She's still wobbling

[Gq turbo]

Hi ppl I've read heaps on this forum about patrol wobbles I have recently redone all front end bearings swivel,wheel bearings,seals etc also put brand new tough dog panhard new adjustable drag link new rtc steering dampner new tie rods for the track rod and it still has the wobbles,no where near as bad but it happens around 60-80kmh and sometimes it's worse than other times very frustrated ATM I have noticed there's no balance weights on hrs front wheel could this be the problem?help would be appreciated cheers

[lhurley]

It can be a problem yes. Get a good balance, it should make a world of difference, its what causes my wobbles

[megatexture]

Yep it won't take much to put a tyre out of balance, sometimes just mud or sand stuck on the inside of a rim will do it, or a thrown weight.

[Dhuck]

How is you steering box and radius arm bush's

[BigRAWesty]

And to be a pain sometimes the wobbles come from worn bushes in the rear..

[Parksy]

You can adjust the 'slop' in the steering box, if it has any.

[P4trol]

Where? (I'm interested)

[NP99]

Radius arm bushes x 2

[MudRunnerTD]

Wheel balance is the first thing on your list mate.

[BillsGU]

Make sure you get them balanced by someone that does a lot of 4WD tyres. Some tyre retailers do not have a balance machine that is optimal for wide and heavy 4WD tyres. They are great for normal passenger car tyres but do not balance 4WD tyres properly.

[Parksy]

Where? (I'm interested)

There's a jamnut with a small screw through the center on the steering box. Only needs minor adjustments(quarter turns at a time), but only if your steering box has excessive movement or is making clunking noises.

[Gq turbo]

Yeah thanks for quick reply everything is done in the front end no steering box slop it's in having wheel balance ATM will let you know how it goes

[Jimbo65]

Gidday GQ, I'm experiencing the same but at 90km. This all started after putting new rubber all round & getting new fr whl brgs. Have had the wheels balanced 6 times thinking it may have been a bad batch but since then have swapped wheels with another trol who doesn't have any issues but problem still there. Have had the wheel brgs checked along with swivel hub brgs & no issues there so am about to fit a Tough Dog RTS damper & am crossing fingers that this fixes it but in another thread a while back I was informed by Westy that it may have the death wobbles which as you can imagine didn't fill me with too much joy. Have heard that some people spend $$$$'s on changing things only for it to still happen. I would be very interested in your findings & good luck, know I could do with some.:)

[BigRAWesty]

Gidday GQ, I'm experiencing the same but at 90km. This all started after putting new rubber all round & getting new fr whl brgs. Have had the wheels balanced 6 times thinking it may have been a bad batch but since then have swapped wheels with another trol who doesn't have any issues but problem still there. Have had the wheel brgs checked along with swivel hub brgs & no issues there so am about to fit a Tough Dog RTS damper & am crossing fingers that this fixes it but in another thread a while back I was informed by Westy that it may have the death wobbles which as you can imagine didn't fill me with too much joy. Have heard that some people spend $$$$'s on changing things only for it to still happen. I would be very interested in your findings & good luck, know I could do with some.:)

Rts dampeners just mask issues.
You ideally shouldn't need one.
If your 100% happy the front is fine then start on the rear as the rear does push And has been documented as sometimes being the issue.
Start with panhard rod bushes.

But I'm also assuming that each wheel balance you've done there have been a couple of alignments also??

[Clunk]

is it a steering wheel wobble you feel or visibly see or a vibration through the car that you feel?

[happygu]

All Patrols will have a little wobble through the steering wheel - especially when you take your hands off it .....

If the whole car is vibrating, then that is a different story

Mic

[kevin07]

what sort of tyres do you have have you been rotating them lift the car off the ground and spin the wheels rim or rims could be buckled especially if they are original,as they are getting old

[Xfactor]

Get them balanced ON car
Cheers

[Jimbo65]

Before new rubber ( Yoki Geos A/T-S) & fr whl brgs there were no issues, but since...well fair to say it's p*ssed me off no end. Wobble felt thru & visible on strg whl only. Speaking to my old man who has owned early landy's & Jeeps reckons to remove a shim from the swivel hubs thus altering the pre load on the brgs?? All comments thus far received have all been in good gesture for which I am thankful but what has got me stuffed is why why has all this started since getting new rubber & whl brgs....something has obviously changed in the set up/dynamics. The joys huh. Will let you know once RTS damper is fitted.

