Group Buy, 63% transfer reduction for GQ/GU

[love ke70]

approved by Andy :)

ITEM: 63% transfer reduction gears for GQ and GU patrol

PRICE AND PRICE CONDITIONS: $1300 + post. Yes thats cheaper than marks sell their kits for, and its a new custom run.

CONDITION: Brand spanking new

REASON FOR SELLING: I wanted a set for myself and the only way of getting them made is in a group buy of 15 sets.

EXTRA INFO: Hi guys, for a long time I have been thinking about reduction gears for my GQ, especially after wheeling with some mates with cruiser utes and the much lower gearing they have.
I did the maths, and a 43% reduction brings the gearing only just lower than a standard cruiser, but the other available option of 85% by marks 4wd is a huge step down and will result in much stopping and transfer leaving tossing.

So I contacted Marks about making something in the 60-65% area, after reading a thread on here about that. After a bit of to-ing and fro-ing they decided they can make a 63% ratio and sell it as a kit exactly the same as their other kits, as seen here: http://www.marks4wd.com/mfk1515-2-86l.html

Kit contains:
· Input gear
· Idler gear
· Output gear
· Bearing spacer
· Welsh plug
· Backlash eliminator
· Instructions
All GQ and GU vehicles run the same gearing in the transfer case. We haven’t confirmed this with the 2012 and onwards vehicles that were fitted with traction control.

As some people may be aware, its commonly reported you have to die grind a small amount inside the casing to fit the 85% gears, according to marks this can be the case with the 43% as well, and the 63% will also fall into this category that some people depending on the casting will have to die grind a small amount inside the casing to maintain clearance.

the ratio according to Marks is about 3.29:1

I should mention, this is at the moment an expression of interest, I need to get enough interest to make this work, Please do not say you will buy if you are not going to come through, once I feel there is enough interest I will collect deposits and place the order with Marks 4wd. If it all falls apart after I start taking deposits I will of course fully refund any deposit taken.


LOCATION: Yatala, will post all over the world

CONTACT: PM, reply, or Andy on 0433 108 569

PICTURES: much the same as seen here:
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c292/arowland2/mfk1515-1-web_4_zps5d0c184a.jpg (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/arowland2/media/mfk1515-1-web_4_zps5d0c184a.jpg.html)

Interested parties:

1. Love ke70 (Andy)
2. Thrasher
3. Patrol 28
4. The Great 2.8
5. Komodo
6. Leck48
7. FlexGQ
8. Razor2000
9. 89gqpatrol4x4
10. GUTROL4.2
11. chubba
12. Pat (chubba's brother)
13. MadK1w1
14. 03gallagherj
15. 2.8_hki
16. UNKO
17. s1mon


If your name is on this list and you feel you will not actually come through with the deposit and payment when it comes that time, please ask me to remove your name from the list. This is much preferable to people not making payments at the end and letting everyone down.


Cheers, Andy

[AB]

Yes, in case anyone is wondering Andy did ask me if this was ok first as he is trying to get the group buy on another forum as well and needs the numbers.

I do not know Andy, nor am I involved with this group buy but good luck with it mate.

[nissannewby]

This will be the 3rd one I have seen it on lol.

[love ke70]

Thanks AB

Nissannewby, yeah here, outers (which has had 0 response ) and patrol4x4 (who are eatin it up)
Alot of people dont frequent all forums, so you gotta spread the love you know...

Cheers, Andy

[Ben-e-boy]

I would consider it. I already have the 85%, If I could offload them I will jump on these. I'll keep my eye on the other forums (i have an account on all three) as well if you get stuck on the last 1 or 2 let me know

[Bloodyaussie]

I would consider it. I already have the 85%, If I could offload them I will jump on these. I'll keep my eye on the other forums (i have an account on all three) as well if you get stuck on the last 1 or 2 let me know

Slut!!!!!!!

[love ke70]

No worries Ben, whats your issue with the 85%? too slow for most stuff?

[Ben-e-boy]

No worries Ben, whats your issue with the 85%? too slow for most stuff?

I usually play in the rocks and ruts and the 85's are everything I want for crawling. Typical SE Qld terrain.

In october I went down to the high country and the distance between obsticles is pretty far. Not like little red to big red.
Most of the steep terain is too steep for 4H and annoyingly slow for 4L

I really like crawlin and the 43% are more suited to a tourer, the 63% I think will be the right combo for a crawler that might tour aswell

[Chubba]

Hi Andy .Have been agonising over the choice between 43s and 85s, the 63s may be the answer. What sort of time frame are we looking at?

