Clutch shudder

[Jimbo65]

Hi all...not long joined this awesome forum & enjoying the stories, banter etc. Have recently moved over from the dark side....Hilux to a 2002 GU TD42 which I'm hoping to get an intercooled turbo fitted by Roo systems...any comments on past experiences with them or any other suppliers I shld look at. Am experiencing a horrible clutch shudder when slowly taking off in 1st or 2nd especially when stuck in the infamous Gateway traffic in Brisbane..not sure why but am thinking it may need the flywheel being machined?? Any helpful comments?
Jimbo

[93patrol]

Yeah mate more than likely needs machining or you have uneven wear on the clutch plate itself. It's about $1000 to $1500 to replace the clutch depending on which brand and who does it. You can do it yourself but the gearbox is about 500 kg and can be unwieldy or take the engine out

[threedogs]

X 2 maybe the previous driver rode the clutch a bit

[Jimbo65]

Cheers guys..confirmed a horrible suspicion. ..yipee. oh well inter cooler will have to wait a bit longer.

[93patrol]

Just put up the shudder until u need a new clutch it couldn't do you any harm maybe

[Cuppa]

Sure it's not the 'normal' TD42 driveline harmonic thing at low revs (under load & under 1000rpm)? Does it go away with a few more revs?

[Jimbo65]

Yeah think that's what I'll do. Any thoughts on Roo Systems re getting after market inter cooled turbo?

[Jimbo65]

Yeah it does go away once the revs are up. Strange thing tho is if I operate the clutch out with a few extra revs it doesn't happen. What's up with the harmonic balance issue & if I leave it will I do any more damage?

[93patrol]

No mate it will be fine I reckon

[Jimbo65]

Cheers, thanks for the comments & advice.

[Cuppa]

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?21840-GU1-Wagon-TD42t-Rattles/page2

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/archive/index.php/t-18489.html

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/archive/index.php/t-3322.html

[BigRAWesty]

Hi mate. Yea it's a common td42 thing when labouring engine too low. If you change gears say 1000rpm and Its not happening I'd be pretty confident Its the harmonics through the drive line.
It's different and many mates have looked at me when I've changed gears at 500 rpm like WTF, but half a million k's and still going on original clutch and drive line..

So yea try finding its rpm range, every engine is different. Mine does it up to around 900 rpm..

But yea, feel to get a second opinion. It may well be shudder..

[Jimbo65]

Cheers & thanks for helping out. You're right about the rpm's as I have noticed that with a bit more right foot I can control the shudder a bit more. Going up to Gordon Country, Goomburra Qld tomorrow so will be interesting to see how easy it'll be to contril shudder on some of their tracks. Will let you know.

[BigRAWesty]

Is it shudder or more if a rumble??
I wouldn't call mine a shudder, but you can feel the vibrations..

[Jimbo65]

Definately a shudder. Mechanic told me the TD42 has a different flywheel set up & to get rid of the shudder we would have to change the type of flywheel & new clutch kit....$2400 is a figure he gave me??? Am thinking of taking it to a 4WD specialist like Roo Systems or the like for an expert opinion. Now it has a rumble & slight vibration from front drive line?? Have checked & re packed both fr wheel bearings so they're not the issue. Pretty frustrating as you could imagine. Only had it 2 months & it's sucking me dry.#*!#*

[BigRAWesty]

I'd take it to a proper 4x4 joint if you could.
Is there a way to get a passenger to video the car while in motion and show the Speedo..

[Jimbo65]

Think it's the tyres, GEOTRAC PATAGONIA's, never heard of them nor has Bob Janes. Have ordered some Yokohamas as I got a good run out of a set I had on my old Lux. As luck would have it I stuffed one of the rears so its a good time to change. Whats your thoughts on Yokohamas, have been told to try the BF Goodriches AT's instead as its still my daily drive...am now 2nd guessing myself.

[93patrol]

yoki geolanders is a good SAND tyre cant fault them but i don't know about the muddies. my BFG A/T have done 100k and are starting to get close to replcement and is a good all round tire for me as i do lots of sand work and some small amount of mud work, most people i go 4by with run mickey t 4rib ATZ and swear by them so its your choice BFG cost a bit eg 33x12.5x15 cost approx 350-370 a tire

[BigRAWesty]

Geeze I'd be very surprised if it's the tyres.. Unless your running sand paddles..

If you need new tread go for it but I'd say your issue will remain..
Like I said if you can take it to a propper 4x4 workshop.

[Jimbo65]

Cheers all for the advice, process of elimination points to the rubber but will let you know how I get on, am crossing fingers as it was a pretty expensive weekend what with the stuffed tyre, broken rear view mirror & little mutt chewed through zip on brand new canopy. Coupla lessons learnt tho, drop tyre pressures more, get high lift jack c/w base plate & leave mutt at home. But it was bloody good fun. Next mission is Vic high country at xmas.

[Jimbo65]

Well new feet on the beast, ended up with the yoki geos but u're right Karen noise is still there so back 2 the drawing board. Booked in next Fri to check it out, different mech who actually owns a troll as well. My tboughts are now turning to drive shaft out of balance?? Funny thing is the noise & vibration is worse between 70-80km & dies down if slower or even beta when sitting over 80km?? Them the joys of owning a 4WD I suppose.

