Front locker

[Tonks]

Is a front locker going to benefit in desert & beach driving i have the factory LSD in the rear,

Cheers Tonks.

[04OFF]

The short answer is no...... however, it depends where you go and what you do, generally front lockers will reduce your turning ability in most situations (including sand), a limited improvement may be noticeable in very soft sand when travelling "straight" ahead.

The exception to this is if you fit a auto lokka, if you have this type of lokka in the front, with a small change in your driving style, ive found it can actually be a benifit in most sand driving situations ive come across.

[Stropp]

i have an auto locker and yes it is a bit harder to steer but i havent had any dramas as yet not that i do a lot of sand driving.

[growler2058]

The short answer is no...... however, it depends where you go and what you do, generally front lockers will reduce your turning ability in most situations (including sand), a limited improvement may be noticeable in very soft sand when travelling "straight" ahead.

The exception to this is if you fit a auto lokka, if you have this type of lokka in the front, with a small change in your driving style, ive found it can actually be a benifit in most sand driving situations ive come across.

Correct in my opinion! Love my LoKKa has been a big difference in the sand dunes at loveday 4wd adventures, slight change in driving style and away ya go

[89gqpatrol4x4]

I have front and rear and for me no real difference in sand driving but that's just my experience.

[Bush Ranger]

I can`t see any benefit for a locker in beach sand, front or rear. In saying that, I`d still go for a rear locker, no matter how good people say the Patrols LSDs are.

[Stropp]

yeh that old chestnut, good lsd in rear and front locker is a better option than just a locker in the back imho.

[04OFF]

yeh that old chestnut, good lsd in rear and front locker is a better option than just a locker in the back imho.

X2, otherwise all the Ti owners with just a factory rear locker, would be getting "further" than those of us with front locker/rear LSD ? , i dont think so !

[growler2058]

X2, otherwise all the Ti owners with just a factory rear locker, would be getting "further" than those of us with front locker/rear LSD ? , i dont think so !
X3........

[Bush Ranger]

yeh that old chestnut, good lsd in rear and front locker is a better option than just a locker in the back imho.
Horses for courses. All depends on how you look at it. I`d rather push a weight with a rear locker and no front locker, than bust a CV with a front locker and while having a LSD whilst pulling a weight. If I had both diffs with lockers, Id only have the front one on if I know I really need it, driving straight and or minimal steering to limit the possibility of the CVs busting. But you lot knew that right? Having a busted CV and rear LSD isn`t going to get you far now is it? Just my thoughts and looking at it in a way that one option could cost you more money in repairs, than in another way of doing the job.
04OFF - The reason why the Ti has a rear locker is because it`s the next model up and why would you pay for an LSD, when a locker is a better option?

[davo94]

The short answer is no...... however, it depends where you go and what you do, generally front lockers will reduce your turning ability in most situations (including sand), a limited improvement may be noticeable in very soft sand when travelling "straight" ahead.

The exception to this is if you fit a auto lokka, if you have this type of lokka in the front, with a small change in your driving style, ive found it can actually be a benifit in most sand driving situations ive come across.


ONLY When locked.

.An unlocked air locker will have ZERO impact on the turning circle.

[04OFF]

Horses for courses. All depends on how you look at it. I`d rather push a weight with a rear locker and no front locker, than bust a CV with a front locker and while having a LSD whilst pulling a weight. If I had both diffs with lockers, Id only have the front one on if I know I really need it, driving straight and or minimal steering to limit the possibility of the CVs busting. But you lot knew that right? Having a busted CV and rear LSD isn`t going to get you far now is it? Just my thoughts and looking at it in a way that one option could cost you more money in repairs, than in another way of doing the job.
04OFF - The reason why the Ti has a rear locker is because it`s the next model up and why would you pay for an LSD, when a locker is a better option?


We are only talking about "one" locker (front OR rear), we are not talking about twin locker option, i think everyone will agree 2 lockers are the best set up.

I agree with what you say about a front and rear locker with regard to Cvs mate, and nobody here is suggesting for a moment a LSD is better than a locker off road.


The reference to a Ti is just a very common example of a car that has a rear Locker, and how many people would have seen other cars with a rear LSD "and" a front locker, go further than a car that has a rear locker "only".




