motor has had a lot of preventative maintenance. All belts were removed, pulleys checked, oil pump is fine, but motor revs/engine speed don't change the frequency or make it worse. So I would say motor is eliminated?

Only gets worse as road speed increases...

Still not really any closer...

Evo

[threedogs]

So you cant replicate it standing still??
brake pads worn right down ??

[Evo]

I will also add, due to my back issues, I'm relying on these 'professionals' as I am unable to check or do things myself.

Evo

[threedogs]

so can it be replicated standing still idling

[Evo]

So you cant replicate it standing still??
brake pads worn right down ??

When stationary, nothing. Under braking, no shudders or noises.
All brakes were fine with plenty of life left when checked.
Coasting in neutral above 60 and it's there as a constant noise, and now it's there under acceleration, but not as bad as when coasting.

Evo

[threedogs]

and its an auto, so only leaving trans and or wheel bearings.
Not something stupid like a bent disc guard

[Evo]

so can it be replicated standing still idling

Nope, idles fine, no different to before the problem started.
Not evident when driving slow (creeping along) as I tried this on our street with the door open...
Even had the missus walking along beside it...
Nothing...

Evo

[Evo]

and its an auto, so only leaving trans and or wheel bearings.
Not something stupid like a bent disc guard

No, it's manual.

Disc guards are fine.

Haven't hit anything, haven't even put it out of 2H or been offroad in the last couple of months.

Evo

[macca]

When you had each of the shafts out did you take it for a run?
What about you tyres, raise the pressure to 60psi and take it for a run then.
Just thinking of ways to eliminate stuff.

[Evo]

When you had each of the shafts out did you take it for a run?
What about you tyres, raise the pressure to 60psi and take it for a run then.
Just thinking of ways to eliminate stuff.

Shafts were taken out at the shop so I don't know about taking for a run, but I understand what you are saying.
Tyres aren't very old, pressures are good and they were only balanced and rotated probably 3 weeks before this issue, and I wouldn't have done any more than about 500kms in that time.
I do have tyre noise, but this is definitely not tyre noise.

Evo

[macca]

Mate did this raise its head after the tyre were done?

[Evo]

Mate did this raise its head after the tyre were done?

No, only started about 1.5-2 weeks ago.

Evo

[threedogs]

any members close by that could go for a drive with you to nut it out

[Evo]

any members close by that could go for a drive with you to nut it out

Not sure.

Evo

[nissannewby]

so can it be replicated standing still idling


and its an auto, so only leaving trans and or wheel bearings.
Not something stupid like a bent disc guard

Again mate READ the posts before responding. It saves people having to write everything twice and then you don't look silly either.

[threedogs]

out of interest what tyres did you fit

[Evo]

It's got 305 70 R16 Summit Mud Hogs.
Same size was on it before, different brand, but fronts were almost bald, so got 4 new ones.

Evo

[Parksy]

I know you said they checked the uni joints, but this is all that I can think of. Do they have grease nipples? If so give em a squirt with a grease gun, if you don't have one ask your friendly mechanic to quickly give them a grease. If no change, try removing the rear tail shaft and go for a spin in front wheel drive. Need to eliminate the problem because if it's starting to happen at a slower speed, it's obviously getting worse.

I know with the transfer case that they put ATF in them if you have auto hubs. Reason for this is with regular, thicker oil, when cold, the front drive shaft will turn and if you had auto hubs, would engage them. If you can remove the filler bung and stick your finger in, you should be able to tell what fluid you have in there.

[Evo]

I know you said they checked the uni joints, but this is all that I can think of. Do they have grease nipples? If so give em a squirt with a grease gun, if you don't have one ask your friendly mechanic to quickly give them a grease. If no change, try removing the rear tail shaft and go for a spin in front wheel drive. Need to eliminate the problem because if it's starting to happen at a slower speed, it's obviously getting worse.

I know with the transfer case that they put ATF in them if you have auto hubs. Reason for this is with regular, thicker oil, when cold, the front drive shaft will turn and if you had auto hubs, would engage them. If you can remove the filler bung and stick your finger in, you should be able to tell what fluid you have in there.

Uni joints were all greased.
It happens whether cold or at running temp.
I have back issues, so that's why I'm relying on these 'professionals' to check things out because I can't do it myself.

Evo

[BigRAWesty]

If you coast at 60k and feather the throttle but with clutch in do you get the noise??
I'm guessing speed doesn't matter, Its the engine rpm range, so what rpms do you notice it happening?
And what gears??

[Evo]

If you coast at 60k and feather the throttle but with clutch in do you get the noise??
I'm guessing speed doesn't matter, Its the engine rpm range, so what rpms do you notice it happening?
And what gears??

Coasting at 60 or above, clutch in, it's there whether feathering the throttle or not.
It depends on road speed, not engine rpm.
It does it regardless of what gear, just speeds.

Evo

[MudRunnerTD]

I would remove the front drive shaft and go for a drive and see if it is still there???

I have had a similar type of thing.... I think? It turned out my Auto hubs had not disengaged and although I was in 2wd I was still locked in 4wd. Worth a shot. You would not likely feel this vibe offroad so may not notice.

It would take 5 minutes to remove the front shaft and worth a drive, you could be chasing a ghost mate.

[PMC]

Ok,

Driving me absolutely mental, to the point where I'm ready to sell it (MOF has said I'm not allowed to sell this one) but I don't want to be spending money replacing things one by one until this issue is sorted. Haven't been able to sleep, just keep trying to think what it could be and pinpoint where this issue is.

It is a 98 GU 4.5 Petrol, manual.

Nothing has been changed prior to this starting.

So it started almost 2 weeks ago, and has only gotten slightly worse.
When driving, Troll is fine until over 50kph. If feathering the throttle, very lightly on and off, there's a grinding noise/slight vibration (best description would be more of a growling) that can be heard/felt through the vehicle. Under acceleration I can't detect it, and off throttle (engine braking) I can't detect it either.
Also, once over 60kph or so, if the clutch pedal is held in, or if gear lever is put in neutral with clutch pedal out, noise is constant.
It is more prominent at higher speeds.
I can't pinpoint the origin, other than I am pretty sure it is in driveline.

Have been to 3 different places, all have test driven and inspected. Here's their provided info.

1. One says that the front shaft can't cope with lift, needs a second uni joint on one end (double cardan???)

2. One said clutch bearing on its way (they also said uni joints and all wheel bearings are fine)

3. One said rear diff needs rebuild

Don't know which one, if any, to go with.

I have a bit of mechanical knowledge, don't know all, nor have very in depth knowledge, but have thought about a few things. Pretty straight forward I think (in my mind it all makes sense).

Please correct me if I'm wrong anywhere.

With 1. Troll has been driving fine with lift, etc, nothing had changed just before the noise started, plus transfer in 2H with hubs on Auto, would mean front shaft isn't moving.

