Removing a front hub seal?

[Cuppa]

What is the best way to remove the seal from the rear of a front wheel hub?

I have the hub in a vice & need to remove the old seal to get the inner bearing out. The old seal is damaged & needs replacing anyway.

Is it best to try to get behind the seal with a screwdriver & lever it out or to knock the seal in towards it's centre (collapsing it) ........ or is there a better way. I am mindful that I don't want to damage it's housing.

Whilst I'm at it - what is the best way of fitting a replacement seal. I don't have a large drift of the same diameter as the seal. Will I be alright tapping it in bit by bit with a rubber/nylon mallet?

Cuppa

[threedogs]

Not sure on Patrol but normally tap in new seal using the old, if no a socket of the correct diameter

[growler2058]

Are we talking swivel hub seal?
Once the entire hub is apart it should just fall out and the new one just sits in then the retaining plate re installed

[growler2058]

Axle seal is different and a shit load of care needs to be taken
Yes a drift is best I would be ultra careful any other way
Also re inserting the axle be careful they are piss easy to damage

[Cuppa]

It's this seal........is that what you call the axle seal? If so you've got me worried. It's quite a large diameter seal - what do others use as a drift?

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2013/06/148.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuppa500/9141605528/)

Axle itself has not been removed, just the disc rotor & hub.

Cuppa

[june]

i would use the old seal to tap in the new one, but you could use a brass drift if you are very careful not to damage lip seals.

[MudRunnerTD]

Just lever it of with a screw driver Cuppa.

That is not the seal Growler is referring to mate, don't worry, he is talking about the inner axle seal lodged inside the diff tube. All good.

As others have stated a gentle tap and maybe the old seal and you should have little trouble mate

[threedogs]

Smear new seal surface with oil or grease to avoid any nicks ,as Growler is saying easy to damage

[Cuppa]

That is not the seal Growler is referring to mate, don't worry,

That's good to know. :)
I have managed to lever it out without any damage using a tyre lever. It came out without too much trouble, so putting the new one back in, when it arrives shouldn't be a drama as I'll be able to use the old seal as suggested. The hardest bit will be not damaging it when I replace the disc/hub assembly on the shaft, only because it's heavy which will probably make guiding it back on harder but I think it's quite do-able. Good practice for the one on the other side. :) (Although I may not change it if it's not damaged - or should I change it anyway?)

Cuppa

[pearcey]

G`day Cuppa.
You will find a tension spring mounted behind the main lip smear this with grease and it will stop it from popping out during instillation.
If you replaced the bearings use the old cup to install the seal. Just sit it on the seal and slowly tap around and around until the seal is home.

[pearcey]

Allways change the seals even if you remove the hub for some other reason. It`s the cheapest part but dose the hardest job keeping water dust and other contaminates out of bearings while retaining lubrication.

[Cuppa]

Thanks Pearcey, no I didn't change the bearings. I was dismantling the manual hub for a couple of reasons. I decided to repack the bearings so I knew what sort of condition they were in & to ensure that they had plenty of grease and to learn what I'd be up for if I ever need to put in a new bearing when in remote areas.
As a result of the exercise, I have now made two 'special tools', one to remove the lipped spacer, & another to adjust the pre-load on the bearings. I also now know to carry spare seals as well as bearings!

Cuppa

[Morton]

Cuppa, its fun playing in there now that you have had a taste, doing this will save you money in the long run, just put it in your maintenance schedule

[Alitis007]

Bit late now but i remove grease seals by punching out the bearing, i put a long punch on the bearing inner race and tap it out evenly. You have to be careful not to touch the outer race coz you will damage it. I also use a hammer to tap in the grease seals but i have damaged many in the process learning my technic. When your re installing the rotor hub back onto the stub axle the bearing inner race will act as your guid and as said above a smear of grease on the new seal will help lubricate it while its turning, just make sure the stub axle is clean when your re installing the rotor hub.

One thing that is important that no one has mentioned is the direction of the grease seal, it looks to be double sided but one side is to hold the grease in and foreign material out on the other. If you have taken a pic before you removed it, great! If not you may have to pull the other rotor hub off to ensure you install the grease seal correctly.

