Mod the 3lt or replace with a 6.5?

[d.n.blewitt]

Looking for opinions

Should I spend cash on My 3lt 2007 cc with mods or wait, save and replace with a 6.5.

[happygu]

Hi Dennis,

You will get a variety of opinions, but I say mod the 3L, as if you afford the change to a 6.5 Chevy, then you can afford the few thousand dollars in mods to the 3 Litre CRD, and sell the bits after if you really aren't happy......but I think you will be.


Mic

[rottodiver]

6.5s have been a real let down..... Don't read too many positive things about them..... Anyway didn't a just read on a thread the patrol was booked in to get mods this week?
Scotty

[d.n.blewitt]

Upgrading this week but Mods for the engine are planned for next year.

Ive been satisfied with it as is, though will start on the engine after Xmas. Just don't wanna be spending cash on a mod if the 6.5 is rated that much better.

I'm more after an opinion on If my 3lt was to die though would I be better off replacing with another 3 n modding or swapping for something else.

[rottodiver]

Oh right...... I would stick with the 3 litre.... ( well I am sticking with the 3 litre)...
Scotty

[nissannewby]

Spend your cash on the 3.0. The 6.5's are woeful, The crd 3.0 probably has more power and torque than it. They are heavy old school tech (still have pressed steel rockers). If you really must go an engine swap look at the duramax engines.

[threedogs]

Just recently seen some great go fast goodies from HP diesel
What are you hoping to achieve,??

[Winnie]

If a 6.5 is on the cards what about a TD42 conversion?

[poindexter]

Check with an engineer if it can be complied, especially with emissions requirements, W.A. will have different regs than Victoria, where I did a 6.5 conversion on my Rangie, and it was not cheap, and I did most of the work myself.
I'm not sure that you can get your 2007 patrol past the emissions test with a 6.5 diesel as I believe is was discontinued 2005.

[MudRunnerTD]

Spend your cash on the 3.0. The 6.5's are woeful, The crd 3.0 probably has more power and torque than it. They are heavy old school tech (still have pressed steel rockers). If you really must go an engine swap look at the duramax engines.

100% agree. This is without a doubt your best outcome.

[mudski]

If a 6.5 is on the cards what about a TD42 conversion?

I'd be going that way if I was to do an engine swap. Some members here getting great horse power out of those engines. .

[MudRunnerTD]

I'd be going that way if I was to do an engine swap. Some members here getting great horse power out of those engines. .

I think he will have Emissions trouble.

[Shaun 4x4]

Quick question on this. Because mine is a 2005 does that mean with an engine swap to a 4.2 it only has to meet emmisions for the year of 2005?

[MudRunnerTD]

Quick question on this. Because mine is a 2005 does that mean with an engine swap to a 4.2 it only has to meet emmisions for the year of 2005?

yes thats my understanding

[FNQGU]

Yep, that is my understanding as well. You will need to comply with 2005 emissions standards.

A lot of people seem willing to bag the 6.5, and I assume their comments are all based on their own personal experience, not hearsay, but don't write them off until you've tried one. A 3.0 with more torque? Perhaps, but you would have to ring the neck out of it. Completely different torque curve, so it may be almost useless to you. If you want low down torque for towing, then it is an extremely good option as I see it. If you want power galore in low range or in rough stuff, then it is awesome. Parts are common, and the engine is a simple one that is old technology, which for me means I can do it myself.

Personally, if I didn't go the 6.5, I probably would have transplanted in a 4.2 and done a fair bit of work to it. The 4.2 is a very reliable motor even when tweaked and there would be plenty on here who have done a lot of work to their 4.2's and love them.

Just my thoughts.

[poindexter]

Honestly, considering the cost involved, I'd stick with the ZD30 CRD, and look at enhancing it.
Emissions will be the killer for any conversion, and it will cost you plenty of money.
BenK is right about the 6.5, I have owned one, and it sounded awesome.
If anything, I'd do a 1HD-FTE conversion, but have not heard of anyone doing into a Patrol.

[mudski]

If anything, I'd do a 1HD-FTE conversion, but have not heard of anyone doing into a Patrol.
Wash your mouth out and get rid of those impure thoughts...

[Rumcajs]

Wut? Have spare cash to trow at Patrol? Than go out the ultimate conversion Dmax 6.6 L with 6 speed Allison its just lousy 50K. I'd still try real engine like Cummins ISB 5.9 L ==>


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-n8KE2Gh0L8

[Rumcajs]

Honestly, considering the cost involved, I'd stick with the ZD30 CRD, and look at enhancing it.
Emissions will be the killer for any conversion, and it will cost you plenty of money.
BenK is right about the 6.5, I have owned one, and it sounded awesome.
If anything, I'd do a 1HD-FTE conversion, but have not heard of anyone doing into a Patrol.