With 2. 'growl' is worse at higher speed, where as the clutch bearing would only turn as fast as motor rpm (which is lower in a higher gear at speed) plus the 'growl' doesn't change with engine speed.

With 3. I am leaning more to this as the explanation for this 'growl', mainly due to the speed factor, being that rear tailshaft, rear diff, rear wheels (bearings) are all increasing rpm with more speed.

The thoughts I have on 3. also made me wonder if it might be front wheels (bearings) as these also increase rpm with speed increase.
HOWEVER
With front wheel bearings, would the feathering of the throttle on and off (on and off load) cause front wheel bearing issues to become apparent as there is no drive on these wheels?

Any info, suggestions, help in general would be appreciated, preferably before I go looking for a box of matches.

If I have missed anything, or any additional info is needed, please tell me, and I'll do my best.

Thanks in advance.

Cheers,

Evo

G'day Evo,

If you can, choc your front wheels, jack up the rear diff so the tyres are a good inch from the ground and support with stands, leaving the jack with most of the load on it.

Start Patrol and use first to second to third and then to forth gear gentle pushing the speed up to the 6o km mark that you have been hearing the noise. Feathering the throttle, very lightly on and off to see if it makes a noise!

If it does, we know the noise is from the motor back to the rear end!

Put Patrol in neutral and apply your brakes gently to stop rear wheels from rotating, note if any noise occurs whilst braking. If noise occurs check both calipers,disks and wheel bearings.

If there is no noise, slowly get out of the Patrol whilst engine is idling and grab the driver’s side rear wheel and hear for any metallic grinding noises, do the same for the passenger side rear.

What you are doing is placing a shock load to the diff and rear wheel bearings when you grad one of the rear wheels, if a noise occurs, then we now know the noise is coming from one of these component’s. Its then a process of elimination!

1. Stop Patrol, remove both wheels. Use first to second to third and then to forth gear gentle pushing the speed up to the 60 km mark that you have been hearing the noise. Feathering the throttle, very lightly on and off to see if it makes a noise!

If there is a noise, it’s then coming from either the drive shaft or the diff.

If there is no noise, it’s then one of the rear wheel bearings.

Fit the passenger side rear wheel back on. Start Patrol whilst engine is still idling and grab the passenger’s side rear wheel and hear for any metallic grinding noises.

If there is, then then stop Patrol and refit driver’s side wheel and then remove passenger side rear wheel. Start Patrol whilst engine is still idling and grab the driver’s side rear wheel and hear for any metallic grinding noises. If there is no noise, then it’s the passenger side rear wheel bearings.

IF there is no noise coming after these tests, whilst the rear is still on stands, with another jack and another set of stands jack up the front, so the front wheels are off the ground
.
Start Patrol and engage high-range, gently engage first to second to third and then to forth gear gentle pushing the speed up to the 60 km mark that you have been hearing the noise. Feathering the throttle, very lightly on and off to see if it makes a noise!

If no noise, slowly get out of the Patrol whilst engine is idling and grab the driver’s side front wheel and hear for any metallic grinding noises, do the same for the passenger side front.

Unless you have the proper safety equipment, do not attempt jacking the front wheels. Go to a Mechanic who can perform these tests on a hoist safely.

By doing the test on the front wheels you are trying find out which wheel bearing is at fault, in a workshop environment, I would disconnect the rear tail shaft and then conduct the test, it eliminates the rear wheels being engaged and places greater load to the front diff and front wheel bearings.

Questions:

1. Did you see the mechanic conduct the tests on your Patrol? If so, did he have the vehicle on a hoist conducting simular test’s that I have just mentioned above?

2. What year is your Patrol? I do know that the synchromesh gears did play up with some of the early GU’s 1997 to 2001 4.5 petrol models. Especially third gear synchro.

3. When was the last time you did a water crossing, especially salt water?

PS, If you cannot get a friend who is mechanically to conduct the tests above safely (due to your back), then please go and ask your mechanic to perform them for you on his workshop hoist.

Regards,

RLI

[PMC]

I would remove the front drive shaft and go for a drive and see if it is still there???

I have had a similar type of thing.... I think? It turned out my Auto hubs had not disengaged and although I was in 2wd I was still locked in 4wd. Worth a shot. You would not likely feel this vibe offroad so may not notice.

It would take 5 minutes to remove the front shaft and worth a drive, you could be chasing a ghost mate.

Also as MudRunner has suggested!

I just remembered that My auto hubs played up with me in Tassie in 2005 on my 1999 4.2 turbo diesel Patrol wagon. I had a prick of a grinding noise going from 40ks to 80ks. The circlip had come loose on my drivers side hub and failed to disengage causing damage to that hub. I then replaced my auto hubs with manual hubs!

PS, good call MudRunner!

Regards,

RLI

[liftlid]

Try coasting with engine turned off and trans in neutral, that will eliminate engine, your problem sounds like tail shaft, maybe slip joint, try mud runners idea also, and yes I have read the other posts.

[Evo]

G'day Evo,

If you can, choc your front wheels, jack up the rear diff so the tyres are a good inch from the ground and support with stands, leaving the jack with most of the load on it.

Start Patrol and use first to second to third and then to forth gear gentle pushing the speed up to the 6o km mark that you have been hearing the noise. Feathering the throttle, very lightly on and off to see if it makes a noise!

If it does, we know the noise is from the motor back to the rear end!

Put Patrol in neutral and apply your brakes gently to stop rear wheels from rotating, note if any noise occurs whilst braking. If noise occurs check both calipers,disks and wheel bearings.

If there is no noise, slowly get out of the Patrol whilst engine is idling and grab the driver’s side rear wheel and hear for any metallic grinding noises, do the same for the passenger side rear.

What you are doing is placing a shock load to the diff and rear wheel bearings when you grad one of the rear wheels, if a noise occurs, then we now know the noise is coming from one of these component’s. Its then a process of elimination!

1. Stop Patrol, remove both wheels. Use first to second to third and then to forth gear gentle pushing the speed up to the 60 km mark that you have been hearing the noise. Feathering the throttle, very lightly on and off to see if it makes a noise!

If there is a noise, it’s then coming from either the drive shaft or the diff.

If there is no noise, it’s then one of the rear wheel bearings.

Fit the passenger side rear wheel back on. Start Patrol whilst engine is still idling and grab the passenger’s side rear wheel and hear for any metallic grinding noises.

If there is, then then stop Patrol and refit driver’s side wheel and then remove passenger side rear wheel. Start Patrol whilst engine is still idling and grab the driver’s side rear wheel and hear for any metallic grinding noises. If there is no noise, then it’s the passenger side rear wheel bearings.

IF there is no noise coming after these tests, whilst the rear is still on stands, with another jack and another set of stands jack up the front, so the front wheels are off the ground
.
Start Patrol and engage high-range, gently engage first to second to third and then to forth gear gentle pushing the speed up to the 60 km mark that you have been hearing the noise. Feathering the throttle, very lightly on and off to see if it makes a noise!

