Redarc "Start assist"

[ova50]

I am doing my dual battery setup, and are using a Redarc SB1112.
I have most of the wiring in place and are wondering about the start assist.
Being a momentary switch I am assuming that it would not be wise to use this for an extended period as it may burn out the solarnoid.
Would my assumption be correct ??
Thanks

[Winnie]

The switch is just an override, it connects the batteries together regardless of voltage. Considering that when you are driving the solenoid is connected for hours at a time I would not worry about it. I did not put the switch in mine, if I ever have to start off the 2nd battery I have got jumper leads in the car. If you are using that switch you need to use much thicker cable and bigger fuses.

[Cuppa]

It’s just a means of jump starting off your aux battery. You can either use a momentary switch or touching the wire to earth when wanting to jump start will achieve the same thing. Having the switch saves needing very long arms or someone to assist.

Cuppa

[ova50]

The cable I am using is 4 gauge and 100amp circuit breakers.
I think I may leave the start assist inactive.
Will post the pics when I get it finished.
Thanks Guys, appreciated. :cheers:

[BigRAWesty]

The switch is just an override, it connects the batteries together regardless of voltage. Considering that when you are driving the solenoid is connected for hours at a time I would not worry about it. I did not put the switch in mine, if I ever have to start off the 2nd battery I have got jumper leads in the car. If you are using that switch you need to use much thicker cable and bigger fuses.

You gotta remember change is usually 90-110A, depending on size of alternator. Cranking a diesel can reach 4 times that.
So most electrical stuff like these have a Max burst for X seconds. The red arc isolator is 200A I think, but can handle 500 for 5 seconds (from memory)

The biggest thing is wire size. If you intend On using the second battery as a back up starter the normal 6mm twin core ain't going to cut the mustard. You need to atleast match the size that goes to your starter motor..
I've used 26mm2 welding cable.. Over kill?? sure, but cheap and it's one thing I know will work, and work safely..

[Yendor]

The switch is just an override, it connects the batteries together regardless of voltage. Considering that when you are driving the solenoid is connected for hours at a time I would not worry about it. I did not put the switch in mine, if I ever have to start off the 2nd battery I have got jumper leads in the car. If you are using that switch you need to use much thicker cable and bigger fuses.

Very good post mate. :thumbup:

[Yendor]

You gotta remember change is usually 90-110A, depending on size of alternator. Cranking a diesel can reach 4 times that.
So most electrical stuff like these have a Max burst for X seconds. The red arc isolator is 200A I think, but can handle 500 for 5 seconds (from memory)

The biggest thing is wire size. If you intend On using the second battery as a back up starter the normal 6mm twin core ain't going to cut the mustard. You need to atleast match the size that goes to your starter motor..
I've used 26mm2 welding cable.. Over kill?? sure, but cheap and it's one thing I know will work, and work safely..

There is no way on earth you would have 90-110A running through the dual battery isolator when charging from the alternator.

The override function is just a sales pitch. If you need to use it once that's an error, if you need to use it more often there's something wrong with your setup.

You would be better off investing the money is a good set of jumper leads then battery cables linking your isolator to your second battery.

[BigRAWesty]

There is no way on earth you would have 90-110A running through the dual battery isolator when charging from the alternator.


Why wouldn't there be close to that if charging a flat battery on an older car with no fancy gizmos, just an isolator??



The override function is just a sales pitch. If you need to use it once that's an error, if you need to use it more often there's something wrong with your setup.

You would be better off investing the money is a good set of jumper leads then battery cables linking your isolator to your second battery.

Why is it a sales pitch?? The units can handle it so why not have to option?
My battery currently is shot, so starting of my second. I'll be changing it when I gets back on the road, but when our out Bush, and your battery is shot, and your leads are right at the bottom of the draws, Its a good option. And it's usually free..

Not being disrespectfull, your a knowledgeable bloke, just asking why

[Cuppa]

re. welding cable.
I have used welding cable to carry the output from roof mounted solar panels on our bus. It is a relatively cost effective solution & having fine strands of copper it is also relatively flexible. However for a long term installation attention needs to be paid to sealing the ends of the cable, as the finer strands can tend to ‘wick’ moisture along the cable, eventually resulting in oxidation & resistance within the cable. more of an issue with solar where every volt counts, but good practice for any set up.

