REDARC BMS Install into GU

[FNQGU]

I thought I would share my latest experience in the 12V world with you all after being gifted a Redarc BMS from Santa for the GU. To set the scene on this, I am no expert at all on 12V, and this is still an ongoing learning curve. I am however really enjoying getting into the details of this system and I think it is changing the way I looked at my energy requirements when camping and touring. So with that in mind, I thought I’d share my setup and reasoning for going down this path and perhaps generate some interesting feedback from others who have either done something similar, or better, or are considering it themselves. That said, I am not really interested in the value for money debate - each to his own. For me, there is value in the outlay for a BMS. Others may not think so. Overall, I am very happy with the features of the Redarc BMS and as I am planning the addition of a camper trailer and some more remote touring, I think things will work out well.

Before I get into the details, I would like to acknowledge the help and efforts from Cuppa to make this work. Cuppa went to what I can only say were extraordinary lengths to help me understand and make the correct choices, and also put me onto the excellent reference books by Collyn Rivers on Solar and Camper Trailers. Cheers Cuppa, many thanks!

Right, so my vehicle is a 99 Patrol wagon with a 6.5TD Chev conversion in it. Being a side mounted turbo, this means that there is no room in the engine bay for the aux battery, and will explain why I eventually chose to locate the BMS where I did. I plan to have the vehicle for quite a while and the general theme with my modifications has been to keep it simple enough that I can understand and hopefully fix it myself if anything goes wrong. I also had the assistance of a skilled auto electrician for some of the install, which made my life easy, but in seeing how he did it, also proved that this can be done and done well by anyone with a will to give it a try. Yendor and others, please chime in if you see an area for improvement or weak points of course.

The vehicle is set up for touring more or less, with camping for a week or so at a single location being the norm. In my mind, less is more when it comes to camping and our kit is pretty simple. Swags generally and a tarp over a rope, a few 12V LED lights, the fridge and the tinnie (or some kayaks) and fishing gear. I also have a 1Kva Honda generator for Plan B, and am planning to add solar very shortly to complete the setup.

The BMS itself was bought off eBay, and saved me a swag of coin from the recommended retail. The wiring, cable glands, split tube and Anderson Plugs were also all eBay. The setup was all according to the Redarc recommendations and when I wanted to change things they were very helpful in telling me what would work and what wouldn’t, after I managed to speak to the right person that is.

I decided on the Redarc BMS because it combined a few things into one and had an excellent head unit to tell me what was going on. In the past I had run the fridge off the generator when camped up for a while, but this was rather inconvenient really, and burned a lot of fuel, hardly economical. It also meant that I had to cart a jerry can or two of unleaded, so hopefully I can now take much less, or none at all. The BMS has a 240V input plug so now if I run the generator, it will only be to charge the Aux battery, which so far seems to take about 2 hours or less if the battery is down to around the 70% mark.

My Aux battery is a 105Ahr AGM. With the lack of room in the engine bay, and my Aux battery mounted beneath the vehicle, it meant that I had to efficiently use what I had. I figured it was too much pain to try and fit a third battery. So, nothing huge in terms of capacity, but it should be enough for what I need if I manage it well.

At the end of the day, I decided to fit the BMS main unit beneath the middle seats, directly above the Aux battery. To put it here meant it was out of the way, but I had concerns about heat buildup when it was charging. Redarc however assured me that although it would get warm, as long as it had a 10cm gap above it, that it would be fine.

This is where I fitted it up.
http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/ad197/BenKDJ/BMSBehindSeat1_zpsd41935af.jpg (http://s935.photobucket.com/user/BenKDJ/media/BMSBehindSeat1_zpsd41935af.jpg.html)
http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/ad197/BenKDJ/BMSlocation_zps293b164f.jpg (http://s935.photobucket.com/user/BenKDJ/media/BMSlocation_zps293b164f.jpg.html)

I ran a 6B&S cable from the +tive on my Crank Battery direct to the BMS unit. This cable runs through the firewall on the drivers side and then in the footwell channel to the back seat area of the vehicle where the BMS is mounted.
http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/ad197/BenKDJ/BMSCrankBatteryampSolarInput_zpse66bff39.jpg (http://s935.photobucket.com/user/BenKDJ/media/BMSCrankBatteryampSolarInput_zpse66bff39.jpg.html)

The fuse is a 30A Maxi fuse. In the background you can see the Anderson Plug for solar input.

http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/ad197/BenKDJ/BMScabling_zpsbc313604.jpg (http://s935.photobucket.com/user/BenKDJ/media/BMScabling_zpsbc313604.jpg.html)

6B&S from the battery heading to the BMS as well as an 8B&S cable from the solar input, plus the white cable is coming from the BMS back to the head unit in the cab.