[love ke70]

Thanks for that Ben, that was pretty much what I was thinking when I approached Marks for the gears

Chubba, I will start taking deposits as soon as I have the 15 so it does not get too long winded, but if it happens before christmas new year I would probably wait til mid to late Jan for everyone to get on board before putting through the order and then its 6 to 8 week wait for production, which is when the final payment would be needed.

Cheers, Andy

[89gqpatrol4x4]

I'm keen mate, keep me posted and what sort of deposit are we talking. Also are you a business or just one bloke trying to get 63% reduction gears and what sort of safety do I have that once you got 15 deposits your not just going to disappear with my money. It's not that I'm distrusting but these things happen!

[love ke70]

deposit of 50%
I have a company for work purposes, but I am doing this privately because I wanted them.
I can give you my address, you would be able to take your deposit in items you found around the place about 100 times over before you even tried lol
I am well known on a couple of corolla forums, and patrol4x4
It is a great idea to take the money and run, but I can assure you, thats not what I will do.

let me know if you want me to put you on the list :)

Cheers, Andy

[89gqpatrol4x4]

put me on the list then please
Rob

[growler2058]

Plenty of people are well known on forums............................................ .............mmmmmmmmmm especially megga millionaires who want to share their fortune, just need your bank details bwahahahahahahha..........................honest :)

[89gqpatrol4x4]

Just need something in writing that's states your intentions and what the deposit is for, with a deposit back guarantee if it falls through and a money back guarantee if item is not as stated, is wrong, damaged etc, Thanks.

[Chubba]

Question to all , My research leads me to believe that a 43% reduction would bring my 4.5L autos low1st ratio to about the same as the low1st of a manual patrol. My brother (also a 4.5l auto) and I do trips with one of my other brothers and his mates who all have land cruiser. We would like to get our low1st ratio down to something like they have or a little better, so 63% sounds like the go. Is my reasoning here sound?

[Ben-e-boy]

Just need something in writing that's states your intentions and what the deposit is for, with a deposit back guarantee if it falls through and a money back guarantee if item is not as stated, is wrong, damaged etc, Thanks.

The beauty of being on multiple forums is that it is relitivly easy to find out a little bit of info,ie location from avatar like your avatar,
Build threads etc.
Love ke70 dosnt live very far from you, come deposit time do a face to face transaction settle a bit of unknown so to speak.
Personally hand him a deposit, Get a reciept have a beer, Dribble some sh1t about 4wdsall good

[love ke70]

growler, thats my next scheme hahahaha
89gqpatrol4x4, I have added you to the list.
I will do all of what you asked for when the deposit taking begins, if not, as Ben said, You are in Brassall, I am in yatala, its not hard to meet face to face, which is why I offered my address :)

Chubba, what is your:
diff ratio and first gear ratio. I can do the sums.
also depends which landcruiser

If you look in this thread:
http://www.patrol4x4.com/forum/general-patrol-discussion-17/group-buy-63%25-transfer-reduction-gq-gu-136010/
I ramble on somewhat about the comparison to a landcruiser

I think the 63% will be about the same but if you give me the details I will do the sums, as the other thread shows, this gearing in a manual brings you a bit lower than a standard cruiser, which will be a nice thing.

Cheers, Andy

[growler2058]

growler, thats my next scheme hahahaha
89gqpatrol4x4, I have added you to the list.
I will do all of what you asked for when the deposit taking begins, if not, as Ben said, You are in Brassall, I am in yatala, its not hard to meet face to face, which is why I offered my address :)

Chubba, what is your:
diff ratio and first gear ratio. I can do the sums.
also depends which landcruiser

If you look in this thread:
http://www.patrol4x4.com/forum/general-patrol-discussion-17/group-buy-63%25-transfer-reduction-gq-gu-136010/
I ramble on somewhat about the comparison to a landcruiser

I think the 63% will be about the same but if you give me the details I will do the sums, as the other thread shows, this gearing in a manual brings you a bit lower than a standard cruiser, which will be a nice thing.