[june]

most lip seals have a spring around them on one side. the spring normal faces the oil/ grease side.

[threedogs]

Plus don't use a brass drift to tap in bearings, or alloy they chip use a steel drift and as Alitis suggests only TAP

[Col.T]

Cuppa,
you've got me slightly whacked mate. 1.5K posts , thanked mega times and you're asking about wheel bearings?????
I'm a bit surprised.
My first wheel bearing grease was done back in about '51 on a 1923 Dodge tourer. Daddy was very definite on 'the boy' learning these things. Subsequently I've been staggered to find how little has changed in the realms of mechanical systems/concepts. Just as an aside, Daddy was a tightarse and NOTHING was replaced if it could be reused.
The outside bearing falls off as you surely know. The two spacers may need a niggle with a blade of some type but should never need enough to cause damage.
The inside bearing is quite tightly held in by a hard rubber seal which includes a wound steel 'spring'. Put the rotor/inner seal assembly on two wood blocks, with the inner seal down, blocks wide enough to hold the lot but spaced to allow the inner bearing/seal to drop down through. A bit of grease/oil whilst manouvering on the rotor surface won't matter as long as it's cleaned off before reassembly. Use a steel or whatever drift to poke down from the top onto the inside race (I think that's the term) of the bearing and gently, hit it with a hammer, working progressively around the full circumference in a star pattern.
DO NOT belt the crap out of it in one place or you might, probably not but might distort the inner race. This would be an incredibly heavy bummer resulting in a new bearing being required and my dear departed Daddy turning over for sure.
Once it's out , simply clean fully, repack and replace. Remembering same applies. DO NOT belt the crap to get it back in with a hammer.
I've been taught and found that a solid block of wood placed over the reversed rotor/bearing/seal can be tapped in the centre with a hammer and if your aim is true will place all force evenly on the seal and bearing. A clean hit on the block with a heavy maul/hammer is better than whacking away with something too light. Goes without saying that the seal MUST be aligned truly.
Seats well with no damage.
Alitis007 is on the ball but I think you may finf my reinstall is helpful
regards
Col

[Cuppa]

Thanks Col, sorry to have 'whacked' you.
Most of my mechanical experience has been on old Brit motorcycles, and not for many years.
Asking basic stuff here serves two purposes. One is to provide me with a reminder of what I used to know, & the reassurance that goes with that. The second is to provide others who are completely new to such tasks with the knowledge they require.
I too have been a little 'whacked' by the comments made by some about just taking their vehicles to a mechanic & not wanting to 'know'. Although this is the line I would most likely take for bigger tasks, being able to do basic stuff like changing wheel bearings in the middle of Woop Woop, is something I reckon anyone planning on going to Woop Woop should do. Until now I had never seen the inside of a 4wd hub. The amount of my posts & thanks received is certainly not reflective of my mechanical skills & confidence.

Thanks again
Cuppa

[Col.T]

Cuppa' you've gone way up the ladder.
Forget the 4x4 just keep up the M/Cickle. Mine's currently a Kwaka 1500. You only live once so why waste it?
Col

[pearcey]

Sorry Cuppa but I can`t help my self.So as you have owned some British bikes you would be a specialist in oil leaks.

[Cuppa]

Sorry Cuppa but I can`t help my self.So as you have owned some British bikes you would be a specialist in oil leaks.

Possibly a reasonable assessment! Like any motor it depends to some extent on how much they've been butchered by previous owners, & the skill/care taken when putting them together. Most oil tight I had was a '52 Ariel Red Hunter, but could never permanently seal the front rocker box. Using the thick grey graphite covered gaskets would work for a while, but when the leak started it was impossible to miss. A fine oil mist would spray onto the underside of the fuel tank, eventually collecting enough to make a large drip. first you knew it was leaking again was when the drip fell down onto the exhaust pipe, creating an effective 'fog', & thereafter would repeat itself about once per mile. :). This is officially know as 'having character'. The Triumphs always marked their spot. Quite useful having an oily motor on the Uk's salted winter roads, oily boots weren't quite so good. Both Triumphs in my shed now are oil tight.

