Here we go again!!!!

[Spoons]

http://takeaction.4wdaction.com.au/?q=node/2

I thought this issue was dead and buried long ago. Maybe not.

[Chops]

Been covered twice before.


http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?2224-Bull-Bars-at-risk
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?2532-Bull-Bars-Under-Threat

[patch697]

^^^^^^ But still thanks all the same Spoons for the thought & the link.

This issue can never have to much coverage.

[89GQ]

what about all the gov. cars and 4by's with them on?????????

[patch697]

what about all the gov. cars and 4by's with them on?????????

Bloody good point, theirs not a DSE 4x4 or Ute out my way without one.

[Woof]

http://takeaction.4wdaction.com.au/?q=node/2

I thought this issue was dead and buried long ago. Maybe not.

Thanks Spoons, this is a different one to the other ones we already have mate, same topic but a another way to get our voice heard, well done.
I would encourage everyone to submit this, just click on the link that Spoons supplied.

[patch697]

Thanks Spoons, this is a different one to the other ones we already have mate, same topic but a another way to get our voice heard, well done.
I would encourage everyone to submit this, just click on the link that Spoons supplied.

Already have Doggy & I hope many others do as well.

[Finly Owner]

Signed, thanks spoons

[DX grunt]

Done.

Ross

[Dhuck]

That's me and the missus done

[Maxhead]

All done mate

[Spoons]

Uhhm, how many of you travel every day, every kilometer, on country roads? Not many I'm thinking, judging by some of the comments. I do.

"I/we dont travel at night". What about the many hundreds of thousands (if not more) who have to travel at the peak threat times just to get to work. I do. I have seen all manner of animals and birds in my daily travel to and from work or to my regional cities that have been hit by a vehicle. Eagles (ever seen a wedge tail up close?), other birds, roos, pigs, cows, foxs, wombats, dingoes, camels are just some of the obstacles those of us who live in these areas deal with nearly every day.

Would my vehicle be driveable after some of these incidents without a bullbar? Most yes with no damage, some maybe not, others not a chance.

"Bullbars that impair the operation of other safety devices ie; air bags". Vehicles fitted with airbags must be fitted with air bag compliant bullbars. I would certainly trust manufacturers engineering specifications over heresay any day.

Will pedestrians be any less dead if hit by a car without a bullbar? Dead is dead. Badly injured is still badly injured. A tonne or more of vehicle hitting a person at more than walking pace is almost guaranteed to cause serious injuries. Will being hit by a vehicle fitted with a bullbar exacerbate those injuries, maybe, maybe not, but I doubt it.

Should we remove windscreens because unrestrained occupants have a habit of diving through them in an accident? Should we ban seat belts because some people suffer serious internal injuries during a collission? Should we reduce the speed limits to nothing more than a pace that will not seriously injure anyone should an accident occur?

Have a serious unbiased think about the purpose of a bullbar. It is to reduce or negate the damage that may be caused by hitting something or something hitting you. Will it save you and/or your vehicle every time? Never but it is better than nothing. Is it a fashion statement? On some vehicles it is but thats not the vehicles fault.

I would much prefer being in a two and a half tonne 4WD with a bullbar if I am going to have an accident of any sort.Mark and Kerrie
We want to get out and about before we get much more older and decrepiter, hehehe.kezmark

kezmark wrote:
Will pedestrians be any less dead if hit by a car without a bullbar?

Yes, as a matter of fact they will. Very much so. The research shows this. This is why the government is looking at bullbars.

Look at the design of cars nowadays. Car bonnets are specifically designed to deflect a pedestrian (and motorcyclists and wildlife for that matter) upwards and over the vehicle, whereas a pedestrian hit by a bullbar is first crushed against the bullbar, then thrown beck on the ground in front of the striking car to be run over and likely dragged under the vehicle.

I've seen a shcoolkid hit by a car whilst I was sitting in traffic a few years back (I was first on the scene) The child did exactly as described above; bounced onto the bonnet, into the windscreen, then landed beside the vehicle. The child had a fractured skill collapsed lung, and broken limbs. However he lived and made a full recovery. Had the car had a bullbar I bery much doubt I would have resuscitated him...

Pedestrians are safer without bullbars, and as 80-90% of road fatalities involve pedestrians bullbars need to be looked at in this context. If you going outback, fit the bullbar for the trip then remove it when you return. Difficult? maybe. Impossible? Not at all. Safer? definitely!