More to follow...

[FNQGU]

Sorry about the blurry photo… bloody camera phones, and dodgy operator.

[threedogs]

Looks good I'd be flicking those wing nuts in favour of some Nyloc nuts , They will fail
As for the Anderson plug you could do as a few here have and fit it on the bull bar save lifting the bonnet, plus an extra 12v outlet if needed

[FNQGU]

Yep, good points, thanks. I haven't exactly finalised where to mount that Solar input Anderson Plug. Am currently half thinking about hard mounting a panel on the roof rack, and running the cable down the snorkel into the engine bay. More thought needed on that one yet.

[FNQGU]

So this is the back of the BMS unit itself with all the wires attached.

http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/ad197/BenKDJ/BMSWiring_zps73fda85c.jpg (http://s935.photobucket.com/user/BenKDJ/media/BMSWiring_zps73fda85c.jpg.html)

And cabling from the BMS to the Aux Battery via a hole in the floor where a cable gland was used.

http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/ad197/BenKDJ/BMSCableGland1_zps50aa4393.jpg (http://s935.photobucket.com/user/BenKDJ/media/BMSCableGland1_zps50aa4393.jpg.html)

Underneath the floor - cable gland exiting…

http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/ad197/BenKDJ/BMSCableGland2_zpsd7dd339c.jpg (http://s935.photobucket.com/user/BenKDJ/media/BMSCableGland2_zpsd7dd339c.jpg.html)

[FNQGU]

So, my auto sparky mate did the wiring from the BMS to the Shunt, and Aux Battery and did a nice neat job of it for me too. I was very happy with that. The shunt came with the BMS kit from Redarc and is what allows the unit to measure the load on the battery. All earths from any loads on the battery come in to the shunt.

The new clean split tubing is what is coming in from the BMS. The older one there runs off to my Fridge in the cargo compartment.

http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/ad197/BenKDJ/BMSShuntampAuxBattery2_zps55f17b77.jpg (http://s935.photobucket.com/user/BenKDJ/media/BMSShuntampAuxBattery2_zps55f17b77.jpg.html)

'We' (haha) mounted the shunt up under the vehicle next to the Aux battery. No dramas if it gets submerged or covered in mud etc. The only risk is the wires get damaged, and since I am not into anything extreme, I hope to avoid that.

It is hard to get a good picture up under here, but here is another that might help. Aux Battery in the background. I'll drop the battery down tomorrow so the picture is a bit clearer as to what is going on.

http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/ad197/BenKDJ/BMSShuntampAuxBattery_zpse9711ed9.jpg (http://s935.photobucket.com/user/BenKDJ/media/BMSShuntampAuxBattery_zpse9711ed9.jpg.html)

The fridge -tive now is connected to the shunt. The flat light coloured cable is connected to sensors that measure the temperature of the battery itself, which should be clearer when I take a better picture with the battery down.

The battery clamp is just a bit of flat steel bar I had. I think it is 25 x 3mm. The battery box is packed with some rubber around the battery so there is no movement at all.

To the right of the pictures is the exhaust and I do wonder if the proximity will be an issue, but I hope that normal airflow will prevent any unwanted heat. Surely it would be cooler there than in the engine bay anyway.

[FNQGU]

Everything to this point is wired according to the Redarc suggested wiring diagrams (as per their website), however prior to installing this unit, I was using a standard Redarc SBI12 smart start battery isolator, the same as many others do. When I installed the BMS, I found that there was no longer a need for a separate isolator as the BMS now handled that job. The downside to that was that there was no provision to have a push-button switch in the cab to parallel the batteries for jump starting.

As a side note, I had also recently experienced several flat crank battery scenarios as I am away with work for periods of a month at a time. The load on my crank battery from the vehicle immobiliser and the stereo, were enough to flatten the previous crank battery by the time I got home. So after much mucking around, I replaced my previous crank battery (an Optima Red Top), with what was my Aux battery, an Optima Blue Top with 66Ahr capacity, and bought my now current 105Ahr Full River Aux Battery. The very minor load on the crank battery from the immobiliser and the stereo was .1 something volts. Bugger all if you are using the vehicle all the time, but a drama if you are away for a month.