Actually, it has been done. ==>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=vG42fxl8nRg Toyssan, LOL.

[happygu]

Dennis,

I am still surprised that so many agree to keep the 3 Litre CRD - I thought it would end up the other way.

This is the way I see it.....

On a newer vehicle, the standard engine even with modifications has better resale value, or putting it another way, has more potential buyers. ( I was offered 1,000 dollars more on trade in to rip out 20k worth of bits and put the standard bits back in ), and is easier for parts and maintenance.

As the vehicle gets older, the price comes down, and you get a larger range of less fussy buyers.

Mic

[Clunk]

I'd buy a 4.8 and with the money I saved on the purchase price, I'd buy a tanker to follow me round :D

[FNQGU]

Honestly, considering the cost involved, I'd stick with the ZD30 CRD, and look at enhancing it.

If anything, I'd do a 1HD-FTE conversion, but have not heard of anyone doing into a Patrol.

Cost is a BIG consideration and is a very personal thing. My truck was previously a 2.8, but I picked it up for a song after it had blown the motor somehow. I also wanted to keep the truck as simple as possible, with less electronic reliance being better than more. I gave serious consideration to a simpler GQ for these reasons as well, although found the GU more comfortable and drivable on long runs. Most of these conversions are done by people who really need/want something better than the 3.0ltr modest performance when towing. I work with a few American diesel engine mechanics and performance nuts, and the version of the 6.5 Chev that is out now (the Optimizer), is one that they all confirmed was a reliable motor that had its issues fixed. Most said it would do 500,000 miles easily, and likely do a million miles if looked after. They all also loved the Duramax 6.6, but for me, the installation is a big deal and with all the computer stuff and custom harnesses etc., it put me back to where I was limited in what I could do to it myself, thus defeating some of my reasoning.

The 1HD-FTE is certainly a fantastic engine (heresy for some, I know, but it is a fact), and conversions into Patrols have been done, but with some compatibility issues as I understand it.

My thought process was to firstly consider upgrades to the ZD30, then I moved to look at transplanting in a 4.2 and again upgrading it, then the Chev 6.5TD. The Cummins (great engine) is very heavy and pricey and I could not find anyone who was installing them, and the Duramax was at that stage still being played with by people like Heath, and it was a complex install with complex wiring mods and computer stuff that confused someone with a simple brain like myself. When I did mine, the new P400 version wasn't available, and I'd have to check the specs and find out what makes it 'high performance', but it sounds interesting.

If you are using the vehicle as a daily driver, doing some highway runs and the odd weekend camping, then I'd advise you to think seriously about whether you want to spend the cash on a conversion. The 3.0litre engines do that sort of stuff very well.

Towing a heavy van or boat and doing long highway runs, plus a lot of rough stuff whilst carrying all the gear…that is where the conversions will come into the equation in my opinion.

There is some good advice on the Bullet Diesel website for people considering the conversion. They also state: "If things are done correctly, the 6.5 Litre Diesel engine, is one of the most reliable and durable engines available for use in the harsh conditions that the Australian Outback can throw at us."

[nissannewby]

Cost is a BIG consideration and is a very personal thing. My truck was previously a 2.8, but I picked it up for a song after it had blown the motor somehow. I also wanted to keep the truck as simple as possible, with less electronic reliance being better than more. I gave serious consideration to a simpler GQ for these reasons as well, although found the GU more comfortable and drivable on long runs. Most of these conversions are done by people who really need/want something better than the 3.0ltr modest performance when towing. I work with a few American diesel engine mechanics and performance nuts, and the version of the 6.5 Chev that is out now (the Optimizer), is one that they all confirmed was a reliable motor that had its issues fixed. Most said it would do 500,000 miles easily, and likely do a million miles if looked after. They all also loved the Duramax 6.6, but for me, the installation is a big deal and with all the computer stuff and custom harnesses etc., it put me back to where I was limited in what I could do to it myself, thus defeating some of my reasoning.

The 1HD-FTE is certainly a fantastic engine (heresy for some, I know, but it is a fact), and conversions into Patrols have been done, but with some compatibility issues as I understand it.

My thought process was to firstly consider upgrades to the ZD30, then I moved to look at transplanting in a 4.2 and again upgrading it, then the Chev 6.5TD. The Cummins (great engine) is very heavy and pricey and I could not find anyone who was installing them, and the Duramax was at that stage still being played with by people like Heath, and it was a complex install with complex wiring mods and computer stuff that confused someone with a simple brain like myself. When I did mine, the new P400 version wasn't available, and I'd have to check the specs and find out what makes it 'high performance', but it sounds interesting.

If you are using the vehicle as a daily driver, doing some highway runs and the odd weekend camping, then I'd advise you to think seriously about whether you want to spend the cash on a conversion. The 3.0litre engines do that sort of stuff very well.

