GU patrol power mood swings

[Hodge]

What would cause the power to fluctuate everynow and then ??
For a while now I've been noticing my patrol's very moody when it comes to power. Sometime's it's like me on monday mornings, other times it loves to get up and dance.
I've been trying to pin point factor's which may cause it. Weather, fuel, if the car's warmed up yet or not, etc... But it's a mixed bag of results, nothing really lines up with sluggish behaviour.

This morning for example, drove it for 45 minutes and it had plenty to give. On the way back, it's as if it's running on 2 cylinders, feels very sluggish. Then, half an hour later drove it again, and it's back to it's normal self. It's just very odd and annoying. I'm not talking great amounts of power missing, but it is definitely there for me to notice the difference.
After I got the exhaust fitted, I didn't get it tuned or anything, but my mechanic recommended I get it done to get everything else up to speed with the larger exhaust, and he reckons mine is definitely overboosting. My gauges aren't fitted yet so I can't monitor anything so I don't know whats happening.
I'm just brainstorming but could it be the MAF sending weird messages to the ECU ? I've got the spray cleaner (CRC), just didn't get around using it yet.

[P4trol]

I would definitely say it is the engine computer affecting it. Whether it is because a sensor is not connected or faulty or affected by some condition like heat soak, I don't know.

[threedogs]

Wouldn't think you are going into limp mode, as the CRD are very tolerant of higher boost levels.
Disconnect the battery and clean the MAF sensor just left of the Air cleaner, re-install when dry.
Check all your vacuum lines for splits or just brittle. Do you have any blowing smoke issues.
might want to change your fuel filter if its been a while.
Maybe its time to fit your gauges to monitor engine function, one less thing

[Clunk]

Get your gauges on and get it tuned

[MEGOMONSTER]

What would cause the power to fluctuate everynow and then ??
For a while now I've been noticing my patrol's very moody when it comes to power. Sometime's it's like me on monday mornings, other times it loves to get up and dance.
I've been trying to pin point factor's which may cause it. Weather, fuel, if the car's warmed up yet or not, etc... But it's a mixed bag of results, nothing really lines up with sluggish behaviour.

This morning for example, drove it for 45 minutes and it had plenty to give. On the way back, it's as if it's running on 2 cylinders, feels very sluggish. Then, half an hour later drove it again, and it's back to it's normal self. It's just very odd and annoying. I'm not talking great amounts of power missing, but it is definitely there for me to notice the difference.
After I got the exhaust fitted, I didn't get it tuned or anything, but my mechanic recommended I get it done to get everything else up to speed with the larger exhaust, and he reckons mine is definitely overboosting. My gauges aren't fitted yet so I can't monitor anything so I don't know whats happening.
I'm just brainstorming but could it be the MAF sending weird messages to the ECU ? I've got the spray cleaner (CRC), just didn't get around using it yet.

I have had similar type experiences but I wouldn't call it sluggish.
Just some days are zippier than others.
Like the difference between No.5 and No.7 on the DPChip.

[Yendor]

I would start by replacing the fuel filter and check for contaminates.

If it still plays up, get the fuel pressure relief valve checked.

[Hodge]

Wouldn't think you are going into limp mode, as the CRD are very tolerant of higher boost levels.
Disconnect the battery and clean the MAF sensor just left of the Air cleaner, re-install when dry.
Check all your vacuum lines for splits or just brittle. Do you have any blowing smoke issues.
might want to change your fuel filter if its been a while.
Maybe its time to fit your gauges to monitor engine function, one less thing

Thanks TD. I'll begin by cleaning the MAF first. No blowing smoke issues, unless I really hammer it, I'll see a little bit then. Fuel filter was replaced 2 months ago, and have since only been filling up at local servo with a large turn-over so, that's unlikely to be contaminated, but never say never.
Being not too mech-minded, I don't fully understand how vacuum lines would affect performance? When I got the car, I realized my clutch was very stiff sometimes, when Nissan had a look at it they thought it could be the vacuum lines. So there is a possibility something is going pear-shaped in that part.

