ZD30 Engine Challenge - Intermittent Power Loss

[GU3_P@trol]

A real brain teaser for any ZD30 experts.

About nine months ago the engine started to just stop occasionally (2003 model, 220K kms). It usually happened after a few short trips and about 50-200m from the last stop it would just die! Sometimes it would start again, other times you had to leave it for 10-15mins and it would go again. Didn’t stop every trip out only some!! Can drive to work in the morning and home at the end of the day with no issues? Stop on the way home and it's a different story?

It has a chip and exhaust, so thought it might be a chip issue. Got it ran it on the dyno for $200+ and told me they thought the injector pump was the problem and for $5K it should fix it. Decided to take it to Nissan where for another $300 they ran a full diagnostics, inspected the fuel system and injection pump and couldn't find any problem (no codes had previously been set apparently) and said there was nothing wrong with the injection pump. Kept driving it with random stops still occurring.

The fuel filter has been drained or changed numerous times, fuel lines replaced, connectors checked and cleaned, ran without chip connected (made no difference), cursed at it, kicked it, cleaned airflow sensor etc.

Purchased an ECU Talk reader, works great but no codes have been registered since installed a few weeks ago. Have replaced the Crank Angle (revolution) sensor with no joy :-( And trust me when the wife drives 15 min down the road to buy some fuel then prawns (bless her heart) and it takes her 3 hours to get home due to random stopping there is no joy!

Vehicle still stops randomly after a number of short trips. Sometimes this is just a straight loss of all power, and occasionally it will now miss a few times before shutting down. Still no codes or engine warning light! Today I quickly went on and off the throttle when it started to die and got a few more seconds of life out of the engine before it died. I could also restart straight away and it would idle fine, but would stop when trying to drive (just normal load). Then sat for 5 mins and was able to drive home with no issue??

Hopefully there is someone out there that can help me get this sorted. I know it’s going to cost some money, but I would like have an idea of what could be wrong before I continue to spend money for people to fault find with no idea of what it could be or what it could cost me!!

Cheers

[meh]

Went through exact thing. Injector pump

[GU3_P@trol]

Any specifics on what the exact issue with the injector pump was?

[Sir Roofy]

Could be to much boost and going into limp mode

[meh]

Sensor in the pump.
They put a reconditioned pump in. New lift pump. Crank angle sensor. $4770 all up

[june]

has vehicle got nads? as roofy said it might be going into limp from over boosting.

[GU3_P@trol]

Roofy and June, don't believe it's limp mode. When I say loss of power, I mean the engine actually stops/cuts out. I have had limp mode before and the engine still ran, just with reduced power.

Thanks for the info meh, but when I took it to Nissan suspecting the injector pump, they tested it all and said it was fine??

Will keep on looking.

[boots]

I still think that it's the pump regardless what mr nissan have said. My old mans did the same.

[GU3_P@trol]

Any idea's on how to test or prove that the injector pump is faulty? Not overly keen on spending $4+K without something to give me some level confidence it will solve the problem.

Cheers

[meh]

Have your fuel lines checked for air. Check your fuel tank for gunk.
Oh another easy one to check is your ecu relay that could be faulty

[stumpie]

I had the same problem and mine turned out to be the ecu relay

[GU3_P@trol]

I have replaced all the rubber fuel lines in the engine bay and searched everywhere else for leaks and nothing found. Also, if I check the fuel primer on top of the filter whenever it has stopped, there is always still full pressure in the lines.

I have pulled the ecu relay and it looks to be fine. I also have an EcuTalk gauge fitted that connects to the OBD2 port and I assume it gets all its reading from the ECU. Whenever the car has stopped or played up there is no disruption to the readings on the EcuTalk gauge, so I would assume the ecu relay and ecu are fine if they continue to provide uninterrupted data??

Cheers

[threedogs]

X 2 on the ECU relay one less thing to go wrong,

[Yendor]

Try swapping the ECU relay with the A/C relay under the bonnet.

If the ECU doesn't have power it can't log any problems or disruption in data readings.

Saying that, your problem sounds more likely to be a problem within the electrical circuitry of the injector pump, but swapping the relay will not cost you anyhing to try.

If at some stage it doesn't start try pouring some water over the injector pump and see if it starts.

[GU3_P@trol]

Quick update. Changed the ECU relay for the A/C relay and we haven't had a stoppage since (1 week). Still early days though as it is an intermittent thing, but thanks for all the advice that has got me to this stage.

Cheers

[Yendor]

Thanks for the update. Has your A/C stopped working at any stage or doesn't seem as cold as before the relay swap?.

Please note, the relay swap will not affect the interior fan operation.

It will either stop your A/C from getting cold or maybe not has cold as it was before.

[GU3_P@trol]

Yendor, haven't noticed the aircon not working, but the missus does believe it hasn't been as cold as usual.

Time will tell.

Cheers

[Money-fishing]

Great info guys! Hope all works out for you mate.

[GU3_P@trol]

Unfortunately the saga continues and some more advice needed!!

The vehicle ran fine for a number of months and then a few weeks back went into an underground car park and up and down a few ramps then headed back up the street and lost power again and spluttered and farted and shutdown multiple times on the way home. Next day no problem but thought it might be some crap in the tank that going up and down the ramps stirred up.

So vehicle was running fine again and I pulled the tank - spotless inside except for a small piece of foil from a injector cleaner additive bottle!. Connected the tank back up and here's where the fun begins! Soon as it was started got an engine fault light (77 - P7 code) and seemed to be in limp mode with no power all the time. shutdown and restart with the same result for a number of days. Went back to the tank and pulled the vent pipes that go to and from the check valve and blew all hoses out with air. rotated the check valve a few times to clear any liquid in it. Vehicle started with no engine check light, had full power and went like a dream for a few days. Checked all forums and found nothing on anyone having trouble with the check valves and Nissan said they have hardly ever sold any ($78 each).

Coming home from the Sunshine Coast yesterday the engine check light came on (77 - P7 code) and the engine started to miss and splutter and eventually died. Pulled over, restarted - spluttered and died a few times. Let it sit for 5mins and restarted and drove home with no problem.

The missus is a most unhappy camper and I'm unsure where to go next!! Any thoughts?

[threedogs]

Could it possible be the ECU relay you swapped with the air con is faulty as well.
Buy 2x new relays and see how you go. disconnect and clean battery terminals with a scourer.
Someone asked on another thread , where is the ECU relay located?

[GU3_P@trol]

I have already put a new ECU relay in (after the swap worked I wanted to make sure so purchased a new one). Battery terminals and earth points have all been scoured and cleaned.

The ECU relay is above the fuse panel on the drivers RH side. You need to remove the trim panel to get good access (it is the very top relay).

[threedogs]

So all relays are new ,battery terminals, clean, earths all re-done.
Have you tried running an extra earth from battery to body and battery to Motor??
Just throwing stuff out there

[GU3_P@trol]

threedogs - no for the extra earths but at this stage am willing to give anything a go.

More than happy for any ideas.

Cheers

[mudski]

I'd be finding out whar fault 77 is... Unless you know.

[stumpie]

A quick check run engine and move the relay side to side a few times if engine stalls spray and work in and out then try again, cant hurt and no cost.

[Yendor]

Unfortunately the saga continues and some more advice needed!!

The vehicle ran fine for a number of months and then a few weeks back went into an underground car park and up and down a few ramps then headed back up the street and lost power again and spluttered and farted and shutdown multiple times on the way home. Next day no problem but thought it might be some crap in the tank that going up and down the ramps stirred up.

So vehicle was running fine again and I pulled the tank - spotless inside except for a small piece of foil from a injector cleaner additive bottle!. Connected the tank back up and here's where the fun begins! Soon as it was started got an engine fault light (77 - P7 code) and seemed to be in limp mode with no power all the time. shutdown and restart with the same result for a number of days. Went back to the tank and pulled the vent pipes that go to and from the check valve and blew all hoses out with air. rotated the check valve a few times to clear any liquid in it. Vehicle started with no engine check light, had full power and went like a dream for a few days. Checked all forums and found nothing on anyone having trouble with the check valves and Nissan said they have hardly ever sold any ($78 each).

Coming home from the Sunshine Coast yesterday the engine check light came on (77 - P7 code) and the engine started to miss and splutter and eventually died. Pulled over, restarted - spluttered and died a few times. Let it sit for 5mins and restarted and drove home with no problem.

The missus is a most unhappy camper and I'm unsure where to go next!! Any thoughts?

DTC 707 can be set by a blocked fuel filter or air being sucked in the fuel lines.

[joejtss]

The relay swap made a marked improvement for nearly 4 months did you have any stoppages in that time?

[threedogs]

Why not replace all fuel line and return lines,
cost wouldn't be huge IMO
Then you can tick that box, one less thing

[Sir Roofy]

Any chance that theres nothing sucked into
the fuel line
the way ive read it sounds like air a bit like seals drying out
in the pump or filter it is your daily or does it sit around till the next trip

[GU3_P@trol]

Thanks for the comments all.

mudski, the 77 or P7 code is listed as F/INJ TF / B or Injection Pump injection timing control - which can be either air/contaminants in the fuel or the injector pump (or so I have been told).

Stumpie - I have either removed/replaced or wriggled that relay so many times it's not funny with no impact to the engine running!

yendor - agree and have worked really hard to ensure there are no leaks or air in the system. The fuel filter primer is really firm, and don't know how to check any other way. looking to possibly get a clear hose from the injector pump return or filter output to injector pump to see if there are any air bubbles.

joejtss - No stoppages for about 3 months after the relay replaced - only started to run rough and die after going up and down fairly steer ramps in a car park then didn't stop again until the other day (just ran like crap for a few days after removing the tank)!

threedogs - done pretty much all the rubber hoses - haven't replaced the metal fuel lines.

roofy - it gets driven almost every day and the fact the fault is so intermittent is the frustrating bit. Have driven it almost every day since the last incident for both short and medium trips with no issue!! Doesn't fill me with any confidence to go hit the tracks with it though. Was going to hit Landcruiser Park on saturday with my son (he also has an 03 Patrol - it just doesn't breakdown as he loves to inform me!!) but the last thing I want is to breakdown halfway up a hill out in the bush so looks like we'll just take his.