[the ferret]

Check your engine mount rubbers Jimbo, this could be all it is.
Cheers, the ferret.

[BigRAWesty]

Ok yea, if you are getting shudder that high in the speed range it rules out the engine rumble and I'd say clutch as again once clutch is engaged it should stop.
So yes, I'm with you And ferret.
Does the gear lever move exesivly side to side when accelerating On and Off?

[Jimbo65]

Think I may have confused the 2 issues I have which if I have I apologise. Had the beast 02 GU TD42 non turbo for a little over 2 months & got it with:-
Issue 1 - clutch shudder on take off, can control using the right amount of revs going forward but struggle to control in reverse so yeah checking engine mounts makes sense, thanks Ferret & Karen. If not then will replace clutch & machine flywheel.
Issue 2 - last 10 days I'm experiencing noise (harmonic type) & vibration from what feels like LH front drive train, checked & re packed fr whl brgs, new rubber on wheels but sound & vibration still there especially between 70-80kms only?? No excessive movement in steering wheel or gear lever. All bushes look alright so next option is to get it on a hoist with someone in cab going through the motions & trying to determine from underneath but will leave that to the experts.
Another question I have is would changing the exhaust system to a 3" give me that much more power & fuel economy without fitting a turbo (only cause I can't afford it just yet) or should I wait until $'s are available to do both at same time?

[BigRAWesty]

Think I may have confused the 2 issues I have which if I have I apologise. Had the beast 02 GU TD42 non turbo for a little over 2 months & got it with:-
Issue 1 - clutch shudder on take off, can control using the right amount of revs going forward but struggle to control in reverse so yeah checking engine mounts makes sense, thanks Ferret & Karen. If not then will replace clutch & machine flywheel.
Issue 2 - last 10 days I'm experiencing noise (harmonic type) & vibration from what feels like LH front drive train, checked & re packed fr whl brgs, new rubber on wheels but sound & vibration still there especially between 70-80kms only?? No excessive movement in steering wheel or gear lever. All bushes look alright so next option is to get it on a hoist with someone in cab going through the motions & trying to determine from underneath but will leave that to the experts.
Another question I have is would changing the exhaust system to a 3" give me that much more power & fuel economy without fitting a turbo (only cause I can't afford it just yet) or should I wait until $'s are available to do both at same time?

Ok, issue one on still sold its the 4.2 rumble.. If it was clutch shudder it would happen weather you change at 500rpm or 1500rpm..
Is it still happening above 1000rpm??

Issue 2. Are you getting any shakes threw the steering wheel??

[mudnut]

G'day, Jimbo65. I just had BFG rugged terrain tyres fitted. At 90-100kph there was a terrible shudder throughout the car. I traced it to the front left. I took the patrol back to the tyre shop and they removed the tyre from the rim and spun it almost 180 degrees and refitted and balanced it at no cost. It is smooth as now.

[Jimbo65]

Re shudder - only on take off so above 1000rpm all is good.
Re noise & vibration - no movement on strg wheel but can feel the vibration through it. Definately rotational due to sound & feel. It's got me stuffed. As I said earlier will get it up on the hoist, go through the gears & see if the issue can be sorted that way. Had the chance tonight of opening her up to 110kms & its weird cause below 70 it's not so bad but still there, 70-80kms its bad, 100-105km not too bad but still there, 105 upwards its back with a vegance?
New rubber hasn't made a difference so its got to be in drive train somewhere. ..trick is where, will see if d/shaft is balanced but would think I'd feel & hear it from rear if that's the case??
Thanks for your thoughts and help so far. Think I'll wait to see what getting it up on the hoist shows up rather than chasing my tail & boring the sh*t out of everyone.

[BigRAWesty]

If it was drive line I'd guess it would be consistent..
To be honest issue 2 sounds Luke early stages of the death wobbles.. If so it's a matter of either chase your tail or do it all in one hit. How many k's on the car?

[BigRAWesty]

Just going back threw the posts, your mechanic needs to do some research On Nissan clutches.. The different clutch he is talking about is the dual mass flywheel which is only found on the 3ltr patrols, maybe the 2.8 And 4.8 engines, not 100% On them 2.
But the 4.2 and 4.5 engines already run solid flywheels. So no need to change unless totally stuffed which is normally uncommon..

[the ferret]

I'd be checking the passenger side engine mount before pulling the box out......
Cheers, the ferret.

[Jimbo65]

Good to know re clutches, thanks. 262000 on the clock which I wouldn't of thought is excessive but who knows what previous owners put it thru. Will definitely check engine mts too. Cheers.

[rafa]

If it was drive line I'd guess it would be consistent..
To be honest issue 2 sounds Luke early stages of the death wobbles.. If so it's a matter of either chase your tail or do it all in one hit. How many k's on the car?

Westy, what are the death wobbles?

[BigRAWesty]

Westy, what are the death wobbles?

A very known short fall of what is a superior product... :rolleyes:
With so many joints in the patrols suspension as things wear you start to get feed back in the form of wobbles in the steering wheel.
Usually comes and goes threw the speed range, usually 70-90 k/h is normal.
Blokes have replaced whole setups trying to find the source. Then others get lucky changing a few bits.
I had serious wobbles as everything was half a million old, so I've changed everything in one hit..