So, in order to be able to parallel the Aux battery and the Crank battery, and after much discussion with Cuppa, and then Redarc, it was decided that the best way was to simply cut off the micro-chip attached to the SBI12 (which previously made it 'smart') and replace the spring loaded switch in the cab with a manual switch. This makes the SBI12 into a 'dumb' relay, aka manual isolator.

http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/ad197/BenKDJ/BMSManualRelay_zpsef86cae6.jpg (http://s935.photobucket.com/user/BenKDJ/media/BMSManualRelay_zpsef86cae6.jpg.html)

So, what are we looking at in this messy jumble of wires?
a) the big thick positive coming in from the left is the original from the crank battery to the isolator.
b) the 6B&S running out to the right from the same top connection now goes to the rear of the vehicle (via a 50A Maxi fuse) for a future trailer power supply via another Anderson Plug. This is effectively just a straight connection to the crank battery. I ran that cable out through a grommet into the passengers side wheel well, and then into the chassis all the way to the rear (pic tomorrow).
c) the red wire from the bottom connection (with the blue connector) that loops to the fuse at the top of the picture goes to the manual switch in the cab to activate the relay and parallel the batteries.
d) the big thick positive heading directly South from the bottom terminal was the original cable to the Aux battery and it remains in place to complete the circuit when needed.
e) the red wire with the blue connector that goes out to the right from the bottom terminal powers my UHF.

[Cuppa]

I dunno what happened. I wrote a reply post yesterday & it’s not here. Must’ve done something silly???
Anyway, lookin’ good, but I am concerned about the proximity of the exhaust to that battery. If it’s at all possible I think it would be wise to move the battery, even a few centimetres might help. AND make a heat shield of some sort. It will get pretty darn hot there & I don’t think relyng on available airflow will be sufficient. Imagine sitting at some lights or in slow moving traffic.

Cuppa

[FNQGU]

Yeah, thanks, I have been thinking the same thing and keeping an eye on the temps. The battery has gotten up to around 39 degrees whilst charging and sitting at the lights. It will be a major pain to move the battery so am looking at my options for some heat shielding. Maybe on both the battery and some wraps around the exhaust as well?

[Cuppa]

Yeah, thanks, I have been thinking the same thing and keeping an eye on the temps. The battery has gotten up to around 39 degrees whilst charging and sitting at the lights. It will be a major pain to move the battery so am looking at my options for some heat shielding. Maybe on both the battery and some wraps around the exhaust as well?

Yeah, whatever you can manage I reckon. Those temps aren’t going to be good, & of concern is the possibility that the battery will heat up unevenly, with the side nearest to the exhaust getting significantly hotter, particularly during short drives. Wrapping the exhaust may help, & heat shield design will need some thought to avoid trapping heat around the battery/allowing what air flow is available. Hopefully such measures may do the trick, but I still reckon you may end up having to bite the bullet & move the battery. If I were in your current position I’d probably go down the shielding path, (although to make this effective may end up being more work than moving the battery) but if the battery doesn’t last would definitely look at relocating it’s replacement.

[threedogs]

Maybe even wrap the exhaust with exhaust bandage to keep heat in exhaust
A few members here with petrol models have put the battery in the quarter panel with good results

[FNQGU]

Did a bit of experimenting this morning. Temp of the battery at idle (in Cairns summer) rose to between 37* & 38*C and then cools by a couple of degrees when the vehicle gets moving. I'll get some exhaust wrap on a section of the pipe adjacent to the battery and see what the difference is after that.

Can anyone advise what sort of effect those sorts of constant temps will have on battery longevity?

[Cuppa]

Can anyone advise what sort of effect those sorts of constant temps will have on battery longevity?

I think it fair to say it will reduce the battery’s lifespan. By how much I’n not sure, but suspect it will be by a fair amount.

http://www.indpwrbattery.com/Pages/temperature.aspx

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_heat_and_harsh_loading_reduces_battery_life

Based on this chart a deep cycle battery’s ‘float life’ would be reduced from 8 to 10 years to 2 years if regularly subjected to temps of around 38 degrees

[FNQGU]

Not the news I was looking for Cuppa, but thanks anyway…

Exhaust wrap will go on either tomorrow or Monday, depending on kids stuff, then I'll run the tests again and see where it stands.

Others with Chev installs by Brunswick Diesel that included an Aux battery placed as such might also be interested in this bit of data.

Not sure where Bullet Diesel or others fit their Aux batteries though.

[Gecko17]

Ben, I pm'd you then read the thread, knucklehead that I am, but hey, it's bloody hot up here at the moment and I think my brain stopped working several hours ago anyway.

