tips for snow trips

[RubberDuckieGQ]

How does everyone keep warm on snow trips? We were up near Mt Stirling the other weekend, camped next to a dam one night, and woke up to find it frozen over.

I had a Roman -5 degrees sleeping bag, with a liner inside that's meant to add 8 degrees.. wore an icebreaker thermal top (the heaviest one) and was still cold!!
also slept on a 2" sleeping mat with a blanket wrapped around it.

I used a hot water bottle the next night which helped a bit.

What does everyone else do? are people cold like me or does everyone manage to stay actually warm?

tips appreciated as i love snow trips :)

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[AB]

Hey mate, it sounds like you are pretty sorted with the bedding and you can only do so much in those conditions.

On those types of trips I used to wear top and bottom thermos and wore a good hooded jumper to bed to cover the head too.

And of course plenty of whiskey so you can't feel anything...lol

Obviously the trick is to keep yourself off the ground as the coldness can soak up to your bones and be in for a freezing sleep!!!!

[NissanGQ4.2]

Bottle of bourbon and pass out in a camping chair in front of the fire, works for me :):)

[Drewboyaus]

Were you swagging or tent? That will make a difference.
I use a Wilderness Equipment 4 season tent for the snow/extreme cold and it's toasty. A good 4 season tent is designed to keep the heat in while also allowing the moisture out.
Insulating your mattress from the ground is a must too. I use a couple of rubber backed picnic blankets underneath to help with that.
I'll also say from experience not all -5 bags are equal. They are often tested differently and some actually have -5 on them when that is in fact their extreme rating not their comfort rating.


Tip tip tip......tap tap tap....

[RubberDuckieGQ]

hmm maybe a swag is the way to go. Or a better tent. I was using a pretty standard OzTrail 3 man tent, protects against rain and that's about it! I thought my sleeping bag would do the rest .. clearly not lol

Had the drinks covered but probably needed more .. couldn't hurt anyway! :D

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[krbrooking]

I am planning putting the swag on a stretcher with two of those yoga matts underneath, backed up by some thermo's and a whole lot of clothing.

Or you can just jump in with Jonathan, he loves some man cuddles.


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[Winnie]

M plan is swag on stretcher, wear thermos and a beanie, I got my new -10 bag last night which seems to be really warm. Bt I will use my other bag as a blanket and also bring a Donna.


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[liftlid]

I was wondering if a camp stretcher would allow cold air to circulate beneath you as well as on top causing heat loss. you would need to have just as many blankets etc. below as above.
Would sleeping on the ground allow your body warmth to heat soak the mattress keeping you warm. I was thinking along the same theory as a wetsuit that traps a layer of cold water which your body warms keeping you warm. Does anybody know what the explorers in Antarctica etc. sleep on?

[liftlid]

hmm maybe a swag is the way to go. Or a better tent. I was using a pretty standard OzTrail 3 man tent, protects against rain and that's about it! I thought my sleeping bag would do the rest .. clearly not lol

Had the drinks covered but probably needed more .. couldn't hurt anyway! :D

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I think big tents don't keep you as warm as little ones as there is a lot more air volume to keep warm.

[rkinsey]

I put up a tarp over the top of our tents and site. Its 24 foot x 24 foot in size so covers the whole site. You dont need one this big but it does keep the dew and night air of of your tent. Keeps the tent clean if you are staying for a while and deffinately keeps you a bit warmer.

If you only have a 3 or 4 man tent then a smaller tarp say 2 x 3 m in size with 6 poles will deffinately help. Will also give you a "verandah".

Just a thought.

Cheers,

Rob

[oncedisturbed]

M plan is swag on stretcher, wear thermos and a beanie, I got my new -10 bag last night which seems to be really warm. Bt I will use my other bag as a blanket and also bring a Donna.


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Don't use a blanket over any sleeping bag as it compresses the fibres to much - as per OEM specs. Always use extra clothing or internal liners etc.

Thermals, beanies, polar fleece liners etc are the way to go. Other's have mentioned a stretcher with camp mats / therma-rests on them which is a good idea or if you are using a mat on the ground, try using a space blanket underneath and then a normal blanket on top of that, your matteress ideally should be 75mm or more "if possible" as this will also help with defeating the cold.

