How to tell if a bearing needs replacing - Help.

[Cuppa]

I'm having a second look at my front wheel bearings, & this time
decided to repack them rather than just adjust the pre-load.
Problem is I have now just removed the outer bearing from the driver
side, cleaned it up, but really have no idea if it's knackered & in
need of replacement, or whether it's ok for repacking & replacing. I
am reluctant to go further & remove the inner bearing at the moment,
because if I need to renew the bearings, I'll just have to repack this
one & put it back in in order to drive somewhere to get new bearings.

There is no pitting or blue-ing of the rollers that I can see, but if
I hold the inner and outer parts of the cage I can move them from side
to side by a couple of millimetres. Obviously the preload will take up
this play, but how much is too much? See video below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4stqv6IsEg&feature=em-upload_owner
When preload was adjusted on the wheel there was no play. When I
removed the locking ring ( I didn't do this last time) things did seem
a bit dry with metal dust mixed with the grease that was there. This
appears to have come from the hub body where the spacer sits. (I'm not certain that it was like this when i did the adjustment a few days ago. Have driven around 70kms since then. Hubs were not getting hot - I checked). BTW this is not the hub that had the spacer in need of linishing.
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2013/06/123.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuppa500/9079672793/)

Thanks,
Cuppa

[MudRunnerTD]

have you got a pic of the Race Cuppa, i generally am guided by the race mate.

and a face pic of the rollers please

[Cuppa]

Will get back to you shortly MR, thanks.

[threedogs]

Were they making a noise or feel gritty turning wheel by hand ?

[Cuppa]

OK, back again ...... bloody difficult to get detailed close up shots, but have done my best.
First a couple of the rollers - both of the same bearing.
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2013/06/124.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuppa500/9080037431/)
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2013/06/125.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuppa500/9082261722/)

Harder still to get meaningful shots of the race in situ, hope you can see where I was shining the torch.
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2013/06/126.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuppa500/9080038341/)
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2013/06/127.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuppa500/9080037921/)

And no TD they were not making a noise, nor did they feel gritty.

My guess is that they are OK, but I lack the experience to feel confident.

Cuppa

[MudRunnerTD]

looks pretty good to me mate

[Cuppa]

looks pretty good to me mate

That's what I wanted to hear, Ta.
So what about the 'wear' on the hub body? Could this have been caused by over tightening of the pre-load (even though it didn't get hot)? And just to be sure, the pic below does show the correct order that things go back in....doesn't it?

I have a awful feeling that when I put it back together last time that I put the pre load 'nut' inside the bush & the locking plate outside it & that this may be what has resulted in the wear on the hub body, as when removing it this time I was able to remove the locking plate just by undoing the two small screws, and unscrewing the pre load nut then pushed out the bush.

Cuppa

[MudRunnerTD]

yes assuming that the bush 4th from the left is the lipped bush then you are missing the "Egg Ring" bush out of that pic which is the sam size but without the lip and is about 15mm wide

[MudRunnerTD]

3rd from the left sits into the lip of that ring but that ring is resting on a ring the same size (a spacer) behind it that is likely still in your housing.

[MudRunnerTD]

Looking at that last pic there is a gouging in that hub. bugger it. the "Egg Ring" i am talking about should be sitting in there but it looks like it is not. It is a spacer between that Bearing race and the lipped ring.

[BigRAWesty]

Yea that's pretty normal play for a taper bearing cuppa. The do come pretty loose new, so yea I'm with MR.
Aslong as its smooth, no grumbling or movement its all good

Kallen Westbrook
Owner of
Westy's Accessories (http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?15134-Westy-s-Accessories.-A-small-back-yard-builder.)

[Cuppa]

yes assuming that the bush 4th from the left is the lipped bush then you are missing the "Egg Ring" bush out of that pic which is the sam size but without the lip and is about 15mm wide

Yes it,s the lipped ring. Have not seen the 'egg ring' one, will have a look in the housing after I've had lunch.

This may all seem very basic to some, but without this sort of forum support I wouldn't attempting this alone. Thanks again.

Cuppa

[MudRunnerTD]

http://nissanpatrol.com.au/images/Stripping%20the%20GQ/GQ%20gauges%20and%20stuff/Screenshot2011-08-14at103139AM.png

[MudRunnerTD]

so see the line drawn on this pic.

Drive Clutch,
Bushing (lipped spacer)
Spacer. You need the spacer mate

[Cuppa]

Bugger! NO SPACER! (See pic in my first post of this thread).
I'll have to put it back without I suppose. It must have been running like this ever since I got it! I'm certain I didn't remove it when adjusting the preload a few days ago. Bollocks! Now I'll have to dismantle the passenger side to see if it has one. Double bollocks.
Any chance someone has a part number?

Cuppa

[threedogs]

Not trying to puta downer on it but has the inside of bearing been turning on axle shaft????

[MudRunnerTD]

Not trying to puta downer on it but has the inside of bearing been turning on axle shaft????

yeah i saw that too 3D, thought it was a little Odd but really cant see how it would unless that bearing was fully seized mate? Surely? That bearing looks to be quite new other than that scoring on the inside?? strange.

[mudnut]

Is the axle surface scored, Cuppa?