The bottom line to what im saying is, if you can only have "one" locker, having a LSD on the other end/axel of the vehicle, is going to be better than a open centre, and as Patrols did not have a LSD "front" option, the best option is a LSD rear, locker front , NOT a locked rear, open centre front.

[04OFF]

ONLY When locked.

.An unlocked air locker will have ZERO impact on the turning circle.

OK, fair enough, i didn't actually say "when locked" !

But really mate, i think you are the "only" person that would have read that ,and NOT realised i was talking about when the locker "is" engaged !

[Drewboyaus]

Well this is not speaking from personal experience but is my opinion, one of my best mates who has been a Patrol nut for two decades has convinced me to go rear locker first for the very reasons Bushranger cites.
He swears that his rig with rear locker only activated will go more places than those with LSD rear and locked front (in fact he said he would go further with the rear locked and in 2wd). I trust him on this as he knows his chit. The other upside is in activating a rear locker when descending super steep hills acts as a boat anchor out back to help slow progress down just that bit extra.
I can honestly say I've shifted my opinion of front vs rear locker (only) over the last few months and will be putting one in the rear of mine before the front.


Tip tip tip......tap tap tap....

[Ben-e-boy]

Sorry. I dont believe for a second that he will go further in locked 2wd than a front locked 4wd.

A bit of left foot brake works wonders with the LSD still not a good as a positive locker but it does help.
I only have a front locker and have only done 1 CV and that was because I was in a position where I had to revearse out of a large ditch full lock, when a CV is at its weakest, with the enitre weight of the ute on the front wheels and snapped it and the axle like a twig lol

[davo94]

OK, fair enough, i didn't actually say "when locked" !

But really mate, i think you are the "only" person that would have read that ,and NOT realised i was talking about when the locker "is" engaged !

Just answering the original post and insureing that the original poster gets clean and clear info before spending hard earned cash.. we all know the feeling of parting with $$$ for something we arent happy with.

[Winnie]

Yep I'm with Benny, no way could a rear locked 2wd go further than an unlocked 4wd. And i am sure a front locked, rear LSD would go further than rear Locker only

[davo94]

Well this is not speaking from personal experience but is my opinion, one of my best mates who has been a Patrol nut for two decades has convinced me to go rear locker first for the very reasons Bushranger cites.
He swears that his rig with rear locker only activated will go more places than those with LSD rear and locked front (in fact he said he would go further with the rear locked and in 2wd). I trust him on this as he knows his chit. The other upside is in activating a rear locker when descending super steep hills acts as a boat anchor out back to help slow progress down just that bit extra.
I can honestly say I've shifted my opinion of front vs rear locker (only) over the last few months and will be putting one in the rear of mine before the front.


Tip tip tip......tap tap tap....

A rear locker under full braking will make the truck slide more so that if you were using a front locker and lsd rear. The weight on a decent is all over the front wheels hence the 75 front brake 25 rear brake proportion.

[Bloodyaussie]

Sorry. I dont believe for a second that he will go further in locked 2wd than a front locked 4wd.

A bit of left foot brake works wonders with the LSD still not a good as a positive locker but it does help.
I only have a front locker and have only done 1 CV and that was because I was in a position where I had to revearse out of a large ditch full lock, when a CV is at its weakest, with the enitre weight of the ute on the front wheels and snapped it and the axle like a twig lol
Good on you Benny!!!!!!!

[Drewboyaus]

Well this is not speaking from personal experience but is my opinion, one of my best mates who has been a Patrol nut for two decades has convinced me to go rear locker first for the very reasons Bushranger cites.
He swears that his rig with rear locker only activated will go more places than those with LSD rear and locked front (in fact he said he would go further with the rear locked and in 2wd). I trust him on this as he knows his chit. The other upside is in activating a rear locker when descending super steep hills acts as a boat anchor out back to help slow progress down just that bit extra.
I can honestly say I've shifted my opinion of front vs rear locker (only) over the last few months and will be putting one in the rear of mine before the front.


Tip tip tip......tap tap tap....

Just sayin'


Tip tip tip......tap tap tap....

[Drewboyaus]

So we need to devise an experiment!


Tip tip tip......tap tap tap....

