Sound dampening..

[BigRAWesty]

Well a pull up on the reigns after parksy informed me of an issue I have been reading..
And have come across this..
http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com
It's an interesting read, and has possible saved me hundreds..

Just to cap the link as it is quite long..
Products like dynamat and fatmat are sound dampening products, not sound blocking / absorbing.
So for these products to be at full effect you only need a panel surface coverage of 24%.
The idea if 100% coverage has come from aftermarket auto lines.
The reasons why, Its thin and dense. So the sound waves pass right threw like it was sheet metal.
Quote from link
"
It's the barrier layer that makes the most difference. I use mass loaded vinyl (MLV) for this. MLV is the answer to the question: "How inexpensively can we create a substitute for lead sheeting that will accomplish the same thing"?

Mass loaded vinyl is dense and limp - the ideal characteristics for a barrier. A material's resonant frequency is determined by its mass, stiffness and geometric. Low mass/high stiffness mean high resonant frequency. High mass and low stiffness mean a low resonant frequency. MLV and lead sheeting have resonant frequencies below the the audible range. Makes it an excellent barrier.."

So I my friends will be probably bypassing the dynamat, and going a different option.

Sorry parksy..

[MudRunnerTD]

Very interesting link Kallen.

When i did the rebuild in the GQ i fitted a small section of deadener (A4 size) to the inside of each of the door skins rather than trying to do the whole door. I am pleased with how quite the GQ is even running Simex tyres.

Very good link mate cheers.

[Winnie]

I can't wait to take my Patrol off the road for a couple of weeks some time to do this sort of thing.

[BigRAWesty]

Very interesting link Kallen.

When i did the rebuild in the GQ i fitted a small section of deadener (A4 size) to the inside of each of the door skins rather than trying to do the whole door. I am pleased with how quite the GQ is even running Simex tyres.

Very good link mate cheers.

We'll I did notice the other day when running wires for the middle door speakers, that there was a piece of matting already on the outer skin..
About 130x100..
Sure its not the "magic 24%“ but I'm guessing it's the reason why it's there..

I guess the matting has the floor sorted, but what to use for the door skins??

[Parksy]

Cheers for that westy. I too have been doing a lot of reading on the subject and I've come to the conclusion that the thin foil/butyl sheets are good at reducing vibrations and adding a "solid" feel to the vehicle, but aren't the answer to a super quiet vehicle.
In my research I have found a product called luxury liner pro made by second skin. Only problem is that it's a US company, need to see if we have any Aussie dealers.
http://store.secondskinaudio.com/luxury-liner-pro/
Watched a video on YouTube of this stuff and it looks heavy! Perfect for sound deadening.

[BigRAWesty]

Am looking also. That's a good find

[BigRAWesty]

Something like these to would be the pick I think..
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=161074028668
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=360719797099

[Robo]

MLV.
Jaycar stock this stuff by the looks of it.
page 226 in 2013 catalogue.
also online

[liftlid]

Very interesting link Kallen.

When i did the rebuild in the GQ i fitted a small section of deadener (A4 size) to the inside of each of the door skins rather than trying to do the whole door. I am pleased with how quite the GQ is even running Simex tyres.

Very good link mate cheers.

It's not quiet enough for you to hear the cable ties around your tail shaft though!

[threedogs]

I'll still will be using Acoustic batts in the Quarter panels, mainly to stop HWY droning sound

great link Kallen

[Parksy]

Found the jaycar stuff. At 4kg per m^2 and the price is very cheap so might be worth putting a couple of layers down. Very intrigued.
http://m.jaycar.com.au/m_productView.asp?ID=AX3680

[BigRAWesty]

Good price, around $100 for the floor.
But only 2.3mm thick.. I'll see if our local jaycar has Stock?

[BigRAWesty]

well just dropped into the local JayCar. Can get it, unfortunately no display piece.
But he tells me its self adhesive, very pliable and heavy.. So good start.
Might just get one square and see what its like..

[sil3nt_dr3ams]

Hey I got this off the jobsite today it might be worth further investigation.

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2013/10/120.jpg

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2013/10/121.jpg

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2013/10/122.jpg

http://www.spec-net.com.au/press/0310/ecow_100310.htm

[BigRAWesty]

Weird, they are using a different method.. Light weight density..
How are we going to trial it cheaply??

[sil3nt_dr3ams]

Westy I have about 4 square meters here. Mate the stuff is lightweight squashes together 4-5 mm and its has the foam and dyanamat . least if you put it under floor cover you can pull it out dry it.

[megatexture]

Would be good in the doors and use the self adhesive stuff on the floor

[sil3nt_dr3ams]

Well this is what i figure, I think it would be better on the floor least you pull it out inspect yours floors and its not a permanent fixture. I'm thinking bout removing all the foam under my vinyl floor lining and running this under it. I've already completely coated the floor with body shilzs/sound deadner so the floor is sealed. So something like this would be ultimate pull out high pressure wash and let dry.

[BigRAWesty]

Will it work when compressed but?? You see all that style of dampener at 100, not squashed??
Dunno, look forward to hearing some results. Lol

[sil3nt_dr3ams]

Will it work when compressed but?? You see all that style of dampener at 100, not squashed??
Dunno, look forward to hearing some results. Lol

Westy you figure out someway we an benchmark/test it haha

[sil3nt_dr3ams]

When I finished my latest project I'll get to it http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?24188-New-tank-undercar.&p=440003#post440003

[04OFF]

Westy you figure out someway we an benchmark/test it haha

During my home cinema design/testing, i needed to test sound insulation, so i built a MDF box with open sides at opposite ends, (a square tube in otherwords), attach/suspend a db meter to one end, then cover the other end with the test product.


Place a hifi speaker at a set distance on the opposite end to the db meter (so now the sound has to travel through the test product to get to the db meter) play a set track/recording through the speaker ,play sounds with frequency/s around what you expect to encounter (you could record the car noise you wish to reduce).



This can allow you to "hot swap" different products fast and easy in a semi controlled enviroment (well compare apples with apples anyway), and while not studio accurate, its much better than swapping it on the car to find out/guess, plus you only need small samples to test each product.



Simulated compressing of a soft product ,can be done by sandwiching the product between chicken wire (or steel mesh etc), if you fix chicken wire across the open test end of your bare box for "all" testing, all you need to do is use another peice of chicken wire over the outside, to now compress the test product.


Use screws into the body of your MDF box as fixtures, so you can attach cable ties or wire around them, this will allow you to pull the outer piece of chicken wire toward the chicken wire on the box, and so compress the test product that is sandwiched between them, but still allow sound to pass.



:)

[sil3nt_dr3ams]

Okay, so putting everything you said into play,

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Mini-USB-Sound-Noise-Level-Meter-Measure-Tester-Pressure-Decibel-30-130-dB-/110983815498?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&hash=item19d726a14a

I'm thinking two of these http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Mini-USB-Sound-Noise-Level-Meter-Measure-Tester-Pressure-Decibel-30-130-dB-/110983815498?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&hash=item19d726a14a one inside the car one outside the car with a external sound source. As long as the two cheap db testers read the same and the external sound level is the same it should be a good place to start.

[BigRAWesty]

During my home cinema design/testing, i needed to test sound insulation, so i built a MDF box with open sides at opposite ends, (a square tube in otherwords), attach/suspend a db meter to one end, then cover the other end with the test product.


Place a hifi speaker at a set distance on the opposite end to the db meter (so now the sound has to travel through the test product to get to the db meter) play a set track/recording through the speaker ,play sounds with frequency/s around what you expect to encounter (you could record the car noise you wish to reduce).



This can allow you to "hot swap" different products fast and easy in a semi controlled enviroment (well compare apples with apples anyway), and while not studio accurate, its much better than swapping it on the car to find out/guess, plus you only need small samples to test each product.



Simulated compressing of a soft product ,can be done by sandwiching the product between chicken wire (or steel mesh etc), if you fix chicken wire across the open test end of your bare box for "all" testing, all you need to do is use another peice of chicken wire over the outside, to now compress the test product.


Use screws into the body of your MDF box as fixtures, so you can attach cable ties or wire around them, this will allow you to pull the outer piece of chicken wire toward the chicken wire on the box, and so compress the test product that is sandwiched between them, but still allow sound to pass.



:)

Did you just have speaker playing music? Or did you play a propper dB?

[Parksy]

Have purchased 10 of those sheets from jaycar. Will combine that with the dynamat I've got coming and hopefully will have a nice ride. Will let you know how it goes.

[BigRAWesty]

So are you takeing the fat Mat out or just continuing the lay out?

[Parksy]

Will leave the fatmat in for now and just do the sections that I haven't done yet, which is the majority of the floor, except for the cargo area.
Edit: while the fatmat wasn't specificly designed for noise control, it has made a big difference to noise and vibrations, so until it falls off, I might just keep it in.

[BigRAWesty]

Fair enough. I was thinking about the fat Mat. It would probably be fine for the floor pan hay.. Not like it can fall further.. Lol
I might grab some dynamat for the firewall. Also thinking of that paint on stuff for the wheel arches.
Mate we'll have the quietest patrols ever..

[Parksy]

Haha that's the plan. I fitted a 2.5" exhaust with a straight through muffler and took the family for a trip down to Canberra. Wife wasn't impressed, so I swapped the muffler for something quieter and will continue with the soundproofing. Especially as I'm taking them to qld at the end of the year.

[04OFF]

Did you just have speaker playing music? Or did you play a propper dB?


The dB im relating too is a basic measure of sound , so my dB meter tells me how loud a sound is in decibels.

The speaker i used was a subwoofer (under 400 Hz) because low frequencies are great at traveling through walls, so Bass can be the most annoying for anyone else not watching a movie , i.e your nieghbours. :wink:



I found high density products, performed best in my application, none that i used are suitable for car accoustics, so no point talking about then, but the test method/s are still very valid.

[NissanGQ4.2]

Something like these to would be the pick I think..
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=161074028668
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=360719797099

I personally would not use the above products, anything not water proof your wasting your time and money.


Found the jaycar stuff. At 4kg per m^2 and the price is very cheap so might be worth putting a couple of layers down. Very intrigued.
http://m.jaycar.com.au/m_productView.asp?ID=AX3680

Now that looks very interesting and promising as a waterproof deadener, will have 2 look into that product some more :)

[BigRAWesty]

I personally would not use the above products, anything not water proof your wasting your time and money.



Now that looks very interesting and promising as a waterproof deadener, will have 2 look into that product some more :)

No need to be mean about it...
Lol
I guess it depends on where you use the products.
I'm waiting for a reply from the 2 joints to see if I can grab a sample.
Personally think both options will be fine in water, option one is a closed cell foam, what is seen from the outter it looks porous but water can't penetrate further..
Option 2 I'm still waiting on a reply.

[NissanGQ4.2]

Not been mean mate, just how I see it.....................if it doesn't withstand water and you can't pull it up easily with the carpet when it gets wet, 2 me its a waste of time and money.

Even if I didn't plan on doing a river crossing or bog holes I would still use something that is waterproof.

[BigRAWesty]

Not been mean mate, just how I see it.....................if it doesn't withstand water and you can't pull it up easily with the carpet when it gets wet, 2 me its a waste of time and money.

Even if I didn't plan on doing a river crossing or bog holes I would still use something that is waterproof.

Yea for sure. I was wondering how it would go stuck to the back of the carpet??

[Parksy]

Got the dynamat today and its allot heavier than the fatmat. Doesn't smell like asphalt either so I know it's a butyl product. It's very sticky compared to the fatmat and sticks very well, but doesn't form as easy as the fatmat. I find I can't use the handle end of a screw driver to form the stuff like I could with the fatmat, but my fingers did the job just fine. I did the rear floor section under the rear seats while they are out. Am waiting for the jaycar stuff and will line the floor with this stuff also.

