Slow drain, how to solve?

[AB]

Ok, electrical nuff nuff speaking!

I have a slow battery drain somewhere so how do I isolate it to find the problem?

Could it be the pyro gauge as I did run one of the cables direct to crank battery which I assume is to run the gauge?

Could it be leaking from there?

I'm really lost in how to even start looking?

Cranking has cb, winch, pyro, feed to piranha system, led bar, and then standard nissan factory feeds.

[04OFF]

Take off your negative battery terminal, put a 12v test light (or a 12v bulb on wires) in between the now removed terminal , and the battery terminal, all the power now travels through the bulb, the small current draw will illuminate the bulb a little.

Now pull your fuses one by one, and watch the bulb, when it goes out after you pull a fuse, you know what curcuit is causing the draw, this should help narrow down the problem for you.

[AB]

Take off your negative battery terminal, put a 12v test light (or a 12v bulb on wires) in between the now removed terminal , and the battery terminal, all the power now travels through the bulb, the small current draw will illuminate the bulb a little.

Now pull your fuses one by one, and watch the bulb, when it goes out after you pull a fuse, you know what curcuit is causing the draw, this should help narrow down the problem for you.

Gold!!!

And simple to test...lol....Thank you mate!!!

[BigRAWesty]

Earth cable to earth terminal so when you pull the fuse you break the circuit.
Your just shorting to the chassis atm..

[AB]

Shouldn't do this when I'm drinking..lol

Same result as above photo

[AB]

So this confirms a leak yes?

[04OFF]

Earth cable to earth terminal so when you pull the fuse you break the circuit.
Your just shorting to the chassis atm..

Exactly.

If you have a second battery , i would disconnect it, to remove any chance of confusion.

Then test second battery the same way, while starter battery is disconnected.

[AB]

Photo updated

37207

[93patrol]

You'll know what still drawing power so you can stop it

[04OFF]

Photo updated

37207

If its that bright, thats a HUGE leak !

Overnighter by the looks ?

[04OFF]

Your still NOT putting test light clam on earth terminal of battery ?

[04OFF]

One side of test light on battery earth, the other side on the earth terminal you just removed

[AB]

If its that bright, thats a HUGE leak !

Overnighter by the looks ?

Its about 1.5 weeks left untouched. I just leave it on charge in the carport now.

I do have very thick cable from the deep cycle going to the rear so ill isolate the deep cycle tomorrow to see if that side of it us causing the issues.

Thanks for the help gents, stay tuned.

[trekster]

You appear to have some sort of small ufo residing in your engine bay AB, best to remove it for starters!!!!


On an entirely different subject AB, I saw on facebook today 4wd tv was posting a link to your new website :)

Just letting you know I saw it!


Cheers,
Eric.

[AB]

One side of test light on battery earth, the other side on the earth terminal you just removed

Nothing....

37210

[AB]

You appear to have some sort of small ufo residing in your engine bay AB, best to remove it for starters!!!!


On an entirely different subject AB, I saw on facebook today 4wd tv was posting a link to your new website :)

Just letting you know I saw it!


Cheers,
Eric.

Thanks mate yeah he was very generous to do that, helped me a lot!!!

[04OFF]

Nothing....

37210

mmm, mate im not sure, but looks like a LED test light ?, perhaps it may be ON/OFF with a solid 12V only, i normally would use a "bulb" test light, these will emit a small visual glow, even if only a few volts are getting drawn.

[AB]

37211

Nah this old bulb tester...

The plot thickens...lol

[04OFF]

Maybe pull your interior light festoon bulb out, and whack that in between, that will tell you straight away ?

[04OFF]

I got nuffin then..................RODNEY !

[AB]

No stress mate thanks for your help though.

If I leave the car for a week it definitely drops that's all.

[AB]

Maybe pull your interior light festoon bulb out, and whack that in between, that will tell you straight away ?

I've got kelvins led lights inside but I did notice there was a very faint glow when left them on door switch so I always leave them on off.

[04OFF]

Looking back at the pic, is that a small glow from the test light, of just from the flash ?

[AB]

Looking back at the pic, is that a small glow from the test light, of just from the flash ?

Nah flash, it's pitch black here under the bonnet and 100% no glow at all. Strange...

[04OFF]

Are you sure your battery is just not holding charge ?

How are you judging the loss ?

[AB]

Just carefully looked again nothing.