Yendor’s post got me thinking, & I think he’s right about good jumper leads being a more economic & flexible investment than heavy cables between the batteries. That said Westy’s comment about having a heavy gauge cable between starter & aux is also reasonable, especially if the aux is not convenient to get at with jumper cables & essential if there is the possibility of using the override for jump starts. I guess the point is to avoid the need for jump starts in the first place. The dual battery setup I removed from my vehicle to Telstra standards used 35mm2. A similar but 24v setup in my bus also has 35mm2 (but this utilises a SBI24D (two way) & the heavier gauge helps minimise voltage drop for the solar input.
Only time I have ever joined the batteries together using the manual override of the SBI in the bus was when we had a flat starter resulting from the alternator karking it, but I was glad I had the heavy cable on that occasion. Given the positioning of the battery banks relative to each other a set of jumper leads would have been a real pain & carried higher risk of shorting against the vehicle body.
Using 70mm2 between the pod batteries & the under bonnet cranker in the Patrol allowed for winching or jump starting at the flick of a switch without needing to access the pod bank which would be a hassle.

[Yendor]

Why wouldn't there be close to that if charging a flat battery on an older car with no fancy gizmos, just an isolator??



Why is it a sales pitch?? The units can handle it so why not have to option?
My battery currently is shot, so starting of my second. I'll be changing it when I gets back on the road, but when our out Bush, and your battery is shot, and your leads are right at the bottom of the draws, Its a good option. And it's usually free..

Not being disrespectfull, your a knowledgeable bloke, just asking why

Are you for real?? You are posting like you know.

An older vehicle would be lucky to have a 60A alternator.

A GU has a 100-110 amp maximum output alternator fitted. So assuming the alternator ignores the electrical demands of the vehicle and trying to charge the cranking battery.

You are saying it will pump 90 amps into the second battery?. Wouldn't this demand drop the voltage to below threshold of the VSR anyway? Have you tried pumping 90 amps into a battery?

Why would you go out bush with a shot main battery?????? I would recommend you have your jumper leads sitting on the passengers front floor then.

BTW......It's a sales pitch because it's not really needed......you are better off haveing a good set of jumper leads that you can jump start from another vehicle if needed.

[Drewboyaus]

Wouldn't the thicker cables and override switch allow for winching from both batteries (assuming the second is a cranker)?
If you needed to....

[Yendor]

Wouldn't the thicker cables and override switch allow for winching from both batteries (assuming the second is a cranker)?
If you needed to....

This setup is a bit different to the OP's.

If you plan on doing long hard winching, depending on your other requirements, then you might be better off paralleling the two batteries.

If it's only a just incase thing then you can use your jumper leads to parallel the two batteries when you connect your winch cable up.

[Drewboyaus]

Yeah, you're right, a bit off the OP. Just thought I'd check as that's how I wired mine......
If you said "are you crazy??" I would have quietly gone and made a few changes! LOL

[menis]

well i run the overide and i think its a great device..
when me n the boys head up the high country we normally have a few too many beers and i get my stereo going in my ute (amp splits & sub) all running off my starter, normally i dont moniter my batterys after a few!

somtimes the mornin after ill go to start the ute and it wont turn over ill simply hit the overide and fuckkin bobs ur uncle!

been doing it for years.. no drama ..

[Winnie]

well i run the overide and i think its a great device..
when me n the boys head up the high country we normally have a few too many beers and i get my stereo going in my ute (amp splits & sub) all running off my starter, normally i dont moniter my batterys after a few!

somtimes the mornin after ill go to start the ute and it wont turn over ill simply hit the overide and fuckkin bobs ur uncle!

been doing it for years.. no drama ..

Would it not be easier to run the stereo off your second battery? What would you do if your second battery went flat overnight via a fridge or whatever you might have running off it?

[Drewboyaus]

Would it not be easier to run the stereo off your second battery? What would you do if your second battery went flat overnight via a fridge or whatever you might have running off it?

I run my stereo off the main battery......
But then I've only just changed out the Eurovox tape deck! LMAO

[ova50]

The cable I am using is about 23mm2 and rated at 135 amps.
The shop that supplied the Redarc, said they often use the 6 Gauge cable (rated around 80amps), and is what is usually supplied when you buy the full kit.
I decided to use the 4 gauge as it looks the same size as the starter cable on the vehicle. (and I already had about 4 metres of it)
I was even considering running a 4 gauge jumper wire through a separate high amp isolator switch that would by pass the Redarc and the start assist.
I usually carry some jumper leads that are rated at around 150amps. I just had the concerns about the start assist.

