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View Full Version : 3l common rail winds for ages fires then runs fine?



mattdoyle0493
8th August 2013, 12:41 AM
Hi all, having a minor difficulty which had left me scratching my head a little;
Ok so I 2007 3l common rail is winding perfectly fine, and runs perfectly fine (even overtook a car up a hill starting at 60 and still reached my 100 by the top, power is still there?) but over the last few days the amount of time it is winding before it fires is getting longer and longer, and it doesn't hesitate when it does fire it's just bang, it's off, although it does throw the smallest puff of white very diesel smelling smoke when it fires? I'm going to put a new fuel filter on it tomorrow, start simple and because that's the best I can think of, but just wondering in case that's not the fault if anyone might have any ideas?

Ideas so far;

Glow plugs, light comes on for the usual time, goes out she winds and winds, glowed her a couple of times before starting, nothing, then after running it at op. temp shut it off, went away for 10 came back, still winding and winding so I say rules out pre-start temp. Also it is just getting longer each time I start, so cold mornings verse warmer afternoons aka different engine temps don't affect it

Lack of compression
Not having the required compression for initial start up, although this was an out there idea I don't believe it's that due too it runs smooth once it fires, and also as with the glow plug idea once the engine is hot such a small lack of compression wouldn't be an issue

Injector issues
If the injectors aren't misting properly it won't fire properly, however with the engine running smoothly and with plenty of power and most importantly no smoke this is unlikely as well

Pump or rail issues
If the pump is not supplying the correct pressure or the rail is losing pressure, start up will be difficult, but it would also not run smoothly and would probably blow smoke

Pump/rail/injectors leaking (internally?)
One of the more likely more technical causes, that the pump rail or injectors could be losing enough pressure through say a faulty pressure limiting valve on the rail or a faulty pressure relief valve in the pump or an internal seal in an injector? Losing enough pressure to make start up hard but not enough to affect performance?

Lift/low pressure supply pump
Possibility that the supply pump has a stuck open check valve not allowing the system to keep supply pressure and is having to work longer to get the supply pressure back up to spec, and it's coming good once there is some suction in the system making the check valve effectively redundant, or even just a supply pump issue where it struggles to get the fuel up to the high pressure pump to start with but again once everything's running with a good bit of suction in the system it comes good?

Any help or ideas would be greatly appreciated!


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mattdoyle0493
8th August 2013, 12:44 AM
Apologies for the essay too! Would free beer to any and all who help me solve this make it any better? Haha!


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mattdoyle0493
8th August 2013, 12:45 AM
Also it is not throwing any check engine lights or anything


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my third 256
8th August 2013, 04:47 AM
burnt out glo plug my guess check with multi meter

mattdoyle0493
9th August 2013, 07:54 AM
Nope she ain't glow plugs, ****** won't start full stop now no smoke or anything, went to change the fuel filter and turns out I was given the wrong one!
Now I'm meant to be at work by 8, it's 20 past 7, I'm 50k's out of town including 20ks of off highway back road, with noone to give me a lift and no spare vehicle. Not only that I have to work out how I can get it going or get it towed when my toolbox is at work and a tow trucks going to cost me a fortune! I think after some reading on another forum it could be injectors...!

So people. Who's up for early morning beers?


"Teamwork is essential; it gives the enemy someone else to shoot at"

happygu
9th August 2013, 08:27 AM
Hopefully, you're at work now...... first up put the right filter in, and prime it up...... depending on how long it has been in - it may be too restrictive

BillsGU
9th August 2013, 11:55 AM
How did you know it was not the glow plugs? Did you measure the resistance? Just because the glow light comes on doesn't mean the glow plugs are working. Same thing happened to mine a while back and then the battery was so low from trying to start it all the time it finally would not start at all. New glow plugs and a new battery fixed the problem.

TPC
9th August 2013, 12:33 PM
How did you know it was not the glow plugs? Did you measure the resistance? Just because the glow light comes on doesn't mean the glow plugs are working. Same thing happened to mine a while back and then the battery was so low from trying to start it all the time it finally would not start at all. New glow plugs and a new battery fixed the problem.

In his OP he said it would be slow to start when engine is at operating temp, would think glow plugs should not be required then.

mattdoyle0493
9th August 2013, 02:16 PM
Got cranky and pulled off the manifold side inter cooler hose and sprayed in a little ether start, she fired without hesitation, not a miss, fart, or anything and runs smooth as, and ideas? Still haven't found a fuel filter the distance to town issue is a little too great...


"Teamwork is essential; it gives the enemy someone else to shoot at"

mattdoyle0493
17th August 2013, 03:47 PM
Got the 'troll back from the dealer yesterday, faulty rail pressure limiting valve, all sorted now so all good!

happygu
17th August 2013, 04:02 PM
Good stuff Matt,

I wonder if yours is just an odd one out, as I just returned from a double Simpson crossing, and I asked the boys at Patrolapart what spares they would take on a similar trip in a CRD, and a pressure limiting valve didn't make the small list of bits.....

Mic

mattdoyle0493
17th August 2013, 04:24 PM
Good stuff Matt,

I wonder if yours is just an odd one out, as I just returned from a double Simpson crossing, and I asked the boys at Patrolapart what spares they would take on a similar trip in a CRD, and a pressure limiting valve didn't make the small list of bits.....

Mic

In my experience with common rail MAN's, Detroits, and Mercs PLV issues aren't common, due to I believe the simplicity of them when compared to the rest of the common rail system, spring failures (aka causing an internal leak) are the most common failure when they do occur though

threedogs
17th August 2013, 04:52 PM
Thank god for that I thought you were stuck on the side of the road with no beer, lol
Sounds like a few here could relate to those symtoms

mattdoyle0493
17th August 2013, 05:04 PM
Thank god for that I thought you were stuck on the side of the road with no beer, lol
Sounds like a few here could relate to those symtoms

That's what Engels are for mate, never get stuck anywhere with no beer!