Ill try the deep cycle tomorrow. Possibly draining from there and somehow sucking from the piranha system which it shouldn't do of course but you never know.

[AB]

Are you sure your battery is just not holding charge ?

How are you judging the loss ?

Volts are down and engine cranks over a bit slower than normal of left.

Definetely could be holding charge issues. It's a fairly new battery but my alternator died in south aus a couple of years ago and I drained it down to 4 volts coming home.

That sounds more like it mate!

[04OFF]

Are you are talking piranha car alarm system ?

[AB]

Are you are talking piranha car alarm system ?

No, duel bat manager...

37212

[AB]

I think your on the money with holding charge...

[AB]

Ill take it off charge and report back with voltage drop next week to see if that helps.

[04OFF]

Why not dis connect your battery, and test voltage, leave it disconnected for a few days (or as long as you can) then test voltage before you hook it back up , this may give you a indication if its dissipating charge all by itself ?

Running down to 4 volts sounds like it would permanently hurt a 12V battery to be honest mate , but Rodney would know for sure.

[04OFF]

Ill take it off charge and report back with voltage drop next week to see if that helps.

Beat me to it (lol)

[AB]

Why not dis connect your battery, and test voltage, leave it disconnected for a few days (or as long as you can) then test voltage before you hook it back up , this may give you a indication if its dissipating charge all by itself ?

Running down to 4 volts sounds like it would permanently hurt a 12V battery to be honest mate , but Rodney would know for sure.

Cheers bud ill do that.

Yeah it was a shit drive home from sa.

I had to turn all accessories off and coming into Melbourne my dash indicators wouldn't even work.

My fault, no alternator from mud and I just didn't stop the whole trip home....just wanted to get home to see the family before dark as I had no lights.

[04OFF]

GUs dont have this problem Ya know ...............Bwhahhahahahhhah !

[04OFF]

Sorry, too much bourbon, had to slip that in (lol)

[AB]

GUs dont have this problem Ya know ...............Bwhahhahahahhhah !

If it was petrol you would be roooooted!!!

God bless the diesel!!

[04OFF]

If it was petrol, no way could you afford to get to SA in the first place !

[Winnie]

I had similar problem Andy. Was the alternator.

[AB]

I had similar problem Andy. Was the alternator.

Don't tell me that, Ive gone through 2 in the last 2 years and this is the third one....Pretty much brand new!!!

[Winnie]

Just saying what my problem was... Went through 2 week of parking at work and disconnected the battery. Took it to 2 auto elecs on the area who could not be effed, both said it was something after market. Changed the alternator for the PATROLAPART 120A job and haven't looked back

[Yendor]

Photo updated

37207

In this photo your test light is running from your second battery, main battery negative is disconnected. I assume the engine isn't running, so either the dual battery system is wired incorrectly or the state of charge of the second battery is high enough to keep the piranha system engaged.

Either way this will affect the results in post 15. Electricity will take the path of least resistance, so current will flow from the second battery instead of through the test light connected to the main battery.

Did you disconnect the second battery as Steve suggested?

If it takes 1.5 weeks for the battery to go flat you are looking at a minor draw or a faulty battery, a faulty alternator will normally drain the battery overnight.

Pyro gauge should be connected to ignition not battery. Does the pyro keep reading when you turn the ignition off or drop straight down?

You really need to use an ammeter and measure how much current is being drawn from the main battery while the vehicle is sitting or leave the battery disconnected for a week or so and then see how it starts.

[AB]

Thanks for your help Rodney, I'm out at the moment but ill get back to you soon mate.

[daz172]

Hey mate I'm not sure if this going to help or not , but I've just had the exact same prob in my truck and not long after fitting new pyro and boost gage that was directly connected to crank battery. It wasn't loosing that much power but enough too, after leaving for a nite then trying to restart next morning was boarder line having enough power to crank after heating glow plugs. I have dual battery monitor so could see was coming from crank battery, As id just renewed my auxiliary battery, I new it had to b something from that battery, after a lot of chasing around And knowing the wiring all good after checking I thought to myself, that battery is old and it could b the battery not holding charge , so I've just replaced that battery and everything is looking good so far. So mayby if everything is wired on good and everything mayb look at the health of the battery ??? I kept getting mine tested but that would b after a good drive as I had to drive there but it tested fine everytime, a little week but good enough so I determined the prob it just wasn't holding it's charge I don't know if this will help at all , hopefully it will good luck