A comment I made on another forum and the reply I got. It is this type of unmitigated bullshit that causes us the problem in the first place. Uninformed, opinionated, bigotted crap. I asked for sources on the figures quoted. Bet I dont get a reply.

[Spoons]

Thanks for the thanks everyone. I just thought it was worth pushing the point. Every poll I could find has been answered as well as emails to Anthony Albanese and my local member.

These bloody morons get a bee in their tiny bonnet over one instance and extrapolate that one instance into a national disaster. AAARGGGH!!!!!!!!

[Clunk]

done done and done also

[Sir Roofy]

:thumbup:DONE X 2

[XLR8]

This issue has been ongoing since 2000 and has since been warped and twisted by political agendas, misinformation and over-passionte crusaders. Here is some information and links for those outside of the industry to fasmiiarise themselves with as much of the relevant material as I can find.

Bull Bars and Road Trauma Report, 2000 http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/safety/publications/2000/pdf/BullBar_1.pdf

Summary of AS4876.1 2002, written using information/input from industry groups and results from above report (full version available for purchase SAI Global) - https://www.racv.com.au/wps/wcm/connect/Internet/Primary/my+car/car+safety/safety+equipment/bull+bars/summary+of+the+australian+standard+for+bull+bars

Current Bull Bar design guidelines in Western Australia (presumably the same as other states as based on AS4876.1 2002 - http://www.transport.wa.gov.au/mediaFiles/LBU_VS_CI_112.pdf

Study by Adelaide University in 2005 in to VFPS - http://casr.adelaide.edu.au/casrpubfile/157/CASR037.pdf

Excert from Australian Vehicle Standards Rules Ammendment Package 2008 Draft -
Bull bars: currently the Rules require an object fitted to a vehicle to be designed,
built and fitted to the vehicle in a way that minimises the likelihood of injury to a
person who makes contact with the vehicle. The provision calls for a subjective test
which is an unnecessary complication as there is a current Australian Standard
addressing the fitment of bull bars (and other protrusions). The proposal will require
bull bars to be fitted in accordance with the relevant Australian Standard, providing
clarity to the industry, vehicle owners and enforcement officers. It is believed that
there already is a high level of compliance with the Australian Standard from within
industry and therefore, the proposal is expected to have only a minor impact on the
industry. Full Version - http://www.ntc.gov.au/filemedia/Reports/AVSRAmendmntPackageDraftRISAug08.pdf)

Summary of actual Proposal circa 2009 (actual publication date unknown) - http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/motor/design/files/Pedestrian_Safety_Requirement_Summary.pdf

Other related documents including Regulation Impact Statement - http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/motor/design/adr_comment.aspx

AAAA Position Paper, submitted June 2009 - http://www.aaaa.com.au/files/issues/PositionPaperBullbars.pdf


Extract from AAAA News In simple terms, if the regulation were adopted in full, there would be a requirement for every new vehicle sold in Australia to meet stringent pedestrian safety criteria, which would be administered via the Australian Design Rule (ADR) process. Full report - http://www.aaaa.com.au/news.asp?id=81

I am not condoning or condemning the regulations, only providing as much information as I can so you can be well informed. The biggest impact of the regulation will be on Bull Bar manufacturers and only in the cost aspect of R & D of new products that will comply to the new regulations. Th Proosal clearly states that the current AS4876.1 2002 will continue to apply for any MC (4WD or SUV) catgory vehicle.

As with the introduction ofAS4876.1 2002, there appears to be no intention to apply the regulations to vehicles/VFPS manufactured prior to the legislation date.

Happy reading,
Mike

[XLR8]

kezmark wrote:
Will pedestrians be any less dead if hit by a car without a bullbar?


Yes, as a matter of fact they will. Very much so. The research shows this. This is why the government is looking at bullbars.


Pedestrians are safer without bullbars, and as 80-90% of road fatalities involve pedestrians bullbars need to be looked at in this context.

Uninformed, opinionated, bigotted crap. I asked for sources on the figures quoted. Bet I dont get a reply.

Between 1990 and 2000 pedestrian contributed to 18% of the road toll and had dropped to 14% for the period 2000 to 2010. Of these only 5% involved 4WD vehicles fitted with Bull Bars