[threedogs]

The vacuum lines are all the small rubber hoses going to turbo actuator and vacuum solenoid just left of air filter box.
should be 3 outlets from memory.
As Yendor mentions contaminates,,,, was the fuel filter dirty when changed,
if running tank right down could be sucking up crud from bottom of tank

[mudski]

Like TD said. Clean the MAF. But if its foobar the cleaner will do jack. What mods have you got besides the zorst? Dawes and needle valve? EGR block?
Could be a number of things. A vacuum leak may cause this but a Faulty MAF could too....

[Clunk]

But wouldn't a decrease in back pressure from having a larger diameter exhaust do this?

[Hodge]

The vacuum lines are all the small rubber hoses going to turbo actuator and vacuum solenoid just left of air filter box.
should be 3 outlets from memory.
As Yendor mentions contaminates,,,, was the fuel filter dirty when changed,
if running tank right down could be sucking up crud from bottom of tank

Yup I was aware where they were, and that in some form they trigger the actuator, but just wasn't 100% sure. Not sure on fuel filter, as I didn't ask after nissan replaced it during last service.


Like TD said. Clean the MAF. But if its foobar the cleaner will do jack. What mods have you got besides the zorst? Daes and needle valve? EGR block?
Could be a number of things. A vacuum leak may cause this but a Faulty MAF could too....
Nothing except the 2.75 beaudesert exhaust. Other than that engine is stock as rock.


But wouldn't a decrease in back pressure from having a larger diameter exhaust do this?

Sure would, but why is it intermittent, is what I'm curious about.

There could be a whole range of potential issues here at play. Like I said above, nissan suggested clutch helper is controlled by vaccum and issues with hoses could be the issue, but they didn't have a look. Also, after my exhaust was fitted, I had the car looked at for a potential exhaust or manifold leak, but nothing's come out of that.

I just took the car for a spin just then, for about 15 minutes to grab a pizza, and she absolutely flew... Maybe it likes the dark.

[threedogs]

Crisp night air is awesome for driving, you'd swear black and blue it was a different 4x4

[Hodge]

Crisp night air is awesome for driving, you'd swear black and blue it was a different 4x4

Sure is, over the winter just gone, some morning's it was such an experience driving to work. Plenty of power! But in hindsight, the other warm day we had when it was 25, so warmer than usual, she still behaved the same, plenty of power. And then few hours later, it's as if she retires a few cylnders.

[mudski]

Exhaust wouldn't cause this. If it did, everyone would have this issue I would think. Check the MAF, clean it and judge it from there. But being intermittent it sounds like a MAF issue.

[P4trol]

I know exactly what you mean (have a similar thing happen to mine. Except it sort of seems tied to heat - heat soak and a hot afternoon and it's a slug).

But I haven't found why.

[happygu]

All my diesels, including the 4.2, and 3Litre Di's and CRD's have shown this characteristic, and I think it has a lot to do with the amount of moisture in the air....

Mic

[kevin07]

how about checking the ic pipes are tight enough I found loose hoses on mine when having seemingly the same problem, also get and ultragauge set that up and see what your boost is doing but I cannot see that it would be overboosting.ps with the ultraguage get the windscreen holder.kev

[fishnsurf]

I recon clean and or test the maf with a multi meter.... Similar prob I had once .... It was the maf .... Cheers

[Hodge]

Just cleaned the MAF, and I"m not sure how clean this thing is mean to be but mine isn't looking very pretty by my standards. I sprayed it pretty good and let it dry. Battery still off, so haven't driven it yet.

http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/4294/b79k.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img163/5370/oudy.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img14/4573/t3tz.jpg

[kevin07]

if that is what it looks like after you have cleaned it then that's not good do you have a friend or something whos maf you could try

[Hodge]

if that is what it looks like after you have cleaned it then that's not good do you have a friend or something whos maf you could try

Yeh I figured it's no good that way I just wasn't sure. The spray didn't take a lot off of it.
Might just contact mudski and grab a new one. Makes me somewhat worried, how it got that dirty in the first place.