[BigRAWesty]

Nice. Well sorta. You've just bashed my wallet a little more..

[Parksy]

Yeah it's not exactly cheap, but tomorrow's drive to work will give me an indication of any improvement with this stuff. Here's hoping for deafening silence!

[BigRAWesty]

Do you think 100% coverage with the base was worth it? Or do you think this other blokes 25% coverage would obtain the same outcome?
But after your previous comments, dynamat is the better pick??

[Parksy]

Yeah dynamat for the win! Absolutely. No I don't think absolute coverage is necessary. Maybe if you want the thermo blocking properties, but for vibration reduction it only needs minimal coverage to do the job.

[BigRAWesty]

Sorry, this their 4x4 water proof closed cell foam..
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=151094843053
I still think the jaycar stuff is a little cheaper but..

[BigRAWesty]

Yeah dynamat for the win! Absolutely. No I don't think absolute coverage is necessary. Maybe if you want the thermo blocking properties, but for vibration reduction it only needs minimal coverage to do the job.

I'm thinking half a sheet each door, wheel arches, Fire wall and drive shaft hump..
I think 3.6m2 will cover that.
Then foam the rest..
I'm dreading the dash tear down..
Also thinking I might replace the busted vents while out.. Lol
The list keeps growing.. :banghead:

[PMC]

Well a pull up on the reigns after parksy informed me of an issue I have been reading..
And have come across this..
http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com
It's an interesting read, and has possible saved me hundreds..

Just to cap the link as it is quite long..
Products like dynamat and fatmat are sound dampening products, not sound blocking / absorbing.
So for these products to be at full effect you only need a panel surface coverage of 24%.
The idea if 100% coverage has come from aftermarket auto lines.
The reasons why, Its thin and dense. So the sound waves pass right threw like it was sheet metal.
Quote from link
"
It's the barrier layer that makes the most difference. I use mass loaded vinyl (MLV) for this. MLV is the answer to the question: "How inexpensively can we create a substitute for lead sheeting that will accomplish the same thing"?

Mass loaded vinyl is dense and limp - the ideal characteristics for a barrier. A material's resonant frequency is determined by its mass, stiffness and geometric. Low mass/high stiffness mean high resonant frequency. High mass and low stiffness mean a low resonant frequency. MLV and lead sheeting have resonant frequencies below the the audible range. Makes it an excellent barrier.."

So I my friends will be probably bypassing the dynamat, and going a different option.

Sorry parksy..

G'day folks,

I used a sound deadening mat from Clark rubber, it cost me between $250.00 to $300.00 for memory. This product has really cut the sound level down.

http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u434/RLI1/Latest%20photos/IMG_1303.jpg (http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/RLI1/media/Latest%20photos/IMG_1303.jpg.html)

It was easy to work with!

http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u434/RLI1/Latest%20photos/IMG_1304.jpg (http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/RLI1/media/Latest%20photos/IMG_1304.jpg.html)

PS, It also keeps the heat out and increases the cold air performance from the air-con.

Regards,

RLI

[BigRAWesty]

Was looking at that stuff to RLI, can get 10m2 cheap imported for $200..
They say the foam is mold proof, do you think it would be water proof to?

[PMC]

Was looking at that stuff to RLI, can get 10m2 cheap imported for $200..
They say the foam is mold proof, do you think it would be water proof to?

Not a problem it is covered by two layers of aluminum tin foil sheets.

Regards,

RLI

[BigRAWesty]

And is self adhesives or supply your own glue?

[PMC]

And is self adhesives or supply your own glue?

G'day mate,

Self adhesive, i also applied sikaflex PRO for added adhesiveness.

Regards,

RLI

[BigRAWesty]

Nice.. another one in the ring.

[Parksy]

Jaycar stuff arrived today, it's quite heavy. Ordered 10 sheets of the stuff and they are about 1kg per sheet.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v92/Pakas/EAA983AE-4784-4589-AF10-5895F2F24F5F-2478-00000289000E6314_zps40083bf3.jpg

[BigRAWesty]

Is that self adhesive??
If so will probably be good enough to substitute the dynamat out with.. 1kg per half meter.. That's 20kg to do the whole car.. Lol
Carp..

[Parksy]

No it's not self adhesive. Would be perfect if it was, but unfortunately not.

[BigRAWesty]

We my local shop said yep it was. He could be up for a few cans of gel grip..

Also am being sent a sample of the car builders 4x4 Mat. A little more expensive at $60 PP for 1.8m2
Is 5mm thick and looks dense.

The epdm source has it all pre packed so cant supply an Off cut.
But is a bit cheaper at $29 for 1.1m2..
Is also 5mm think but looks more pliable from pics..

Would seem the first guy's use there product which is a good sign..

[BigRAWesty]

ok, have made my decisions..
Going >> This << (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Car-Sound-Deadener-4-5m2-Sound-Proofing-Noise-Deadening-/261165939800?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3cceb3fc58) as the base.. I will cover complete fire wall, driveshaft hump and the rear wheel arches, plus either a whole sheet or half sheet per door skin depending on whats left..