[AB]

Hey mate I'm not sure if this going to help or not , but I've just had the exact same prob in my truck and not long after fitting new pyro and boost gage that was directly connected to crank battery. It wasn't loosing that much power but enough too, after leaving for a nite then trying to restart next morning was boarder line having enough power to crank after heating glow plugs. I have dual battery monitor so could see was coming from crank battery, As id just renewed my auxiliary battery, I new it had to b something from that battery, after a lot of chasing around And knowing the wiring all good after checking I thought to myself, that battery is old and it could b the battery not holding charge , so I've just replaced that battery and everything is looking good so far. So mayby if everything is wired on good and everything mayb look at the health of the battery ??? I kept getting mine tested but that would b after a good drive as I had to drive there but it tested fine everytime, a little week but good enough so I determined the prob it just wasn't holding it's charge I don't know if this will help at all , hopefully it will good luck

Sounds exactly like my problem mate and I have treated my battery like poo...lol

I will get back to Yendor with his solid advice first but yeah I am also thinking the battery may be not holding charge after 2 years of abuse unfortunately.

[daz172]

Yeh I had treated my batteries like poo lol they had a very hard life hehe

[megatexture]

Take the battery to an auto sparky or battery world and get it load tested

[AB]

In this photo your test light is running from your second battery, main battery negative is disconnected. I assume the engine isn't running, so either the dual battery system is wired incorrectly or the state of charge of the second battery is high enough to keep the piranha system engaged.

Either way this will affect the results in post 15. Electricity will take the path of least resistance, so current will flow from the second battery instead of through the test light connected to the main battery.

Did you disconnect the second battery as Steve suggested?

If it takes 1.5 weeks for the battery to go flat you are looking at a minor draw or a faulty battery, a faulty alternator will normally drain the battery overnight.

Pyro gauge should be connected to ignition not battery. Does the pyro keep reading when you turn the ignition off or drop straight down?

You really need to use an ammeter and measure how much current is being drawn from the main battery while the vehicle is sitting or leave the battery disconnected for a week or so and then see how it starts.

Hey mate, didn't get a chance today to look at this, just got back now.


so either the dual battery system is wired incorrectly or the state of charge of the second battery is high enough to keep the piranha system engaged.
When I took that photo I literally just took off the charger so yes, the state of charge would of being high for sure.


Does the pyro keep reading when you turn the ignition off or drop straight down?
The pyro doesn't drop straight down when ignition off, it keeps reading and drops slowly when engine turned off as it cools.

I'll get back with what Steve said and the measuring the current being drawn, etc.

[Woof]

I was having trouble with mine for months, got RAC around and told me that the battery was stuffed.........new battery in and good ever since

[Yendor]

The pyro doesn't drop straight down when ignition off, it keeps reading and drops slowly when engine turned off as it cools.



That's not going to help.

There will always be some current being drawn while the vehicle is sitting for things like clock, radio memory etc...

It's what the total consumption is you need to know.

Your problem could be due to a faulty battery and/or a higher current draw while the vehicle is sitting plus the vehicle sitting for a week and a half without being started.

The first thing I would do is, measure with an ammeter what the draw is now. Then connect your pyro gauge to an ignition feed, then check was the draw is.

Load testing a battery that is possibly loosing it's charge over a period of time may not necessary pick up a fault. You may need to fully charge the battery and then let it sit for the week and a half disconnected from the vehicle and then load test it.

[threedogs]

When all this is done and dusted if your Patrol is going to be sitting for weeks
on end you might need one of those fold out solar panels {small} just to keep your battery busy and charged

[AB]

Thanks gents.

Sorry Rodney being flat out and haven't even had the chance to do these tests.

Ill get onto it this weekend and report back.

Funny thing is the instructions for the pyro asked to be connected direct to battery too.

[Yendor]

What application was that for.........a plant generator?

Measure the current draw that will tell us.

[AB]

Ok time to get off my ass...lol

Just took it off charge...

Main=13.2

Deep cycle=13.2

Will report back.

[NP99]

Ok time to get off my ass...lol

Just took it off charge...

Main=13.2

Deep cycle=13.2

Will report back.

AB, these pages regarding parasitic draw might help. Cheers

[daz172]

Yeah my pyro and boost gauge have to be connected to battery straight up and also a wire to accessory , as the gauges have an audible alarm and it needs the constant power for the memory for those alarms apparently

[AB]

12 hour report...

