Fan Clutch Removal - How to get this thing off?

[modustollens]

I have been having problems with the radiator fan. I made a report about this here: http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?21481-Squealing-Noise!

It is now so loose that it is wobbling and making a terrible noise. So, I went to take it off last night.

I looked at the GQ manual I downloaded here, section 3-3. It seemed a simple procedure that my skill level out to have no problem with. But, I could not find the four nuts that retain the fan to the water pump - or, at the least, I was not sure what four nuts are being referred to and the image in the manual is too dark to see what I am supposed to be looking for. Here is an image of the manual's instructions:

http://www.imagerocket.net/photos/1380166680_fan_clutch.jpg

Those four retaining bolts - where are they?

The only four bolts I could see are the four bolts of the fan belt pulley. Are these synonymous with the fan clutch retaining bolts? Must I remove the fan belt pulley to get the fan off? The manual says nothing of this and the picture above of what I was to be looking for is unclear. I am at a loss about how to get this thing off.

I can feel the bolts that retain the fan to the fan clutch assembly/temp-coupler (as seen in figure 4.7 on page 3-7 of the gq manual). Perhaps there is a different method for the 2.8 TD engine?

Looking at some other diagrams, for example this one:

http://www.imagerocket.net/photos/1380167951_fan_clutch2.jpg

It looks like there is a part between the temp-coupling or the metal assembly in the middle of the fan and the fan belt pulley - I cannot see anything on my machine that connects that metal temp-coupling to the pulley.

I was assuming that the fan would slip on the end of the shaft and to remove it one would unscrew something and pull it toward the radiator and off the shaft. But there does not seem to be anything removable on the front or radiator side of the fan. The fan assembly floats freely over the shaft back and forth about 1/2 inch.

It is possible too that the fan that is on there is not the original part.

Any advice would be welcome!

Thanks

MT

[Bloodyaussie]

Not hard mate. .. 4 x10mm nuts.

34647

[Bloodyaussie]

And here
34648

[modustollens]

Not hard mate. .. 4 x10mm nuts.

34647

There is something odd with my machine for sure. My fan does not have that part with the four holes.

All I have is the plastic fan and the metal part that the plastic fan is mounted too. There is nothing connecting the fan to the pulley.

When the four bolts are removed, is the fan supposed to simply slide off the end of the shaft? I wonder why my fan would not slip off the end of the shaft when there is nothing connecting the fan to pulley or even to the shaft itself!

I'll snap a picture of what my looks like...

Thanks for that picture - that's exactly what I needed.

That second picture is even better! There is nothing like that on my machine at all.

This leads me wonder even more why the fan won't come off the shaft!

MT

[Wine_maker]

Hi modustollens!

Here the our RD28T scheme.

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=34650

It is a little bit different from TD42 that Bloodyaussie posted.

The fun mounted using 4 nuts inside the fan.

[Bloodyaussie]

Looks the same to me......

[modustollens]

Thanks wine-maker.

I looked at the Russian diagram too for I have a copy of the redbook.

I marked the diagram to show the part that is missing on my machine:

http://www.imagerocket.net/photos/1380181507_fan3.JPG

That piece that joins the fan via the four bolts is definitely not there. So, I am at a loss as to how the fan is prevented from coming off the shaft.

After those four bolts are removed what must one normally do to remove the fan or does it just slide off the end of the shaft?

Both of those diagrams don't show a shaft at all that runs through the pulley...

Mt

Thanks,

MT

[Wine_maker]

After removing those four bolts the plastic fan will be disconnected from visco.
But how viscous mount on the pulley?
May be you can made a photo?

[modustollens]

Here's a couple of snaps form the phone:

http://www.imagerocket.net/photos/1380192054_IMG_20130926_161832a.jpg

http://www.imagerocket.net/photos/1380192054_IMG_20130926_161906b.jpg

I put a hose clamp on the shaft to stop the massive amount of vibrations - it works to reduce it by about 30 percent but it won't last and it loosens after a while. There is, as you can see, nothing on the fan for bolting or securing it to either the shaft or the pully/water pump assembly in front. I don't even see how the mounting bracket for the fan would attach to the fan.

You can see how the hole for the fan is way bigger than the shaft - it wobbles up and down and from left to right.

Any ideas?

