CRD Engine failure

[GeeYouCRD]

Hi, Ive been a member for a few years, and have found a lot of helpful information in that time.
As I havent found many first hand accounts of CRD grenading I thought I would post this.

My 2007 CRD just died, totally melted piston no.4. No holes, no cracks, from the top ring up melted into 50 odd pea size balls and smeared down cylinder walls, damaged head at cyl no.4 (small dents , no visible cracks) and bits of melted piston holding valves open, had no compression in 3 or 4, 3 due to warped head I suspect (no damage to gasket), coolant in oil. I have an egt and boost guage and never normally drive it above 550c, could easily go way higher towing but i back off, was 20 mins from home when happened, towing 1 ton up hill at about 70-80 kmh with overdrive off (automatic), hadnt looked at gauges the 15 mins before so not sure if they showed anything. Happened so quick unless you were looking at the guages constantly you couldnt prevent it. Need audible alarms I think. I hadnt notices any increases or spikes in boost or rising egts or never missed a beat in the 4 years Ive owned it including the last few weeks.
I have an upgraded intercooler and 2.75" exhaust. Very well looked after and serviced every 5000Km. Fitted oil catch can and Fuel manager pre filter fitted at 120,000Kms, no egr block or dawes valve.
After dismantling, found intake manifold, throttle body and EGR gummed up with black gunk (exhaust gas mixed with PCV) , injectors covered in it too (hard to imagine they could have been workin properly) Sump, exhaust manifold contains melted piston.
Also found 2 oil pump retaining bolts missing and 3 more on last thread about to fall out, found one crushed up and 2 gears in the timing case damaged as a result. This is something you could not check without stripping the engine.
Apart from all this the engine seems in great shape, clean as new inside and no corrosion.
Have taken lots of pictures and will post up when I've finishing cleaning up and inspecting everything in the next few days.
Regards, Jayson

[Clunk]

Mate, that just plain sucks. that's the first time I've herd of a CRD going bang. Really sorry to read that mate........... So what's your plan for this?

[Sir Roofy]

Sorry to hear that mate,seems that the egr is the main cause
when i did my nads on our 02 3l it was full of black grease like
crap reckon if ihad,nt done it when idid think it might have died
long ago
in saying that theres still no gaurentee that it wont happen

[GeeYouCRD]

Whatever the cause, I think it was not far off oil pump failure with a simular result. Still cant discount that the oil pump was sucking air and caused it.
Have to cost it all up and see whether its worth fixing my motor or look for a low km engine. Maybe an engine conversion.

[GeeYouCRD]

Should have added its done 180,000km

[Hodge]

When I was at wreckers few months ago he had 3 of the CRD's with EXACT consequences as yours mate. 2 of them had bit's out of cyl 3 completely blown out, and the other Cyl 4. Everything was just covered in thick goopy black s**t. What was more scary is one of them according to the tag on it, only done 70k. Made me feel really comforted jumping in my CRD to drive back home. :animierte-smilies-f

[Figjam]

Hi Jayson
Sorry to here of your engine failure.
At the risk of this sounding bad............I have just pulled a CRD and manual box out of my ute for an engine conversion. The vehicle has only done 30,600km.
PM if you like. I am in Perth.

[happygu]

GeeYouCRD,

It definitely sounds like the Oil Pump wasn't circulating enough oil around due to the loose bolts ..... Pistons don't usually melt like that when there is enough oil to cool them down......

This does mirror a couple of other cases that I have heard of with the same 'Oil Pump' Bolts loose or missing ..... that really sucks, as it has lasted this long, but I would hope that Nissan would come to the party in a case like this, as there seemingly was a batch where this occurred early on. They should be able to check Vin Numbers and see if they are in the same era.

They must have changed the way they tighten or retain these bolts, as it was only the early ones that I know of....

Mic

[happygu]

Should have added its done 180,000km

Didn't see this .... Nissan may wash their hands at this many K's....

[GeeYouCRD]

Yeah at nearly 7 years old now, I think id have buckleys chance of any help from Nissan, however im still going to email them pictures of the pump and damage.
.

[Maxhead]

Sorry to hear mate, I've heard of a few cases where the oil pump bolts coming loose and falling out causing damage. I wonder if they haven't been torqued correctly in the factory. It might pay to talk to Nissan but I don't like your chances.

