My poor GU Y61

[Rudy]

Hello Guys
Sorry for the long thread.
Wondering if anybody else has had the same issue that I'm going through at the moment, been that my GU was one of the many thousands that was recalled by Nissan. Months before Nissan released the recall my GU was actually doing exactly how they described it on their website. Coasting to a stop at a round about or set of lights the thing would just stop dead. Throw it into neutral and start it up and continue driving. This would happen 3-4 times per day. Went to Nissan dealer they never could find what it was. This went on for months and pretty scary not to mention dangers at times. Until that day that Nissan posted that there was a recall, to my relief I book it in straight away thinking my truck will be good a new again. Only to find after a couple of days that the thing was doing the exact same thing again. So this time I thought well good at least this time the know what to fix. But such luck, it has been at Nissan service now for 5 days.
They are just following a procedure which has lead to them changing the fuel filter, that didn't do anything, now they are telling me that the common rail "maybe" the cause at a cost of $3300. Telling me that if that doesn't work then it must be the pump. I haven't agreed to replacing the rail yet hence the reason I'm writing this long thread to try and explain my situation as brief as possible but with as much info as I can. Hopefully someone has been hear before and there was no need to spend all that doe for it not to work. I strongly believe that this should be part of that recall and Nissan should fix it, instead of guessing at my expense. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again

[threedogs]

get everything in writing with dates and times,
I know a few Tojo's did what you describe but it was the HF radio playing up on the ABS.

[growler2058]

How old is it mate? Is it under warranty?

[Rudy]

Bought it brand in April 2009, only has 125000 on the clock.

[happygu]

Rudy,

Not sure if this could be classed as part of the recall, but it is mysterious - and I am not 100% sure, but it could be pointing to the Pressure Relief Valve on the fuel rail causing the issue ... but this would log a fault code, making it fairly easy to trace.

They should be able to read the codes, but if there aren't any, I would guess this is why Nissan are heading towards the fuel rail, and the pressure relief valve is not generally available as a separate part from the rail due to the extremely high pressures and the possibility of fuel leaks.

There has been a genuine Common Rail Fuel Rail on ebay for quite a while now at $1,138
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Nissan-Patrol-2007-2012-Rail-Assy-Common-17520MA71A-/290858673657?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item43b88725f9
which may be a little cheaper for you.

If you are adventurous, one thing that you could try, is finding someone with a Chip-It chip who is not using the modified fuel rail pressure sensor, and install it to see if that fixes the problem, although that might cause other problems without the chip itself.

Hope this helps a little.

Mic

[happygu]

There is a pump too, but I am not sure if I would go down that path....

Here is the link for you
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NISSAN-PATROL-INJECTOR-PUMP-GU-3-0-ZD30-COMMON-RAIL-TYPE-03-07-07-08-09-10-/281133280891?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4174d96e7b

Mic

[Rumcajs]

I can believe how stupid these dealerships of Nissan and their workforce are. Changing fuel filter.....
Is this the best they can do to trow various parts at the car to see if anything gets fixed? Why would a fuel rail do anything like that? Its just a piece high pressure pipe. Putting a diagnostic thingo on it to check what pressure is in the rail shouldn't be that hard.
In any case why would idling engine be turning off when there is minimal fuel required. This looks like electronic issue not mechanical. Or possibly there is what is called bullchit in/bullchit out scenario where ECU gets incorrect info and reacts incorrectly.

I don't know if CrD has so called "fuel cut off" function when decelerating like Di has and its not cutting out when engine revs drop off bellow certain limit hence the engine stalls and when cycling the ignition key the ECU gets reset. Are we sure the ECU is not loosing its power supply or there is a dodgy earth as Patrols are famous for stupid way the earth/ground is done. Have you got any accessories wired and using the same earth as engine or body ECU?

My suggestion is to take the car away from those dealership idiots and visit Bosch fuel injection specialist to check the fuel system and than visit good sparkie to have all the earth/ground checked as well as any electrical accessories installations validated.
Don't pay these incompetent Nissan morons a cent.
Cheers

[Rudy]

Thanks Mic for all the info very grateful.