Don't mention Joe Lucas, Prince of Darkness!

Cuppa

[pearcey]

Sorry about the hijack but I work for some time on those wonderful BMC products IE Mini`s, Austin 1800`s ,Jaguars, and the odd Rolls Royce. Oil leaks OH what fun. Didn`t Mr Lucas loose the contract for the Electric Chair, but did brilliantly with intermittent wipers. Hope all is well with the front bearings and seals .

Pearcey

[Parksy]

Brings back memories of my old landy. If it wasn't leaking, it was out if oil. And the ghost of Lucus would haunt me at night by switching the lights off on me.

[Cuppa]

Brings back memories of my old landy. If it wasn't leaking, it was out if oil. And the ghost of Lucus would haunt me at night by switching the lights off on me.

My 2A Landy ute was oiltight .................................................. ........................... but it did have a freshly rebuilt 186 in it.

[Parksy]

Mine had a 186 in it also, rear main seal went on it. Gearbox, diffs, transfer case was always oily. Didn't have to worry about rust protection because it already had it. So much character, and the smell. Still own it, sitting in mums backyard in Melbourne. Swb series 3.

[88GQwithlift]

may aswell do both sides mate.. easy to do whilst all apart and a seal isnt much.. could prevent you pulling at back apart in the next month or 2

[Cuppa]

Jobs done. Bearings repacked, new 'egg rings' & new seals. Took the car for a test drive to ensure all was well. Drove a few kilometres without using brakes & then coasted to a stop & felt the hubs. No heat in the hubs was a good sign, as was the fact that the hubs locked in ok. I took a track which I thought I knew where it went. Got it wrong, wasn't the track I thought it was. It turned into a narrow overgrown, low range, steep & slippery track with occasional 'jump ups' (to slow water run off) which eventually took me to a dead end with minimal turning space between tree stumps. The multiple point turn involved having to back into the close growing scrub & the drive back up the hill was 'interesting' with plenty of counter steering required as the track was muddy in places. Quite good fun really. I was pleasantly surprised at being able to traverse the 'jump ups' without scraping anything under the vehicle. Probably fairly mild stuff really, but enough for a few 'heart in the mouth' moments out there alone. If I'd got stuck it would've been a 7km or 8km walk home.

[pearcey]

Great to hear all`s good mate, and you were able to try out the hub locks on the test drive.
After about 1000 Ks just check the bearing adjustment, no need to pull it apart just jack it up and check for any side ways movement.
Grab the top and bottom of the wheel and try to rock it sideways. Now this is where it gets a bit tricky as people get confused between wheel
bearing and king pin movement. I`ll try to explain if you have slight movement under very light shaking it`s wheel bearings but if it takes a reasonable effort to get movement then it will be the king pin bearing adjustment PM me your ph no if in dought and I can explain it better.

Pearcey

[Cuppa]

Great to hear all`s good mate, and you were able to try out the hub locks on the test drive.
After about 1000 Ks just check the bearing adjustment, no need to pull it apart just jack it up and check for any side ways movement.
Grab the top and bottom of the wheel and try to rock it sideways. Now this is where it gets a bit tricky as people get confused between wheel
bearing and king pin movement. I`ll try to explain if you have slight movement under very light shaking it`s wheel bearings but if it takes a reasonable effort to get movement then it will be the king pin bearing adjustment PM me your ph no if in dought and I can explain it better

Pearcey

Thanks Pearcey, I reckon I should be right. if there's any movement when I recheck, it's easy enough to adjust the preload on the bearings & if further adjustment isn't feasible without over tightening, then I guess king pins are next on the suspect list. Prior to doing the work, the movement when trying to rock the wheel holding top & bottom was obvious, but has gone completely now.


Wheel bearing were checked/changed at every 5000km service when in Telstra's care.

Cuppa

Ps.I used the old seal, with some of it's rubber cut off as a drift to insert the new seals. Worked well.

[pearcey]

All good Cuppa.
I had 40 years as a brake and clutch specialist mech and it`s some times hard to explain little tricks and abnormalities especially on the key board.