[threedogs]

You are spraying the wire on the Maf, eh.
If you do it over a clean rag you see results.
What area you in ?? Got spare Maf here but going away Friday
Or see Mudski never hurts to have two MAF

[Hodge]

You are spraying the wire on the Maf, eh.
If you do it over a clean rag you see results.
What area you in ?? Got spare Maf here but going away Friday
Or see Mudski never hurts to have two MAF

I sprayed the whole lot mate, inside where the wire is, outside where the shiny plate is. Thanks a lot for the offer mate, I might just grab one of mudski since he's around the corner from me. Will send him a PM now.

[Hodge]

Alright, I dropped the new MAF in this morning and drove around for a little while, and I couldn't get it to be sluggish like it sometimes used to. Fingers crossed the new MAF has solved the issue. Will keep an eye out on it over the coming days.
I'm a tad confused though. Reading in some other MAF & EGR related discussions, it's mentioned that MAF can get oil residue on it and in turn give out wrong readings. My old MAF had crap on it, but no traces of oil it was dry. How is it even possible for oil to backtrack from turbo to MAF ? Air is sucked in towards the turbo. Snorkel > filter > MAF > turbo. Am I missing something here ?
http://imageshack.us/a/img545/5216/b99s.jpg

[boots]

Hodge , when the engine is hot and oil is hot and you turn your engine off your crankcase oil vapours and residue will take the easiest path to the atmosphere , hence a bit of muck can build up towards the air filter and housing . If your curious how much crankcase pressure these engines make , take it for a drive and get it to running temp , idle it down for a minute and unsrew your oil fill cap , put your hand over the hole , they work hard I can assure you . Buy yourself a provent 200 catchcan and fit it on , I have and they are a great thing .

[Hodge]

Thanks for the insight boots. Tried it today and I see what you mean.

In other news my plot thickens. New maf went in Monday. The cars been running fine since, but no different to before reckon... Until today.
Today all day it was so responsive and had that much go, it literally have goose bumps. And I've done or changed nothing since Monday.
If it's not the maf ... Then the only other thing that could vary is the ECU ?

[boots]

Scanguage fitted or boost pressure guage ? Very curious to know what that side of things is up to ? Your intercooler could be leaking also ?

[threedogs]

Yeah x2 have you any gauges fitted , best way to figure out whats going on
You may have heaps of boost one day and bugger all the next.
Hard to hold boost if IC is leaking/oily

[Hodge]

I have the gauges. But I'm waiting for the A pillar pod for the gauges now. Hence why they're not fitted. A soon as it arrives they're going in so I can see what's happening.
IC is not leaking as checked by mechanic about 2 months ago. Oily? I've popped the MAP sensor off the IC and there was a film of oil underneath it, but I haven't had the IC off yet personally to have a good look.
Even if the IC is leaking, I still find it hard to imagine why there would be such a alternating difference in power. Like today it ran like a million bucks, I feel like just jumping in it right now and driving it just because it felt so good before. In contrast to yesterday for example, it's as if I've all of a sudden added a turbo to a n/a car. :S

[Hodge]

Just plugged in the OBD scan before and went for a drive. Don't know how accurate it is, but boost maxed around 22 what looks like it to me...
http://imageshack.com/a/img854/5189/k1qz.png

[mudski]

Get the gauges in mate, then get put a dawes and needle valve in. Install a catch can, then block the EGR. Some say CRD's on't need a Dawes but atleas with a Dawes fitted, you get to decide on your max boost and with a needle valve in you can control the spool up rate of the turbo and get it going even better.
But block the EGR last after everything. As blocking the egr you may get some boost increase and with a dawes fitted you can control it, the ECU won't know what the hell is going on and play funny buggers. Actually, check to see if the EGR is already blocked. You never know, it maybe already....

[Hodge]

That is the very plan mate. 3rd day in a row now she's been going good, so fingers crossed it's the new MAF doing it's thing. Will be in touch probably next week to get the rest of the bits 'n pieces of you, if in stock and then I can get the show going and get it all fitted.