Big V8 diesel going in???? LOL

[bignev]

I too have a 2007 crd, so I was wondering if it is a easy job to check the oil pump

[threedogs]

Don't like your chances with MR Nissan, but I would present your case
to them with the words consumer affairs in there somewhere

[Hodge]

Don't like your chances with MR Nissan, but I would present your case
to them with the words consumer affairs in there somewhere

Believe it or not, sometimes it does work TD. Thai built D22's have body mounts notoriously fail. Navara forum is packed with threads about it. I printed off several pages and complaints, and sent it to Nissan as well as CAA because they refused a warranty job on it. Car was 12 months old. Their reason was, a/ car has a canopy, b/ car has upgraded suspension c/ car has a bullbar and winch causing extra weight and strain. Few phone call and letter exchanges my Navara had all body mounts replaced.

Anyways sorry for straying off topic. Just trying to say, never say never. Give it a shot. Hit them up.

[GeeYouCRD]

bignev, no it wouldnt be an easy job to check them, their on the rear of the aluminium timing cover, between it and the front of the block. Would be near on impossible in the car, I had enough trouble getting the cover off out of the car with the head and sump off, which it is bolted too.

[Stropp]

bugger mate, as you said tho give nissan a crack, i had them change the dash in my patrol at 8 yrs old and they first refused but after several letters and phone calls they did change it, not a motor i know but worth a crack anyway and dont let their first refusal be the end of it, get and engineer to write a report on the oil pump bolts etc for ammo.

[threedogs]

They all deny it Toyota said there was no problem with the 100s front wheels snapping off.
They also said the latest hilux tubs do not crack either, even the mighty Toyota 3 litre diesel is blowing up on the hilux
but nothing is wrong.
Seemss like this will be an easy fix with some members do engine up grades

[Beni C]

That sux GeeYou, time to hit the boys up at Brunswick and chuck a monster in there?

Hope I dont get the same issue with my 08 CRD, very first mods I have done was EGR block and the catch can, sounds like this was an oil pump issue though.

Would be handy to have oil pressure guage perhaps? Was she running a bit louder than usual?

[boots]

Not good news. Out of curiosity what type / brand of catch can was fitted

[Parksy]

Nothing good about EGR when it comes to engine performance and life. If you do get a replacement 3l, block that first and give the intake a good clean with the intake foam cleaner from Subaru.

[GeeYouCRD]

Provent oil seperator boots.

After days of cleaning and inspecting, its looking like the oil pump lost some pressure, of the 11 screws and two bolts fixing it, 2 where missing another 3 hanging on by a couple of threads , another 4 where down but loose and only the 2 bolts and 2 screws, all in a row at the bottom of the pump were tight. The top of the pump had come away and I could slide a feeler guage under it, so not sealing. I think it was still pumping but had lost some pressure. Oil was probably still getting around the engine and up to the head and gravity doing its work from there. However at the bottom of the block, beneath each piston is an upward pointing piston oiler tube. Oil should shoot up out of these under pressure and lubricate the piston and rings. The pistons have oil gallerys in them that go up to the rings to keep then oiled.
Piston 3 had rings jammed in piston (why I had next to no compression in 3), and wear on the sides below the rings and piston material on the cylinder walls. Piston 4 (the one that is stuffed) has a a lot more wear on the sides and piston material smeared down cylinder walls, much more than 3. I initialy thought the bores were scored but it looks like it just a layer of melted piston.
The piston oilers for 3 and 4 are at the end of the oil line. Pressure could have dropped enough so that oil from the piston oilers on 3 & 4 wasnt reaching the pistons.
The rest of the engine looks well lubricated. Bearings and head dont look like they've been running dry.
The alluminium from piston 4 that melted and disintegrated then found its why into everything, the ports on the head (Cyl 4) and the exhaust manifold look like they have been sprayed on the inside with a layer of liquid aluminium. This has then gone from the exhaust manifold into the turbo and its inlet is full of it and siezed.
Ground up piston in sump and throughout engine, however because its soft it doest look to have done any damage to crank or cams etc.
The 2 missing screws were found in the bottom of the motor mashed up and these have damaged one of the camshaft drive gears and the idler gear that links the 2 camshafts.
No obvious sign of how coolant got into oil, either heat warped the head or in internal crack I cant see. Have checked head for flatness and is within tolerance, no damage to head gasket.
Read nissan manual up on the oil pressue light and this only comes on when pressure is near zero.
The point where the pump lost just enough pressure not to lubricate the back two pistons would happen very quicky, its not that they would be getting oil gradualy less and less. One second they are getting oil the next there not, and with the pistons doing 2000 odd rpm things go downhill quick.
From what Ive read, loose oil pumps bolts is a problem on the first CRDs and some failed early and got new engine under warranty.
Should have been a recall for this! But can you imagine them recalling every patrol for an engine out and stripdown to check and torque down properly.
Out of interest no sign of loctite on bolts.