MT

[Wine_maker]

Wow! It is something new, visco and pulley is not coincidence of centers.
I'm not sure is it original part from Nissan?
May be easiest way is to change the visco + pulley to original Nissan?
Also I think that after vibration the water pumps bearing will die soon.

[Bloodyaussie]

Wow! It is something new, visco and pulley is not coincidence of centers.
I'm not sure is it original part from Nissan?
May be easiest way is to change the visco + pulley to original Nissan?
Also I think that after vibration the water pumps bearing will die soon.

Yeah never seen that set up and not sure... might ask Krbrooking to take a pic of his as he has a 2.8.

Thats got me stumped?

[oncedisturbed]

that can't be healthy being off centre like that

[modustollens]

I agree that the vibrations that happen could have bad consequences. Plus, when the hose clamp is not on the amount of movement is great enough that the fan blades smash into the plastic radiator shroud.

It is a small space too so it is hard to peek in and see what is still holding the fan on. Perhaps I shall have to cut it off and find a replacement part or take it back to the shop and get the guy who put it on to take it off.

MT

[rkinsey]

Here's a couple of snaps form the phone:

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/

I put a hose clamp on the shaft to stop the massive amount of vibrations - it works to reduce it by about 30 percent but it won't last and it loosens after a while. There is, as you can see, nothing on the fan for bolting or securing it to either the shaft or the pully/water pump assembly in front. I don't even see how the mounting bracket for the fan would attach to the fan.

You can see how the hole for the fan is way bigger than the shaft - it wobbles up and down and from left to right.

Any ideas?

MT

That looks like the Viscus Clutch has sheered off to me. Not sure how stretched for time you are but I would try and take the whole lot off to inspect for damage to all parts including the water pump. You definitely do not want to overheat and cook the motor.

Just my two cents worth...

Cheers,

Rob

[BigRAWesty]

That looks like the Viscus Clutch has sheered off to me. Not sure how stretched for time you are but I would try and take the whole lot off to inspect for damage to all parts including the water pump. You definitely do not want to overheat and cook the motor.

Just my two cents worth...

Cheers,

Rob

I think your onto something there. That's not right.. You might as well pull the radiator out as you'll be replacing the pump..

[modustollens]

Thanks guys. The engine was only installed a few months ago and I have not driven it a lot; and it has been only a week with this vibration/noise problem - though there is more noise than vibration. The temperature is always around 1/4 of the way up the temp scale. No signs of overheating yet but I like to stay ahead of problems. I don't think there is any damage, yet.

What I am interested in learning is how the fan assembly comes off once the four bolts of the viscous clutch are removed. Assume I have that clutch. Assume I have the four bolts removed. Now what?

Should the whole assembly slide forward on that shaft? The fan will not go back toward the pulley nor will it slide off the end of the shaft. Perhaps there is a cap or pin on the front side of the fan?

Perhaps its time for a hack-saw or a torch?

MT

[Wine_maker]

This is photo of mine.
Sorry for quality of photo it is made using a radiator cup lol

Agree that it is better to change the whole part.

Also, I think your visco isn't work properly. They just drilled the whole and tighten it to the shaft with bolt.

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=34674

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=34675

[modustollens]

Thanks. I don't think there was a visco there at all! Do you think it will be easy to get this part here in Semey? The plastic fan is cracked too. So, maybe I can just cut it off or go back to the shop and see how those guys secured it when they installed the engine. I offered those guys the Russian engine service manual but the were offended by that saying 'they knew what they were doing.' Seems doubtful now that given the devil that hides in the details.

Thanks,

MT

[rkinsey]

Thanks guys. The engine was only installed a few months ago and I have not driven it a lot; and it has been only a week with this vibration/noise problem - though there is more noise than vibration. The temperature is always around 1/4 of the way up the temp scale. No signs of overheating yet but I like to stay ahead of problems. I don't think there is any damage, yet.

What I am interested in learning is how the fan assembly comes off once the four bolts of the viscous clutch are removed. Assume I have that clutch. Assume I have the four bolts removed. Now what?

Should the whole assembly slide forward on that shaft? The fan will not go back toward the pulley nor will it slide off the end of the shaft. Perhaps there is a cap or pin on the front side of the fan?

