TD42 Information

[mudski]

Kind of loosely looking around for a TD42 to chuck in my GU to replace the dirty 30. Nothing wrong with the current engine, low k's and goes great, but it ain't a TD42. I want something turbo and intercooled but have NFI on these engines. I'm thinking of buying something that needs a rebuild, chuck it on the stand and slowly build it.
Whats a silvertop and a blacktop?
Differences between the early GU TD42's to the last of them?
Can I use a TD42 from a GQ or should I get one from a U? Any advantage of using one from a later GU over the earlier GU's?
So many questions I don't even know I need to know...Lol.
Just so I know what I'm looking at when I see them advertised.

Cheers.

[nissannewby]

The later factory intercooled are the pick of the lot. Other than that a silver top with a turbo and gu pump would be the next go. Engine prices wil vary from 2k-6k.

With that conversion you need to relocate engine mounts on he chassis (cut and weld)

[AB]

Lots of arguments to be had of which is better, silver top or black top.

Obvious difference is the colour of the rocker covers...lol

Silvertops were the original TD42 early GQ (Pre mid 90's) and have stronger conrods but the GU blacktops have the oil drain plug set up in the block which is a bonus. Loads of other differences between the two but both solid engines as you know.

They are the same block mate so should go in ok, I've never done this so hopefully someone else can advise more but I would assume the engine mounts would not line up from the GQ TD42.

Personally I would be trying to find a 4.2 from a GU TD42T and check out the forum for the conversions to convert ZD30 to TD42.


EDIT: Took too long thinking.....Matty answered before me...lol

[growler2058]

Silver!!!!!!!!
Edit : I hope

[threedogs]

You'll have to match or better the year you have ATM
EG you cant put pre pollution in, not that you would but,
if yours is 2001-2002 you'll need to match it. OR save and get a crate motor and build it
over time, As Newby suggests anything from 2001 is fine, later the better

[MudRunnerTD]

Give Brett a call at 4x4Obsession in Melton he has done a heap of these conversions mate, he might even be able to line you up an engine. at least tell you the going rate in Vic for one and the legalities of the years and stuff. He has done this conversion many many times.

He might even have one in his shed you could look at ;) give you a chance to look at the engine mount mods that Newby is talking about ;)

[Alitis007]

Any engine conversions emissions need to comply with what ever is newer for eg if you car is '01 and you motor is '99 your current emissions should be fine but if your car is '01 and the motor is '06 you will need to get the emission system from a '06 vehicle. Not sure if you need to get an engineers cert but coz the car did come out from factory with the 4.2 you shouldn't have too many dramas.

[mudski]

Thanks for the info guys. I'm not buying straight away but am looking around. I don't want to find a good buy only to find out I found the wrong engine. So if they call if a black top, thats what I'm after...
I know of the emissions reg's, to a point, and the basics of what I will need for the conversion, most of it anyhow. Like I said, I just want to know what I'm looking at. My lil' 30 is still going strong so I'm in no rush. Plus, a few more weeks I think and I'll be ordering a locker.


Give Brett a call at 4x4Obsession in Melton he has done a heap of these conversions mate, he might even be able to line you up an engine. at least tell you the going rate in Vic for one and the legalities of the years and stuff. He has done this conversion many many times.

He might even have one in his shed you could look at ;) give you a chance to look at the engine mount mods that Newby is talking about ;)
Funny you mention this guy Darren. We informally met at my cousin's kid's first birthday party. Brett lives across the road from my cousin and was there at the party. I didn't realise who it was until he left and I asked the question of identity as I had seen him from somewhere.
But I will contact him I think when I'm ready to do the transplant.

It would be good to have a list of all the things needed to be done and bought for this work so when I am actually ready Ican make sure I have everything.

[Mikees]

If you check out Simon Christie’s 4WD Pro Tips – Episode 24, on the website, Brett from Obsession 4x4 does an LS2 conversion on Danny's 80. Pricing was around $14-16k for a TD42T conversion. Add more dollars for a pump and turbo upgrade.

