Glow Plug issue

[NewDan]

Hey guys just wondering if anyone has had this issue, I had a search of the forum but couldn't find anything related. (Its a 2007 ZD30).
A couple of times now I jumped in to start it, turned the key but no glow plug light on the dash. Turn the key back and then on 2,3,or 4 times and it comes on, goes through its warm up cycle and then I can start the car as normal. This doesn't happen all the time bit there have been a couple of occasions over the last week.
Dan

[STIXGU]

Hey mate, yea I'm having the same dramas but mine won't even start anymore, joined the forum to try and figure it out, i just read in a recent forum that it may be an ECM relay???
Ian

[outback]

try this thread:
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?1428-GU-3ltr-owners-ECM-relay-issues

[GeeYouCRD]

I had same issue 18 months ago with my 2007 CRD, first it would stall about 45 seconds after starting, but then later progressed to not starting. Intermittent and only when cold. Turned out to be Ignition relay. Had searched forums and read about ECM relay, however where my patrol manual shows the location of the ECM relay, top left above dashboard fuse panel, I dont have one. Ign relay is the bottom left one. Easy way to test is swap it with the centre one (Blower). I tested my relay out of the car and worked fine, but must have had burnt contacts because it wouldn't work under load. All those blue relays in that spot are the same. Faulty ign relay worked for blower ( Drawing lower amps). I just swapped the two over and been fine since. Just out of interest the base of those relays is the same as any standard relay, I went to jaycar and bought one as a backup (less than $10), tried in car and works fine. Just doesnt have the plastic clip on it to lock in place.

[NewDan]

Hey GeeYouCRD, when you say you swapped the bottom left with the centre one.... do you only have three in there as in mine, ant the centre one you are talking about, is it slightly higher than the other two.
Dan

[NewDan]

Im A bit confused how the ECM relay connects to the glow plugs, all Ive got to go by is a Haynes manual, and in the drawing in that there seems to be no connection between the ECM relay and the glow plugs. In the drawing I have they seem to be connected through a relay labelled Glow plug relay No 1. But Im buggered if I can find it on the car.

[Yendor]

The glow plug relay is switched on and off by the ECM.

If the ECM relay is faulty the ECM will not power up so it can't switch on and off the glow plugs.

When the glow plug light doesn't come on does the oil light also not come on? any other warning lights not come on.

[nissannewby]

The glow plug relay is switched on and off by the ECM.

If the ECM relay is faulty the ECM will not power up so it can't switch on and off the glow plugs.

When the glow plug light doesn't come on does the oil light also not come on? any other warning lights not come on.

No rest for the wicked.....Yendor is your man he wears his underpants on the outside :).

(Seriously though he's a top bloke)

[Yendor]

No rest for the wicked.....Yendor is your man he wears his underpants on the outside :).

(Seriously though he's a top bloke)

HAhahahahaha..........Your a clown :tongue:

I caught up with the big fella yesterday, his new ride is pretty flash.

[NewDan]

Hey Yendor, Just recently I've found that the Glow Plug light and the "check engine or engine fault light " (what ever its called )
don't come ON
Dan

[Yendor]

Hi Dan,

If the glow plug and check engine warning lights don't work but the oil one does it's more then likely a problem with the ECU relay.

It's a brown relay mounted above the interior fuse box. Try swapping this relay with another brown relay like the A/C one under the bonnet (beside the battery).

If it is the ignition relay your indicators will also not work when it's playing up. Just something else to try.

Cheers
Rodney

[GeeYouCRD]

Yes I only have 3, and the centre one is slightly higher as you say. The left one is IGN, centre one is Blower(heater/AC fan) and right one is accessories. Just swap the IGN and blower relays over to test. The Blower should be the best out of the three coz it gets the least use. When I had the problem and the glowplug and engine light wouldnt come on, If I gave that IGN relay a bit of a tap with my finger they would come on and car would start. That might be another way for you to check first.

[Yendor]

It's strange that you only have 3 relays. Are you sure there's not a 4th relay up higher?

Dan I see you have a 2007 model if it's a CRD them the ECM relay will be blue not brown.

[GeeYouCRD]

Correction, just went out and checked with a torch and there is a 4th blue relay up higher, top right (fuel pump). Not that this matters.

[Yendor]

Correction, just went out and checked with a torch and there is a 4th blue relay up higher, top right (fuel pump). Not that this matters.

You will find that it's the ECU relay not fuel pump relay. Diesels don't have an electric fuel pump.