[Rudy]

Rumcajs
You make total sense in what you write. It has to be more electronic as the thing runs well 85% of the time. And if it did have anything to do with the common rail pressure then there is no way I could drive to Brisbane an hour away 5 days a week, without it stopping at highway speeds where there are pressures to deal with in the rail. This is way I posted this on this thread, I would have thought not be a mechanic myself that there are better ways to diagnose an engine rather then keep replacing every single item until presto by magic the problem is solved. Its very disheartening to think that these guys don't care how much they charge you because they know that you need your car.

[megatexture]

The problem is they do servicing all day every day and rely on computers to tell them what's wrong and if the computers doesn't know either then they are farked as most of them are just apprentice and aren't experienced enough to diagnose issues.

[Rumcajs]

Do you have Scangauge? I think its time to get one, great tool to observe what ECU does with all its sensors etc. incl reading/clearing any diagnostic codes.
When engine cuts out do you have to turn the key off and on again (cycle) to get it going again? Or do you just turn the key to crank position from ignition ON position right away?

Cheers

[Dales300exc]

The reality is, its not as easy as people think, if there is nothing to chase, where do you start. If it is an electrical fault, you could spend hours and hours searching for something that you don't even have a electrical fault to chase.

I do agree, the rail is almost never a problem. Pumps don't generally fail, but we consistently had valve faults on fuel pumps (hino trucks(scv valve)) that would cause stalling, sometimes and other times would run fine. But i am not familiar with gu pumps.

The more electrical components, the harder, longer and more expensive faults are to find, its the unfortunate reality of the modern era.

[happygu]

Rudy,

I thought I had heard of a similar problem before so I did a little checking for you.

Take a look at this thread and it may be of help
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?18505-Intermittent-shutdown-of-CRD-ZD-30

Mic

[Rumcajs]

The reality is, its not as easy as people think, if there is nothing to chase, where do you start.

The really sad reality is that mostly service tech people have no fcuking clue how the modern automotive systems work and what happens when things don't work. Systems are getting way too complex for the types who leave year 10 and have trouble understanding basic math. These are the people who are recommended by their school career advisors to consider a trade as future employment prospect. It might work for brickies, plumbers and carpenters but certainly not automotive technicians. Logical reasoning, thinking outside the square and understanding basic concepts of physics are prerequisites for that trade.
Any chit kicker can change oil or tighten the wheel nut.
I observe this on daily occurrence how ignorant and incompetent and damn right clueless some technicians are while desperately clutching straws trying to get the computer to tell em where the problem is or what to do. It is hillarous, I'm so glad I don't have to pay for that workmanship in a sense I do but that's another story.
Anyway rant over....

[mudski]

I do a lot of work for the DSE here in Vic. They had at every site all these Patrols parked up and with lock out tags on the steering wheels due to this same problem. They told me a story of one worker towing a fully loaded trailer, he approached an intersection and the car just cut out and he went straight through the intersection and took out another car on the way through.
While this was no help there definately is an issue that Nissan know of as the DSE have maybe around 100 or so of these vehicles and none are being used.

[Rudy]

Rumcajs

When the engine cuts out been auto I drop it into neutral and then turn it back on from the ON position as soon as I can and as safe as I can not to cause an accident.

[Rudy]

mudski

That interesting that Nissan know that there is an issue there. Yesterday I rang up Nissan dealer and asked for a goodwill claim thinking that they might meet me half way, but that came back as denied. So I told them that I be will picking up my truck today, which I did and they hit me with a bill of $491.55 for not fixing my truck. I would love to have a business that even though you can't fix what's wrong you can still charge like a wounded bull. Win win business never have a bad day ever again.

[mudski]

Last I heard about this from the DSE Nissan weren't talking responsibility about it too.

[Rumcajs]

You could have a look at the link posted earlier in regards to brake switch although that fault seem to only put engine to idle not actually stalling the engine as is my understanding in your case. Switch should be mounted near above brake pedal it works like mechanical device where pedal/linkage will press on it when released basically momentary push to break/connect circuit switch.
Is this occurring all the times or just at some conditions that is engine cold/hot, long drive than coming to stop, hot day cold day, particular electric/electronic equipment used, fuel tank half full, etc.
You can do a little test, if it is fairly predictable when engine cuts out/shuts down/stalls on coasting to traffic lights at particular speed, particular operating temps etc. Being auto box can you start proactively coasting with the auto lever put in neutral first before you come to stop, let say observe at what speed the engine dies and that try to put automatic tranny in neutral manually and than see if engine stalls again. If it doesn't than I suggest you could have a problem with automatic transmission perhaps its a long shot but it could be that torque converter is not disengaging under some circumstances and once the engine is stalled oil pressure in tranny is also lost so converter free up (this could be lock up clutch in the torque converter).
I'd start taking/observing exactly under what circumstances does this occur like speed, temps, gear selector position (D), terrain etc.