If no noise, slowly get out of the Patrol whilst engine is idling and grab the driver’s side front wheel and hear for any metallic grinding noises, do the same for the passenger side front.

Unless you have the proper safety equipment, do not attempt jacking the front wheels. Go to a Mechanic who can perform these tests on a hoist safely.

By doing the test on the front wheels you are trying find out which wheel bearing is at fault, in a workshop environment, I would disconnect the rear tail shaft and then conduct the test, it eliminates the rear wheels being engaged and places greater load to the front diff and front wheel bearings.

Questions:

1. Did you see the mechanic conduct the tests on your Patrol? If so, did he have the vehicle on a hoist conducting simular test’s that I have just mentioned above?

2. What year is your Patrol? I do know that the synchromesh gears did play up with some of the early GU’s 1997 to 2001 4.5 petrol models. Especially third gear synchro.

3. When was the last time you did a water crossing, especially salt water?

PS, If you cannot get a friend who is mechanically to conduct the tests above safely (due to your back), then please go and ask your mechanic to perform them for you on his workshop hoist.

Regards,

RLI

In answering your questions...
1. Yes
2. 1998
3. I have only done 1 crossing, over 6 months ago, have had diff oil changed since then.

Each place I have gone to have all taken a drive, and have all except 1 have come back and done tests in the workshop.
2 of them had it on a hoist, the other 2 checked it on its wheels.

Not sure where to go from here.

Evo

[PMC]

In answering your questions...
1. Yes
2. 1998
3. I have only done 1 crossing, over 6 months ago, have had diff oil changed since then.

Each place I have gone to have all taken a drive, and have all except 1 have come back and done tests in the workshop.
2 of them had it on a hoist, the other 2 checked it on its wheels.

Not sure where to go from here.

Evo

G'day Evo,

Question: When was the last time you were off-road?

The only other explanation could be the tail shaft out of balance, check to see if the balance weights are on the shaft. Also check if you have a dent in the shaft.

PS, As previously stated, I had a prick of a grinding noise going from 40ks to 80ks. The circlip had come loose on my drivers side hub and failed to disengage causing damage to that hub. I then replaced my auto hubs with manual hubs! No more problems.

Regards,

RLI

[Dales300exc]

I get a nice grumble/growl when I forget to unlock my manual hubs and run down the highway.

Could be auto hubs.

[Parksy]

Lock your hubs and see if the noise is still there. Most simplest method to see if there is any change in noise or not.

[Evo]

G'day Evo,

Question: When was the last time you were off-road?

The only other explanation could be the tail shaft out of balance, check to see if the balance weights are on the shaft. Also check if you have a dent in the shaft.

PS, As previously stated, I had a prick of a grinding noise going from 40ks to 80ks. The circlip had come loose on my drivers side hub and failed to disengage causing damage to that hub. I then replaced my auto hubs with manual hubs! No more problems.

Regards,

RLI

Last time I was offroad was I think September last year.

Going for another drive while it's quiet.

Will report back in 30 or so.

Evo

[Evo]

Ok, so drove, listened, same thing still there. Was there with motor off, hubs locked in or free.
Gritted my teeth and Bit the bullet (got in trouble when the MOF found me under the car), pulled and pushed shafts while in neutral, got the missus to turn the wheels, play with the clutch, and found 2 things.

The rear shaft has no axial (in/out) play or no up/down/sideways movement at gearbox or diff. It does however have some slight rotational play. Is this normal?

Also, just behind the handbrake drum (on back of transmission) there is a crossmember that runs between the chassis rails, right in front of the sub tank. The tailshaft has some fresh looking rotational marks right in line with the highest point of the crossbeam under it. I tried to put my finger between the shaft and crossbeam, but couldn't squeeze it all the way into the gap. I would say the gap would be between 8-10mm
Does this gap sound too small or would the shaft distort that much to contact here?

Also, would either of these be signs of diff wear?

Evo

[nissannewby]

Yes there should be a little rotational play.

There certainly should be a bigger gap than that between shaft and crossmember. If there is fresh metal visable this could well be your noise.

If your tail shaft had half a turn of play then yes it can be a sign of wear. But it should be less than 1/4 maybe around 1/8 of a turn.

[Evo]

Yes there should be a little rotational play.

There certainly should be a bigger gap than that between shaft and crossmember. If there is fresh metal visable this could well be your noise.

If your tail shaft had half a turn of play then yes it can be a sign of wear. But it should be less than 1/4 maybe around 1/8 of a turn.

The play is a lot less than 1/8.
If this is the issue, what would cause the tailshaft to start contacting the crossmember all of a sudden, quiet smooth running, then one day, starts giving me grief...

I'm planning to look into this more tomorrow and over the weekend.

Will keep everyone updated.

Appreciate the suggestions and info.

Cheers,

Evo

[BigRAWesty]

Do you have a lift kit fitted?

Also gearbox mounts may be stuffed and allowed the gear box to drop, thus reducing the cross member and shaft gap.

[mudnut]

If it does have a lift done, maybe they didn't fit gearbox spacers.

[Evo]

Westy's, mudnut
Yes, has a lift, but had the lift for a while.
Not sure about gearbox spacers. What do they look like? Washers or a plate? But wouldn't spacers bring the gearbox down, bringing the shaft closer to this crossmember?
Not sure about mounts.
Am going to wait for MOF to get home before I go looking under again.

Cheers,

Evo

[nissannewby]

You could try taking the rear shaft out, lock your hubs and put it 4wd so it basically becomes a front wheel drive. If the noise is gone then great if not then it rules it out.

[Parksy]

Ok, so drove, listened, same thing still there. Was there with motor off, hubs locked in or free.
Gritted my teeth and Bit the bullet (got in trouble when the MOF found me under the car), pulled and pushed shafts while in neutral, got the missus to turn the wheels, play with the clutch, and found 2 things.

The rear shaft has no axial (in/out) play or no up/down/sideways movement at gearbox or diff. It does however have some slight rotational play. Is this normal?

Also, just behind the handbrake drum (on back of transmission) there is a crossmember that runs between the chassis rails, right in front of the sub tank. The tailshaft has some fresh looking rotational marks right in line with the highest point of the crossbeam under it. I tried to put my finger between the shaft and crossbeam, but couldn't squeeze it all the way into the gap. I would say the gap would be between 8-10mm
Does this gap sound too small or would the shaft distort that much to contact here?

Also, would either of these be signs of diff wear?

Evo

So just confirming with this response, with the hubs either locked or not, there was no change in noise? When the front hubs are locked, as previously mentioned, they do make abit of noise. I'm guessing your auto hubs aren't disengaging and your front prop is spinning.

[mudnut]

Westy's, mudnut
Yes, has a lift, but had the lift for a while.
Not sure about gearbox spacers. What do they look like? Washers or a plate? But wouldn't spacers bring the gearbox down, bringing the shaft closer to this crossmember?
Not sure about mounts.
Am going to wait for MOF to get home before I go looking under again.