[Winnie]

So we need to devise an experiment!


Tip tip tip......tap tap tap....

Ill happily donate my car to have a front locker fitted.


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[davo94]

so we need to devise an experiment!


Tip tip tip......tap tap tap....

-----like------

[04OFF]

Just answering the original post and insureing that the original poster gets clean and clear info before spending hard earned cash.. we all know the feeling of parting with $$$ for something we arent happy with.

"Is a front locker going to benefit in desert & beach driving i have the factory LSD in the rear"

Yeh, but I think its pretty clear the OP was talking about a benifit when the locker is "engaged", as surley the OP would not expect any benifit when the locker is NOT engaged......?


But......Perhaps you are right davo, and im assuming too much, hopefully the OP can ask more if they don't quite understand how a locker works ?





So we need to devise an experiment!



Yes , agree, im happy to be proved wrong, ill even bring the video camera.......

.....calling all Ti owners !:biggrin:

[Drewboyaus]

Perhaps it's an experiment that could be conducted at our next Vic meet up in October.....


Tip tip tip......tap tap tap....

[Ben-e-boy]

"Is a front locker going to benefit in desert & beach driving i have the factory LSD in the rear"

Yeh, but I think its pretty clear the OP was talking about a benifit when the locker is "engaged", as surley the OP would not expect any benifit when the locker is NOT engaged......?


But......Perhaps you are right davo, and im assuming too much, hopefully the OP can ask more if they don't quite understand how a locker works ?







Yes , agree, im happy to be proved wrong, ill even bring the video camera.......

.....calling all Ti owners !:biggrin:

I'm in. I'll be the front locked 4wd on a track of my choice................Follow me :D

[04OFF]

I'm in. I'll be the front locked 4wd on a track of my choice................Follow me :D

Id be impressed to see another "front locked" 4wd take on that challenge, let alone something with a open centre :biggrin:

[BigRAWesty]

I guess the condition of the lsd plays a part..
I would go lokka front lsd rear as my lsd if tight.. Wheels chirp around corners when doing town driving...

If you have a loose lsd I can see why one would think a lokka is so much better than lsd..
Sure Its better in hardcore stuff, but for sand I doubt you'd notice it over a good lsd..

[Drewboyaus]

I'm in. I'll be the front locked 4wd on a track of my choice................Follow me :D

Daz has a vehicle of similar (or greater) capability with a rear locker too.......I think he might be the only one of us with a rear locker.
Just need to pick an appropriate hill.....




Tip tip tip......tap tap tap....

[davo94]

Id have a front china locker over a rear auto locker any day of the week. My factory lsd and for what its worth every single gq iv ever driven has had a great lsd. Im yet to find one with a shot lsd.. the factory vacume lockers in the ti are weak as carrats.. imho sand or rocks front locker will take you ferther than a open centre front diff and any sort of rear locker.

[cgm]

I'm in. I'll be the front locked 4wd on a track of my choice................Follow me :D

That's the confidence I like - "Follow me". Ha Ha

Since the OP was about desert and beach (I assume sand) driving - I mostly only do sand driving here, playing in the dunes. I put a Lokka in the front of my Trooper (Jackaroo) and it made a noticeable difference. We were out last weekend and my mate who now has the Trooper, I reckon was doing it easier than I was in the GU (4.8). We were looping doing a long hill climb (400 metres gradual slope to tight peak) that was undulating and needed to come at it with speed. It had a soft spot about 50 metres from the top and luckily hardened up near the end (or we wouldn't have made it). Lots of people underrate the Trooper and keep getting surprised when it keeps up. I think the Lokka makes a useful difference to this equation (the lower weight of the Trooper is definitely another real advantage in this situation). Watching it come up the hill the other day when it hits the soft stuff you can see it throwing sand on both sides. Before I put the Lokka in I wasn't expecting much difference in the sand, but thought I'd give it a go anyway. Was a good decision.

Because of the good experience with the Lokka on the Trooper I've bought a Spartan for the front of the GU now which I'll get in soon and then he'll have no hope. :D

So, original question was: "Is a front locker going to benefit in desert & beach driving i have the factory LSD in the rear," - I reckon Yes!