Then >> This << (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/251263917315?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649) for the top layer.. Have done a bit of research and after RLI jumped in stating his stuff workes i have a confidence that this is the same as the water proof stuff that i posted before.
Closed cell rubber foam with a aloy film on top..
10m2 for $200, no one else comes close..

anyway, i think this is a good medium setup, water proof and will assist that ac when in the outback.. lol
so ill keep you guys posted.. now for the complete tear down... :D

[threedogs]

Looking on with interest you haven't got me yet. thinking I like what MudRunner has done,
by brushing it on as it can't trap moisture, suppose each have good/bad points.,
did you do the batt down in 1/4 panel cavity, hell of a lot of noise from that area.
I watch and listen lol

[MudRunnerTD]

That stuff that RLI got from Clark rubber is also perfect to make window cutouts with for the rear cargo windows ;) get the wife to sew a nice trim around the border and pop a couple of holes in it to place some suction cups from spotlight and Bobs ya Auntie ;)

Kallen in terms of water proof. I liked the brush on as it can't trap water. I did 4 or 5 thick coats and if I am ever dumb enough to flood the car again then out comes the carpet and the water will be manageable. If you can get water between you floor pan and the sheets I think your asking for trouble. My 2c

[BigRAWesty]

Fair points, was there any smell with the paint on stuff??

[MudRunnerTD]

Fair points, was there any smell with the paint on stuff??

Zero. Nada! Not at all.

That link you posted was interesting too as it talked about allot of he noise was reverb through the panel steal like a drum. So the 25% rule applies (can't remember the percentage ;) ) even just painting a couple of coats on the inside of the door skins would stop the reverb from happening I think. It would be less inclined to vibrate.

It's cheap and easy as. Putting something on the fire wall would be a real winner though.

[BigRAWesty]

That first product is the same concept as the paint.
2mm think rubber sheets, at the 25% rule (except the fire wall and wheel arches), Then the water proof foam will cover 100% of the doors, 1/4 panels and floor..

By using the paint you get 100% water proof I guess.
What sorta $$$ per liter and where do you get it??

[Parksy]

One thing I've noticed with the dynamat(butyl) is that it sticks extremely well! Especially compared to the fatmat(which isn't true sound deadener). I've applied it using a roller and I very much doubt that water will find it's way under the sheets. So long as there isn't any points that the water can enter from under the sheet, I don't see any problems. I think it would actually benefit the steel underneath. I only draw this conclusion from removing the tape used to secure the wiring looms to the floor and revealing mint condition floor underneath.

[Covo71]

Hey Mudrunner, what is the name of the paint on stuff you used? $$$$? Where did you get it?

[Parksy]

As it stands, my patrol has most of the floor section, drivers and rear barn doors and firewall covered in sound proofing material, and the difference is amazing! Driving to work and back today and the traffic jams didn't even bother me because I was in awe at how the patrol felt and sounded. I covered the transmission tunnel in dynamat, and I can't hear the clunking gear changes, which almost makes it feel nicer to change. I did start off with fatmat, but I'll be ripping this out and replacing it with dynamat. Then covering it all in acoustic liner made by car builders. Will also do under the bonnet and chuck on some hood liner aswel. Great way to transform a car!

[MudRunnerTD]

Hey Mudrunner, what is the name of the paint on stuff you used? $$$$? Where did you get it?

Got this stuff from Supercheap

36334


Sent from my iPhone using Motorculture mobile app

[BigRAWesty]

As it stands, my patrol has most of the floor section, drivers and rear barn doors and firewall covered in sound proofing material, and the difference is amazing! Driving to work and back today and the traffic jams didn't even bother me because I was in awe at how the patrol felt and sounded. I covered the transmission tunnel in dynamat, and I can't hear the clunking gear changes, which almost makes it feel nicer to change. I did start off with fatmat, but I'll be ripping this out and replacing it with dynamat. Then covering it all in acoustic liner made by car builders. Will also do under the bonnet and chuck on some hood liner aswel. Great way to transform a car!

Awesome stuff mate and great to hear.
I think I'll push ahead with the mats and foam..


Got this stuff from Supercheap

36334


Sent from my iPhone using Motorculture mobile app

Will price this up though..

[Covo71]

You used this inside the car under carpet, yeah?

[BigRAWesty]

As it stands, my patrol has most of the floor section, drivers and rear barn doors and firewall covered in sound proofing material, and the difference is amazing! Driving to work and back today and the traffic jams didn't even bother me because I was in awe at how the patrol felt and sounded. I covered the transmission tunnel in dynamat, and I can't hear the clunking gear changes, which almost makes it feel nicer to change. I did start off with fatmat, but I'll be ripping this out and replacing it with dynamat. Then covering it all in acoustic liner made by car builders. Will also do under the bonnet and chuck on some hood liner aswel. Great way to transform a car!

How many meters do you think you covered?? Just wondering if 4.5 m2 is enough or if I'll need the 6m2??

[MudRunnerTD]

You used this inside the car under carpet, yeah?

Yes mate. 4 or 5 thick coats. It must be 3or4mm thick I reckon. Dries hard and has no smell.

[Covo71]

Beauty, that was the answer I was looking for. I think there is a small hole in the muffler and there is heaps of noise coming in through under the centre console. Needs something to quieten down a bit. Cheers

[Stropp]

Beauty, that was the answer I was looking for. I think there is a small hole in the muffler and there is heaps of noise coming in through under the centre console. Needs something to quieten down a bit. Cheers

Lol a new muffler would help too I imagine or fit a straight muffler replacement section.

[BigRAWesty]

Well I must admit these guys have my money due to customer service as this arrived today..
36352
This water proof stuff is the shoit.. Not heavy like the stuff you have parksy from jaycar but is thick.. 10mm and soooo freaking squishy..... Lol and the rubber is 2mm thick..
Cheers

[Parksy]

How many meters do you think you covered?? Just wondering if 4.5 m2 is enough or if I'll need the 6m2??

You will need more than 6 square meters if you want to do the entire car. I think I have about 8 square meters installed in mine and I still need to do 3 more doors and a few blanks spots of floor.

I do like that car builders acoustic liner, so I've ordered a couple of sheets of that and will rip all the dash out again and line the firewall with it. I'll also work at trying to quieten the dash assembly. Not sure about yours, but mine rattles and makes noises.

[BigRAWesty]

Yea I've asked for a quote for 4m2 of the panel deadener, and 10 of the foam.
My dash sounds like it has loose change in it...
So yes will be trying to make it quieter..