Air mats are a no-no as the air cools too much inside them. Hot water bottles help as well.

with sleeping bags as other's mentioned, the comfort rating is the ideal level with the extreme rating also listed. If you are going away camping etc in the colder areas, any bag needs to be a minimum of -5c less of the comfort rating.

For example confort rating listed as -5c you would look for a bag that is -10c minimum.

Manufacturer's like Oztrail, Kookaburra etc are usually very good with queries and the Oztrail's latest canvas swag bag is rated at -10c and comfort rating of -5c as an example but a price tag of roughly $250

[liftlid]

So would using a stretcher would be the same as an air mattress?

[oncedisturbed]

not in the same way, stretchers as they are off the ground don't absorb the cold direct from the ground which is where most of the issues come from. Even though they are off the ground, they prevent the cold seeping through from the ground itself and combined with a swag or 4x4 mat on top, you will find a far better sleep

[liftlid]

What about cold air blowing under stretcher

[firm351]

I've spent loads of nights camping in sub zero temps. I have an old Darche dome swag with a PVC floor it has a 2 inch foam mattress in it. I always rolled it out on top of of one of those camping/yoga type mats and slept in -5 sleeping bag and sleep light clothing and a beanie. Sounds weird but the more clothing you wear the harder it is to keep warm. A good sleeping bag will keep your body heat in and light clothing will allow the body heat to circulate. I've woken up in the morning plenty of times with the swag covered in snow or ice and never been cold while sleeping. Could also be the rum that I fill up on that helps.

[liftlid]

I always thought a breeze on a wet swag had a cooling effect so it must be the rum, which rum is it ?????

[threedogs]

@ liftlid never use an air mattress it'll suck the cold from the ground into the lilo.
I would use a stretcher and layer your clothing, wear a beanie, Look for woollen blankets
Always use a ground sheet as well, oh and avoid yellow snow at all costs nasty stuff
You need to insulate as best you can, even gloves as heat will escape from extremities

[liftlid]

No I don't use a lilow, thanks

[Winnie]

I will be folding out the awning and removing all the snow from under it, then swag on top of stretcher and will be wearing thermals and a beanie to bed at minimum. I've got a new - 10 sleeping bag maybe I should get a liner for it.

Trying to use Motorculture

[threedogs]

Sorry about that must be Meds kicking in ,
I'd be taking a hot water bottle, make sure you remove all air
maybe even 2, but like the bourbon theory, hate being cold big time
As Winnie says sleep under an awning or Tarp as cold night air decends.
heaps of fire wood

[liftlid]

I will be folding out the awning and removing all the snow from under it, then swag on top of stretcher and will be wearing thermals and a beanie to bed at minimum. I've got a new - 10 sleeping bag maybe I should get a liner for it.

Trying to use Motorculture

If the snow is deep you could end up in a bath, also the cold air would find the lowest point

[firm351]

I always thought a breeze on a wet swag had a cooling effect so it must be the rum, which rum is it ?????

Has to be bundy mate. That's why it has a polar bear on the bottle because it wards off the wickedest of winter chills. UP for cold OP for really cold. Works every time.

[Winnie]

I'll be trying that one out FOR SURE!

Got sick of Motorculture so gone back to Tappa

[liftlid]

I just happen to be parked out front of the bottle- o right now!!!!

[liftlid]

@ liftlid never use an air mattress it'll suck the cold from the ground into the lilo.
I would use a stretcher and layer your clothing, wear a beanie, Look for woollen blankets
Always use a ground sheet as well, oh and avoid yellow snow at all costs nasty stuff
You need to insulate as best you can, even gloves as heat will escape from extremities

Below is what I've used before, I'm interested in what others do, always looking for improvements.
Sleeping- I put my swag in a cheap tent to give an extra air barrier, under my swag I have one of those foam sleeping mats with the foil on them and a aldi thermorest. I also have a thermorest in my swag. sleep in thermals and polatec's I was hot in minus 13 deg. you could also throw an extra sleeping bag over your swag this way.
also take some waterproof tarps for under swag

[Winnie]

Don't use a blanket over any sleeping bag as it compresses the fibres to much - as per OEM specs. Always use extra clothing or internal liners etc.