Cheers,

Evo

Can you get some photos of the set up. As Westy said, the mounts could be stuffed.

[Evo]

Ok, so after a few pain killers, a lot of huffing and puffing, a lot of pretending I was a turtle on my back, and many many obscenities, I have ruled out a few things.

-There are no transmission crossmember spacers
-Tail shaft is not contacting the crossmember (front or rear shafts)
-I found the lock nut on the front panhard was floating along the threads (tightened that which solved my steering click)
-Rear diff seems fine, no play in the yoke
-Noise seems to be forward of the front seats
-When jolting the clutch from standstill in first or reverse, there seems to be a clunk or knock in the front end
-When rocking the front side to side (pushing and pulling top of tyre to make front of car move) there seems to be play somewhere in the front axle/suspension.
-Put in 4H, pulled forward, heard hubs click in. Idled along in 1st gear in 4H, jumped out and walked next to car, everything spinning smoothly, front shaft, rear shaft, nothing touching or grinding
-Put in 2H, reversed, heard hubs click out. Idled along again, jumped out again, front shaft not spinning, everything else fine as before


Does this narrow anything down for anyone?

Cheers,

Evo

[mudnut]

With the nut loose on the panhard, the dished washer should be fitted with the convex side to the rubber (dish to nut), or it will loosen the nut. That clunk, or knock could be a loose front wheel bearing. Jack up the front axle until the front wheels are off the ground. Pack under the axle so it wont move, then check if there is vertical movement of the wheels. Also make sure the handbrake is releasing fully as it can cause strange noises to appear in the drive train.

[Evo]

With the nut loose on the panhard, the dished washer should be fitted with the convex side to the rubber (dish to nut), or it will loosen the nut. That clunk, or knock could be a loose front wheel bearing. Jack up the front axle until the front wheels are off the ground. Pack under the axle so it wont move, then check if there is vertical movement of the wheels. Also make sure the handbrake is releasing fully as it can cause strange noises to appear in the drive train.

Panhard has no rubber or washer on the locking nut.
Handbrake is always fully off (I make sure every time)
As for jacking up the front, I don't have the gear to do that sort of thing.
When you say loose bearing, is there an adjustment on there? And would this possibly explain the rumbling issue?

Cheers

Evo

[threedogs]

You can adjust the front wheel bearings, but when mine were loose I had a
shudder of the steering wheel under brakes, but sounds like you're getting closer

[mudnut]

This is a picture of a GQ panhard. Note the washer clamps onto the steel tube in the centre of the panhard bush. To check the wheel bearings, just do one side at a time, using the nissan jack.

[BigRAWesty]

Hhmmmm..
Have you tried 4h at speed, 60k etc?

[Evo]

Panhard locking nut on the adjustment thread, not mountings.
Only jack I have is a hi lift and I'm not too keen on using that.

Will 4H on bitumen at speed not cause transmission windup?

Evo

[nissannewby]

Panhard locking nut on the adjustment thread, not mountings.
Only jack I have is a hi lift and I'm not too keen on using that.

Will 4H on bitumen at speed not cause transmission windup?

Evo


Should fine as long as all your Tyres are the same size and you don't have a locked differential.

[BigRAWesty]

Should fine as long as all your Tyres are the same size and you don't have a locked differential.

Along as you remember to take it out after lol..

[mudnut]

Panhard has no rubber or washer on the locking nut.
Handbrake is always fully off (I make sure every time)
As for jacking up the front, I don't have the gear to do that sort of thing.
When you say loose bearing, is there an adjustment on there? And would this possibly explain the rumbling issue?

Cheers

Evo

My bad, didn't read your post properly, the word LOCKING escaped me, somehow. I should have wrote 'binding on' when explaining about the handbrake. I had a knocking and grinding noise which manifested itself in the front left hub. It turned out to be the handbrake shoe wasn't fully clear of the drum when released.

Weird but true.

[happygu]

Evo,

As you are incapacitated with your bad back, I would just put it in with the mechanic you felt you got the best advice from....

I had a squeak in the front end of a Falcon, which I could swear was coming from the strut, and in taking it to my mechanic, he immediately diagnosed it as a ball joint - which it ended up being and he was totally correct....not all mechanics are useless, as they build up a large knowledge bank of potential problems and fixes

Mic

[Evo]

I am considering going with the one who said its the clutch, as I will be needing to replace it this year sometime anyway, but it will take me a while to get enough money for that, so was hoping this would be a cheaper fix to keep me mobile until clutch funds have grown.

Evo

[Clunk]

just seen your thread mate, sorry but I'm not overly mechanically minded but if I can be of any assistance I will..... I'm in Redcliffe, so about half hour away. I think Rustyboner lives quite near to you, so maybe we might be able to get down and have a gander.......... But would probably have to be next weekend for me if you can wait

[happygu]

Good stuff Clunky

[Evo]

just seen your thread mate, sorry but I'm not overly mechanically minded but if I can be of any assistance I will..... I'm in Redcliffe, so about half hour away. I think Rustyboner lives quite near to you, so maybe we might be able to get down and have a gander.......... But would probably have to be next weekend for me if you can wait

Appreciate the offer mate. Thanks.
It's going in Wednesday first thing for a test to locate exactly where this issue is. Hopefully I will know enough to update after I get home.
Not sure myself but someone might know of this test. They attach sensors to different parts of the vehicle, and have a device that let's them listen to each sensor individually for noises.
Hope this works.
Thanks again Clunk, might have to take you up on that offer if Wednesday turns up unfruitful.

Cheers

Evo

[Clunk]

Appreciate the offer mate. Thanks.
It's going in Wednesday first thing for a test to locate exactly where this issue is. Hopefully I will know enough to update after I get home.
Not sure myself but someone might know of this test. They attach sensors to different parts of the vehicle, and have a device that let's them listen to each sensor individually for noises.
Hope this works.
Thanks again Clunk, might have to take you up on that offer if Wednesday turns up unfruitful.

Cheers

Evo

Good luck with it Evo, keep us updated mate

[Stropp]

Yep I'm happy to come look as well, never know between us all we may be able to find something wrong.

[Evo]

Thanks Stropp and Clunk.
Will post up the outcome of Wednesday.

Cheers,

Evo

[Stropp]

Thanks Stropp and Clunk.
Will post up the outcome of Wednesday.

Cheers,

Evo

Ok mate seems like you have it under control for now, let's know what the outcome is and I will give you a hand if you need it.

[Dales300exc]

Appreciate the offer mate. Thanks.
It's going in Wednesday first thing for a test to locate exactly where this issue is. Hopefully I will know enough to update after I get home.
Not sure myself but someone might know of this test. They attach sensors to different parts of the vehicle, and have a device that let's them listen to each sensor individually for noises.
Hope this works.
Thanks again Clunk, might have to take you up on that offer if Wednesday turns up unfruitful.

Cheers

Evo

Yep. Basically an electronic stethoscope with multiple inputs. Works a treat.

[Woof]

As Clunky and Stropp said, give us a yell and we will be there to help...................not that I would be of any use but you never know..lol

[macca]

Do you have a dual mass flywheel?, hard to answer I know unless you had one fitted.
They do weird stuff when the start to fail.
Whatever it is it should show up on the test you are talking about, all very interesting.
Long gone are the days of listening via the end of a screwdriver!

[Evo]

Do you have a dual mass flywheel?, hard to answer I know unless you had one fitted.
They do weird stuff when the start to fail.
Whatever it is it should show up on the test you are talking about, all very interesting.
Long gone are the days of listening via the end of a screwdriver!

Not sure about the dual mass flywheel.
Some have said the TB45 didn't have one, some say they did, I don't know either way.

Cheers,

Evo

[Clunk]

Not sure about the dual mass flywheel.
Some have said the TB45 didn't have one, some say they did, I don't know either way.

Cheers,

Evo

I was also under the impression the TB45s didn't. Thought it was just the 3ltr wheezers

[Evo]

I was also under the impression the TB45s didn't. Thought it was just the 3ltr wheezers

Yes, that's what I heard, 3.0, but also 2.8.

Picking up some manual locking/freewheeling hubs with gear to convert my auto hubs over.
$150 isn't much to avoid auto hub issues in the future (if they are still ok now)

Evo

[Evo]

Ok,

So after the fancy diagnosing session, which cost $77, the issue has been somewhat narrowed down.
The mechanic recommended I get my engine mounts replaced as they are in need of it, as he said it seems to be the plating either side of the rubber (where the plates are bent to hook into each other) as there is basically no clearance here due to the rubber having collapsed a lot.
If there is still an issue, he recommends clutch next, and has told me that rest of driveline is good.
After hearing all this, I'm still not sure whether to believe what I'm told, but engine mounts are a cheap start, so fingers crossed.
And I'll need a clutch later anyhow, I have known this since last year, but the longer I can put it off, the better.
Plus I'll get onto the auto-manual hub conversion over the weekend hopefully.
With the locking hubs, I was going to use some medium strength loctite on the cap head bolts. Is this ok or what do you guys recommend?

Cheers

Evo

[mudnut]

Torque the bolts up to what the manual states and all should be good. I always run a very light bead blue sealant between the mating surfaces as well.

[Evo]

By blue sealant, I'm guessing RTV type? Like gasket goo stuff?

Evo

[mudnut]

Yep, but just a wee bit of sealant, as you don't want any to get into the mechanism. I wonder if you could jam something (wood or rubber) into the engine mount and take the Patrol for a spin, to see if the noise disappears?

[Evo]

Yep, but just a wee bit of sealant, as you don't want any to get into the mechanism. I wonder if you could jam something (wood or rubber) into the engine mount and take the Patrol for a spin, to see if the noise disappears?

The manual hub kit I'm picking up seems to have a round gasket???
No sealant required maybe?

I'll let you know tomorrow about the mount situation.

Evo

[rkinsey]

Gday Evo.

I have read this thread and I must say well done to you and everyone for diagnosing this issue. Although you havnt got to a solution yet, I am sure that you will.

I would like to offer an experience that I am experiencing on my Ford Explorer. I have a similar noise with it however it happens irregularly and cannot be replicated, it does happen every day and is getting worse. My issue is that the Spigot Bearing (or Pilot Bearing as it is also know) in the clutch assembly is buggered and needs replacing. This I am doing in the next two weeks after the part arrives from the US. So a new clutch kit with Thrust bearing and Spigot bearing are on the cards for me.

When the grinding noise happens it is quite loud and you can feel it through the clutch pedal and the steering wheel (and yes through my butt when in the drivers seat!)

Not sure if this helps you but thought I would offer it up for you to think about. Sounds like you have eliminated everything else.

Cheers,

Rob

[mudnut]

No sealant, then. I use a tiny bit of grease on each side of the gasket to stop it from sticking to the surfaces.

[Evo]

No sealant, then. I use a tiny bit of grease on each side of the gasket to stop it from sticking to the surfaces.

Now have a choice between HD AVM hubs or another billet type manual hub.
Which one to go for?
And are they a straight replacement for the auto hubs?

Evo

[Evo]

Apparently the billet ones require some egg ring? Sounds like making Sunday breakfast while woking on the Troll.
The HD AVM ones are apparently straight bolt on...
Does this sound right?
Also, the AVM have a longer warranty than the other ones, so kinda leaning towards the AVM...

Evo

[macca]

Ok,

So after the fancy diagnosing session, which cost $77, the issue has been somewhat narrowed down.
The mechanic recommended I get my engine mounts replaced as they are in need of it, as he said it seems to be the plating either side of the rubber (where the plates are bent to hook into each other) as there is basically no clearance here due to the rubber having collapsed a lot.
If there is still an issue, he recommends clutch next, and has told me that rest of driveline is good.
After hearing all this, I'm still not sure whether to believe what I'm told, but engine mounts are a cheap start, so fingers crossed.
And I'll need a clutch later anyhow, I have known this since last year, but the longer I can put it off, the better.
Plus I'll get onto the auto-manual hub conversion over the weekend hopefully.
With the locking hubs, I was going to use some medium strength loctite on the cap head bolts. Is this ok or what do you guys recommend?

Cheers

Evo

$77.00 sounds a good price for a test like that, hope you are onto it now.

[Evo]

$77.00 sounds a good price for a test like that, hope you are onto it now.

Yeah, saves thousands in repairing things that might be fine.
Going to get engine mounts done as they need it anyway, and do the free wheeling hubs, then see how things go.

Evo

[mudnut]

I was trying to find a thread on replacement hubs. I think the advise was to get Nissan Hubs, but don't me quote on that.

[Parksy]

My advice is don't so engine mounts and hubs at the same time. Take a spin after doing one, then do the other. This way, if the problem is fixed, you know the solution.

[Evo]

I was trying to find a thread on replacement hubs. I think the advise was to get Nissan Hubs, but don't me quote on that.

I think that's what these ones are.
Had a look at the AVM hubs, but they looked a bit too complicated and too many parts.

40572


My advice is don't so engine mounts and hubs at the same time. Take a spin after doing one, then do the other. This way, if the problem is fixed, you know the solution.

I probably didn't mention it clearly, my bad, but mounts are tomorrow, hubs over weekend.
I'm not too fussed about the hubs, but fingers crossed for tomorrow.

Cheers

Evo

[Clunk]

I think that's what these ones are.
Had a look at the AVM hubs, but they looked a bit too complicated and too many parts.

40572



I probably didn't mention it clearly, my bad, but mounts are tomorrow, hubs over weekend.
I'm not too fussed about the hubs, but fingers crossed for tomorrow.

Cheers

Evo
are you getting the engine mounts done for you? Also are you doing the transmission mounts too?

[Evo]

are you getting the engine mounts done for you? Also are you doing the transmission mounts too?

Yeah, getting the engine mounts done for me.
Only engine mounts. Trans mounts checked out ok, but can only afford to do the engine ones at the moment.
If I can scrape enough together, I'll more than likely get new trans mounts when the clutch gets done.

Evo

[Clunk]

Yeah, getting the engine mounts done for me.
Only engine mounts. Trans mounts checked out ok, but can only afford to do the engine ones at the moment.
If I can scrape enough together, I'll more than likely get new trans mounts when the clutch gets done.

Evo
good stuff, I only ask because I found the engine mounts a prick of a job to do.......... so much so, I still havent done the drivers side yet lol

[Evo]

good stuff, I only ask because I found the engine mounts a prick of a job to do.......... so much so, I still havent done the drivers side yet lol

Fair call.
Definitely going to save me more grief then. lol

Evo

[Stropp]

Well done on persevering with the problem evo, let's hope the engine mounts sort the problem.

[nissannewby]

I would highly recommend using genuine mounts over aftermarket. They just seem to be built better and last longer.

[Evo]

Well done on persevering with the problem evo, let's hope the engine mounts sort the problem.

I started with fingers, but I don't think I have anything I can cross now...


I would highly recommend using genuine mounts over aftermarket. They just seem to be built better and last longer.

They tell me they will be using them, so see how it all goes.

Evo

[Evo]

Ok...

So went in and waited while the mounts were done.
All good, they showed me the old mounts... Was definitely time to replace them...
Definitely idled smoother.
Then for the drive home.
Got it up to speed...
STILL HAVE THE ISSUE!!!
So dark and blood boiling.
Came home, ripped the auto hubs off, checked, test fitted, greased, assembled, tested again.
Went for a drive...
STILL F#%&ING THERE!!!
Went back to the where I got the mounts done, and they got their ex-Nissan mechanic to take it for a drive.
Comes back...
"I think it's your diff..."
...
...
...

Evo

[happygu]

Sounds like they needed doing anyway, and it is better to have good engine mounts than have broken ones......now onto the next challenge

[Clunk]

I'm presuming they're talking front diff?

[Evo]

Apparently rear diff...

Evo

[Evo]

May have found something.
Are the centres from utes the same?

Cheers,

Evo

[nissannewby]

May have found something.
Are the centres from utes the same?

Cheers,

Evo

Yes.

I have tried to suggest this earlier but you didn't seem to acknowledge it. Remove the rear shaft and take it for a drive as this will eliminate nearly half the vehicle. Are you 100% sure your tail shaft isn't touching when driving? Get a paint pen or some spray paint and paint the earlier mark and go for a drive if no marks in paint when you get back the that's 100% ruled out.

[nissannewby]

There are also some seals on the inner side of your front wheel this area could be dry or full of crud and possibly causing an issue. Wouldn't hurt to remove and inspect at least.

[Evo]

Yes.

I have tried to suggest this earlier but you didn't seem to acknowledge it. Remove the rear shaft and take it for a drive as this will eliminate nearly half the vehicle. Are you 100% sure your tail shaft isn't touching when driving? Get a paint pen or some spray paint and paint the earlier mark and go for a drive if no marks in paint when you get back the that's 100% ruled out.

I did acknowledge and reply when you suggested to remove the shaft.
The unis, slip joint and balance was checked when it was taken out.
I haven't had the patience to check the shaft again, see what happens tomorrow.
Don't have any spray paint, or paint pens, was thinking of using some packing tape and wrap the section of shaft right over the crossmember.


There are also some seals on the inner side of your front wheel this area could be dry or full of crud and possibly causing an issue. Wouldn't hurt to remove and inspect at least.

I had a look as best I could when I did the hub conversion. Looks fine to me (not that I'm an expert), but I had hardly driven it before the problem started, so definitely no crud, and they don't appear dry.
Car was up on a hoist and noise is still present in 2H, so to me this would eliminate the front end drive line anyway.

Missed out on the diff too. Thought about it for too long...

Am thinking of investing the $350 I was going to spend on a used diff to have the diff stripped and inspected. If there is no issue, this price includes reassembly.
Sound like a reasonable price?

Have already spent about $650 to date on this issue...

Cheers

Evo

[Evo]

Almost forgot...
When replacing the auto hubs with manual hubs, how much end play should there be, and is there supposed to be any horizontal/vertical play at all or all solid?

Cheers

Evo

[liftlid]

By driving the car without the rear tail shaft you eliminate the rear diff without spending the $350 just put the nuts back on the hand break drum, good time to check the pads as well

[nissannewby]

Almost forgot...
When replacing the auto hubs with manual hubs, how much end play should there be, and is there supposed to be any horizontal/vertical play at all or all solid?

Cheers

Evo

If your talking about the shaft that is behind your locking hubs, these do have movement a few mm.

[PMC]

By driving the car without the rear tail shaft you eliminate the rear diff without spending the $350 just put the nuts back on the hand break drum, good time to check the pads as well

G'day mate,

As previously advised eliminate the front and rear diffs first as liftlid, nissannewby and I have suggested before spending your $350.00.

I wish i was at your location or you at my location, as i would have found out what the problem is, unfortunately it is difficult trying to diagnosis a problem at a distance with out seeing the Patrol.

PS, good luck!

Kind regards,

RLI

[nissannewby]

The unis, slip joint and balance was checked when it was taken out.
I was thinking of using some packing tape and wrap the section of shaft right over the crossmember.



I had a look as best I could when I did the hub conversion. Looks fine to me (not that I'm an expert)

Cheers

Evo

Yes I know the tail shaft by itself is all ok, I'm just concerned it may be touching while your driving. Having it a workshop with the wheels of the ground will be different to driving it on the bitumen.
Packing/ masking tape will work that's a good idea.

The seals I mention are in behind the wheel bearings, to inspect requires the removal of the hub the wheel bearings are mounted in and also the disc is mounted on.

[liftlid]

A while back the father in law had a weird noise in the rear of his maverick , occasionally a rubbing noise would start up at speed and stay relevant to the vehicle speed until the car stopped. then when he started moving again the noise would be gone. A few days later it would happen again. I think changing the rear wheel bearings fixed it though they seamed tight at the time.
I will check with him tonight and get back to you.

[Evo]

liftlid, nissannewby, RLI

Unfortunately removing the front or rear shafts is not something I can do. Just getting under the Troll to have a look had me in bed most of the next day.

This is why I was relying on the advice from these workshops.

Evo

[MudRunnerTD]

liftlid, nissannewby, RLI

Unfortunately removing the front or rear shafts is not something I can do. Just getting under the Troll to have a look had me in bed most of the next day.

This is why I was relying on the advice from these workshops.

Evo



Bugger, Then i'd recommend going to a workshop and asking them to remove the front shaft and You go for a Drive with the guy. if all is the same, return, remove the rear and go with him for the test drive. might cost you $80 at the most as it would be done and dusted in 30minutes and no parts uses. I am really surprised that they have not already done this to be honest??