[mudski]

That is the very plan mate. 3rd day in a row now she's been going good, so fingers crossed it's the new MAF doing it's thing. Will be in touch probably next week to get the rest of the bits 'n pieces of you, if in stock and then I can get the show going and get it all fitted.
Got it all in stock mate. Unless I sell out between now and then....sounds like the MAF was the culprit. I keep a spare in my glove box, albeit a faulty spare, but it works fine until you give it a boot full. But good enough to keep the car going if ever needed.
So now each time you servie the car, remove the MAF and spray it with some MAF cleaner, regardless of how dirty, or how little dirt it has on it. Just add it to part of the service routine.

[PATROL KING]

Mine is the same lately . ZD30 2003 series 3 manual 3 inch straight through exhaust. New injector pump 5k ago and new head gasket 2k ago.
Very sluggish especiallly when up hill at 2000rpm , shes just got no pull like before.Not losing boost at this but just no pull.
Nads installed to give max boost of 15 psi and I get 6 psi at 1500rpm 3/4 throttle and 10 psi at 2000rpm at 3/4 throttle,no vac leaks or ic leaks(are ic fitted).Had this all fitted prior to this and it ran like a train .
Maf voltages in spec red wire 2.16 volts because I have egr blocked .
So could it still be a farked MAF ?
Or injector nozzles might need replacing ? They`ve done 210000. weren`t replaced when I replaced the head at 175000..
Sorry for steeling the thread. What do you guys think?
Input very appreciated.

[Hodge]

I'm bringing this thread back up from the grave, because even though I do not own this Patrol any more, I now may have some clues why I had such erratic power behaviour.

Cut a long story short.... Last week, get a phone call. Surprisingly, its a car yard where i bought my 3L Patrol way back 2013. They're moving / shutting down, and they seem to have found a folder with a lot of original paperwork and books that belong to this car. Traced me down through their invoices and wanted to know if i still want them... Curiously I agreed.
They arrived today. Amongst some Police forms etc... (Car was ex SA police), there is a bunch of invoices from a few car yards/mechanics.
And wow.... It seems like, car's power behaved erratically very early on and, not much was NOT replaced on this car early in it's life. From injectors, to turbo, from ECU to IP....
It doesn't bother me one iota now. Water under a bridge long gone... But I wonder if this folder somehow got "lost" during the sale...

Here is some of the more interesting snippets from the invoices.

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=70677&stc=1http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=70678&stc=1http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=70679&stc=1

[Hodge]

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=70680&stc=1http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=70681&stc=1http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=70682&stc=1

[Bacho86]

Didn't a guy you knew from work or something buy the patrol from you? How's he going with it, had anymore issues?


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[Hodge]

Didn't a guy you knew from work or something buy the patrol from you? How's he going with it, had anymore issues?


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Yup I see it every day. And the car has been mechanically flawless . It's all dinged up as he actually uses it . Something I didn't do with it lol.

Sent from S5

[Bacho86]

Yup I see it every day. And the car has been mechanically flawless . It's all dinged up as he actually uses it . Something I didn't do with it lol.

Sent from S5

That's great to hear considering the ups and downs you went through with it! Maybe it's time to get the 4.2 out to make up for it? Time to plan another HC trip before the gates close


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[Hodge]

That's great to hear considering the ups and downs you went through with it! Maybe it's time to get the 4.2 out to make up for it? Time to plan another HC trip before the gates close


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Absolutely agree .
... About the high country trip. Lol
Yeah that Patrol has been put through its paces and it delivered every time. Been all over SA and the HC no issues.
Happy for him.

Sent from S5

[Bacho86]

Absolutely agree .
... About the high country trip. Lol
Yeah that Patrol has been put through its paces and it delivered every time. Been all over SA and the HC no issues.
Happy for him.

Sent from S5

How's March / April looking like for you? Time to start planning a trip I think!


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[Hodge]

How's March / April looking like for you? Time to start planning a trip I think!


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Possibility mate... Just not easter weekend as Im on call throughout that period... :(

[Bacho86]

Possibility mate... Just not easter weekend as Im on call throughout that period... :(

Yep I figured as much, wife would like me to stay home Easter this year for family, so that wouldn't work for me either.

Maybe thinking just a random weekend and take a Friday or Monday off, for a good 3 days in the bush


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