:cheers:

[Yendor]

well i run the overide and i think its a great device..
when me n the boys head up the high country we normally have a few too many beers and i get my stereo going in my ute (amp splits & sub) all running off my starter, normally i dont moniter my batterys after a few!

somtimes the mornin after ill go to start the ute and it wont turn over ill simply hit the overide and fuckkin bobs ur uncle!

been doing it for years.. no drama ..

Thank you........ another example of an incorrect setup.

Why would you hint to someone else this setup is OK?

You do release that draining a cranking battery that low will reduce the life of the battery?

[menis]

if i had my stereo wired up to my second battery, id loose my fridge and accesories!?

i think its the best method for what i do..
if i havent had too much stones i normally turn it over every so often!

might have to find room for a 3rd :D

[Yendor]

The cable I am using is about 23mm2 and rated at 135 amps.
The shop that supplied the Redarc, said they often use the 6 Gauge cable (rated around 80amps), and is what is usually supplied when you buy the full kit.
I decided to use the 4 gauge as it looks the same size as the starter cable on the vehicle. (and I already had about 4 metres of it)
I was even considering running a 4 gauge jumper wire through a separate high amp isolator switch that would by pass the Redarc and the start assist.
I usually carry some jumper leads that are rated at around 150amps. I just had the concerns about the start assist.

:cheers:

Sorry for the thread hijack.

The setup you have is good. The only thing I would change from Winnie's first post is to remove the fuses altogether, if you are planing on starting via the isolator.

Just make sure the battery cable runs behind the engine and is covered in conduit.

Cheers Rodney

[menis]

ok yendor"what is the correct setup" considering arb installed it for me????????

well if ive been "damaging" my cranking battery for 6 years why is it still better than ever????

if running an overide is an "incorrect setup" why would redarc have the fukkin thing there to begin with?

[Yendor]

ok yendor"what is the correct setup" considering arb installed it for me????????

well if ive been "damaging" my cranking battery for 6 years why is it still better than ever????

if running an overide is an "incorrect setup" why would redarc have the fukkin thing there to begin with?

Not the one you have.

If you advised ARB this is what you want to do with your setup then take it back to them.............

Have you read my post regarding sales pitch?

[Yendor]

Not the one you have.

If you advised ARB this is what you want to do with your setup then take it back to them.............

Have you read my post regarding sales pitch?


Sorry forgot to add fukkin somewhere.......

[menis]

so your saying redarc are full of it, and your better off carryin around a set of jumper leads...?

riiightooo?

[Yendor]

so your saying redarc are full of it, and your better off carryin around a set of jumper leads...?

riiightooo?

Have you even bothered to read the thread?

[Drewboyaus]

They're all full of it in one way or another.....
When I was doing mine, I chose the Redarc because the bloke at Piranha flat out lied to me about their equivalent units ability to boost the power to the correct level to charge an AGM.
The next model up did but not the one I was purchasing. Whether it was deliberate or incompetence it helped me make my choice.

[menis]

I am doing my dual battery setup, and are using a Redarc SB1112.
I have most of the wiring in place and are wondering about the start assist.
Being a momentary switch I am assuming that it would not be wise to use this for an extended period as it may burn out the solarnoid.
Would my assumption be correct ??
Thanks

op asked if its ok to run overide?
u said no "its a sales pitch" "jumper leads are more usefull"

i said run it.. "never had a problem in six years".

am i missing somthing?

[ova50]

I must say, all individuals views, recommendations and thoughts have all been well received and appreciated.

I had an idea of what I wanted and put pen to pad with diagrams.
What I wasn't expecting, was this thing called "Smart Start", to foil my plans.

I have mounted the cable in conduit and is along the fire wall.
Havent got a great deal left to do.

I will be posting a thread, together with pics etc when it is finished, and looking forward to those replys too.
Thanks all.:cheers:

[Yendor]

I am doing my dual battery setup, and are using a Redarc SB1112.
I have most of the wiring in place and are wondering about the start assist.
Being a momentary switch I am assuming that it would not be wise to use this for an extended period as it may burn out the solarnoid.
Would my assumption be correct ??
Thanks

op asked if its ok to run overide?
u said no "its a sales pitch" "jumper leads are more usefull"

i said run it.. "never had a problem in six years".

am i missing somthing?