Perhaps its time for a hack-saw or a torch?

MT

Drop the radiator, shroud and then take some photos of it for us. Should put some more light on the subject.

I have the RD28T as well so I will take some pics of the fan assembly from the front if I can in teh morning and post them up if you like.

Might be able to see it better from a different angle.

Cheers,

Rob

[Wine_maker]

I called to Nissan Part shop here in Almaty.

Prise list for original parts on stock:
Visco clutch - 33 500 tg (218 USD)
Fan - 13 500 tg (88 USD)
Puley - 25 500 tg (166 USD)
Water pump - 9 800 tg (64 USD)

But I don't know how easy to find it in Semey. In bad case I can buy it for you and send by train or bus.

But before buy something, you should go to those mechanics and ask them how it can happened? I thing it is they fault and they should remain you money for parts and works.

[modustollens]

That's good news - at least the parts are available and not too expensive. I'll see if I can get the old one off somehow.

The vibrations and noise are only really noticeable at idle. Once it spins up fast it is imperceptible. I am afraid that the fan assembly could blow apart and send shrapnel around.

Thanks,
MT

[Wine_maker]

If you roll newspaper and put it in the fan when idling will it decrease the fan rotation speed?
If visco clutch is die fun will stop. If fun will cutting newspaper it means it works properly or it is trigged.

[modustollens]

I would think yes - it seems to be freely floating on the shaft. It will turn either way. So I suspect any resistance placed on the fan will stop or slow its rotation when the engine is running.

MT

[Wine_maker]

BUT! My friend, winter in near!
With bad fun your engine will warming much faster! LOL

[modustollens]

I finally got the thing off! It appears to be a normal part so I definitely missed something. Anyway, the engine runs a little warmer when idling but not appreciably. I drove about 30 km on the highway at 80kph and the temp was normal; though once I turned off-road and stopped it warmed up a bit (obviously the latent heat from the highway); but it soon cooled down once I was moving on the steppe's dirt track.

Anyway, there are still many issues with this old, neglected machine but it gets me to work and back and gives some fun on the weekend. There are a tonne of electrical problems, the inside interior is a mess - like and old farm truck - I doubt the clutch and brake fluids have been changed in 20 years. I still need work on my manual glow relays - I wonder if enough power is going to them - how many amps should the second glow relay draw?

There is some voltage leaks too and I often disconnect the battery overnight. The dashboard had a major short circuit one time and was smoking - no flames though; an electrician rewired it but in such a way that the battery is always on. Not sure if that is worth addressing given how much of a mess the wiring is in. I don't want to spend a lot of money fixing this old thing though labour costs for mechanics here in Semey, Kazakhstan are peanuts - not sure how much they charge per hour of work but I bet it is less than 10 dollars an hour. Wine-maker - do you know the hourly rate or do they even charge by the hour? The labour to pull out the old engine and put in the new one was only 300 dollars. The mechanics here - Russian speakers - used google translate to tell me my machine is "an old bucket of bolts."

I should take it in and get all the fluids replaced. At the least the new engine I put in it runs really well. It starts a little rough when cold (hence I wonder if enough power is going to the busbar) but after 5 minutes it is smooth and after it warms up for 1/2 hour or so it has a good kick. It would be nice to ride in a well-maintained machine just to get a good comparison. Anyway, this machine was the only 4x4 near the budget I had set and it was still higher than what I had originally wanted to spend.

The question now is how cold will it get before it will be too cold to run given that I don't have a place to store it inside and there is no power outlet where I park for a block heater and an intermittent auto-start is out of the question given that all the starting relays must be tripped using manual switches I have wired up into the dash.

The oil in there now is 10w-30; perhaps as it gets colder I should replace that with a lighter oil? I would like to drive all winter but I suspect when it gets below -40 c - and it certainly will get much lower than that - I will be taking a taxi to work and back and have no fun driving on the weekends.

Thanks for the help guys! Once of these days I will make a good video documentary of this old machine which, to be honest, I rescued from the scrap heap!

MT

[Wine_maker]

Hi!

Do you driving without fan at all?

Sorry, can’t help you with second relays amps. Electrical issues is scaring me lol.

I hope, you have a big fire extinguisher or two in the boot after smoke under dash panel.