[GeeYouCRD]

Parksy, Ive spent about 2 days on cleaning that crud out the intake and the head, carby cleaner seems to work the best.
No way that cruds going back into a new or rebuilt motor.

[Beni C]

Thats a bummer GeeYou, have you approched Nissan about it?
Did a quick search and have only found a few examples where this has happened, hope its not to wide spread as I have a 2008 with just over 100000k on it! Would have for it to give up teh ghost so soon!!

[GeeYouCRD]

No havn't approached Nissan yet but I will be as soon as everything has been inspected so I can present them with the total damage.

[threedogs]

no good out of the frying pan into the fire.
not good at all I hope Nissan recognise there is a problem
and come to the party and fix it. Hope all goes well
This will be interesting, remember as per Goats thread,
keep all paper work dates time everything

[megatexture]

I feel for you mate but wouldn't hold your breath , if what you were asking Nissan for was a cheaper issue they might consider it but if they fix this out of warranty they will be opening themselves up for world of hurt.
I'm just going on my experiences with car manufacturers and there cunningness to try to get out of every warranty issue I've had and this ones not in the warranty time. But best of luck!

[GeeYouCRD]

No, Im by no means holding my breath, but well worth a try.

[threedogs]

Are you going to confront the dealer first or straight to head office??
try to keep your cool and mention you brought the Patrol because in your opinion its the best 4x4 by none
keep stating how disappointing a huge company like Nissan cet a thing like this through quality control.
As with Goat get anything in writing with dates and times, Consumer affairs is not out of the question.
Present your case being as professional as you can be, heaps of photos, plus hard evidence, Good luck
No is not an answer its a diversion. Keep at them

[Dave_H]

Sorry to hear about the motor mate, this is the first i've heard of a crd dying. Hoping mine lives a long life but will definitley be adding a few things to it now so it can be monitored.

[GeeYouCRD]

Here are some pics of the damage40281402824028340284

[threedogs]

wow that's terrible , and all from a loose oil pump you say???

[Drew]

Wow that sucks

[GeeYouCRD]

Head and block going into machine shop on Monday, if the head passes crack and hardness test and block crack test, looks like I can I can rebuild it for around $2500-$2800. Had injectors tested and they are good. Not having to spend $2000 on new injectors makes it best value to rebuild at this stage.

[threedogs]

is there anything that can be done whilst its apart to improve it in any shape
or form ,bigger oil galleries and such

[megatexture]

Wonder if that would have showed up on a oil pressure gauge,though it would have dropped slowly it would be hard to notice. Maybe nissan need to invest in some locktite for the pump bolts...

[happygu]

That is really nasty damage ..... hope the head comes up ok

Mic

[GeeYouCRD]

Not sure 3 dogs, apart from the damage caused by the oil pump issue, the engine at 180,000kms was in great shape with almost no wear, in fact it looked like a brand new clean engine, except for the intake manifold, throttle body, egr cooler and egr valve caked in black oily soot all due to EGR and PCV. I hadnt blocked EGR and Provent oil catch can went on at approx 120,000km, vehicle had 110,000km when I bought it. I always thought the 3.0 lt was a small engine, but when you pull it out and strip it down it is actually a big, solidly built engine. Im pretty confident that if the oil pump screws hadnt come out, the intake was cleaned say every 50,000km (or EGR blocked correctly) , serviced regularly that this engine would do 350,000km plus easy. I will definately be fitting an oil pressure guage and low coolant alarm, when something happens quickly you really need audible alarms. I have EGT and boost guage and although I feel Im constantly watching them, I hadnt looked at them just before it happened so I dont know what they showed.

[threedogs]

Next mod I'm doing is an oil gauge, plus set some alarms on my newly purchased ECUtalk gauge
surely you can fit a bigger/better oil pump in, or tweak that one some how
just throwing ideas out there, I don't know, are there go fast goodies for the ZD30

[GeeYouCRD]

Oil pump is part of the timing cover so could not be upgraded.