Cheers, Andy

Or go the rich Ryasian bride hahahahahahahahhahaha ahhhhhhh yes I'm a cynical ####

[Chubba]

here we go Andy,
diff ratio 3.9/1
transfer low range 2.02
1st gear 2.784/1

[love ke70]

FactoryTD 1HD-FTE: HDJ78/79 with H150F gearbox:
1st: 4.529
Transfer: 2.488
Diffs: 4.100
Landcruiser first gear reduction = 46.199


Patrol auto for chubba
Diff 3.9
1st gear 2.784
Transfer stock (2.02) 3.9 x 2.784 x 2.02 = 21.93
Transfer 43 (2.86) 3.9 x 2.784 x 2.86 = 31.05
Transfer 63 (3.29) 3.9 x 2.784 x 3.29 = 35.72
Transfer 85 (3.743) 3.9 x 2.784 x 3.743 = 40.64

that last number is obviously the number of engine revolutions required to turn the tyre once

very hard to compare a manual to an auto, but on paper thats what it is. depending on which landcruiser it is.
May be worth checking, as I am not sure how much the landcruiser varies from ute to other models.
What landcruiser are you trying to match to?

Cheers, Andy

[love ke70]

A343 1st gear 2.804:1 which is the 95-97 auto
Transfer low 2.49:1
The 442 1st gear is 2.950:1


SO,
and landcruiser auto, to compare to your auto, assuming 3.9 diff gears
for the A343: 27.23
for the 442: 28.64

so, which landcruiser and what gearbox are you trying to match?

Obviously bear in mind the torque converter multiplication too.

[89gqpatrol4x4]

all good just don't wont to get ripped! Add me to the list thanks.

[love ke70]

So I am spamming my own thread here

for the landcruiser a small googling tells me The torque convertor is a 1.8 to one multiplyer.

so that would put the actual reduction to the wheel at

27.23*1.8=49.01
28.64*1.8 =51.55

which is pretty bloody close to the manual reduction, so I reckon they may be right.

I could find no detail, in the workshop manual or on google about the nissan auto torque convertor reduction, but the auto will fit in a 300zx lol
even if we assume a similar 1.8 ratio in the pootrol

using the 63% with the 3.9 and auto first gear the ratio was 35.72 multiply that by 1.8 = 64.30. which is pretty close to a manual with 85%. but obviously the converter gives you much more room to move. I really dont know what the patrol torque convertor ratio is though.

I dont think I have posted it here yet either, 4.11 ratios

Patrol late model first gear reduction = 35.384 engine revolution to one wheel revolution
Patrol late model first gear reduction 24% = 43.406 engine revolution to one wheel revolution
Patrol late model first gear reduction 43% = 49.976 engine revolution to one wheel revolution
Patrol late model first gear reduction 63% = 57.49 engine revolution to one wheel revolution
Patrol late model first gear reduction 85% = 65.406 engine revolution to one wheel revolution

[love ke70]

all good just don't wont to get ripped! Add me to the list thanks.

too easy mate, on the list you are.

Cheers, Andy

[love ke70]

Hey guys, so now with christmas and new years out the way, is there anyone else, or any maybes that want to jump on the bandwagon here before I start finalizing things?

Cheers, Andy

[FNQGU]

Very interested to see how everyone goes with this. Unfortunately I don't have the coin at the moment, but it has been on my mind ever since doing the Maytown Track and needing some crawler capacity in a general tourer setup. I had the 43% reduction in mind, but I think you might be spot on here with a 63% reduction being the best all rounder.

[TiPatrol]

Sounds good but I'd go with 85% if I'm reducing.

[love ke70]

It is all horses for courses really, depends if you want crawl only, or some capability to still move between things without coming out of low range :)

[TiPatrol]

Yeah, I understand what you mean.

[Ben-e-boy]

Sounds good but I'd go with 85% if I'm reducing.

I have 85% in mine and you cant go past 15-20kmh. The gears start screaming because they are spinning too quick for their liking. I think the 63% will be a good compromise If I didnt already have the gears I would jump on this quick smart.

[TiPatrol]

I have 85% in mine and you cant go past 15-20kmh. The gears start screaming because they are spinning too quick for their liking. I think the 63% will be a good compromise If I didnt already have the gears I would jump on this quick smart.

Thanks for the info, good to know from someone who's already got it. A mate of mine has it as well, swears by it, I watch him go offroad and it's good, it does sound like the gears are screaming their heads off. I'll ask him again if he'd go 63% if he had a choice.

