GQ died now wont start

[hershal]

So I am slowly getting a little annoyed with this GQ I have just got my hands on. I was driving today down the highway when it decided to lose all power and die. Pulled over and tried to trouble shoot. Seems to have spark. Seems to have fuel. Seems to have air. Soooo I called RAC and they were pretty much no help. So I am just asking if anyone has any quick ideas. I am going to start with the fuel system and then electrical. I am no mechanic but I don't have a problem pulling stuff apart to fix. Any advice would be great. I just want to drive this thing.

[hershal]

Forgot to mention tb42 engine also on gas

[Clunk]

Carby or EFi? Does it die on both fuels or just gas, or just petrol? When was the last time the gas system was serviced?
Not that I'm able to help as my knowledge is almost non existent But may assist others with as much info as possible

MCcrappatappalot signing on..............

[hershal]

Efi. Both on gas and fuel. Had an issue a week ago when I went through a puddle and it died. But I pulled the intake apart and it seemed to go again. Like yourself my knowledge is little. Thanks again for your help. No idea on the gas. Picked this up a week ago. I'll more than likely have to get it to a good mechanic.

[Davesgu]

Hi mate, just wondering, does it just cut out and die or does it cough and splutter so to speak then die? And what happens when you re start it? Does it fire straight up or churn for a while the fire?

[Parksy]

Have heard of people having dramas with their electronic distributors on the tb42e when going through puddles. I'd be pulling that apart and making sure everything is clean and dry.

[Alitis007]

You need a process of elimination so start with spark and injector pulse then check the fuel pressure, power at the lock offs/solenoids,fuses,relays and wires around the battery. Also check that the petrol / gas toggle switch is working correctly but you will know this if there is power to the lock offs. Lastly you can check the motor for compression but one of the above will not be present and point you in the right direction.

[hershal]

Dizzy is dry as, one of the first things I pulled apart. I heard the same thing.

[hershal]

You need a process of elimination so start with spark and injector pulse then check the fuel pressure, power at the lock offs/solenoids,fuses,relays and wires around the battery. Also check that the petrol / gas toggle switch is working correctly but you will know this if there is power to the lock offs. Lastly you can check the motor for compression but one of the above will not be present and point you in the right direction.

It could be the fuel pump. I was running it on fuel as there was no gas in it ( ran it dry to check Kms). My first thought was it ran out of petrol. I was on way to fuel station when this happened. Only had less that a quarter tank. So I was hoping faulty fuel gauge. Wish it was that simple. I filled it up with fuel and still no go

[Alitis007]

Well it just died. Now it won't even crank over.

Are the battery terminals tight? Do the dash light come on with the key in the ON position?? When you turn the key to crank do the lights dim or do you hear a click ??

[hershal]

Battery is not flat. Got 12v. Checked that. Terminals are good. I should of been more specific as to say it does crank over. Just doesn't start.

[Alitis007]

You need a process of elimination so start with spark and injector pulse then check the fuel pressure, power at the lock offs/solenoids,fuses,relays and wires around the battery. Also check that the petrol / gas toggle switch is working correctly but you will know this if there is power to the lock offs. Lastly you can check the motor for compression but one of the above will not be present and point you in the right direction.


Battery is not flat. Got 12v. Checked that. Terminals are good. I should of been more specific as to say it does crank over. Just doesn't start.

Just follow my original post then, i was just eliminating a starter motor coz i thought you said it didn't but all good!

[hershal]

Cheers mate. Going to tackle it a bit this morning. Lets hope it's an easy fix

[hershal]

Alright so I spent a few hours this afternoon trying to problem solve this issue with my car.
I checked the battery - Its fine, removed terminals cleaned put back on tightened, Still fine. Even tried to boost the battery by a jump from my other car, Still nothing - Pretty Much saying its not a battery issue.
Checked the Air Intake system - Pulled it all apart from the Filter to the engine. Even pulled the part where the gas goes in. Don't know much about it but it "seems" good and nothing visually wrong. No blocks or anything like that, no moisture etc.

Pulled Spark Plugs and checked, all look in good condition, but I will probably replace these anyways just to be safe, why not. Leads look all good too. Was getting a spark out of every plug, every lead.

Distributer, Pulled this apart, well removed the cap and cranked the engine, seems to me that its not spinning that fast. Again I am far from an expert but should this thing spin fast or slow? I have uploaded a video to show you what I mean. Please tell me this is the issue :)

Didn't check fuel system yet though, Was working in my garage and didn't want to make a mess But tomorrow ill put down some sheets and trays and pull the filters and check the lines. Can someone also tell me if the fuel pump is mechanical or Electric?

again thanks guys for all you input on this


https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62558109/IMG_2578.MOV

[Parksy]

Seems to be spinning fine hershal.