Cheers

[Rudy]

Rumcajs

Ok this has been happening for so time so I can answer most of those questions now. This occurs all the time, for example this arvo I it up from the dealership it was sitting outside. I got in and started it and by the time I had reached around and grabbed my seat belt and click it in, the truck stopped. On the way home from the dealership come to the set of lights still idling, the lights to green I go to apply the accelerator the engine shuts down with loads of cars sitting behind me, do the same thing neutral then restart and off I go again. Get home without another shut down. Other times after driving for an hour come to set of lights after exiting the highway and under brakes into the lights the thing would shutdown. In the mornings be it raining, winter or summer I normally leave home at about 3:30 am, and I have a few roundabouts before I get onto the highway to head to work. Most times not all the time coasting into the roundabout just before I use the accelerator it shuts down, making interesting turning without power steering, lucky not much traffic that time of the day. Fuel tanks full, MT sub half full main. Can't say that its predictable though. There was a time I was at the lights waiting as we all do on red, and it shut down and I didn't even realize until the green light came on and I had nothing on the gogo pedal.

[happygu]

Rudy,

I don't have the Auto, so I can't replicate the problem for you, but from reading the posts, it looks like you should be able to test the theory yourself, by driving along - make sure you are on the road on your own with no one behind you, keep the accelerator pressed, and then touch the brake pedal at the same time.

If it shuts down, then you have most likely found the cause without the dealers help....

If it does shut down, do it a few times to confirm.


Mic

[happygu]

You could have a look at the link posted earlier in regards to brake switch although that fault seem to only put engine to idle not actually stalling the engine as is my understanding in your case. Switch should be mounted near above brake pedal it works like mechanical device where pedal/linkage will press on it when released basically momentary push to break/connect circuit switch.
Is this occurring all the times or just at some conditions that is engine cold/hot, long drive than coming to stop, hot day cold day, particular electric/electronic equipment used, fuel tank half full, etc.
You can do a little test, if it is fairly predictable when engine cuts out/shuts down/stalls on coasting to traffic lights at particular speed, particular operating temps etc. Being auto box can you start proactively coasting with the auto lever put in neutral first before you come to stop, let say observe at what speed the engine dies and that try to put automatic tranny in neutral manually and than see if engine stalls again. If it doesn't than I suggest you could have a problem with automatic transmission perhaps its a long shot but it could be that torque converter is not disengaging under some circumstances and once the engine is stalled oil pressure in tranny is also lost so converter free up (this could be lock up clutch in the torque converter).
I'd start taking/observing exactly under what circumstances does this occur like speed, temps, gear selector position (D), terrain etc.

Cheers

Rumcajs .. the other thread did also mention that it shutdown completely in the middle of the intersection ..... still a mystery at the moment, but we may be a little closer to a fix

[Rumcajs]

OK, so what exactly did Nissan do for $500 or so apart from changing fuel filter?:frown:
This is more interesting when you say it shuts down while actually just idling after you have started it.
To me this has all the hallmark of "electrical gremlins"
We need to go back to basics.
Vehicle battery, condition, age etc, battery connections, sound, tight clean?
Earth strap/s conditions/connections, consider additional earth strap between chassis and body
Alternator condition/charging rate?
Fuel delivery system integrity (no leaks/air suction)

Visit a good sparkie to have battery/alternator and connections checked first. have him to check that brake switch operation too just in case but I doubt it.
Also power supplys to on board ECU needs to be checked but if you are not cycling key on/off than I fail to see how is that an issue but still worth checking.
Including and not limited to engine position sensors (cam/crank) and their integrity/connections

Visit licensed/authorized Bosch fuel injection specialist to checked the fuel system integrity.

If still not fixed, get a jerry of petrol and do insurance claim (just kidding):sterb003:

I really recommend to obtain Scangauge/Ultragauge which are OBD2 (On Board Diagnostics v2) scanners, are able to read various engine sensors in real time (RPM, boost, voltage, rail pressure, etc)

This has to be a process of elimination and perseverance.
Don't give up

Cheers

[Rudy]

Rumcajs,

Thanks so much for your persistence and help, I really appreciate it. It did something really funny today, at the set of lights just idling away and I made sure that I didn't have my foot on the accelerator at the same time as the brake. The light went green so I went on my way only to find that I no power and then it shut down. Also something I only remembered today, before taking my truck to the dealership, I was driving along and both indicator lights come on on the dash for a couple of seconds.

But as for the main crank battery in is less then 6 months old had that replaced in one of the services I got this year. The second battery only 12 months old.
I will see if I can attach some pics I just took of the batteries. And I will take your advise and book it into an auto sparky and buy a Scangauge. With the scangauge is it something I can do or is this better left to the pros?

[Rudy]

The blue battery in the crank and then there's the second with the battery separator.

[happygu]

The blue battery in the crank and then there's the second with the battery separator.

On a different note Rudy, I would either put some corrugated conduit on the wires going directly over the Aux Battery Mounting Bracket or run the wires a different way, so they don't rub through and short out....

You could glue some conduit along the top edge of the metal bracket too, which would provide the same level of insulation protection.

Mic

[Rumcajs]

Scangauge 2 or Ultragauge 2 are for drivers/persons wanting to know more about their vehicles. They're small LCD monitors/displays which are connected to vehicle diagnostic socket and mounted on the dash somewhere within field of vision easy reach. Easily configurable, display useful information like trip meter information, additional engine sensor information like boost pressure for example , worth IMHO, the diagnostic part is a bonus. You can read and delete DTCs (diagnostic trouble codes)no need to visit Ni$$an st$alers for that..
Here is mine equivalent of Scangauge (Mine doesn't support OBD2 protocol so I can't use it I use ECUTalk LCD for Nissan Consult protocol)
http://i661.photobucket.com/albums/uu333/rumburaknet/4WD/Technical/ECUtalk_FT_zps1f9bfdcc.jpg
I no longer look at Nissan gauges just at the LCD panel, it show everything I need to know.

The indicators flashing randomly could be a part of power/earth supply reset, I actually wonder if NATS (Nissan AntiTheft System) has something to do with those engine shutdowns than.

The OEM battery connections are cheap crappy terminals which are prone to failures,
By any chance your troubles haven't started since you've had the crank battery replaced?
I have for example found to my surprise that what I thought to be tightened ground terminal was actually loose and I could easily pop it off the battery post while clamped tight :1087: about 6 months after I replaced said battery.
So I have replaced the earth terminals recently with something more decent ==>
http://i661.photobucket.com/albums/uu333/rumburaknet/4WD/Technical/Decent_batt_terminal_zps451963a5.jpg


Here is a little info to get you started as well


Cheers

[mudski]

Thanks rummy. You'd think the guy who makes these would atleast put some effort into design. I think I will get one but not use it all the time. Where you have yours sitting is where my boost and egt gauge sits.

[Rudy]

Yer thanks rumcajs, last night I ordered my scangauage should get it in the New Year knowing how slow postage is at this time of the year.

[Rumcajs]

Thanks rummy. You'd think the guy who makes these would atleast put some effort into design. I think I will get one but not use it all the time. Where you have yours sitting is where my boost and egt gauge sits.

I don't think there is a point to spent cash than just to use it occasionally.
Get the ECUTalk cable instead (or make your own) and use ECUTalk software on a laptop/notebook/netbook when you need it.

Cheers

[mudski]

I don't think there is a point to spent cash than just to use it occasionally.
Get the ECUTalk cable instead (or make your own) and use ECUTalk software on a laptop/notebook/netbook when you need it.

Cheers
Hmm. I should do what I was thinking of doing a while back. Build a carputer and have a 7inch touch screen with Windows 8 running.

[Robo]

I'll have a guess for what it's worth
drive by wire right?.
bad earth or power in accelerator switch.
have the same problem in works mitsubishi truck, dealers had 3 looks at it now ( dimb-foundered ).
yours has a hand throttle adjuster?, I can make mine play -up just touching that with tip of pointer finger.
humm good luck.
money's on electrical gremlin.