Towing a heavy van or boat and doing long highway runs, plus a lot of rough stuff whilst carrying all the gear…that is where the conversions will come into the equation in my opinion.

There is some good advice on the Bullet Diesel website for people considering the conversion. They also state: "If things are done correctly, the 6.5 Litre Diesel engine, is one of the most reliable and durable engines available for use in the harsh conditions that the Australian Outback can throw at us."

These are all very good points. And yes then engine is robust and reliable because of its utmost simplicity, and like a td42 is most reliable when left alone.. They are a converted petrol engine. A TD42 will do the same sort of miles if looked after before requiring a rebuild. The cost thing does annoy me a little in the fact it is to high, then engine and transmission combo (if using the 4l80e) they are probably getting for sub 10k. There is stuff all wiring on the mechanical versions and there are adaptors readily available for the 4l80 transmissions as these are the same for the LS conversions. 20k would be a more realistic changeover price with the amount they do it should be pretty straight forward. The duramax conversion can be had for around the 40k mark now, the cost is a little easier to justify due to the cost of the engine and then to do it properly the use of the Allison transmission. The duramax being common rail is an awesome donk that out performs any Nissan donk and craps all over the 6.5 in power and torque.


A lot of people seem willing to bag the 6.5, and I assume their comments are all based on their own personal experience, not hearsay, but don't write them off until you've tried one. A 3.0 with more torque?

You would assume correctly here. I rebuild the engines (6.2, 6.5), also repair them in the vehicle, this includes injector pump, injectors, even vac pump deletes to get rid of the terrible vacuum operated wastegate (on the electronic IP engines). I have driven them in what they came out in (GMC, chev). You are right about the torque curve, the 6.5 has a very early peak torque but it is very short, realistically they don't need to driven past 2500rpm very often. The 3.0 yes the torque is later in the rev range but it is a little broader. The 3.0 has very much the same torque as the NA 6.5.

[FNQGU]

Good comments mate, always good to get rounded and experienced feedback for those making decisions.

Yes, the torque curve of the 6.5 is very short, which is noticeable if you want to really get up it or want to do high speeds. These engines will tow all day, but don't want to race or rev out much past that 2500rpm mark. Good point.

I'm not convinced however that the 6.5 Chev is a 'bad' engine, and think it should still be in the mix for those considering conversions for their own needs.

What I am really looking forward to is seeing the supposed new Nissan Diesel that hasn't yet made it to Aussie shores. That might be when I decide to upgrade...

[nissannewby]

. I'm not convinced however that the 6.5 Chev is a 'bad' engine, and think it should still be in the mix for those considering conversions for their own needs.


I probably should have worded my first response a little different. They aren't a "bad" engine, its the conversion that I don't really agree with well more so the cost. The engine itself has been around since the 40's which speaks for itself, but for the money certain companies are charging its a little over the top. Im not saying you have wasted your money or anything like that, and as you stated the cost is a very personal thing, but I think it would be a much more viable option for people if it was closer to 20k. You can get a LS dropped in drive in drive out for around the 25k mark and its got a lot more wiring involved than the old diesel, they use the same trans so why isn't the 6.5 closer to this price or less?

[gaddy]

Probably a dumb question
But would the suspension mounting points and shock towers cope with the weight I just googled 330kg wet add a steel bar and winch , thats some serious weight up front

[FNQGU]

I probably should have worded my first response a little different. They aren't a "bad" engine, its the conversion that I don't really agree with well more so the cost. ... think it would be a much more viable option for people if it was closer to 20k. You can get a LS dropped in drive in drive out for around the 25k mark and its got a lot more wiring involved than the old diesel, they use the same trans so why isn't the 6.5 closer to this price or less?

I couldn't agree with you more on that. It was a difficult decision to spend the cash and probably not justified in the minds of the vast majority. The conversion does however come with a list of extras, as per the list on say the Brunswick Diesel web site, and for mine it included upgraded suspension, and quite a bit of extra work that was timely to do while things were all off, or out of the engine bay and front diff. I also got my 99 model at a bargain basement price, which helped my personal decision.

If I was the proud owner of a much later model vehicle that I'd paid over $30K for, it would have been a harder decision as the total costs go up accordingly.

If for arguments sake we took conversion costs out of the equation, and we all had a choice of what engine we could put in it for our individual needs, it would make for some interesting comparisons. Would anyone on the forum choose the 3.0litre ZD30 or even the CRD30? Quite likely really, as they are a dynamic little donk that does quite a lot for the cubic inch capacity. I bet many wouldn't though...

For me, I particularly like the torque of the Chev, but would like the higher top speed and revving abilities of the 3.0l or the 4.2l. Everything is a compromise.

Gaddy - I'm not sure, but was told the stock setup was a tough one and handles the weight no worries. I'm not an expert though.