[BigRAWesty]

Before new rubber ( Yoki Geos A/T-S) & fr whl brgs there were no issues, but since...well fair to say it's p*ssed me off no end. Wobble felt thru & visible on strg whl only. Speaking to my old man who has owned early landy's & Jeeps reckons to remove a shim from the swivel hubs thus altering the pre load on the brgs?? All comments thus far received have all been in good gesture for which I am thankful but what has got me stuffed is why why has all this started since getting new rubber & whl brgs....something has obviously changed in the set up/dynamics. The joys huh. Will let you know once RTS damper is fitted.

If it's not to late have a search here for RTS dampeners.
Majority dislike them and have put the extra coin towards adjustable dampeners.

In short yes you can remove the shims to increase the preloading on the swivel bearings, but you risk failure earlier of the bearings.
If removing the shims helps, I'd be ordering a set of New bearings and replacing them.

Quick question, did you fit genuine bushes or aftermarket?

[kevin07]

Before new rubber ( Yoki Geos A/T-S) & fr whl brgs there were no issues, but since...well fair to say it's p*ssed me off no end. Wobble felt thru & visible on strg whl only. Speaking to my old man who has owned early landy's & Jeeps reckons to remove a shim from the swivel hubs thus altering the pre load on the brgs?? All comments thus far received have all been in good gesture for which I am thankful but what has got me stuffed is why why has all this started since getting new rubber & whl brgs....something has obviously changed in the set up/dynamics. The joys huh. Will let you know once RTS damper is fitted.

changing rims front to back can cause issues if they are buckled

[Jimbo65]

Hey Westy, no bushes have been changed as yet....bushes on fr suspension are Nolathane & seem relatively new but who knows. Rubber I was referring to was tyres. Will let you know about RTS as it arrived this morning so will bite the bullet & fit it. Landcruiser Park this w/end so we'll see what happens.

[mudnut]

I have read somewhere that rims with a deeper offset can help control the wobbles by putting a bit more pressure on the swivel bearings. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

[Gq turbo]

Ok I have had the wheels balanced and thought it was fixed but today out of the blue she wobbled like hell again at about 70kmh the place that did my swivel hub bearings said they didn't have to use shims in swivel hub caps is this normal?? I'm really starting to get annoyed now as I'm not sure what to do now and yes it has rtc dampner on it and I've spent lots of coin replacing everything surely someone can help me solve this cheers

[Gq turbo]

Also my rims are huge offset neg 44 I've been told but it shouldn't have anything to do with it because they have been on there from day 1 with no trouble

[BigRAWesty]

If you have not replaced bushes I'd start with both panhard rods.
Nolothane have some not so good reports of prem wear.
Genuine bushes are the go.

You say the hub bearings got done, what about wheel bearings??
If not then try tightening them a little..

[Gq turbo]

It has brand new toughdog panhards all bearings were done swivel and wheel bearings a week and a half ago

[Gq turbo]

Also as I said it has a new adjustable drag link wheel alignment just done I'm running outa things to do:/ anymore ideas??? I'm at a loss

[Ben-e-boy]

Ok I have had the wheels balanced and thought it was fixed but today out of the blue she wobbled like hell again at about 70kmh the place that did my swivel hub bearings said they didn't have to use shims in swivel hub caps is this normal?? I'm really starting to get annoyed now as I'm not sure what to do now and yes it has rtc dampner on it and I've spent lots of coin replacing everything surely someone can help me solve this cheers


Also my rims are huge offset neg 44 I've been told but it shouldn't have anything to do with it because they have been on there from day 1 with no trouble

Not having shims in the swivel hub bearings will put more preload on the bearing, so it is less likely to cause this.

I used to run rims with -44, I also put more preload on the wheel bearings to keep the wobbles in check, the downside is the more preload, more heat, shorter bearing lifespan. But there is a fair bit of extra weight the wheel bearing has to endure

Replacing bushes has been mentioned many times.
There is a big difference between bushes that "seem" ok and bushes that are ok. The crush tube in Nolathane bushes will pull away from the bush and it will slop around in there. Flex it up and see if the crush tube is pulling away from the bush

[threedogs]

As a last resort throw some balance beads into the tyre,
but first I'd be jacking a front wheel off the ground and making sure bearings are tight.

Can you try with another rim/tyre combo??

[BigRAWesty]

It has brand new toughdog panhards all bearings were done swivel and wheel bearings a week and a half ago

Sorry, missed that bit.
How are the rear bushes? As mentioned your car is being pushed so any movement from the rear will cause issues.