It matters because it helps Dan diagnose the problem. If it's only the check engine light and glow plug warning lights that are not working it's more then likely the ECU relay. If other warning lights also stop working at the same time it's more then likely the ignition relay.

[NewDan]

Hey Rodney and GeeYouCRD, thanks for the info I'll play around with that over the next few days, these are a tough one because its intermittent so it's hard to know if you fixed the problem or its just not playing up at the time. It has seemed to be worse when the weather is slightly cooler and ok on really hot days, and as Melbourne has a heat wave over the next few days it will be hit and miss. But I will come back and let you know how it went. If it is as you say Rodney and its the one that's a bit higher up it will take a bit of doing because it seems part of the dash will need to come out just to get to it.
Dan

[Yendor]

Yeah if it is the very top one you will need to remove the trim above the pedals (4x bolts & 1 screw). If you still can't get your hand in there to remove the relay you will need to remove the 3 screws that hold the fuse box in place and then carefully lower the fuse box down.

[NewDan]

*Update*
Just some feedback on the issue, especially for Rodney who eventually solved the issue.
About 5am this morning while it was cool I went out to the car and the issue was there. It's now confirmed that the problem is with the ECM relay. It wouldn't start so I pushed my hand up to the relay. When I put pressure on the relay pushing it in while pulling it down towards the floor slightly the glow plugs come on and it starts perfectly, when I release the relay the engine cuts out. I tried this a few time's and same result every time.

I just have to find time to pull the trim apart and and get into Nissan to get a new one. Does anybody know if they are available anywhere other than Nissan ?

Wondering also if maybe not just a faulty relay but could also be the connection of the relay as putting pressure on it seems to do the trick.

Many Thanks to Rodney (Yendor) and the input from GeeYouCRD for solving the problem.

There's a lot of satisfaction in doing the reaserch, asking the questions and coming up with the answer rather than just taking it off to a mechanic.

Dan

[Yendor]

*Update*
Just some feedback on the issue, especially for Rodney who eventually solved the issue.
About 5am this morning while it was cool I went out to the car and the issue was there. It's now confirmed that the problem is with the ECM relay. It wouldn't start so I pushed my hand up to the relay. When I put pressure on the relay pushing it in while pulling it down towards the floor slightly the glow plugs come on and it starts perfectly, when I release the relay the engine cuts out. I tried this a few time's and same result every time.

I just have to find time to pull the trim apart and and get into Nissan to get a new one. Does anybody know if they are available anywhere other than Nissan ?

Wondering also if maybe not just a faulty relay but could also be the connection of the relay as putting pressure on it seems to do the trick.

Many Thanks to Rodney (Yendor) and the input from GeeYouCRD for solving the problem.

There's a lot of satisfaction in doing the reaserch, asking the questions and coming up with the answer rather than just taking it off to a mechanic.

Dan

Hi Dan,

Thanks for the update. Yes it's possible it could be a connection problem in the relay base. You will need to pull the relay out and inspect the terminals in the base.

Is it a blue relay or a brown relay? The blue relays are a standard pin configuration so most aftermarket relays with the standard pin configuration will fit. GeeYouCRD pick up one from Jaycar.

If it's a brown relay that will need to be genuine.

You are doing a great job sorting out this problem.

Cheers Rodney

[alexx]

if relay is just getting loose, try to tighten it with a nylon tie if there are holes to insert it into.

[NewDan]

Ended up getting a genuine relay because I wanted an original one with the same clips..... Its mind blowing that Nissan can charge $132 for a small relay like that... why do they do it?... Just because they can.

[GeeYouCRD]

Glad to here youve got it sorted. When I priced from nissan 18 months ago was $180, One from jaycar is cheap insurance to throw in the glovebox to get you out of trouble if any of them fail.

[NewDan]

Thanks GeeYou that's good advive, Im going to get one next week to keep with me in case I need it again. The only reason I wanted one with the correct clip is that we are planning to do the Simpson next year and didn't want it to rattle free... looking back I could have just put it in a non critical position like the A/C or something like that and all would have been good.
Dan

[ThomasWatson]

Just to shine a light on the topic as to what yendor said diesels do have an electric fuel pump as mechanic ones cannot supply the correct pressure that a diesel needs

[ThomasWatson]

Ended up getting a genuine relay because I wanted an original one with the same clips..... Its mind blowing that Nissan can charge $132 for a small relay like that... why do they do it?... Just because they can.

The relay base can be swapped over it just clips to its internals just incase you didn't know