[growler2058]

Don't forget Ben is turbo diesel and manual cog swapper. May not suit the petty boys with auto slush boxes.....................just saying

[love ke70]

OK guys, we have reached 15 committed people.
anyone that wants to bail needs to do so right away. everyone else, please start putting the money aside I will be sending PMs in a week or two, likely two, im fuggin busy and still waiting to hear back from marks on a question I sent them the other day.

Once I do start collecting deposits I would appreciate receiving everyone's payment within a week so its not drawn out. That is why I am drawing it out now, so all the money and ordering is as streamlined as possible.

The buy is still open, anyone that wants a set is still welcome to contact me and I will add you to the list :)


Cheers, Andy

[TuffTD42]

Where are you upto with this? I'm thinking about it. wish I seen this last week. I was at mt crosby for a week at my brothers. Could have introduced ourselfs in person. Now I'm 1000 kays away.

[love ke70]

OK, deposits will be being taken next week, TuffTD42 I sent you a reply PM, let me know if you wanna jump on board.

I will PM everyone sometime next week with details etc.

Cheers, Andy

[love ke70]

OK,

I believe I have now PM'd everyone that was on the list.
If anyone is on the list and has not recieved a PM please let me know ASAp.
everyone else, please send some cash my way, I need a holiday on a tropical island some place :P

Anyone thats not on the list, but wants a set, let me know ASAP.
order will be placed once deposits are received from all interested parties.

Cheers, Andy

[threedogs]

I'll ask at a few shops I know that specialise in Patrols for you.

[love ke70]

That would be good.
Cheers mate :-)

[love ke70]

How did you go at the shops TD?

I am still waiting on a few people to come through with the deposits,
and I know a couple of people are still waiting on info from me from marks, I have just emailed marks for the 4th time and got a confused response, so for some reason I dont think they have received the previous emails.
Should all be sorted now though :)


Cheers, Andy

[love ke70]

Hey guys, spoke to Marks today, if there is a warranty issue it will be covered by their standard 12month, 20,000km warranty. The item would come back to me and I would have to liase with marks but they will cover any warranty issues. That said, they have never had a warranty issue on a set of gears.
If everyone can please make payment, or let me know if you will not be coming through with the buy, please let me know.


Cheers, Andy

[Chubba]

Hay Andy. All good mate. you will have our money tomorrow. Chubba and Pat

[love ke70]

Thanks, I have had contact from another on the list too, so that gets us to 15 once those deposits come in. only leaves 2 out. Hope they make contact soon if not I will be moving on without them unfortunately.

Cheers, Andy

[Ben-e-boy]

Fark you have been patient with this Andy

[love ke70]

I run a crew of chippies, this is nothing compared to hiring and firing idiots that tell you they can do a job and have no idea, dealing with metro sexual apprentices that only think of their hair and vodka sunrises, and developers and supervisors who want the impossible delivered in record time with the material to do the job ;)

I think I said order would be around mid Feb at some stage didnt I?

[Ben-e-boy]

I think I said order would be around mid Feb at some stage didnt I?

To be honest I dont really know lol :/

[love ke70]

me neither!
Ive got too much to do on my truck as it is, I am more concerned about everyone else involved.

[Ben-e-boy]

me neither!
Ive got too much to do on my truck as it is, I am more concerned about everyone else involved.

I think when this is all said and done a glasshouse trip is on the cards.... the 85%ers V the 63%ers

[love ke70]

I am in for that, had my truck nearly 7 years, have done kakadu and the cape, but glasshouse always seems too far!
you will have to show us around

[Ben-e-boy]

I am in for that, had my truck nearly 7 years, have done kakadu and the cape, but glasshouse always seems too far!
you will have to show us around


Really never been, oh well no time like the present to pop that cherry lmao

[love ke70]

HAHA, dont make me put up my list of things to do :P
crossed a few off the other week, went out to sundown NP(really good fun, not super hardcore, just fun wheeling) came home with a leaking steering box. thats after 2 rebuilds in 50K and a headgasket inbetween those!

[love ke70]

OK, last calls guys, anyone else wanna come onboard?
Will be ordering this week.

Cheers, Andy

[love ke70]

OK, for those playing at home, just a quick update.
I have 2 spare sets ordered, so if someone wants a set, just let me know.
The order has been placed but the production time has grown. This is because marks has lots of work on, more than when the original inquiry was made, and I recieved further correspondence yesterday clarifying the extended times

"We are currently waiting on a cutter from Japan before we can finish your gears as well as another batch of our 24 and 43% gears.