If your tail shaft is rubbing it will be a very definite and fairly loud sound and there will be immediate damage to the shaft where the rubbing s happening. This could be as simple as flipping the front shaft if it is the trouble. it should be clearly visible when on the hoist though.

[Evo]

Bugger, Then i'd recommend going to a workshop and asking them to remove the front shaft and You go for a Drive with the guy. if all is the same, return, remove the rear and go with him for the test drive. might cost you $80 at the most as it would be done and dusted in 30minutes and no parts uses. I am really surprised that they have not already done this to be honest??

If your tail shaft is rubbing it will be a very definite and fairly loud sound and there will be immediate damage to the shaft where the rubbing s happening. This could be as simple as flipping the front shaft if it is the trouble. it should be clearly visible when on the hoist though.

Apparent all the places I rang are booked up until either late next week, or early the following week.
Have to leave it parked on the lawn until then...

Rear shaft isn't rubbing, and front isn't turning in 2H (did the jump out and walk test again) plus have the f/w manual hubs on now) so can't be the auto hubs playing up.

Just at the point of giving up...

Evo

[happygu]

Evo,

Is the noise getting worse as you drive it or is it staying the same?

If it is getting worse, the more you drive it, the closer you are to solving the problem.:devilred:

If it is staying the same, and there isn't that much noise, it will probably be Ok to drive around gently till you get it fixed.

Mic

[Evo]

Evo,

Is the noise getting worse as you drive it or is it staying the same?

If it is getting worse, the more you drive it, the closer you are to solving the problem.:devilred:

If it is staying the same, and there isn't that much noise, it will probably be Ok to drive around gently till you get it fixed.

Mic

It has gotten a bit worse, but I have this fear that if this keeps getting worse, it will affect the next link in the chain, and so on...
It's just worse the more I go over 60kph. Time to get the book out on "How to drive like Grandma".

Evo

[Evo]

Not sure if it's good or bad news, but the issue has been somewhat narrowed down.

It's on the driveline behind the clutch.

More to follow hopefully in the next day or 2.

Evo

[Clunk]

Not sure if it's good or bad news, but the issue has been somewhat narrowed down.

It's on the driveline behind the clutch.

More to follow hopefully in the next day or 2.

Evo

So may very well be something to do with the rear diff then........... i guess fluids had been done fairly recently?

[liftlid]

Any chance of recording the sound and putting on y-tube or similar?

[Evo]

So may very well be something to do with the rear diff then........... i guess fluids had been done fairly recently?

Fluids were checked, all nice and free from particles.
Shaft is coming out tomorrow and being checked properly just to be sure.
While shaft is out, going to get rear jacked up and see if there any play on axles, pinion, gearbox output, etc...


Any chance of recording the sound and putting on y-tube or similar?

I would say very good chance, but I'm not sure how to do that sort of thing... :1087:

Cheers,

Evo

[ozzymalone]

Any news on the rig Evo?

[Evo]

Well lucky enough, a very good mate (that I worked with many moons ago) who has been away for a LONG time is back home in Perth now, about 15 mins drive from me. That's who said to bring it round for a look.

He drove, straight away after hearing it, eliminated diff, bearings and clutch.
Took a long time to remove the tailshaft (extremely tight, even rattle gun couldn't budge them) but he somehow managed.
Both uni joints are completely shagged.

BUT

He is going to replace them, and do the shaft flip to allow more clearance over the crossmember, then test drive it.

If the noise is there, he said it might be because of 1 other thing I didn't notice/realise....

The lower trailing arms are longer than standard, and other than being dirty, my mate said they look new...

Went back over my paperwork from when I went back to the suspension place for panhards and steering damper, and they also have put down longer lower trailing arms to clear long range sub tank drain plug and correct pinion angle....

FARK SAKES!!!

He has measured and compared to another GU, and these are (according to net check) 11mm longer, heavier duty, but also are apparently supposed to help with correcting pinion angle after lift...
All a bit confusing.....

Should know more tomorrow as he could only get 1 uni joint today, so I left the Troll with him until tomorrow arvo...

Should know more then...

Suspense is killing me!

Cheers

Evo

[Clunk]

Looking promising mate

[macca]

Maaate I hope you and your mate are on to it

[liftlid]

How much lift does it have? To need longer lower arms? Lower arms are on outside of the frame and would clear tank. You usually only need to replace the upper arm on the tank side with a bent one on a tall lift.
Good to see you found a problem though

[Stropp]

Evo thats great news mate, thanks to your mate who is helping out.

[jack]

Good to hear Evo, must be a relief

[Evo]

How much lift does it have? To need longer lower arms? Lower arms are on outside of the frame and would clear tank. You usually only need to replace the upper arm on the tank side with a bent one on a tall lift.
Good to see you found a problem though

It has 3" constant load which ends up measuring about 4" over standard (even with accessories).
I have a bent upper arm to clear the tank on full droop, but the drain plug on the tank is on the back and is in line with a sway bar mount, so with the standard arms, was at risk of fouling.


Good to hear Evo, must be a relief

I'm still not 100% at ease, not until I find out the outcome of today.

Cheers

Evo

[liftlid]

Ok that explains the arms. U joints can make some ugly noises when stuffed, a lot of the people here giving you advice along those lines

[Evo]

Ok that explains the arms. U joints can make some ugly noises when stuffed, a lot of the people here giving you advice along those lines

Yeah, sure were, but with my issues, not being able to do it myself, shows how trusting workshops to diagnose issues sometimes doesn't pay...
But until I hear on the progress today, I'm trying not to get my hopes up too much...

Evo

[macca]

Shafts were taken out at the shop so I don't know about taking for a run, but I understand what you are saying.
Evo

So the shafts were not removed before or the bloke that did remove them was fwit, if that's the case and you paid him go and get your money back

[Evo]

So the shafts were not removed before or the bloke that did remove them was fwit, if that's the case and you paid him go and get your money back

I would agree with fwit.
Was more than one fwit though...
Luckily it didn't cost anything, except the $77 electronic, multi pickup test that diagnosed engine mounts and clutch.
I'll take the $400 for engine mounts on the chin as they were shagged anyway so not really a waste there.

As for the issue, mate has had the Troll in 4H to move it around (as he had taken rear shaft out yesterday to inspect)
So...
Went around this evening to check on progress/collect the troll.
All done, he said take it and see how it goes. He put in new uni joints and put the shaft in backwards (narrow end towards front of car to give more clearance over crossmember)
Smiling like a kid with free run in a lolly shop, jumped in, made sure it was in 2H, and took off down the road.
Seemed fine, until about 80ish kph... Slight rumble...
Hmmm....
Got home, had a look at the front wheels due to gut feeling, manual hubs still locked in.
Turned them to free, went for a drive, so far so good.
Still some noise, there was a little bit of noise after suspension work, but I think that's a combination of mud tyres, lift settling, new uni joints (old mate said they need to settle?), and just the last few weeks of trying to sort this out still pretty fresh in the back of my mind...