Now that I have read the thread, I understand your pm. I am trying to set mine up as a tourer, predominantly, as well. Not sure what type of red arc setup I have but I know that when I put my winch in, my mate changed all the gauge of the wiring to the 2nd battery as well as an Anderson plug by the tow bar. The idea being to eventually run a third battery in my camper trailer.

Haven't had any issues as yet since changing the wiring, but don't know what effect, if any, it's having on the battery under the chassis. I am on 2 on, 2 off roster and the only problem I have had is with the crank battery not holding charge but it's the battery that came with the truck to is due to be changed anyway.

When we're away camping, I hook up my solar panels to the Anderson plug at the rear. Works a charm. Also looked as a wind turbine as where we are over in WA, if there in no sun, there surely is wind. Great combo with the solar panels. All lighting is now LED so biggest draw is the fridge... Want to get an AGM battery as aux but have been told that they definitely don't like heat so may have to find out the temp then heat shield as well.

Let me know how you go.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[FNQGU]

Sounds like you have a similar plan in mind. Your cable to the Anderson plug at the rear of your vehicle must run from your Aux battery then? If your solar charges your Aux battery when camped? I've run mine from the terminal on the Isolator that comes direct from the Crank Battery so I will get the extra oomph from the alternator to the trailer when I finally get around to it. I'll probably also run a DC-DC charger in the camper too, with a separate solar setup. Getting off track a bit, but I'm just toying with the concept of flat mounting a 160W panel to the front of my roof rack on the Patrol. A rectangular panel is too bloody long, and a square panel takes up too much room on the rack unless I slide it forward over the front of the rack by about 200mm. Might end up with a fold out kit, of twin 80W panels yet.

Always something to muck with.

[threedogs]

You wouldn't want bigger than a 100 watt panel would you getting approx. 6-7 ah back every hour in good conditions.
With panels bigger is not always better

[FNQGU]

Yeah, I looked at a single 100W panel and as long as the conditions are 'good', then yes, it would most likely suffice. For peace of mind, and a bit of planning for possible future draw, I tend to think that more is actually better when it comes to solar capacity and my needs. I could probably wing it on a single 120W panel, but would be more comfortable with about 150W or 160W as it should keep my battery up around the 98-99% charged by the end of the day. My goal is to have more power coming in than going out.

[FNQGU]

Anyway, to finish off my dribbling on the install, this is where I put the head unit. I haven't 100% decided that this is where it is going to live, more just testing it here for a while to see how it goes.
My other option is to run the cable up through the drivers side pillar and into the overhead console where I think it could be mounted about level with the left side of my head when driving.

http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/ad197/BenKDJ/BMSHeadUnit1_zps5673ad86.jpg (http://s935.photobucket.com/user/BenKDJ/media/BMSHeadUnit1_zps5673ad86.jpg.html)

http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/ad197/BenKDJ/BMSHeadUnit2_zps4da4bf32.jpg (http://s935.photobucket.com/user/BenKDJ/media/BMSHeadUnit2_zps4da4bf32.jpg.html)

[FNQGU]

To complete the install, I wanted to retain the ability to jump start from the Aux battery if the Crank Battery went flat for some reason. I also wanted to be able to parallel the batteries and have the BMS push charge to the Crank Battery as well. My reasoning for wanting this was firstly because I go away for a month at a time with work and had been experiencing some flat battery issues with my crank battery. As the BMS has the ability to take a 240V input, I wanted to simply plug it into the mains when I am away and have it look after both batteries. Secondly, i wanted to be able to run the stereo in camp (from the Crank battery) and not be worried about flattening the battery as I could send some charge to it from either solar input or the generator if needed.

This ability wasn't in the Redarc wiring diagram and they initially said it was because the batteries needed to be the same or at least very similar for the BMS to work in this way and that I may get error codes coming up, plus it would effect my data log accuracy. All of which is true, however my crank battery is an AGM Optima, and the Aux is an AGM Full River so technically it should still work and Redarc agreed although i wouldn't be able to put the BMS into storage mode. No big deal as I see it.

Redarc advised that I would have to remove the chip from the SBI12 to make it a manual or 'constant duty' isolator, and then change my switch in the cab from a spring loaded push-button to a simple 'on-off' switch to activate the relay and complete the circuit. So this was done, and you can see the 'smart' chip is gone from the isolator. This is the switch in the cab. The red LED indicates the batteries are in parallel (for this photo only).

http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/ad197/BenKDJ/BMSManualParallelSwitch_zpsb78d55d9.jpg (http://s935.photobucket.com/user/BenKDJ/media/BMSManualParallelSwitch_zpsb78d55d9.jpg.html)

[Cuppa]

I'm just toying with the concept of flat mounting a 160W panel to the front of my roof rack on the Patrol. A rectangular panel is too bloody long, and a square panel takes up too much room on the rack unless I slide it forward over the front of the rack by about 200mm. Might end up with a fold out kit, of twin 80W panels yet.