[threedogs]

What brand bearing are they BTW ???

[Cuppa]

If you are looking at the scoring inside the housing it's the lipped bush which has turned inside the housing. There is evidence of the outer side of the bush 'picking up' slightly (but it's still a pretty reasonable fit after I cleaned it up a little). The bearing sits a lot further in than where that scoring is. I don't believe the race has turned in the housing. I'm wondering if the lack of the spacer may have something to do with the lipped bush turning?

I have just finished putting it all back together & it feels as good as it did before. Smooth & no bearing movement. I also noted that the 'double washers' which are supposed to sit under the heads of the Allen bolts which hold the manual hub selector on are also missing.

It's too late now to pull the passenger side hub apart to check if it has the spacer or not, the light will beat me, so I'll do it tomorrow.

Is there any reason why someone might choose not to fit the spacer? (I'm not clear what it actually does as the pre-load lock nut prevents the lipped spacer from sliding in further.
Aha! I expect it is needed to take account of bearing adjustment as the bearing wears???

If anyone has the part number for the (non lipped) spacer it would be really helpful. (’06 GU).

Cuppa

[Cuppa]

Oh god...... I think I just realised what you were looking at, first pic in post 5?
I can't say with 100% certainty, but don't recall it being 'rough'. I *think* that the lines are probably just marks from the toothbrush I used to clean it, but will have to make certain when I pull it down again to fit a spacer.

Another sleepless night ahead! Surely if the inner being were turning on the shaft it would sound & feel rough & generate heat ....... None of which it has.

NSK bearing TD.

Cuppa.

EDIT: Here's another pic taken whilst it was out ....... doesn't look quite so bad (he says with breath held).
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2013/06/128.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuppa500/9081169145/)

[NP99]

Just a reminder if pulling the axle out, the copper spacer next to Birfield joint must go back on correctly or it won't all fit back. Nissannewby took the time to explain this tip to me!

[MudRunnerTD]

If you are looking at the scoring inside the housing it's the lipped bush which has turned inside the housing. There is evidence of the outer side of the bush 'picking up' slightly (but it's still a pretty reasonable fit after I cleaned it up a little). The bearing sits a lot further in than where that scoring is. I don't believe the race has turned in the housing. I'm wondering if the lack of the spacer may have something to do with the lipped bush turning?

I have just finished putting it all back together & it feels as good as it did before. Smooth & no bearing movement. I also noted that the 'double washers' which are supposed to sit under the heads of the Allen bolts which hold the manual hub selector on are also missing.

It's too late now to pull the passenger side hub apart to check if it has the spacer or not, the light will beat me, so I'll do it tomorrow.

Is there any reason why someone might choose not to fit the spacer? (I'm not clear what it actually does as the pre-load lock nut prevents the lipped spacer from sliding in further.
Aha! I expect it is needed to take account of bearing adjustment as the bearing wears???

If anyone has the part number for the (non lipped) spacer it would be really helpful. (’06 GU).

Cuppa

here you go Cuppa

http://www.patrolapart.com.au/product/hub-nut-kits-sockets/nissan-patrol-free-wheeling-hub-egg-2

[Cuppa]

Thanks MR, I see they do actually call it an Egg ring. :)

Cuppa

[june]

those bearing rollers look good to me. but 3d might be on the money there looks like a slight hot stop on the inner race.

[Cuppa]

I guess I'm going to have to strip it again to check the shaft, but will wait until I've got the egg ring spacer (or two if the pasenger side is also missing one)

Ok here's another question relating to the possibility that the inner bearing has been turning on the shaft ...... just trying to think it through.

The inner bearing is not a press fit on the shaft, with the lock nut removed the bearing inner can be removed by hand with a little jiggling. So, does this mean that essentially it is the pre-load provided by the lock nut which would prevent the bearing from turning on the shaft? If so is turning on the shaft something you might expect if the bearings were in need of adjustment?

If the bearing HAS turned on the shaft what will be required - a new shaft/ a sleeve/ loctite to hold bearing/ undersize bearing? or .......?
What is involved in replacing a shaft? I'm thinking it's a 'take it to an expert' job.

Cuppa

[Cuppa]

Some good news, some not so good news, & some reassuring news.

Firstly, having once again pulled out that bearing (practice makes perfect) & given it a good clean, I am confident that it has not turned on the shaft. Although it,s hard to see the shaft itself in situ, most of those 'lines' apparent in the photos on the inside of the inner race cleaned off. A couple of marks remain, but there is absolutely nothing to feel with a fingernail.

Secondly, the egg ring spacer is absent from both driver & passenger side. Grrrrr. I'm guessing that at some point between the last recorded Telstra service at 145,000kms & me buying it at 154,000 that the bearings were replaced & this is when the egg rings didn't get put back in, most likely by the car yard.

Thirdly, new egg ring spacers have been ordered from Patrolapart. Paul, the chap I spoke to there was good to talk to, & told me it is not that uncommon to find these spacers missing. Of importance (to me) he reckoned that the lack of these spacers is only a problem when in 4wd & under load, & that there would be no problem at all for me to drive the car in 2wd until I fit the new egg rings.

Cuppa

[93patrol]

well thats good to know Cuppa bet it was a bit of a relief to hear that