Cost under $200, which is so much better than $350-$400 diff inspection, $1200-$1500 diff rebuild, $800 double cardan front shaft, $2500 clutch and flywheel, and a lot off headaches...

Gives me a head start on saving for a future H/D clutch and accompanying bits and pieces.

But anyway, big BIG thanks to everyone who has been following this, and all the input and suggestions in trying to help me out.
Really appreciate it and can definitely say without a doubt, this has to be the best place to be as a Patrol owner, for advice, help, information, and great people.
All things considered, I hope I can be as useful on here as other members, and hope to be around for a while yet.

Cheers

Evo

PS: Just need to start getting out to meet a lot of you guys now...

[ozzymalone]

Awesome news mate! So glad it was a cheap fix for you too. Hope you haven't pulled all your hair out yet....it'll grow back.

[mudnut]

That is great news, Evo. Glad it all has been sorted with out busting the bank.

[Stropp]

thats great news, you have to be carefull with a 4wd as there are plenty of numptys that think they know what they are doing and then you have a mechanic that does know what they are doing and that makes it easy when you find one like that. anyway now thats done and sorted you could try to make the powerlines saturday evening??

[macca]

Good result Evo.

[jack]

Hi Evo, been following this thread with interest, great result I'll bet you're relieved,

[Evo]

thats great news, you have to be carefull with a 4wd as there are plenty of numptys that think they know what they are doing and then you have a mechanic that does know what they are doing and that makes it easy when you find one like that. anyway now thats done and sorted you could try to make the powerlines saturday evening??

Yes indeed. Just wish he was back earlier because he would have been the first port of call...
As for Powerlines, I wish I could but the missus is working back a bit Saturday and I'll have to pick her up when she's done.


Hi Evo, been following this thread with interest, great result I'll bet you're relieved,

It's like a great weight has been lifted.
Feeling pretty good now for the first time in god knows how long....

Evo

[Stropp]

No worries evo, thought it would be a good opportunity to catch up and give the old girl a test out to make sure there are no noises but if she is working it will be quiet won't it lol. Whoops we were talking about the car weren't we?

[Cuppa]

Seems I can stop holding my breath now. PHEW!
Let us know how things are after you've driven it through the settling in period.
I've felt for you throughout this thread, but it has been an informative one for all. Thanks.

Cuppa

[BigRAWesty]

Awesome. Great outcome.

[Evo]

Thanks guys...

B U T

It's back..... :furious:

Not as bad as before, was thinking the slip yoke is extended a bit more than its comfortable with, and was considering a spacer to see if that will make a difference.
Thoughts?

Cheers

Evo

[liftlid]

Take shaft out and go for a drive, you greased the joint I would assume, unless the joint is stuffed 4 inch lift is usually ok on the rear shaft

[Evo]

Take shaft out and go for a drive, you greased the joint I would assume, unless the joint is stuffed 4 inch lift is usually ok on the rear shaft

It's not so much the lift.
I think I mentioned in a previous post, there are longer lower trailing arms installed on it that I had not noticed or wasn't aware of.
According to old mate that did the unis, these arms have pushed the diff back a little further, so I'm thinking the difference between the stock arms and these 11mm longer ones is just enough to cause an issue.
On the shaft you can see where the slip yoke dust/grease boot used to be, and form there to current is about 25mm.
I have gone back over when things were fitted and things done, and there was no noticeable problem until after I got it back with these longer lower arms (best I can work out from all my invoices and memory of dates, etc).
I'm leaning to either slip yoke needs just a little more contact, or these lower arms have thrown the pinion angles out a bit (however I'm told and led to believe these longer lower arms are supposed to assist in correcting pinion angles).
Can anyone confirm this?

Cheers

Evo

[Stropp]

Hi mate I would have thought longer lower arms would mean a bigger angle, longer upper arms will reduce the angle from the diff to drive shaft???

[Parksy]

How does your rear diff pinion angle actually look? If you could visualise the pinion shaft, it should be parallel to gearbox output shaft. When you lift the car they usually point upwards but as you mentioned you've got the longer lower arms. Personally I like the adjustable upper arms as this is an easy way to adjust the pinion angle as opposed to using set length arms.

[Evo]

To me it all looks good how it sits now.

I thought the same thing Stropp, but after some research, apparently they do correct pinion angle.

However, this isn't the main reason the longer lowers were installed. It was to allow more clearance between the rear axle (sway bar bracket) and the drain plug on the long range sub tank.

I have ordered a spacer, supposed to be here between Tuesday and Thursday, then just need to get some longer bolts.

If that doesn't work, out with the spacer and out with the longer arms, standard arms back in and try again...

Evo

[liftlid]

I will be interesting to see if this fixes it as a slip joint issue would normally cause a vibration not a grinding noise.

[Robo]

OK so the problems still there?.

Try looking at diff crown and pinion.

When I got my GTR it had been run low on diff oil.
breather was bad design, oil blew out breather to easily.
any way that had shagged the bearings.
new bearings didn't fix it completely and once bearings settled in it returned some-what, no way as bad but still there.
my description hollow howl guess you could described it as grinding.
unfortunately damage extent was also to the lap on crown and pinion.
only fix was to have crown and pinion relapped and diff reset again.

Ohh and noise increased with speed like you describe.

"separate note".
in the drift world the diff housing angle is changed upwards or down to decrease or increase wheel grip.
my therory,
4" lift will have the similar affect up wards increase in angle, this may put undue strain on diff bearings crown and pinion.
not saying Im correct just a little thing that had crossed my mind as a possibility.
In pic the sub frame is what houses the diff so changing that angle changes the diff angle.
It has something to do with how the diff loads up and then transfers the torque to the ground.
going by pic, diff angle down loads the diff for more traction at the wheels = added strain on differential assembly.
food for thought,hope this helps.

[Robo]

something that I noticed also.
a raised pinion lowers, (tips) the filler plug downwards.
That equalls less oil in diff housing.

[Evo]

Hey guys, bit more of an update, installed the spacer, made sure there is enough play on the splines so that there would be no bottoming out of the slip joint, if anything, the noise/rumble,is less evident, but still there.
Just about had enough of it so at the point where I'm going to just keep driving it until something gives.

Evo

[Evo]

Not sure if anyone is following this anymore, been a while since any new info.
For those that have been or still are keeping an eye on things, issue rectified.

Cheers,

Evo

[threedogs]

that's great can you say one way or another what the actual cause was.

[Robo]

Not sure if anyone is following this anymore, been a while since any new info.
For those that have been or still are keeping an eye on things, issue rectified.

Cheers,

Evo

Nice to hear.
And the fix was????

[Evo]

Lower trailing arms...
Standard ones put back in, smooth sailing...

Evo

[Newman4087]

WoW! So much effort & money spent, for something so simple. I feel your pain mate. Its hard to pinpoint these things sometimes & its just a matter or trial & error i guess. Glad you fixed the problem tho mate.