I have no experience to comment on the front vs rear discussion.

[Drewboyaus]

^^^^ from the sand expert!


Tip tip tip......tap tap tap....

[Alitis007]

I'm in. I'll be the front locked 4wd on a track of my choice................Follow me :D

Rear factory locker here! Where we going Bene?? :D

[Winnie]

Benny's going to take you for a short drive to a hill called "Big Red"


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[Tonks]

Yes definitely was talking about when engaged, thanks for all the feedback anyway,
Gee I've opened up a can of worms in this thread,
Cheers Guys



"Is a front locker going to benefit in desert & beach driving i have the factory LSD in the rear"

Yeh, but I think its pretty clear the OP was talking about a benifit when the locker is "engaged", as surley the OP would not expect any benifit when the locker is NOT engaged......?


But......Perhaps you are right davo, and im assuming too much, hopefully the OP can ask more if they don't quite understand how a locker works ?







Yes , agree, im happy to be proved wrong, ill even bring the video camera.......

.....calling all Ti owners !:biggrin:[/QUOTE]

[Drewboyaus]

We love a can of worms!


Tip tip tip......tap tap tap....

[Ben-e-boy]

Rear factory locker here! Where we going Bene?? :D


Benny's going to take you for a short drive to a hill called "Big Red"


Sent from my iPad using Motorculture mobile app
haha it definatly wont be big red. I want a challenge. I was thinking around area 51 at ormeau

[Alitis007]

haha it definatly wont be big red. I want a challenge. I was thinking around area 51 at ormeau

Done! See you in 15, so start making your way there and i'll be there shortly .......

[BigRAWesty]

Done! See you in 15, so start making your way there and i'll be there shortly .......

I hope someone has a bloody camera...

[Alitis007]

haha it definatly wont be big red. I want a challenge. I was thinking around area 51 at ormeau

Done! See you in 15, so start making your way there and i'll be there shortly .......

[BigRAWesty]

So.. What happened.. I see no vid.. Did you chicken out gorge???

[Alitis007]

So.. What happened.. I see no vid.. Did you chicken out gorge???

Lol how did i chicken mate?? We're virtually 1800km away and its physically impossible for me to get there in 15 mins and anyway i don't even know where area 51 in ormeo is LMAO!

[BigRAWesty]

Lol how did i chicken mate?? We're virtually 1800km away and its physically impossible for me to get there in 15 mins and anyway i don't even know where area 51 in ormeo is LMAO!

Haha.. Just dealing shoit mate.. Did you have a good day??

[Alitis007]

Haha.. Just dealing shoit mate.. Did you have a good day??

My work ute blew a radiator on the way home from my mrs house in the morning and I waited for over 2 hours for a towy to come, worked till 3 with no breaks and my team lost. So yeah had an awesome day!

[BigRAWesty]

I think some1 needs johno....

[Ben-e-boy]

Lol how did i chicken mate?? We're virtually 1800km away and its physically impossible for me to get there in 15 mins and anyway i don't even know where area 51 in ormeo is LMAO!

its nearly 1100km from where I am now lmao hefty fine if you get caught in there too. but worth it lol

[Chris79]

From my experience of lockers in soft sand in the beachport Robe area, all the lockers did was make it harder to dig out once you got bogged lol.

[cgm]

From my experience of lockers in soft sand in the beachport Robe area, all the lockers did was make it harder to dig out once you got bogged lol.

Yeah, I'd also agree with that. Once you start "digging in" with the sand you are pretty much done for. Then you'll be as you've said "digging out". Lockers can probably help you dig in that much quicker.

One of my mates thats done lots and lots of sand driving seems to have a knack for stopping before completely digging in. He'll often back out when you wouldn't expect or often only need a small push.

I've got no discipline and keep thinking maybe I can still do it. Then in no time I'm dug in deep and gonna need more serious help. :)

Still think in general the lockers are more advantage than not.

[Diesel-Mate]

I've got an auto lokka in the front with standard LSD in the rear. The lokka made a huge difference reducing the speed I could tackle obstacles. In sand I've noticed that there was an improvement in forward progress especially when hitting mogals and one of the front wheels leave the ground. I don't just stop like I did before with an open diff, it keeps moving.