Main = 12.85

Deep cycle = 13

[threedogs]

How good is your starter motor??

[AB]

How good is your starter motor??

Perfect, instant start, sounds good!

[AB]

After these tests I'm going to re wire the pyro positive. Looking at this manual it should go to ignition not direct to battery. I can't find the original manual for my one but it obviously it should not be direct.

http://www.autometer.com/download_instruction/0593A.pdf

Does anyone know where I should feed the power for the Pyro on ignition?

[Cuppa]

12 hour report...

Main = 12.85

Deep cycle = 13

Do you have a wet starter & an AGM deep cycle?
I reckon those readings are ok.
You can double check each of them by connecting a small load . eg. A headlamp globe for say, 15 minutes. Whilst connected you should expect the voltage to drop. After disconnecting the load, let the battery sit for at least 30 minutes & then check the voltage again. If it has come back up to 12.7V+ the battery is good & not the problem.

Rewiring the gauges to only be powered once the ignition is on seems like a good idea. Very small current drains add up when occurring 24/7.

Once all that is done & back together, think about buying, borrowing or asking Santa for a clamp meter. They are useful tools to have in your arsenal. Cheap clamp meters available on eBay will be sufficient provided they have a DC current measuring capability ( not all do). With ignition turned off, put clamp meter around one of the battery cables ..... You should get a zero amp reading. Any reading means your search for a phantom drain is not yet over.

Cuppa

[threedogs]

My son is auto lek and asking him about wire going to start battery and his answer was "WHY" ,
My thinking is it would go to ignition as you think , can see why it would need to be live at anytime,
unless it had recall function

[AB]

Crap forgot about this...

Main: 12.7
Deep cycle: 13

[threedogs]

So still good to go eh.

[AB]

So still good to go eh.

Yeah it might of been a lot slower drain than I thought.

My car can sit for a fortnight before I start feeling guilty and take it for drive to keep it chugging along.

[AB]

Crap forgot about this...

Main: 12.7
Deep cycle: 13

Same results today. Not sure what's happening now but seems its not as bad as what I thought.

I won't drive it this week and see how it is come Friday.

After that ill re wire the pyro and most likely that will fix it.

Thanks again for everyone's advice.

[FNQGU]

Just out of interest - what is your crank battery? Some handle minor discharges a lot better than others when sitting for weeks at a time.

I go away for 4 weeks of work at a time, and was experiencing flat batteries when coming back. The drain was the stereo and the immobiliser, and even though it was a very minor drain, which if the vehicle was being used regularly wouldn't have made a difference, 4 weeks would see the battery flat.

I have changed my crank battery recently to an AGM (Optima Blue Top D27, as I had it handy) and am in the process of fitting a BMS to manage my Aux battery (for other reasons), but am looking forward to how it goes handling the minor drain. My reckoning is that it should be fine or at least a whole lot better. The previous battery was an Optima Red Top, which while it is a fantastic crank battery, it had virtually no capacity to handle a constant load, even if minor, over any period of time.

[AB]

Sorry Cuppa and Ben, missed this post...

My cranking is

http://piranhaoffroad.com.au/library/product/sm/n50zzlmf.jpg
N50ZZLMF 600CCA


Size (mm) 261x173x225
Size Code 10
Weight (kg) 19.8
CCA 600
Delivering high cranking power for quick starts. Superior vibration resistance for extra long life.

No-Vibe Anchor bonding
High perfomance starting power
High reserve capacity
Maintenance accessible Easyfill vents
Sure-grip carry handles and Durable polypropylene cover





Deep Cycle

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2013/12/16.jpg
Stowaway (ED5 Replacement)


Size (mm) 304x174x225
Size Code 12
Weight (kg) 21.3
CCA 680
Amp/HR 95
Excellent cycling for long operating hours, built to withstand rugged recreational use. The choice for remote operation over extended periods in caravans, motor homes and camper trailers.
FEATURES

Calcium/Calcium Technology
Designed purely for Deep Cycle use with Industrial quality design
Maintenance Free

[AB]

Todays report...

Crank = 12.6

Deep cycle = 13

Seems that the Piranha system is working keeping the drain isolated and seems the drain from cranking so far is very very slow.

I'm going to have to drive the car this weekend, so after Saturday's report I will re wire the pyro and most likely that will fix the issue anyway.

[Faisal]

I think this will help to find the issue

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KF1gijj03_0