I have still been told 15 weeks but they hope to have them done sooner. Waiting on the cutter is what makes us uncertain on the exact timeframe, I will let you know how things progess."


So as you can see, I only know so much, will update thread as I know more, but it will be what it will be :)


Cheers, Andy

[Chubba]

Thanks Andy for update. I am holding my breath!

[Chubba]

To all who are interested my 63% reduction gears came today. The day before we head of to the snow so they wont be installed for that but a couple of weeks after I get back they will be going in and I will be testing them immediately.Its taken six months since it was first brought up but I bet it will be worth the wait, will let you know how they go, and a final thanks to Andy for organising them for all of us, cheers mate.

[growler2058]

To all who are interested my 63% reduction gears came today. The day before we head of to the snow so they wont be installed for that but a couple of weeks after I get back they will be going in and I will be testing them immediately.Its taken six months since it was first brought up but I bet it will be worth the wait, will let you know how they go, and a final thanks to Andy for organising them for all of us, cheers mate.

85's woulda been heaps better

[Chubba]

maybe, lets test them out first.

[growler2058]

maybe, lets test them out first.

You know I'm right ;)

[Chubba]

nah, nah, nah

[KiwiAngler]

85's woulda been heaps better

I have had 85% fitted to my GU Patrol for a number of years now and reckon the following:

1) perfect for Victorian high country (or similar) - at the time I was spending a lot of time in the VHC so installed the 85% just for that driving- crawls up any hill without any crashing and bashing or wheel spinning - excellent for downhill braking - can bring heavy GU to a stop on some pretty steep hills if I want to

2) Have done the Simpson, Anne Beadell, Canning and spent a LOT of time in West McDonald, Pilbara and Kimberley towing a Conqueror UEV490 did a great job - didn't get stopped/bogged on a single dune - again very sedate - no bashing crashing BUT felt the 85% was too low overall - revs were high - fuel consumption was high - but did the job very well

SUMMARY

Now that I have changed my driving profile (full time grey nomad for the last 5 years now and towing a camper) where I am going into more "average" locations when compared to VHC - If someone said to me I will pay the changeover costs for you to go to 65% and I will have your 85% (hint hint) I definitely would

But if I was still spending as much time in VHC as I used to then I would stay with my 85%

[love ke70]

Good info there Kiwi :)
Glad you got the gears chubba, shame you did not get them in before your trip though.
remember 4 months of the 6 months was production time, and Marks still actually do not have the cutter they are waiting on, so as far as I am aware, are not even producing their standard sets at the moment as the cost to get them ground they way they did ours was rather prohibitive lol

Cheers, Andy

[FNQGU]

They are just back on-line with their normal cutters now. Broke two sets was the reason I was told there were delays.

[love ke70]

Ah, that must be new, 2 weeks ago they were still waiting for the new machine from Japan.
Glad they are up and running.

[love ke70]

Hey guys,

As this buy was such a success and I have had a number of people contacting me chasing a set after the buy had closed, I am actually going to run a second group buy. everything is the same as the first time round, so just check the first post and only put your name down if you are a definite :)

Cheers, Andy

[Ben-e-boy]

Wow Andy, Great job mate!!!.

When is the first trip to test them out

[love ke70]

My POS is in the shop again,
and when it comes out the shop I prob wont have time to fit them, so might get them done at a shop, as the box has started throwing itself out of first I have the feeling its not going to be cheap to get the gears fitted and the box fixed, so may be a few weeks yet...
Been never ending since I built the motor in this thing....

[Ben-e-boy]

My POS is in the shop again,
and when it comes out the shop I prob wont have time to fit them, so might get them done at a shop, as the box has started throwing itself out of first I have the feeling its not going to be cheap to get the gears fitted and the box fixed, so may be a few weeks yet...
Been never ending since I built the motor in this thing....

Whats the deal with the new motor? Do you have a thread on the other forum?

[love ke70]

Nah no thread on the truck, never get enough time to update anyway lol

I built it myself and had the machine work done by a shop, New GU head, GU pistons, pump and turbo etc, was meant to be bullet proof.