Another thing and it sounds crazy but have you tried different Tyre places?
Diffrent places, different techniques and some have reported of vast differences with mechanics in the same town..

It can be a pain mate. Hang in there, we'll get ya rolling straight..
If you can maybe worth going over all bolts yourself as New things take time to seat and sometimes will shrink or move.

Did you have issues before fitting adjustable panhard rods?.

[philfree]

i had a very similar issue i changed bearings bushes and the steering rods but still couldn't find it lots of wheel balancing from various shops still no good and it only happned randomly around 70-90ks mainly after the new tyres but was their a little before i had it to a few mechanics couldn't find a fault the tyre shop blamed the car in the end i give up untill recently when i swaped the front and rear wheels over and it's pretty much gone back to the way it used to be before i put the tyres on. they were yoki at-s

[Gq turbo]

Thanks it had no issues for years then it started wobbling so I started off buying adj front and rear panhards and drag link also rtc damper but it still did it so then had all swivel and wheel bearings replaced I have tried tightning all bolts to no avail someone told me the rtc toughdog damper is not for a 4inch lift and I needed the bigger version???? Also does the rtc exaggerate the wheel wobble??? Also my rig has spent time sitting on and of with flat tyres could this ruin the tyres?? The wobble doesn't always happen but when it does the car is uncontrollable it shakes so violently

[threedogs]

that sounds like a serious safety issue to me

[BigRAWesty]

Flat spots wouldn't be helping for sure.
Are you running 40psi??

Have you changed drag Rod ends??
With the bigger offset if could be exaggerating a small amount of slop.

What speeds are the wobbles starting?

Lift shouldn't a dampener. It still travels the same.
An RTC dampener do help with the wobbles, as I mentioned they mask issues.
Most like adjustable dampeners over rtc's as the rtc make steering heavy..

Tbh, I'd start looking at the rear to.
You have done panhard rods, (how many k's ago??) so move onto the upper and lower arms.
Use genuine rubber.
If you haven't got modded arms yet now may be the time to grab adjustable uppers, or longer lower arms.

[fxst78]

I had the 80-100km/h wobbles and tried all the usual things. In the end I went to a truck alignment place (Queanbeyan truck align) and they fitted an "offset knuckle bearing castor correction kit" (or something like that) fixed it. 10,000 km on and it is still good.

[Gq turbo]

Cheers yea it has a brand new adjustable drag link all parts have travelled less than 60ks the wobbles are between 60/80kmh

[Gq turbo]

"offset knuckle bearing castor correction kit" (or something like that) fixed it. 10,000 km on and it is still good.[/QUOTE]

What is this? I have castor correction plates

[Ben-e-boy]

"offset knuckle bearing castor correction kit" (or something like that) fixed it. 10,000 km on and it is still good.

What is this? I have castor correction plates[/QUOTE]

The swivel hub bearing is offset shifting the hub only. I dont think they are needed, castor can be corrected.

Did the tyre shop tell you what castor you are actually running?

[nissannewby]

I had a similar issue once, for me it ended up being the lock nut for the front adjustable panhard. Tightened her right up and all good.

[Gq turbo]

Oh yeah I no all about that the swivel hubs are all good and it's been running the same castor plates for years so I'm sure that has nothing to do with it I'm going to try my mates tyres tomorrow and see what happens I will post the out come tomorrow

[Gq turbo]

I also had this death wobble problem years ago on my mk patrol shorty but I'm not sure what actually fixed it because I put new springs shocks and replaced the whole front diff and also ran 34x11.5 simex jungle Trekkers and did it all at once so not sure what actually fixed it lol

[Gq turbo]

I had a similar issue once, for me it ended up being the lock nut for the front adjustable panhard. Tightened her right up and all good.

Yea I also tried that but it was tight :(

[Ben-e-boy]

Yea I also tried that but it was tight :(
Have you pulled the radius arms off and checked that the holes on the diff mount are not elongated

The wobbles on your old patrol would have been caused by the locator spiggott on the leaf springs snapping.

[Gq turbo]

Have you pulled the radius arms off and checked that the holes on the diff mount are not elongated

The wobbles on your old patrol would have been caused by the locator spiggott on the leaf springs snapping.

Yeah ok cool I will change tyres tomorrow if still no go i will pull radius arms out but I'd rather replace them with super flex arms I guess while there out

[BigRAWesty]

Yeah ok cool I will change tyres tomorrow if still no go i will pull radius arms out but I'd rather replace them with super flex arms I guess while there out

There is a point of no return for things like the wobbles as your building an off road truck, not on road.