[florix]

When doing my conversion I spoke to a local engineer and he stated that due to emissions I had to get an engine from a later model. Also in regards to mounts, if you were to cut the chassis to adjust the mounts to suit you will need an engineers cert (in NSW) for it, however if there is no major adjustments then your fine; just change the engine number, power and weight on the records because they came out factory with it. So making a bracket for the block was the path i went, which then takes you to I could put an earlier model engine in, however I think If you crash they may say otherwise.

[mudski]

If you check out Simon Christie’s 4WD Pro Tips – Episode 24, on the website, Brett from Obsession 4x4 does an LS2 conversion on Danny's 80. Pricing was around $14-16k for a TD42T conversion. Add more dollars for a pump and turbo upgrade.
14k for the conversion!!!! That must be everything brand new paid at a premium price. I wouldn't even bother on my old clunker for that.
I will be looking for an engine that needs a rebuild and slowly do it up until its ready to drop in. My ZD30 still have a lot of life in it so I have time. I hope. I'm more worried about my gearbox at the moment.

@ Florix, I would be putting anything older in when I eventually go down that path. No point going backwards. I just have to convince the minister of finance and affairs that I need to buy a little shit box as my daily driver so i can garage my troll for some serious mods.

[florix]

If you can find a dead TD42T it would be the way to go but it may be hard to find a never say die engine haha. Have a look through auctions for wrecked cars too. But due to them being sought after they do ask a bit for them, when I was searching a bloke tried to hit me up for 20K! Told him he was dreaming

[mudski]

O.k To drag up an old thread of mine....
I have a dead TD42T motor here. Well, almost a motor. What it's missing is

Cylinder head
Injector pump
Injectors
Turbo
Exhaust manifold
Starter
Alternator
A/C pump
other bits that I don't know of...

So, as I need to get this stuff, I suppose a cylinder head would be first, then a rebuild kit and then go down the list? I'll start off saying that as I have to build this thing, I don't want to make it stock. As for power figures if I get asked. Eff knows! I really have no idea on what to expect from one Turbo, IP and IC setup to another. So this maybe be hard...
So the questions will begin just so I can understand these donks a bit more....
The cylinder head.
Best to get a new one complete? Or can I get a second hand one and then spend the $$$ on recoíng it? Can I use a GQ head? Is a GQ head better or worse than a GU head?
What sort of money should I expect to pay for a new head complete? Same goes for second hand?

Injector pump.
As I don't have one this is another thing I am in the dark about. I see many advertised with 11mm or 12mm upgrades. This is obviously something to do with fuel supply. But what and how? I assume I need a boost compensated pump? What is a boost compensated pump? What sort of $$$ should I expect to pay say for a stock second hand one, and a rebuilt upgraded one.

Turbo
This is quite confusing to me. As there is many different sorts and sizes around. What means what? Like HT18-2, Garret GT2860, Kinugawa TD05-16G and 18G just to name a few. Whats the difference? Do they all bolt up the same? Or require a different manifold and dump pipe?

Intercooler.
This is pretty self explanatory here. Get the biggest you can afford, but not too small for the application. But then it comes to the question of air to air or water to air.

It would be good for all I think to have a reference guide for TD42's, like there is for the ZD30. Where information can be stored online, not just in peoples heads... I will have more Q's as I am slowly going through the process of the build. As two people I know withing 4 days of each other had their ZD30's drop the pin, so I'm getting a little nervous and need to get this motor started atleast...

Thanks.

[Col.T]

Just a thought, a rather evil thought.
Going back to Florix's post, being a motor sickle man from way back there's a tendency to think that if you're not going to write it off, the relative year/engine/model/emission control/hotted motor etc. etc. shouldn't bother anyone.
Hell! I can't believe I said that.
World's full of opportunities,
Col

[Ben-e-boy]

O.k To drag up an old thread of mine....
I have a dead TD42T motor here. Well, almost a motor. What it's missing is

Cylinder head
Injector pump
Injectors
Turbo
Exhaust manifold
Starter
Alternator
A/C pump
other bits that I don't know of...