Couldnt keep coolant in the thing, finally decided it was combustion pressure pushing into the coolant jacket pumping it out the overflow.
that was less than 12 months and 25K
did the gasket and about 8 months later, 20K, it was doing it again, pulled it down and had a proper look this time, found it to be a liner was below deck height, so shop built motor under warranty and I re-installed.

15K after that, just a few weeks ago, it chewed out the keyway as I must of not got the pulley all the way back when I put the crank pulley back on (note from the wise, run the nut up tight against the pulley, then take it off and install the cone, cause with the cone it wont push the pulley back).

Got that back 2 weeks ago, went out to janowen that weekend, all was good, smashed some good hills, then I was heading to agnes water for a job, just outside of gympie I look at temp gauge, needle is pinned against the stop, over 120 on the gauge, went phark, wasnt like that moments ago, coolant pissing everywhere, no power steer, alternator light on.

pop bonnet, its throwing coolant 2 metres out the over flow bottle and all 3 belts are either missing or tied in a not around the pulleys.

I rang the workshop and said wtf have you done, I paid you to do the remove and re-install on the motor when doing the crank so as to avoid having any dramas, and less than 2 weeks later its just dropped its shit and I am stranded, and now my radiator is split, the deal was, hassle free motoring.

they say the radiator let go which made the belt spit off, so I dunno whether that is the case or the belts lost their shit and the pressure and heat split the rad.

so I am up for a new radiator and the tow etc etc, and neither the shop nor the radiator mob want to know about footing the bill as its all a bit chicken and the egg...

and since the weekend at janowen the fkn thing has occasionally been jumping out of first on take off with a load on, so I think I may have lost a tooth, doesnt seem like a detent spring issue, but could be....

[tiny]

Is the second group buy going ahead or are there any gear sets out there not fitted that are up for sale.. I'm keen for a set of these asap..
Cheers

[love ke70]

There's a second run going on patrol4x4
Gears will be delivered mid Feb.
Can't get much quicker ;-)
3 sets available, have a look over there and let me know if keen :-)

Cheers, Andy

[love ke70]

Hey everyone,

Just so people know, I have a bunch of sets of these orders, so please get in touch if you or someone you know whats the best reduction gear ratio around.

Cheers, Andy

[love ke70]

Hey guys,

I have about 10 sets of these in stock (from a run of 50 I have done)
Anyone want a set let me know asap :)

Cheers, Andy

[Clb83]

Any sets left for sale

[love ke70]

I have just ordered a new run of these, taking deposits now for anyone interested, 700 deposit and the gears are priced at 1410.

Cheers, Andy

[jay see]

I have just ordered a new run of these, taking deposits now for anyone interested, 700 deposit and the gears are priced at 1410.

Cheers, Andy
Good on ya.
Have only done one trip since putting mine in and it's excellent perfect balance of rev and speed for my tb45 auto.



Sent from my A1601 using Tapatalk

[Chubba]

Anyone thinking of getting these, I would say go for it. As Jay see said perfect balance. You can trust Andy for sure.

[love ke70]

Thanks for the good feedback guys, appreciate it :)

Please tell all your friends, pass my phone number around to anyone who may be interested

Cheers, Andy

0433 108 569

[love ke70]

Bump654321

[love ke70]

Production will be completed this week guys!

[love ke70]

Now in stock!!!

[Bloggsy]

Finally got mine installed a week ago after buying a set of these off Andy a year ago. LOL!! They've been installed in my 2003 tb48 auto running 3.9 diff ratios. Tried them out on the tracks in Harvey WA this weekend just gone and I'm blown away with the difference they make. Totally transformed the Patrol's off-road ability. Manually selected 1st gear on downhill descents, it just walks down without having to touch the brakes. No more sh###ing myself on slippery descents. Uphill I can just select D and away it goes, where as before I found that I had to manually select the right gears. So much more control in the more technical stuff too. I usually like to putt around the tracks in low range most of the day, so I was interested to see if I could still do this without going back and forth between 4H and 4L. I'm happy to say I can still leave it in 4L pretty much all day long on the tracks. Another thing, my Patrol used to struggle reversing up hills for whatever reason. I happened to need to reverse up a steep hill this weekend past and was expecting to struggle doing so, initially it scarred the cr@p out of me as the Patrol just powered up the hill in reverse as if the hill wasn't there. Oh and I was running 35's on the weekend.

If your thinking about getting these, just do it.

Big thanks to Andy for organising these gears.

Cheers,
Darren

[Chubba]

100% agree!!
Just do it!