[Gq turbo]

There is a point of no return for things like the wobbles as your building an off road truck, not on road.

Yeah I guess but it was never wobbling and then it started with no other modifications so I don't understand why it hasn't rectified itself after everything that's been replaced it used to drive a1 with not a wobble insight.i just want it to go back to being the way it was so at least driving it to the bush is safe because ATM it's dangerous

[Ben-e-boy]

There is a point of no return for things like the wobbles as your building an off road truck, not on road.

No there isnt. The wobbles can be fixed no matter how "offroad" it is built.

[BigRAWesty]

No there isnt. The wobbles can be fixed no matter how "offroad" it is built.

Yes, but the further you mod the more spot on everything else has to be..

As for it never use to do it, guessing you mean before the 4" lift..

[Gq turbo]

Yes, but the further you mod the more spot on everything else has to be..

As for it never use to do it, guessing you mean before the 4" lift..

No it's always had the 4inch lift and has driven better than some lifted gq's I've been in I always knew the lift had nothing to do with it anyway put my mates si exes on the front today and she drove perfect!!! So I know now it's the tyres even tho the tyres are only worn 15%\20% at most they must be out of round thanks for everyone's input cheers also they are buckshots muddy and they are prone for causing front end dramas from the research I've done if simexes don't play up shows how crap buckshots are then lol

[BigRAWesty]

Good out come.
Was your mate's wheels -44 offset aswell??

[MudRunnerTD]

I had the 80-100km/h wobbles and tried all the usual things. In the end I went to a truck alignment place (Queanbeyan truck align) and they fitted an "offset knuckle bearing castor correction kit" (or something like that) fixed it. 10,000 km on and it is still good.

What you had fitted was an Offset Camber king pin bearing race on the left front side. I have this mod on my GUIV and rate it. Note though that it fixed a front end wobble but you must keep the tyre rotations up or you will scrub out the front tyres. Rotate at 10,000 max if you can. If you run directional tyres then you need to pay to have the tyres stripped and swapped sides at 20,000. Do it or expect your tyres to be shagged earlier than expected.

[Barney 338]

They do that . My 88 gq was bad for it . I replace the tie rod ends , panard bushes ,castor bushes , mushroom bushes and had the steering box tightened up followed by a wheel alignment / balance and never had an issue again.

[kevin07]

ive seen this time and time again car starts wobbling for no apparent reason everyone goes mental checking this changing that and its always tyre or rim related maybe a mod could make this a sticky check your tyres first before spending up.kev ps check out post 17 on this subject a lot of pain could have been saved

[BigRAWesty]

ive seen this time and time again car starts wobbling for no apparent reason everyone goes mental checking this changing that and its always tyre or rim related maybe a mod could make this a sticky check your tyres first before spending up.kev ps check out post 17 on this subject a lot of pain could have been saved

Does help when you have all information..
If it was mentioned that wobbles started after fitting new rubber then it would have been fixed On first page..

[macca]

If it was mentioned that wobbles started after fitting new rubber then it would have been fixed On first page..

Have a look at post 19 Kallen :oops: not the op

I didn't twig either

[MudRunnerTD]

I don't think anyone missed anything in this thread. The guy with the new tyres was not the OP and should be considered on his own.

The OP had spent considerable money chasing his tail before he even posted this thread. He had not even had a wheel balance but had spent big coin on other things.

This is a good outcome and I think the forum did a good job of pointing him in the right direction.

[Gq turbo]

Yes many thanks to everyone the stuff I replaced really needed replacing anyway so I'm glad I did it but yes first point is to try different tyres and no my mates tyres were not -44 but my car has always had them so once again I knew that had nothing to do with the wobbles the tyres I put on we're unbalanced simexes and had not one wobble so buckshots must b terrible lol once again thanks to all

[BigRAWesty]

Yes many thanks to everyone the stuff I replaced really needed replacing anyway so I'm glad I did it but yes first point is to try different tyres and no my mates tyres were not -44 but my car has always had them so once again I knew that had nothing to do with the wobbles the tyres I put on we're unbalanced simexes and had not one wobble so buckshots must b terrible lol once again thanks to all

Will remember that.. See a few other cars with buck shots so maybe a couple of bad ones..
Anyway, enjoy the ride.. :D

[threedogs]

Maybe you can get new tyres, My Motorway Mongrels delaminated in the tread area not that you would notice.
but get up to speed and it was all over the place.