So, as I need to get this stuff, I suppose a cylinder head would be first, then a rebuild kit and then go down the list? I'll start off saying that as I have to build this thing, I don't want to make it stock. As for power figures if I get asked. Eff knows! I really have no idea on what to expect from one Turbo, IP and IC setup to another. So this maybe be hard...
So the questions will begin just so I can understand these donks a bit more....
The cylinder head.
Best to get a new one complete? Or can I get a second hand one and then spend the $$$ on recoíng it? Can I use a GQ head? Is a GQ head better or worse than a GU head?
What sort of money should I expect to pay for a new head complete? Same goes for second hand?

Injector pump.
As I don't have one this is another thing I am in the dark about. I see many advertised with 11mm or 12mm upgrades. This is obviously something to do with fuel supply. But what and how? I assume I need a boost compensated pump? What is a boost compensated pump? What sort of $$$ should I expect to pay say for a stock second hand one, and a rebuilt upgraded one.

Turbo
This is quite confusing to me. As there is many different sorts and sizes around. What means what? Like HT18-2, Garret GT2860, Kinugawa TD05-16G and 18G just to name a few. Whats the difference? Do they all bolt up the same? Or require a different manifold and dump pipe?

Intercooler.
This is pretty self explanatory here. Get the biggest you can afford, but not too small for the application. But then it comes to the question of air to air or water to air.

It would be good for all I think to have a reference guide for TD42's, like there is for the ZD30. Where information can be stored online, not just in peoples heads... I will have more Q's as I am slowly going through the process of the build. As two people I know withing 4 days of each other had their ZD30's drop the pin, so I'm getting a little nervous and need to get this motor started atleast...

Thanks.

What do you want from the motor? That is what you want to think about and let us know first.

[mudski]

What do you want from the motor? That is what you want to think about and let us know first.

Well. Reliability and more ponies under the hood than what my current motor is... I know I can't afford big horsepower, but my knowledge on what figures to expect for what I choose is limited to zero on the knowledge scale. Is looking for 140 to 150 kw a stupid thought? Just throwing numbers really.
Let's put it another way. What is Paul getting from his GU?
Sorry if I seem all over the shop, I just don't know where to start with this.
Thanks Benny.

[Drewboyaus]

Why don't you sell your current ride and buy Timbo's TD42 GU?

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

[mudski]

Like every Patrol owner. I have put a lot of hours and coin into my GU to even consider that. Plus I like white...

[mudski]

I see hall 4x4 have a injector pump from an 04 td42ti. The block I have is a td42t from and earlier gu. I can't use this on my 01 gu can I?

[Dales300exc]

140-150 is not unreasonable. But its at the higher end of 11mm pump from memory.

TD42Ti pumps had computer controlled fuel advance im pretty sure and as such not worth your time or money.

[Ben-e-boy]

I see hall 4x4 have a injector pump from an 04 td42ti. The block I have is a td42t from and earlier gu. I can't use this on my 01 gu can I?

That pump is the electronic version, the block would be the same but you would have to sort the smarts that control it

[mudski]

So a no go Ben? Say for arguments sake. What price should I be looking at for a good second hand injector pump?

[Ben-e-boy]

So a no go Ben? Say for arguments sake. What price should I be looking at for a good second hand injector pump?

There is no issue with the electronic version, the (sort of) issue is a few diesel shops steer clear of it, and when tuning just disconnectmthe electronics and it defaults to full advance.

The pump is the the heart of the engine. I know it is an extra cost but a brand new pump should (IMO must) be budgeted for.

As Dale said 150kw can be achieved on an 11mm but it is at the high end of its capapbility.

[mudski]

Taking all this in... so ideally I don't get an electronic pump? But I must get one from a GU....

[Ben-e-boy]

I would spend 2k on a 12mm pump.

[mudski]

I'd assume that would be on a rebuilt unit?

[Dales300exc]

Spend as little as possible on a core to send away for rebuild. Gq or gu. Makes no difference if its being custom built.