In regards to turning. I have found it only very slightly heavier steering but its only noticeable with 35s on. In mud it wants to go straight all the time so you have to adjust your driving style and back off a bit when wanting to turn but you will pick it up quickly. In sand there's not really a noticeable change to steering except when you go full lock and give it a little bit off right foot. It will almost turn turn a complete circle on the spot due to the front wheels being locked together and this is in a lwb.

[Alitis007]

its nearly 1100km from where I am now lmao hefty fine if you get caught in there too. but worth it lol

Interesting..... Which direction from you mate west or south?

[Winnie]

Haha sounds like George is keen for a drive!

[Ben-e-boy]

Interesting..... Which direction from you mate west or south?

its south of me. I am at work at the moment its on the northern side of the gold coast.

[04OFF]

In all honesty Benny, i really think we need two vehicles with pretty much the same dimensions, suspension, weight and tyres to give us a fair result ?


And as the others mentioned before with regard to driving on sand, if your spinning wheels and digging holes, your doing it wrong ,regardless of your locked/unlocked diffs, reminds me of those that say mud tyres are no good on sand because they dig in too much, well same goes, dont spin the wheels and mud tyres can still work great on sand.

[Ben-e-boy]

In all honesty Benny, i really think we need two vehicles with pretty much the same dimensions, suspension, weight and tyres to give us a fair result .

Yes, but really....locked rear wheel drive v front locked 4wd. There is no comparison

[04OFF]

Yes, but really....locked rear wheel drive v front locked 4wd. There is no comparison

I agree , i just feel if its to be proved or disproved, the vehicles have to be very equal in all other aspects (or close enough)

e.g, i doubt a standard GU wagon, even with "twin" lockers, would go some places ive seen your ute go Benny ?

[nissannewby]

I agree , i just feel if its to be proved or disproved, the vehicles have to be very equal in all other aspects (or close enough)

e.g, i doubt a standard GU wagon, even with "twin" lockers, would go some places ive seen your ute go Benny ?

I have been many places without lockers just the rear LSD a little hard work at times and has led to breakages but doable. Lockers do make life easier in some situations actually a lot but I do agree with the sand comments which kinda of carry over to other ground conditions, technique is where it's at.

[gaddy]

As the original post was about sand , and just my 2 cents , I've never seen the need for a locker , as never lifted a wheel yet , before buying the patrol I had a 2.7 lux towing a jayco Swan , the lux was on skinny steel rims and the camper is on 14 inch x 175 , 18 psi in all tires never had a problem . And that includes indian head on a hot summers day , and with the patrol definitely no hassle or worry in the sand . Drive to conditions momentum is the key not speed
Just my 2 cents worth I've seen rigs with all the bells and whistles down to the belly only to see a soft roader drive right past

Steve

[04OFF]

As the original post was about sand , and just my 2 cents , I've never seen the need for a locker , as never lifted a wheel yet , before buying the patrol I had a 2.7 lux towing a jayco Swan , the lux was on skinny steel rims and the camper is on 14 inch x 175 , 18 psi in all tires never had a problem . And that includes indian head on a hot summers day , and with the patrol definitely no hassle or worry in the sand . Drive to conditions momentum is the key not speed
Just my 2 cents worth I've seen rigs with all the bells and whistles down to the belly only to see a soft roader drive right past

Steve

I agree Steve, ive personally driven thousands of Ks, spread out on all my local sand islands (Fraser/Moreton/straddie etc) , all without any sort of diff lock, you definitely don't "need" a locker for sand driving, and i would not advise someone to rush out and buy one if sand driving is all they do.

In fact, i was worried about getting a Lokka , due to the amount of sand driving i do, and the negative reports id read and heard about using a front locker in the sand, but to my surprize, i found the auto Lokka could work in your favour in sand.



As you suggest, driver skill is worth more than anything, all the Rangers, Police, Ambulance all seem to get around the beach on very skinny tyres, and ive only ever seen a Ambo get bogged (racing to a casualty) even then, not under any urgency, i was able to just reverse it out, and drove through what they got stuck in on my first go.


Ive also seen a guy in a AWD Territory on bribie island, he made the second lagoon crossing look easier than anyone else the whole day ! :clapping: