Injector issue, maybe, I think.

[Ned Fisch]

Hey guys, so I have a little mystery going on with my TD42 GQ silver top. It has 290000 on the clock. I have had a good look through the forum and have found a few pointers to answer a few questions, but I still think I need some more tips and advice, as I'm struggling to pin point my problem and it's not the easiest thing to search right to the point. Really hoping somebody will take the time to help me out, it will be greatly appreciated.

When I got the truck, I knew there was an issue, either with an injector or two, or the fuel pump. I changed out the fuel filter, oil filters, air filter and put in new oil and drained the old fuel and filled it will 20litres of new stuff. The truck was blowing white/grey smoke on idle, once it was warm, it would blow out black under acceleration. When idling it still blew white/grey.

We did some diagnostics and found that injector number one was faulty. I bought 6 new reconditioned injectors. Also, the start/stop solenoid in the fuel pump had an edge missing from the carbon material point. We have assumed that the chipped piece had been sent through the pump, through the lines and caused the faulty injector.
Now, we have fresh injectors, new start/stop solenoid. We have tried our best to flush the pump out, and the fuel lines.

With these new injectors, I still have a mystery problem. At 1st, it was cylinder/injector number one that was faulty, now number 4 is playing up, with the new injectors. When we first installed the injectors, and had flushed the pump, we ran it, took the rig for a short drive and found that it was still only running on 5cylinders.
We cracked the nuts on the lines, to see which ones were working and which weren't. So, that found the issue of number 4. We had a good look, and thought we could see a foreign matter inside the injector. We took that one back out. I took it back to be tested. It was tested in front of me and had a correct, 100% spray pattern. The injector was kept with it's caps on and in a rag to insure there were no possibilities of anything else getting in there. The injector is back in, all the lines are back on, the firing line (1-4-2-6-3-5) are correct, and we're still having the issue with number 4.

I am dreading the worst, a valve problem, but when we first, initially checked the injectors, number 4 had no problems whatsoever. My next thought is, could it be the pump? But the pump must be okay, as we ran the car without the lines attached to the injectors, and they were pumping fuel through with no issues.

One thing we haven't tried again, is changing an injector from 1, 2, 3, 5, or 6 to 4.

Could it be a compression issue? Could it be the valve? Is it the pump? We're running out of ideas and ways to diagnose the issue.

Thank you very much for taking your time to read. Sorry for such a long description, but I think this is as short as I can make it.

[93patrol]

i would do a compression test just as a line of diagnosis shouldnt cost all that much

[Ned Fisch]

Thanks mate. I will give it a go. Still struggling on it.

[Ned Fisch]

So, I am still having issues with the beast.

Is it possible for the Injector Pump to be down on just one cylinder?

[threedogs]

the white/grey smoke is that a sign of water in the system??

[Ned Fisch]

the white/grey smoke is that a sign of water in the system??

We don't believe so, we have bled the lines very well and have put in a new fuel filter. Could that cause the issue though?

[Ned Fisch]

It can't be water, it's definitely fuel that isn't atomising. When we disconnect the 4th injector line, the grey/white smoke is removed. It seems that there isn't enough pressure for the fuel to atomise in the 4th injector/cylinder.

We have done a leak down test, and the 3rd cylinder is worse on pressure than the 4th, but the 4th is the one not atomising.

[Shaunous]

If you haven't already, swap the 4th injector with another one in your engine you know works perfect, that will at least narrow down a few things, but change nothing else, only swap 2 injectors around, say from 3-4..

Cylinder problem
Injector problem
Blocked line
Pump problem

Do this and check results.

Shaun.

[Rickie3]

seals in the injector pump could be an issue, before going to that test, the only thing is to get a compression test done, not firing on 4 could be cracked piston, crook valve,head gasket or cracked head, but get that compression test done first

[Shaunous]

Be simpler and cheaper to swap 2 injectors first and decide wether the problem moves with the 4th injector or stays with the 4th cylinder, if it stays with the cylinder then do a compression test.

[Ned Fisch]

Cheers guys. We have swapped injectors around and it hasn't followed the injector. We have done a leak down test which is suppose to be more accurate than a compression test. The 4th cylinder has tested to be better than some other cylinders..

[Shaunous]

Cheers guys. We have swapped injectors around and it hasn't followed the injector. We have done a leak down test which is suppose to be more accurate than a compression test. The 4th cylinder has tested to be better than some other cylinders..

Yeh, normally you do a standard compression test dry, then a wet one (adding a small amount of oil to seal the ring gaps, but that'll only tell you is you have ring or bore wear), but yeh what you have done is basically the same thing if you got the gear.

If you crack the injector line up at the injector with the engine running, like you were bleeding the system, does the 4th Cyl line seem to spray the same amount of diesel if you were the crack any other cylinder?
How hard is it to remove the line and blow compressed air through it to make sure its 100% cleared, diesel pressure from the pump should clear it, but not if its running/blocked by the top of the injector.

Basically make sure the fuel line to the 4th cylinder isnt blocked or damaged

If the line is OK, your looking at a pump problem.

[Ned Fisch]

Yeh, normally you do a standard compression test dry, then a wet one (adding a small amount of oil to seal the ring gaps, but that'll only tell you is you have ring or bore wear), but yeh what you have done is basically the same thing if you got the gear.