[nissannewby]

Spend as little as possible on a core to send away for rebuild. Gq or gu. Makes no difference if its being custom built.

It does a little as they will charge you more if you supply them with a non compensated and want a compensated item.

[nissannewby]

So a no go Ben? Say for arguments sake. What price should I be looking at for a good second hand injector pump?

A mechanical pump will be a lot easier. If you wanted to spend the coin and unichip it you could see some nice results but it will cost you. A good secondhand unit should be around 6-800. But knowing pump condition is like trying to know the condition of a secondhand motor.

[nissannewby]

Well. Reliability and more ponies under the hood than what my current motor is... I know I can't afford big horsepower, but my knowledge on what figures to expect for what I choose is limited to zero on the knowledge scale. Is looking for 140 to 150 kw a stupid thought? Just throwing numbers really.
Let's put it another way. What is Paul getting from his GU?
Sorry if I seem all over the shop, I just don't know where to start with this.
Thanks Benny.

Paul's I believe made about 127kw at the wheels.

[nissannewby]

I'd assume that would be on a rebuilt unit?

Yes it will be rebuilt. If you have a pump built then the cost between an 11mm, which is what comes on a td42t, and a 12mm isn't much then you will have plenty of room to move and 150 will be a walk in the park.

[mudski]

A mechanical pump will be a lot easier. If you wanted to spend the coin and unichip it you could see some nice results but it will cost you. A good secondhand unit should be around 6-800. But knowing pump condition is like trying to know the condition of a secondhand motor.

So the unichip is for the later GU TD42ti pumps? I am considering buying the pump from hall 4x4 but want to be sure. Or I might just wait and get the cylinder head first, rebuild the mote and then worry about the bolt on bits....
As or the heads. I can use and TD42 head? Blacktop or silver top? Some heads I see come complete ready to go. Would you recommend that or is there any work that I should, or could do to the head first? As for the power number I have said I am chasing, it was a figure I really just pulled out of my head as I really don't know what to expect with what different mods that are available. But I don't want to build a stock motor too, but at the same time, nothing too great as costs come with this aswell.


It does a little as they will charge you more if you supply them with a non compensated and want a compensated item.

So what is boost compensated mean and do?
Sorry mate. This is a big learning curve for me....

Thanks for your input.

[Dales300exc]

Boost compensation stops it dumping fuel in off boost. Reduces the cloud of black out the back while off boost.

[Winnie]

Yes it will be rebuilt. If you have a pump built then the cost between an 11mm, which is what comes on a td42t, and a 12mm isn't much then you will have plenty of room to move and 150 will be a walk in the park.

Really? Mine will need a rebuild eventually. Would there be much point in going 12mm on my setup?
Mine at the moment is a worn standard GU compensated pump
When diesel tec did the tune he said "there was play in the shaft and it will be okay for a while but will need a rebuild"
Whatever that means!

[relyimah]

Really? Mine will need a rebuild eventually. Would there be much point in going 12mm on my setup?
Mine at the moment is a worn standard GU compensated pump
When diesel tec did the tune he said "there was play in the shaft and it will be okay for a while but will need a rebuild"
Whatever that means!

Probably means get it done when you can afford it for peace of mind mate. I had mine done when the engine was out being rebuilt. Also had the compensator added as it was a NA pump.
Unfortunately I seem to be dumping MORE black smoke than ever but I get the feeling it may have been a bad tune??

[Winnie]

Probably means get it done when you can afford it for peace of mind mate. I had mine done when the engine was out being rebuilt. Also had the compensator added as it was a NA pump.
Unfortunately I seem to be dumping MORE black smoke than ever but I get the feeling it may have been a bad tune??

Thanks mate, a good tune should sort that out. Turn the fuel down and you will blow less fuel, but may make less power... Need to find a happy medium!

[relyimah]

Yeah. My biggest issue is I basically turned my engine into a turbo engine when I had it rebuilt. But no intercooler so can't up the boost to make similar power. Save save save. Lol.