[GeeYouCRD]

Good news today, the head and block tested up OK. So on with the rebuild

[jack]

That is good news

[mudski]

Total rebuild or is it a partial build? I.e just the affected bores...

[happygu]

Good news today, the head and block tested up OK. So on with the rebuild


Wow, that is amazing .... I would have sworn that head was a throw away...... maybe the CRD head will turn out to be a little more robust than the Di head for heat issues and cracking ....

Mic

[GeeYouCRD]

Full Head service and rebore & hone of all cylinders, crank polish, full engine rebuild kit ie. new pistons, rings, gudgeons, bearings and gaskets. Should be good as new.
Not too bad for around $2500 (plus my time). Got it back on friday, looks good, will start to reassemble motor this week.

[jack]

That's good to hear, and the price seems reasonable as well. Now you'll know that you have a good engine, a good outcome that could have been much worse.

[GeeYouCRD]

Yeah Im pretty happy.Considering I bought it at a really good price, and in 3 years and 70,000km apart from materials for regular servicing have had to spent allmost nothing on it. (apart from all the accesories and goodies). Being able to do the work yourself sure does save $$$ on these vehicles. Like you say Ill know I have good engine now (and a nice clean intake manifold). Not owning since new your never sure what shape its in. But also have a fair bit more faith in the 3.0lt common rail now as apart from the loose oil pump bolts and damage from them (which should not happen again) the engine was like new at 180,000kms. Also now that there are 4 years worth of common rails out of warranty, aftermarket parts are becoming more available and cheaper.

[BillsGU]

Just a question. Are the oil pump bolts held in by LocTite or locking tabs or are they just set to a certain tension?

[bear3103]

How much work is involved in getting the timing cover off while still on car to get to the oil pump bolts.

[GeeYouCRD]

Nah, there is no loctite or locking tabs, there are eleven short 5mm countersunk phillips head bolts and two long 5mm hex head bolts. I will be using medium strength loctite on them. I really think they just were not all torqued correctly as the 2 hex bolts were tight and 2 of the phillips head bolts I had to use an impact driver on. Ive done a quite a few kms on corragated roads including the gibb river road and think this may have exaggerated the problem. If it spent its whole life on the blacktop maybe might never happen, but thats not what these vehicles are for. You need to take the timing case, not just the timing cover, off to get to them off to get to them. And the timing case is silconed and bolted to the block, head and sump, I think it could possibly be done in the car, but extremly difficult. They could probably be inspected (but not tightened) with just the timing cover off with an inspection camera or maybe a small telescopic mirror. Or even if you just pulled out the cranshaft pulley and inspected through there with mirror or camera might be the easiest way to at least check them.

[GeeYouCRD]

Just to add, In all my research this only seems to have occurred on 2007 and 2008 (common rail) engines. And can only find first hand accounts of it happenning on 2007 models.

[Hodge]

Just to add, In all my research this only seems to have occurred on 2007 and 2008 (common rail) engines. And can only find first hand accounts of it happenning on 2007 models.

Phew so my trol just scraped in then... LOL.
Been following your thread mate and good news that you're on your comeback trail with the engines.

[GeeYouCRD]

Just a quick update, engine is all back together and should be back in the car in the next couple of days.

[Beni C]

Mines an 08!!!

If it happens to mine, I'll be paying you a visit I think GeeYou!!!

[Dave_H]

Mines an 08 aswell.

I have been praying every night before bed to the patrol god that he wont sacrifice mine and so far he has been kind to me.

[GeeYouCRD]

Got the engine started this arvo, sounds good, oil pressure good at idle, haven't driven yet, just need to replace fuel hoses tomorrow as they have small cracks in them and I'm losing fuel pressure and have to prime the pump to start if left for a bit. If that's all it is then bonnet back on and back on the road!

[threedogs]

interesting your fuel lines are cracked, sounds like something to change for all of us.
Thanks for sharing and yoo hoo back on the road again,

[threedogs]

Wonder if that would have showed up on a oil pressure gauge,though it would have dropped slowly it would be hard to notice. Maybe nissan need to invest in some locktite for the pump bolts...
would an irregular movement on the oil gauge translate into pulling your motor apart.?