I agree with those that think it's a air in the fuel issue and will keep working to try and get it sorted, but there have also been a number of comments and also problems on other forum posts that are similar that wree resolved by replacing the injector pump- bloody expensive maybe though!

Cheers

[Yendor]

It's strange that DTC 707 only started setting after you had the fuel tank out. This points towards something you may have disturbed while the tank was out. Possibly you might have two problems now??

You might want to look at installing an electric lift pump down near the fuel tank.

Pressurising the fuel lines should make it easier to see any leaks and the added pressure to the injector pump may also help it.

[GU3_P@trol]

Yendor - Agree that a lift pump may help fault find. Any recommendation on a lift pump brand / model?

As for the 77 (P7) code we had it previously before the ecu relay change also but then nothing for a few months until going up and down the carpark ramps (we had the code as the it was running rough), then nothing for a few weeks until the fuel tank removal!! There is no logic to when the code appears.

[stumpie]

Have you tried adding some 2stroke oil to your fuel, there is a thread of the benefits somewhere.

[GU3_P@trol]

stumpie - A fuel lubricant could help and I found the threads and the general consensus seems to be it's only really beneficial for the 4.2. The 2 stroke might also stuff the catalytic converter.

[HV2002]

Hi guys im only a newbie but any chance the interemittent nature could be from the formation of a vapour lock in the fule line

[GU3_P@trol]

HV2002 - I can only hope that's what it was and it's now gone!

Truck has run fine for the last week with no problems - we'll see how long we go this time until something happens!!

[nipagu7]

hi guys . I might be clutching at straws here but !!! I believe there might be a small , fine , strainer where the fuel line goes into the injector pump . maybe this is at the point of blocking up . at this point I think it would be worth checking to see if it needs a clean . just my 2 cents worth . ray.

[Sprock]

Nipagu7 - I was told that aswell so had a look but no - been told only on 4.2d . Pardon my delayed input ( similar problems so trawling the threads )

[Rumcajs]

I see you have ECUTalk display, what is the ICV% read out normally and when it starts going pear shaped?

If IP IVC% are bellow 50% most of the time you have either air in the fuel or fuel starvation somewhere. Anything bellow 30% on warmed up engine means big trouble!

I do urge you to install additional lift pump anyway even if you have to ultimately replace the IP. This error is common and main culprit is the pump's internal ECU/controller. What happens is due to heat (it uses fuel to cool and lubricate as well so any fuel starvation will ruin the pump) the circuit board can break the contact or snap the links. Google Youtube videos about failed VP44 pump ECUs. Last firmware update for ECUTalk can show fuel temperature as well, going consistently over 65°C is not good perhaps consider fuel cooler on return and never run the tank bellow 1/3. The large volume of fuel recirculated around to keep temperature down means that less fuel available the hotter it will get.

Because it is so intermittent I suspect it is electronics fail not mechanical/hydraulic.

Good luck

Cheers

[Sprock]

MATE !! I've been havin the EXACT

[Sprock]

MATE ! I've been having the EXACT same problems / Symtoms - power loss , code 77 fuel injection timing etc , was told injector pump but like you didn't want to spend that kind of money & still not fix the problem , after much trial & error - inspecting tank - clean , pressuring fuel lines - no leaks , I then discovered primer pump on top of filter housing was hard after 1 pump whereas a few mates with same engine said they'd have to pump there's a dozen times - anyway I bypassed the standard filter / housing with a Ryco inline filter & fixed it straight away !!!! What a fukn relief I telya . Ran it for a month with NO dramas - put it back to standard & 2 days later the problems started again . Wanted to pull housing apart to see what's happening in the there but it's pressed together so I wrapped a white rag around the outlet to catch anything & blew into the inlet with the compressor , found nothing but it's been hooked up back through standard filter now for months & NO dramas . Hope this helps . & yes I put about 6 or 8 filters on it - both free market & genuine Nissan .

[Sprock]

HA ! Just saw your original post was 2 years ago so if you haven't fixed it by now you'd have burnt it.

[mazeem82]

MATE ! I've been having the EXACT same problems / Symtoms - power loss , code 77 fuel injection timing etc , was told injector pump but like you didn't want to spend that kind of money & still not fix the problem , after much trial & error - inspecting tank - clean , pressuring fuel lines - no leaks , I then discovered primer pump on top of filter housing was hard after 1 pump whereas a few mates with same engine said they'd have to pump there's a dozen times - anyway I bypassed the standard filter / housing with a Ryco inline filter & fixed it straight away !!!! What a fukn relief I telya . Ran it for a month with NO dramas - put it back to standard & 2 days later the problems started again . Wanted to pull housing apart to see what's happening in the there but it's pressed together so I wrapped a white rag around the outlet to catch anything & blew into the inlet with the compressor , found nothing but it's been hooked up back through standard filter now for months & NO dramas . Hope this helps . & yes I put about 6 or 8 filters on it - both free market & genuine Nissan .

I sent you a dm please