[Ben-e-boy]

Really? Mine will need a rebuild eventually. Would there be much point in going 12mm on my setup?
Mine at the moment is a worn standard GU compensated pump
When diesel tec did the tune he said "there was play in the shaft and it will be okay for a while but will need a rebuild"
Whatever that means!

How much power do you want

[Winnie]

How much power do you want

I am happy with what I have but if more is easy to get without changing much more then....

[Ben-e-boy]

I am happy with what I have but if more is easy to get without changing much more then....

Just refresh the 11mm then

[nissannewby]

So the unichip is for the later GU TD42ti pumps? I am considering buying the pump from hall 4x4 but want to be sure. Or I might just wait and get the cylinder head first, rebuild the mote and then worry about the bolt on bits....
As or the heads. I can use and TD42 head? Blacktop or silver top? Some heads I see come complete ready to go. Would you recommend that or is there any work that I should, or could do to the head first? As for the power number I have said I am chasing, it was a figure I really just pulled out of my head as I really don't know what to expect with what different mods that are available. But I don't want to build a stock motor too, but at the same time, nothing too great as costs come with this aswell.



So what is boost compensated mean and do?
Sorry mate. This is a big learning curve for me....

Thanks for your input.

Yes the Unichip is for the TD42Ti.

Yes you can use any of those heads. However I would recommend using a turbo head. There are minor differences between them and since you are going to turbo then it will benefit. As for the head buy it (making sure its in good nic obviously) and fit it. New head bolts are a must.

Boost compensated is basically as Dale has described it. Obviously with a turbo you can dump in more fuel to make power. The compensator allows you to then control that extra fuel using a boost reference. So you basically end up with power and economy.

[nissannewby]

Really? Mine will need a rebuild eventually. Would there be much point in going 12mm on my setup?
Mine at the moment is a worn standard GU compensated pump
When diesel tec did the tune he said "there was play in the shaft and it will be okay for a while but will need a rebuild"
Whatever that means!


Just refresh the 11mm then

I should have worded my original post a little better. If you start with a NA 10mm pump then upgrading to an 11 or 12mm there isn't really much between the 2. If you already have an 11mm compensated then you have to ask yourself the question ben-e posed.

You can get the 11's built mate to then support even 150rwkw easily.

[nissannewby]

Probably means get it done when you can afford it for peace of mind mate. I had mine done when the engine was out being rebuilt. Also had the compensator added as it was a NA pump.
Unfortunately I seem to be dumping MORE black smoke than ever but I get the feeling it may have been a bad tune??

Who built the pump?

A bad tune will cause that. Do you know what the compensator pin profile is?

[Winnie]

You can get the 11's built mate to then support even 150rwkw easily.

Any idea on a rough price? I know different shops will be different but just a rough figure to work with? I will go with Diesel Tec to build the pump.
150kw would be real nice, I have been thinking it will cost about 2k

[Dales300exc]

12mm from Diesel central (starting with a gq pump) $2850. 11mm proba few hungy less.

[nissannewby]

Any idea on a rough price? I know different shops will be different but just a rough figure to work with? I will go with Diesel Tec to build the pump.
150kw would be real nice, I have been thinking it will cost about 2k


12mm from Diesel central (starting with a gq pump) $2850. 11mm proba few hungy less.

You will have to discuss it with diesel tec and also see what he recommends he may recommend a diesel central pump.

I believe a DC3 which is a modded 11mm will set you back around the $2600 mark.

[Winnie]

You will have to discuss it with diesel tec and also see what he recommends he may recommend a diesel central pump.

I believe a DC3 which is a modded 11mm will set you back around the $2600 mark.

Is that to buy outright though or like an exchange type deal?

[nissannewby]

Is that to buy outright though or like an exchange type deal?

I believe that is on exchange mate. Diesel central do real good work hence the price tag that comes with it.

[Dales300exc]

Yes. Exchange.

[mudski]

Would this head be o.k to rebuild?
http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/ransome/engine-engine-parts-transmission/patrol-td42t-block-and-head-late-model/1051359931