If you crack the injector line up at the injector with the engine running, like you were bleeding the system, does the 4th Cyl line seem to spray the same amount of diesel if you were the crack any other cylinder?
How hard is it to remove the line and blow compressed air through it to make sure its 100% cleared, diesel pressure from the pump should clear it, but not if its running/blocked by the top of the injector.

Basically make sure the fuel line to the 4th cylinder isnt blocked or damaged

If the line is OK, your looking at a pump problem.

Thanks mate, dad has actually done that, didn't realise that and the lines are all clear and are not damaged. It does seem to spray a little less fuel than others it seems..

We have a normal/glow plug compression tester which we will use tonight. Gotta stay hopeful now.

[Shaunous]

You know how to do a correct compression test Yeh?

Wind it over say 3 revolutions, and do that exactly the same for all cylinders, consistency is what your looking for. Don't keep winding until it finally gets up and up in pressure, if it's down compared to the rest, add a few mls of oil and see if the pressure comes up to spec or not. Write everything down everytime u do it, and let us know how u go. U can keep winding and winding the engine over until it, if at all comes up to spec, but it's good to try both short wind and long wind if your not getting a clear result.

I didn't read your original post properly, are u positive the smoke is white/grey? Is there any tinge of blue in there?

[Ned Fisch]

You know how to do a correct compression test Yeh?

Wind it over say 3 revolutions, and do that exactly the same for all cylinders, consistency is what your looking for. Don't keep winding until it finally gets up and up in pressure, if it's down compared to the rest, add a few mls of oil and see if the pressure comes up to spec or not. Write everything down everytime u do it, and let us know how u go. U can keep winding and winding the engine over until it, if at all comes up to spec, but it's good to try both short wind and long wind if your not getting a clear result.

I didn't read your original post properly, are u positive the smoke is white/grey? Is there any tinge of blue in there?

Thanks very much Shaun.
We just completed the test. Cylinders 1, 2, 3, 5, 6 tested from 420-470. Cylinder 4 tested at 210 dry. We tested the 4th a few times wet, starting with a thin oil, than a thicker oil, and the highest it went was 230. We wound it over 3 revolutions for each one.
No mate, it doesn't seem to have any blue tinge to it at all.

Now with that test done, a top end rebuild is in order. Is it possible to buy just a top end rebuild kit?

[Shaunous]

Thanks very much Shaun.
We just completed the test. Cylinders 1, 2, 3, 5, 6 tested from 420-470. Cylinder 4 tested at 210 dry. We tested the 4th a few times wet, starting with a thin oil, than a thicker oil, and the highest it went was 230. We wound it over 3 revolutions for each one.
No mate, it doesn't seem to have any blue tinge to it at all.

Now with that test done, a top end rebuild is in order. Is it possible to buy just a top end rebuild kit?

Glad you have now found a result mate, might not be a good one, but at least you have narrowed it down to something.

Remove the head and inspect first before u go buying anything, may get away with a new valve and grind, or the head or piston may be buggered all together. You Won't know until you remove the head and inspect. Remember don't clean anything when u remove it either, if you yourself is removing it that is. As the engine shop will use stains and markings to determine the problem, if you clean these off it could be impossible to diagnose.

[happygu]

That isn't great news Ned, but as Shaun says, at least you now have a reason.

Definitely pull it apart first before getting any bits - you can organize stuff so you know where you would source the bits, but it could be in the bottom end ( even though they are usually pretty tough, but you may have had a dribbling injector that has hot spotted a piston so it is best to check )

Mic

[Ned Fisch]

Thanks very much guys.
Found that the problem is that a conrod is shorter for some reason, haha.
Rebuild on the way I think.

[Dales300exc]

Hey mate. Didnt realise it was the same person as facebook. I have those rods if your interested.

[Ned Fisch]

Hey mate. Didnt realise it was the same person as facebook. I have those rods if your interested.

Hey mate, cheers for that. You're located in Victoria correct?

[Dales300exc]

I am. But I can post them. I cant imagine it will be expensive.

[Shaunous]

Why the bent conrod Ned?

Any cracks in the head or damage to piston or valves?

[Ned Fisch]

Why the bent conrod Ned?

Any cracks in the head or damage to piston or valves?

Not by the looks of it so far. Gotta sus it all put in the light again tomorrow.40245

[Ned Fisch]

I am. But I can post them. I cant imagine it will be expensive.

Message me on face book please mate, and we'll sus it all out.

[Ned Fisch]

I think we've found the problem.
40288

[Dales300exc]

Why did it bend

[Shaunous]

Why did it bend

My question exactly, how's the piston top look? or is there cracks in the head as I mentioned earlier which would give u a hydraulic lock from coolant.

[Ned Fisch]

Water would have caused the bend. No cracks in the head, and the piston looks pretty good all round. We've discovered it very early I guess.

[Dales300exc]

What im saying is. Water doesn't just run into your cylinders. This fault would have likely happened after a drowning. In which case why chase a fuel problem.

Just re read. Appears you bought it like this. Surely it was vibrating its head off.

[Shaunous]

Unless the head gasket is fuked, should be able to see water marks or trails if this is the case Ned, if you know what your looking for.

Or like Dales said, some weak prick has drowned it, cleaned it up and sold straight to u.