I called B/S on your claim that your regularly drain the cranking battery that low and it last 6 years.

I have never said RedArc products were full of it......actually I think their products are top quality.

I have said you would be better off investing in a good set of jumper leads then heavy duty battery cables linking the isolator.

The fact is, if you are regularly drain your cranking battery that low you have an incorrect setup.

Regardless of who installed it.

[Evo]

I think this is straying a bit from what was originally asked.

@ menis: I think it depends on what you would say is an "extended period"?
I'm planning on using the start assist on my Redarc unit (when I get around to installing it), but only if I can get the second battery under the bonnet (not too far from the starter battery).
Good idea, especially in an 'emergency', as long as everything is hooked up correctly.
Best to try avoid a flat battery in the first place.

My two cents.

Evo

[menis]

mate, the setup is fine i get on the pisss and leave my stereo running too long thats all it is.
amps & subs draw alot of power hence starter goes flat.

thats ok if you dont believe me. that my battery and battery setup has be fine for the last six years.

i could go as far as scanning the arb invoice of when i got it installed but i got better things to do.

cheers mate

[menis]

I think this is straying a bit from what was originally asked.

@ menis: I think it depends on what you would say is an "extended period"?
I'm planning on using the start assist on my Redarc unit (when I get around to installing it), but only if I can get the second battery under the bonnet (not too far from the starter battery).
Good idea, especially in an 'emergency', as long as everything is hooked up correctly.
Best to try avoid a flat battery in the first place.

My two cents.

Evo

hey mate,
when i use the overide in the morning i simply hit the switch, turn the engine over then straight away switch the overide off!

i have never left it on for extended periods!

cheers mate

[BigRAWesty]

hey mate,
when i use the overide in the morning i simply hit the switch, turn the engine over then straight away switch the overide off!

i have never left it on for extended periods!

cheers mate

X2, only on For short periods. But they are built for 100amp constantly so just check you winch draw, and half it, if under 100A then it'll be fine.

[megatexture]

mate, the setup is fine i get on the pisss and leave my stereo running too long thats all it is.
amps & subs draw alot of power hence starter goes flat.

thats ok if you dont believe me. that my battery and battery setup has be fine for the last six years.

i could go as far as scanning the arb invoice of when i got it installed but i got better things to do.

cheers mate

I'm confused how a invoice from arb will show your battery is 6 yrs old ??

Anyway.. Flattening your battery past 11.6v will be doing damage why not get a low voltage cutout to turn off the stereo to save the battery and then you won't need to even use the start assist

Edit, something like this

http://www.batteriesdirect.com.au/shop/product/12703/btlvc0001.html?gclid=CJrc9YLT07oCFcrGpAodaRIAvA

[threedogs]

I like Winnie have a Redarc isolator and if or when my start battery fails like a few months ago
I whip out the jumper leads, 5 min job , KIS I say

[menis]

I'm confused how a invoice from arb will show your battery is 6 yrs old ??

Anyway.. Flattening your battery past 11.6v will be doing damage why not get a low voltage cutout to turn off the stereo to save the battery and then you won't need to even use the start assist

Edit, something like this

http://www.batteriesdirect.com.au/shop/product/12703/btlvc0001.html?gclid=CJrc9YLT07oCFcrGpAodaRIAvA

six years is how long ive had the dual battery setup and my stereo!

btw im not running it flat every wkend it happins every now and again when im up the high country as i said in my first post!

probly happins 3 times a year...

thanks for the link mate, ill look into it!

[threedogs]

Just another unwanted hole in the dash IMO
Other 4x4 I had switch under bonnet for such occasions,flat start battery,
I have Redarc fitted and no biggie to pull the jumper leads out,

6 yrs from a start battery must be close to a world record, but I'd start saving
as it wont last much longer,
A person I know swaps out his batteries every 2 years regardless.
lessens his chance of battery failure outback, or anywhere for that matter.
Works for him

[ova50]

Update: Today I decided to wire in the Smart Start switch. If ever I needed it, its there.
Decided to mount the switch in the engine bay.
Hoping to have the whole job finished over the weekend.