[mudnut]

Got this stuff from Supercheap

36334


Sent from my iPhone using Motorculture mobile app

Does this stuff smell on hot days, or go soft with the heat, MR?

[BigRAWesty]

Does this stuff smell on hot days, or go soft with the heat, MR?

Some say yes, some say no.
It says it dries hard in 3-4 hours, and temp rating to 140ish C..

[MudRunnerTD]

Does this stuff smell on hot days, or go soft with the heat, MR?

Never ever noticed the smell. Even opening the car after a long time in the sun and No Smell. Can't comment on if it goes soft though?? It's under the carpet! I have never looked. I doubt it very much though mate, it dries hard as hell.

[mudnut]

I wonder if it works as well if it is applied on the exterior of the floor pan? It would also protect from stone damage as well.

[BigRAWesty]

I wonder if it works as well if it is applied on the exterior of the floor pan? It would also protect from stone damage as well.

I think that's Its original use. Adds an extra barrier..

[Parksy]

Found this quite interesting.
http://youtu.be/1Q0YBkgBoEI

[BigRAWesty]

Found this quite interesting.
http://youtu.be/1Q0YBkgBoEI

We'll after seeing that I think my fire wall and tunnel will look like a zebra.. Lol
Amazing..

[BigRAWesty]

Well as some of you might have seen I have received my gear to carry out this project.
And you may have seen I didn't get brand name.
I did a lot of research and found 2 very well priced suppliers.
First up is the butyl sheets.
Dynamat is roughly from $200-300 for 3.5m2, and there are a few others which are a little cheaper, but this deal is awesome.
The bloke depot do 4.5m2 for $150..
Now it is blank.. No name. But I can confirm it is butyl and not bitumen.
It is 2mm think, like the dynamat.
So in my eyes Its a winner..

And the big one. The foam.
After finding the waterproof foam from body builders I knew what I was looking for. And after digging I found this supplier of what I think is exactly if not a little better than the expensive.
Just a few pics
37188
37189
37190
Now the cheaper stuff has an alloy top for extra heat resistance which is good, and that final pic looks a little rough due to a blunt knife.
So the foam from body builders is $55+ postage for 1.8m2.
The bulk roll, 10m2, well the price said $200, I went in at $185 and got it..
So heeeaaaappppsssss cheaper.
So if yea. Pretty much shop around guys.

Sorry parksy, I should have said something but I didn't want to recommend anything before seeing it myself.
Cheers

[Parksy]

All good westy, thanks for finding these products. I still need to do the roof of the patrol, might have to invest in this stuff.
Was it an online purchase?

[BigRAWesty]

All good westy, thanks for finding these products. I still need to do the roof of the patrol, might have to invest in this stuff.
Was it an online purchase?

The roof... :eek: you are really getting into it..
Yea mate. Both Off eBay.

Foam (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/251263917315?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649)

Rubber (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/261165939800?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649)

[Stropp]

The roof... :eek: you are really getting into it..
Yea mate. Both Off eBay.
Foam
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=251263917315

Rubber
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=261165939800



westy those links dont go to the items????

[BigRAWesty]

westy those links dont go to the items????

Have fixed.

[BigRAWesty]

We'll guys. It's in..
And the rebuild has begun..
10m2 is enough to do the whole.. And the fire wall twice.
Started reassembling the dash.
Have 5 sheets of butyl left so I think I'll do the inner door skins to.. Why the hell not hay..

Can't wait to Start it..
37586
37587

[threedogs]

Did you use that special roller to apply the sheets ,BTW bloody big job there buddy. lol

[BigRAWesty]

Did you use that special roller to apply the sheets ,BTW bloody big job there buddy. lol

No.. But Geeze my hands are thanking me for it.. Lol
Bloody cramping up and look like they took on a shredder..

I'd recommend the roller.. :D
Wife reckons I'm building a space ship!! WTF..

[threedogs]

Sure she'll be happy with the results,,
did you slide some pink batts in the 1/4 panel cavity?

[BigRAWesty]

Sure she'll be happy with the results,,
did you slide some pink batts in the 1/4 panel cavity?

No but have covers right around to the doors, in and around the fuse box.
Will be stuffing the rear 1/4's when finished.
I'm applying a shoit load of rust converter, then that paint on stuff, and then stuff em with something..

[BigRAWesty]

WwwWell I picked up this stuff
37764
And shoit Its thick..
$45 ish from auto barn.
As I suspected its basically paint on rubber / tar, but I don't mind as iT's going in the rear 1/4's, wheel arches and the few spots I had to weld repair to give those areas the original coating..

Well, shoit it's thick.. Buy throw away brushes.. And some rubber gloves..

You get a lot of coverage from 4L.. I'd say easy a few coats of the whole floor pan (but keep reading), after applying a good coat in the 1/4 (slapping it in) I used roughly 150ml..

This stuff is good for sealing a surface, but in my opinion has nothing On the dynamat..
After 1 good coat there is no difference between coated and uncoated panels, where with 25% coverage of the panel with dynamat it had a huge affect.

So imo and as I suspected its no good for "sound dampening" as it has no weight to it (refer to link in first post), but
Sealing, rust prevention and mess making.. Yes it ticks those boxes.

But in another side note, 4.5m2 of dynamat has covered the car. I didn't do the cargo area Floor as the draws add a huge dampening affect, But I have enough left over to cover the inner skins of the front doors. So if you want to do the cargo area it's perfect.
I went with more a 75-80% coverage with the dynamat. If you stretch it to 25% then the 3.5m2 pack will do..

[threedogs]

Are you painting the inside of wheel arches with this "stuff"?

[BigRAWesty]

Yep.. But shoit it's sticky..

[threedogs]

Might have to do this next year, after You give your opinion of it, is it worth doing or not.

[BigRAWesty]

I can't wait to try it.. Got a few more bits to put in.. Will be scraping Christmas. Plan is to take it.. Fingers crossed..

[BigRAWesty]

Well Its driving. Still some loose ends to tie up with body work but Its driving..
And wholly hell what a difference.
It's on par if not quieter than the in-laws diesel prado, and a lot quieter than our petrol BA wagon..

Worth while. Hell yes..
If it's something you wanna do, do it..

[megatexture]

what was the total cost of it all.

[BigRAWesty]

Time!!!! Lol
Um seriously cost me $350 for the foam and butyl mat..

[BigRAWesty]

We'll guys got it up to highway speeds tonight. Loving it.. Wife and I can talk nicely. Lol

You can still hear the diesel engine, but it's more a dull rumble, not like your straddling it.. :D

No road noise at all.. I'll admit I'm only running Cooper ATR's which are a nice tyre but it's a huge drop from before.
This is with no draw system in so once thats all fitted again I guess it'll be better again..

You still get the wind noise coz let's face it, we ain't drive the most aerodynamic cars here. I think parksy is keen to do his roof so I'll let him test how that goes..
I was thinking maybe another couple square meters and do the bonnet, but we'll see..

So again.. Very happy with the outcome. And for it still to be wash out if needed is a bonus..

[Clunk]

We'll guys got it up to highway speeds tonight. Loving it.. Wife and I can talk nicely. Lol

..

And that right there is exactly why I won't be doing any sound deadening to mine, I prefer to listen to the constant drone of tyres and car rather than that sort of drone!!!!!!!

[BigRAWesty]

And that right there is exactly why I won't be doing any sound deadening to mine, I prefer to listen to the constant drone of tyres and car rather than that sort of drone!!!!!!!

Bahahahahahaha...
Well good point. Atleast I can turn up the music to and hear it... Lol

[BigRAWesty]

Well I have noticed another little bonus now I'm driving it more.
Outside temp is low 30`s but the air coming in threw the vent is still cool.
So I'm guessing the extra insulation is keeping the whole system cooler..

[FNQGU]

Westy,

I hope you don't mind, but I am half way through some of my own additions of sound dampener, and thought that perhaps I could just add the pics to your thread.

Starting with the floor in the front of the GU...

http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/ad197/BenKDJ/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-05/IMG_20140509_103006_553_zpsbjbms9oj.jpg (http://s935.photobucket.com/user/BenKDJ/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-05/IMG_20140509_103006_553_zpsbjbms9oj.jpg.html)

http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/ad197/BenKDJ/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-05/IMG_20140509_102952_461_zpsnimsmdz6.jpg (http://s935.photobucket.com/user/BenKDJ/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-05/IMG_20140509_102952_461_zpsnimsmdz6.jpg.html)

http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/ad197/BenKDJ/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-05/IMG_20140509_112001_794_zpsg5i0n3f7.jpg (http://s935.photobucket.com/user/BenKDJ/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-05/IMG_20140509_112001_794_zpsg5i0n3f7.jpg.html)

http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/ad197/BenKDJ/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-05/IMG_20140509_141247_038_zps3gbumzr9.jpg (http://s935.photobucket.com/user/BenKDJ/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-05/IMG_20140509_141247_038_zps3gbumzr9.jpg.html)

I actually did right through and under the seats but that is as far as I have gotten so far.

Drivers door.... basically covered probably 80% of the outside door skin wherever I could, and then most of the inner door. I would like to cover as much of the hole where the door lock rods go through but am out of dynamat at this point in time. Have also done the outer skin of the passengers side door but that is it.

http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/ad197/BenKDJ/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-05/IMG_20140510_153818_101_zpsjvfksiel.jpg (http://s935.photobucket.com/user/BenKDJ/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-05/IMG_20140510_153818_101_zpsjvfksiel.jpg.html)

http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/ad197/BenKDJ/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-05/IMG_20140510_160945_840_zps1b6qlaxh.jpg (http://s935.photobucket.com/user/BenKDJ/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-05/IMG_20140510_160945_840_zps1b6qlaxh.jpg.html)

http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/ad197/BenKDJ/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-05/IMG_20140510_170243_960_zpsektppvld.jpg (http://s935.photobucket.com/user/BenKDJ/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-05/IMG_20140510_170243_960_zpsektppvld.jpg.html)

Hopefully I can finish the doors and the floor in the middle seat area sometime soon.

Put the door trims back on and took it for a drive this arvo. Fantastic improvement in sound from the drivers door, and in general from the install so far. I didn't go ballistic on the firewall as I decided not to take the dash out yet like you blokes did. All the same, very happy with it, so thanks for the tips to start with from yourself and Parksy that gave me the motivation in the first place.

[BigRAWesty]

Not at all mate. It's why I put it up separately, so people can find it and use the info..
I would also add the foam to the outter door skins, maybe a pita with the stuff on the inner skin. Did you have a look at the link at how 24% coverage with dynamat is optimum? Will save you a bit of cash..

[FNQGU]

Thanks, yes I saw that. After speaking with 04Off though, I decided not to put any foam in the doors, and to up the coverage on the dynamat with the aim of a bit better sound as well. I won't be doing that for any of the area behind the front seats though.

I have lined all the floor from about just behind the front seats forward to the firewall with new foam as well. Unfortunately I must have forgotten to take a pic of that. When I finish off the vehicle to the back, I'll take a few more pics.

Just quietly I am very pleased with the difference now in the sound from my 6" speakers, even though they are relatively crappy ones. Makes me wonder what a good set would be capable of. Maybe another project down the track...

[BigRAWesty]

Thanks, yes I saw that. After speaking with 04Off though, I decided not to put any foam in the doors, and to up the coverage on the dynamat with the aim of a bit better sound as well. I won't be doing that for any of the area behind the front seats though.

I have lined all the floor from about just behind the front seats forward to the firewall with new foam as well. Unfortunately I must have forgotten to take a pic of that. When I finish off the vehicle to the back, I'll take a few more pics.

Just quietly I am very pleased with the difference now in the sound from my 6" speakers, even though they are relatively crappy ones. Makes me wonder what a good set would be capable of. Maybe another project down the track...

Yes I'm still running stock gq fronts and 6x9' in the rear doors and they sound good. Might go some splits I'm the front

[timmay556]

I just picked up 36 square feet of Dynamat to put in my GQ. I'm thinking full cover on driver/pass door then start under the dash and work as far back as I can along the floor pan. After reading this thread I cant wait to hear the results.

[BigRAWesty]

I wouldn't waste it mate.
As linked earlier in the thread the optimum coverage is 24% from memory. Any more and the gain is minimal.
I'd even it out and cover as much as possible.

The dynamat is not the stuff which reduces noise either, all it does is mass loads the panels to stop vibrations..
You need a thicker, dense cover for actual sound reductions.

[timmay556]

Really?

This is what I was thinking of doing from a prev post....

http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/ad197/BenKDJ/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-05/IMG_20140510_170243_960_zpsektppvld.jpg
http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/ad197/BenKDJ/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-05/IMG_20140509_112001_794_zpsg5i0n3f7.jpg

[timmay556]

Here is a snapshot of what I'm doing

[BigRAWesty]

Ok you have 2 different things going there.
When you put the dynamat on the outter skin, ie floor pan doing 100% is a waste as mentioned before..

When applying the inner skins of doors as in your last pics your not really sound deadening but more increasing the audio sound..
Best audio comes from a solid wooden box. We can make doors from wood so applying 100% dynamat give the weight needed for the steel to act like wood..
You will still see a small decrease in exterior noise, but not as much as if applied to the outter skins

Have a read of the link in my first post, it explains it better.

[HuskyInAuz]

Everyone's hearing is affected by different environmental factors, low frequency, high freq, background, etc, so there will be different outcomes. I put a foil/butyl layer down on the floor and outside skins as well as inside door skins. What I did then was put a dense but thin, like 6mm, down over the top of that on the firewall and floor then put, with difficulty, the carpet/moldings back down. With my hearing the reduction in background noise with the ability to hear conversations front pas and rear pas seats was incredible, is as good at the European thingy.

When insulating engine rooms on a few boats there is a material that combines a lot of what has been talked about here, three-four distinct layers. Foam/Lead or HD material in lieu, and foil, it's anywhere from 1" (25mm) to 2" and very heavy. My reading are that sound can escape even through the smallest imperfection or gap and that is why we taped all the seams too. http://www.fisheriessupply.com/sitesearch.aspx?keyword=Soundtec&id=Soundtec
Now it's pretty impractical to put a 25-50mm layer down on the floor but one could put some of this stuff in doors and cavities. I wouldn't know where to source this.

[BigRAWesty]

Spot on. I layed a 25% coverage of dynamat then 100% coverage of a 10mm mass loaded closed cell foam with aluminium foil topping, then struggled to get floor in..
It went in but tightly lol..
And same, can now comfortably hold a conversation with the wife.
Sometimes I wish I'd left it alone...
;-)

[timmay556]

Well the dynamat went in and its definitely quiter.. But now I'm thinking how to get it quieter again haha.. So next step would be closed cell foam?

[Ronin]

yeah closed cell foam will do the job, something like this http://store.secondskinaudio.com/luxury-liner-pro-36-sq-ft-4-sheets/ this one is a mass laoded vinyl barrier with closed cell foam.

[timmay556]

Shipping would be murder to nz I suspect. Hard to find that sort of thing here - bugger.

[BigRAWesty]

Have a look threw the thread I've linked the product I used.
10m2 and I had a peice 450x450 spare.
It covered all outter door skins, fire wall and floor.
Mine is a LWB so don't buy that much if you have a ute..
$200 I think it was delivered

[BigRAWesty]

Here it is..

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm?itemId=251263917315

This stuff is exactly the same as what is used in high end cars and fit outs..

[timmay556]

Just tried that link but no workey. I am also in nz so might keep us sheep shaggers out

Edit: I found it searching that product code, Looks like they dont sell it anymore?

Edit 2: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/301224841696#ht_13784wt_900 looks similar?

[BigRAWesty]

That's the stuff.. But a pit pricey..
I paid $20 a square meter.
But your onto the right stuff

[timmay556]

thanks mate, I ended up getting this instead.
http://jaycar.co.nz/productView.asp?ID=AX3680&w=deadening&form=KEYWORD

[threedogs]

stuff some acoustic batts down your 1/4 panels , you'll be surprised with the difference

[BigRAWesty]

thanks mate, I ended up getting this instead.
http://jaycar.co.nz/productView.asp?ID=AX3680&w=deadening&form=KEYWORD

Was also going to get that stuff untill it was found not to have a self adhesive layer..

[timmay556]

Ive thrown in 8 sheets to the front of the wagon (over the top of the dynamat) on the floor pan and a wee bit up the firewall and it has cut out more of the road noise. only cost 90 bucks and 20$ for a can of spray on adhesive.

[Ronin]

what about this product from Jaycar , seems to combine Buty and Foam

http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=AX3689

[BigRAWesty]

what about this product from Jaycar , seems to combine Buty and Foam

http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=AX3689

I did look at that but it's only 3mm thick..
It woukd be a good half way point.
If your looking for a solid decrease then the only way to do it is mass loading the panels the a good thick layer of sound absorbing material.

[Ronin]

so compared to that, Luxary Liner Pro looks better

Specification
Sheet size = 24" x 54" (9 sq. feet)
Thickness = between 1/4" - 1/2" (.25" .5")
Mass/Area = 1.2 lbs. per sq foot
Total weight per sheet = 10.80 lbs. per sheet

http://store.secondskinaudio.com/luxury-liner-pro-36-sq-ft-4-sheets/

[BigRAWesty]

That does look better on paper..

[GRY60]

has someone done yet a dampenig job for a Y60 gr

[BigRAWesty]

has someone done yet a dampenig job for a Y60 gr

Yep, we've only done y60's

[timmay556]

After what I've done there is a definitely difference how ever the main issue is motor noise for me (td42+t) if I cut that down she would be a silent killer.

[BigRAWesty]

I think that's mission impossible mate. I doubled up the fire wall and still get engine noise. Greatly reduced but it's still there. I'm Na, so turbo should be better

[Goldifox]

I have been through same process with dynamat throughout and main issue is also now engine noise (td4.2 + t) - I am looking at bonet lining to help reduce engine noise and wondering if anyone else has done this and if so what brands and success ?

[BigRAWesty]

The foil lined stuff I used is supposed to be good for bonnet..

[Goldifox]

Thanks Biggqwesty will look into it. Dynamite also has a bonet liner I think
Cbeers

[heyspud]

The foil lined stuff I used is supposed to be good for bonnet..

Hey biggqwesty was there much difference between the insulation ebay stuff you bought compared to the car builders stuff, what was the deciding factor going ebay?
Just curious, looking at doing the same process with the bloke depot in my gu, just unsure on insulation

[BigRAWesty]

Nope. Well not that I could tell.
I received a sample of both, but had the same cell structure, feel and weight.
So apart from the foil top I think the main part, the foam, is identical.
Just one is plastered with brand name and the other is not

[v502]

Dynamat helps and there are the spray on kind, I think they called lizard or something like that cant remeber.

[BigRAWesty]

Dynamat helps and there are the spray on kind, I think they called lizard or something like that cant remeber.

There are heaps of different paint on / spray on types. But all do the minimum.
They take care of the panel loading part but not as much as dynamat does.
This stops vibrations which is the cause for some of the noise, but to stop external noises like tyres engine etc you need that extra thick absorbing barrier, that's were the foam comes into it..

Have a read threw the link in the first page and it's explained in more detail

[BigRAWesty]

I'll also add that the bitumen based products do work but fail in the heat.
The dynamat is butyl based and will hold in for a lot longer

[paulyg]

Just did the front doors both inner and outer skins with the fat max product,
Huge difference to the sound quality, now it sounds like a doof doof mobile.

[BigRAWesty]

It does hey.
Did you do just the rubber part or foam aswell?

[FNQGU]

My experience was that the Car Builders foam was a better quality and denser than the other stuff I got from Clarke Rubber. The adhesive also seemed stronger. I ended up using the Car Builders foam for the floor areas, transmission tunnel etc. and the cheaper stuff on the ceiling. Time will tell I suppose.

Re the Butyl compounds like dynamat and what Westy got from the Bloke Depot on eBay, I honestly couldn't tell the difference. I ran out of Dynamat and Westy sent me some of his leftovers so I have it pretty much side-by-side.

I did dynamat the underside of the bonnet too. Not a complete coverage, but probably 75% as I had left-overs. I reckon it made a difference as well.

[paulyg]

I just used the rubber part, so only a slight improvement in noise reduction,
But I didn't think the GU was to bad anyway.

[SiberianPatrol]

Interesting reads here. I know this is an old thread, but I'm about to start this process with my 99 GU. Except, the goal is thermal insulation instead of just sound dampening. I know there is some overlap between the 2 goals, but thermal insulation is of the utmost importance here in Siberia when dealing with the winter conditions. Will have to post up some progress pix as I get into it.

[BigRAWesty]

Interesting reads here. I know this is an old thread, but I'm about to start this process with my 99 GU. Except, the goal is thermal insulation instead of just sound dampening. I know there is some overlap between the 2 goals, but thermal insulation is of the utmost importance here in Siberia when dealing with the winter conditions. Will have to post up some progress pix as I get into it.

So how did your job finish mate??
I must say I'm still very happy with my end result.
And now three the summer the car ac works much better.. you still get heat coming threw when the car is resting in full sun, and viscera with cold, but the temp changes much quicker and holds much better.. instead of having ac flat out once down to temp it's comfortable on nfan speed 2..

[Shummezz]

Hey Westy, I can't get Dynamat over here but there is a company that can do a spray on rubber liner - same as what you would use in the back of a ute - do you think this would work for some sound deadening if used under the carpets?

[BigRAWesty]

It may.. any material stuck to the body is "mass loading" the pannels, it's just how much mass is added.
I noticed a small difference when I painted my rear 1/4 pannels with the paint on stuff..
It didn't do as good a job as the dynamat but it did something..

[threedogs]

Its an oldie but a goodie is to stuff some
acoustic batts inside the rear 1/4 panels.
You'll be surprised the difference it makes.

[SiberianPatrol]

So how did your job finish mate??
I must say I'm still very happy with my end result.
And now three the summer the car ac works much better.. you still get heat coming threw when the car is resting in full sun, and viscera with cold, but the temp changes much quicker and holds much better.. instead of having ac flat out once down to temp it's comfortable on nfan speed 2..

Westy, sorry I didn't see this until now. Yes the job is finished. I used a product over here called Shumoff - a dense 10mm self-adhesive insulation. Insulated the roof, pillars and sidewalls of the cabin. I didn't do the floor because the GU already had a thick pad and carpet. If it still gets cold, I'll go ahead and do the floor as well. I noticed a definite sound dampening and it so far has held the heat very well in -40C temps. So far I'm very pleased with the results.

[Warwick89]

hey guys,

i'll be adding some sound deadener/thermo proof on the weekend. just wanted to ask if you guys have suggestions on what to paint the floor pan with? really want something that will seal the floor pan but not smell on hot day's.

cheers

[garett]

painter recommended to me use body Schultz. under the car haven't done it yet so cant say how good it is

[Warwick89]

Yeah i was more talking about coating the inside of the cab/floor pan, im interested in a primer/sealer before i lay the matting.