.

Check out an innovative & effective method of roof mounting solar panels when space is limited. Third pic down on right shows animated operation. More in the text on the design. I have seen it in use, very clever & simple. Works well. We have christened him ‘Parallelogram Pete’.
http://manins.net.au/motorhome/solar.html

[FNQGU]

This one is just a pic of the 6B&S cable coming out of the engine bay grommet and where I fed it into the chassis down to the Anderson Plug for the trailer.

http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/ad197/BenKDJ/BMSCabling2_zps9f16fc04.jpg (http://s935.photobucket.com/user/BenKDJ/media/BMSCabling2_zps9f16fc04.jpg.html)

http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/ad197/BenKDJ/BMSTrailerAndersonPlug_zpsc4f124cc.jpg (http://s935.photobucket.com/user/BenKDJ/media/BMSTrailerAndersonPlug_zpsc4f124cc.jpg.html)

Only fed the +tive cable down the chassis for ease and saving money. Earthed it on the chassis at the back end.

The bigger cable in the first pic is the original cabling from the Isolator to the Aux battery and it runs along on top of the chassis to the battery.

[FNQGU]

Check out an innovative & effective method of roof mounting solar panels when space is limited. Third pic down on right shows animated operation. More in the text on the design. I have seen it in use, very clever & simple. Works well. We have christened him ‘Parallelogram Pete’.
http://manins.net.au/motorhome/solar.html

Now I am liking that idea. I'd probably mount it on the front of my roof rack and fold it out over the windscreen when it use. That method protects all the cables and joins nicely too. Innovative.

[Gecko17]

With my solar panels, which are 2 x 80w foldables, they hook into my anderson plug at the rear so only charge my aux batt. However, because they are placed on the ground, I can move them to the front and charge the crank batt. if required. I figure that when driving, the BMS charges the crank batt first then when that is full, flicks over to charge the aux. Becasue we normally drive around the area sightseeing, the only real worry is the aux batt for me. I also figure that when I set up the wind turbine and solar panel, in conjunction with a 3rd batt, I should be fairly self sufficient for at least a week with out main stream power.

[Gecko17]

addendum;

for my needs, I don't reeally see the need to permanantly fix solar panels as when I am driving, the battries are charging. When I am camping, the solar and turbine will take care of it (mostly). If I don't get enough sun/wind, we have normally been exploring so the batteries should have enough.

What I would want is a decent BMS, the likes of which you have.

[FNQGU]

Yeah, lots of different ways of skinning this rabbit…

Have never tried a wind generator so i know nothing about them. Obviously some places would be a lot better than others for them to work effectively. Another good option in the box of tricks I guess.

I am thinking about fixing the panels on the roof rack because I am probably just too lazy to stuff around moving them every couple of hours etc. When I pull up camp I just want to park the truck where I get a decent amount of sun for a decent amount of the day, and leave them to do their stuff. We are often boating or kayaking or wandering the river banks or gorges etc. so leaving the car parked up for a while is often the case for us. I am hoping that the BMS will assist in making this happen and give me all the info I need at a glance to make decisions on the state of charge in the battery. A good DC-DC charger would do almost as much as the BMS and is a cheaper option if you know your input and loads and maybe have some sort of LED indicator for your state of charge or a different sort of read-out panel somewhere.

Quite a few options out there I think.

[Cuppa]

re wind generators........ my limited experience of the more portable type which are feasible to use for vehicle based camping is that they require a fairly reasonable wind speed to be effective, & when this occurs that they tend to be irritatingly noisy & intrusive. As well as this, basically anywhere with sufficient wind speeds are unlikely to be pleasant places to camp. I personally consider that the money spent on a wind turbine might be better spent on either extra solar capacity and/or extra battery capacity.

[FNQGU]

Well, I put about 18" of exhaust wrap on the pipe adjacent to the battery box location and so far it seems to be working fairly well although we need a few more hot days like before to really compare. After some driving around town and then some idling in the driveway, I have seen the battery temps reach 30 degrees. I'd be happy if they stay around there, or low 30's anyway. I don't imagine engine bay temps would be any better, so I'll just have to make do I suppose. Could always put a longer length of wrap on the pipe as another option too.

Addendum - up to 33 degrees. Still quite acceptable I think.

Sent from my iPad using Motorculture mobile app