Surely the blanket which is not heavy would do a lot less damage than my body which is lying on top of the bah, compressing it?

Trying to use Motorculture

[liftlid]

Here's a question how cold is the snow on the ground?

[AB]

Here's a question how cold is the snow on the ground?

Cold enough for shrinkage?


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[Drewboyaus]

Here's a question how cold is the snow on the ground?

Don't know the exact answer but near the surface if the snow it will be near enough to the air temperature as there's more air in snow than water. Deep down it could in fact be warmer I s'pose because the ground will be warming it.
I assume that's the reasoning behind an igloo. All the air in the snow becomes an insulator.


Tip tip tip......tap tap tap....

[liftlid]

Cold enough for shrinkage?


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What are you putting in it???

[taslucas]

Here's a question how cold is the snow on the ground?

It's frozen water so I suppose it has be close to zero or below


Don't know the exact answer but near the surface if the snow it will be near enough to the air temperature as there's more air in snow than water. Deep down it could in fact be warmer I s'pose because the ground will be warming it.
I assume that's the reasoning behind an igloo. All the air in the snow becomes an insulator.


Tip tip tip......tap tap tap....

Yeah an igloo stops wind chill and traps the warmth coming off your body.
In emergency situations they say to dig a hole into the snow. I suppose the "cold sump" effect of cold air sitting at the lowest point is out weighed by the hole stopping wind chill and creating a pocket of insulating warmer air around you.

[MudRunnerTD]

324143241532416

The bloke in that last pic is Liftlid

Pics taken at 2:30am. Awesome night! Rolled the swags out at 5:30am

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[liftlid]

Gotta love that, picture of me and you can't tell it's me!!!!!

[AB]

I built an igloo and slept in it. 4am it collapsed in on me....lol....last time I ever try that!

Now that was a cold night!

[liftlid]

So that's where you put it!

[Drewboyaus]

Here is a useful link for those wanting some tips on how to be comfortable when snow camping:

http://bushwalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=4139


Tip tip tip......tap tap tap....

[liftlid]

Here is a useful link for those wanting some tips on how to be comfortable when snow camping:

http://bushwalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=4139


Tip tip tip......tap tap tap....

Some interesting info on how others camp while bushwalking could help thinking that all there problems would be solved by taking a Nissan Patrol!!

[Matt195583]

I use an 11x11 canvass wall tent with a homemade wood heater. I have camped for a week in an area where the lows were -9 and stayed toasty warm.

[rusty_nail]

I built an igloo and slept in it. 4am it collapsed in on me....lol....last time I ever try that!

Now that was a cold night!

hahahahaha im a bit late to this one, but I pissed myself with this one mate! can just imagine the shock on your face!!!!

[rusty_nail]

Here is a useful link for those wanting some tips on how to be comfortable when snow camping:

http://bushwalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=4139


Tip tip tip......tap tap tap....

not sure if anyone read Drewboys link but there was another link on that link whi took me here:

http://bushwalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1008

100% a very funny read, and very informative haha.

[Cuppa]

Definitely a beanie.
Keep your socks on.
Hollow fibre sleeping bags are better than down if they get wet.
Insulation under the mattress, newspaper is good, but a pain if it gets wet. Closed cell foam mats are good too.
Some sleeping bags are rated to sell, rather than to use in the rated temps. Getting one made by a reputable company should be a guarantee of quality. Hooded type with drawstring, half zip & an internal zip cover.

Best to do snow camping when young! My days of waking cold, damp & achy with my boots frozen together are long gone. The idea of stuffing around with a swag in the snow holds no appeal whatsoever ........ But I am looking forward to hearing the tales from the forthcoming snow trip. You young'uns have gotta learn. :)

Cuppa

[liftlid]

Thanks fit the tips grandpa!

[liftlid]

Thanks fit the tips grandpa!

For...... sodding phone!

[threedogs]

This is very similar to what I use in the cooler climate