Why shouldn’t you change your Patrol to another in better condition? Here, in Kazakhstan cars prices doesn’t falls fast from year to year. You can buy this http://kolesa.kz/a/show/12563117 for 18 000$ and after 2 years of not extreme riding sell it for 16 500 - 18 000 $ in good condition.
Many little fixes in your old, with prices 100-200$ in the long run will be much more than costs of maintenance of new one.

Cost per hour counts only in major or official car service stations. In small service stations they take in to account only price for whole works. It is doesn’t matter works will busy 2 hours or 7 hours costs will be the same.

Google translator – connecting people LOL. Next time, say him that your car much better than new Lada Niva. Because Niva, became rust bucket of bolts after 2 years of usual city use.

Manual glow plugs switch is better and faster decision in your case.

I use Liqui Moly 10W40, but our winter not colder than -25. Usually -3 / -10. Your new engine also not so new for using light oil. I think the pressure will be low in working temperature range.

Sorry for my curve English.

[modustollens]

Yes - I am driving without the fan. The engine is about one needle width warmer than it was with the fan, only now there is far less vibration and noise.

I'll keep working on the glow relay; though I think I need to understand more how it is supposed to work before I can manually control it. For example, does the first glow relay heat the glow plugs only at the start or does it occasionally heat depending on temperature? I was wondering if my manual secondary relay is making the plugs warm enough. Still, this morning, the glow plug indicator light only flashed for about 3-4 minutes; so, it warmed up pretty quickly.

That patrol you linked to is very nice; but, I can't afford to have that much money tied up in a car - lots of bills to pay back home; indeed, I had to double what I had wanted to spend when I first moved here given that the cars here are very expensive. Plus, I did not want a passenger car - the roads in Semey are like a war zone and I want to be able to get out to the countryside - an escape from the city! So, my options were limited. This old patrol was the cheapest 4x4 that did not look like it would snap in half if I hit one of the many holes in the road here in Semey.

I need to find a good source of used parts for my old machine and slowly fix it up - maybe I can sell it for a good price when I leave here? It is in far better condition than when I bought it, that's for sure.

Today I went to shop and bought a new air filter and I had the fellows at the garage put the machine on the lift and check the differential oil and transmission oil. Plus I had them grease all the grease fittings on the steering mechanism, the grease fitting on the front wheels and on the drive shaft.

I don't need this machine to be pretty or even run perfectly - but it has to be reliable - I don't want to get stuck in the middle of nowhere!

Thanks,

MT

[Wine_maker]

According to manual

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=34800

First glow relay heating glowing plugs depending of time with 2 second pauses – third draft.
The second relay called – heat holder relay.
Also plugs working only if temperature of cooler less than 75 degree.
So, we can suppose that heating time is not depending from outboard temperature and depend only from temp of cooler.
Mine plugs always works constant time +40 or -20 outboard.

But, I’m not electrician so I can make a mistake.

This GU is just for example and I agree, the price is high. Look around for nice GQ with price around 7 000-8 000$ without major problem. I think it is possible to find one. For example like this http://kolesa.kz/a/show/12564702 actual price will be 8 500$ I suppose.

Roads in whole CIS are similar. For example Federal road in Siberia

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2013/09/166.jpg
and
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2013/09/167.jpg

of course this is the worst case at all, but some of them are somewhere near this.

What is good price?

For example the cheapest Patrol in KZ is http://kolesa.kz/a/show/12501602 but actual price for it will be 5 200$ I think.

[modustollens]

There are a few roads like that here in Semey and I have taken great pleasure getting my machine covered in mud. The city roads flood with water with even a slight rain, so it is nice to be high up. The city roads are actually rougher than the country roads though. There are massive holes and rocks and broken pavement everywhere.

That is a good diagram - I looked for it in the English manual and found it - that it not in the 2.8td engine supplement but I found it in one of the other manuals.

I paid less than 5000 for the truck I have now - but it had a major problem, though the replacement engine solved that. I suspect I paid too much and could have haggled the price lower, though I did get it much lower than what he asked This was before I found out about Koleza too, which would have given me more market information. Still, I was trying to stay within my budget; My machine will sell, but for how much? I have already had people asking me about that. Either way, having a machine is better than no machine; and it will cost money for the latter.

Thanks for the help.

MT