Is the car fitted with an alarm or engine immobiliser?
If you can get ahold of someone with a noid light to chuck on the injectors, this will indicate if they are pulsing. If you have a pressure guage, chuck it inline on the fuel line after the fuel filter and before the fuel rail. Should get 40psi. If not, this could indicate lots of problems, bad fuel regulator, bad pump, blocked lines, no fuel, who knows...

[the ferret]

Your rotor button looks fine, turning ok.
Have a look inside the top of the dizzy cap and see if the little carbon tip is still there and making contact with the top of the rotor button,it is spring loaded.
Cheers, the ferret.

[hershal]

Seems to be spinning fine hershal.

Is the car fitted with an alarm or engine immobiliser?
If you can get ahold of someone with a noid light to chuck on the injectors, this will indicate if they are pulsing. If you have a pressure guage, chuck it inline on the fuel line after the fuel filter and before the fuel rail. Should get 40psi. If not, this could indicate lots of problems, bad fuel regulator, bad pump, blocked lines, no fuel, who knows...

Car is fitted with an immobiliser, when its on it wont even crank once its off it does crank.
Don't know any one with one of those lights, might be a last case scenario. Ill try and find an inline gauge, im sure you could pick one up from a car place etc, hoping its ok, like I was saying in previous post I was low on fuel when I was off to fill up. Since then I have put more fuel in, hoping there isn't some kind of block or anything,

[hershal]

Your rotor button looks fine, turning ok.
Have a look inside the top of the dizzy cap and see if the little carbon tip is still there and making contact with the top of the rotor button,it is spring loaded.
Cheers, the ferret.

Dizzy cap looks all good I pulled it off looks pretty mujch brand new, no build up or anything. When the RAC guy came out to tow me home he also said it was fine, he too couldn't work out the issue with this thing

[Alitis007]

Did you check if the fuel lock offs where getting power ?? 1 for petrol and 1 for gas

[hershal]

Did you check if the fuel lock offs where getting power ?? 1 for petrol and 1 for gas

to be honest I don't know what they are, probably a stupid answer to some but yeah I was gonna ask later if I didn't get it going with something else :)

[Alitis007]

One is on the fuel line going in to the fuel rail and one on the gas line before the converter. Theres 2 wires on each, one power and one earth. When you select a fuel on the toggle switch one gets power and the other obviously doesn't lol should only take 2 mins mate

[hershal]

cheers mate, I guess its some kind of relay looking thing hey?
just check for 12v?

[Alitis007]

Any power really, you can use just a test light but heres a few pics off what they generally look like
29441
29442
29443

[hershal]

cheers mate ill have a look again tomorrow, I think I seen them in the craziness that is the engine bay, hopefully I don't regret buying this Patrol in the end

[hershal]

does any one know where I can get a temporary tee ad gauge to check my fuel pressure? I don't want a permanent one just a temporary check, cheap one? Supercheap Repco? do those places sell them? or do I need to find a tee piece some place with barb connections?

[Parksy]

I bought one off eBay with a tee fitting already installed. You might get lucky if you check out the auto stores, just make sure the guage goes up to 40psi, because you can buy pressure guages for carbies, but they don't read as high.

[hershal]

i have a heap of gauges I can borrow from work, but they are all 1/4" NPT fittings, id like to find a barb tee with a female 1/4" NPT in top would be ideal, but I don't like my chances

[hershal]

Can some one confirm this is one of the lock off. For the gas? 29479
Still Havjng issues starting. Checked fuel today getting good flow from the fuel pump when I turn te key ( just put the end into an empty bottle) haven't found a gauge yet to check

[hershal]

I'm no mechanic. But I am thinking of replacing all leads dizzy and spark plugs. Also ignition coil. If that don't do the trick should I start looking at the injectors ?

[threedogs]

Every one with dual fuel should be using these "Ys" not "TEE" pieces, "TEES" dont allow optimum flow of water, and help with cavitation increasing freezing. You'll never have flow problems with "Y" pieces, Don't forget to bleed hose to convertor if higher than radiator, air will get trapped

You may find most problems with gas are electrical.
Looking at your convertor is that the gas tickle button on the side in the middle.
try turning key on /off a few times as each turn of key should squirt small amount of gas, in mixer

[Yendor]

I would start by checking the wiring and connector that goes to your LPG/Petrol change over switch in your dash, just incase you knocked/dislodged something when you fixed your odometer the other day.

I take it you are trying to start it on petrol?. With a voltmeter and the ignition on check for 12 volts in the White wire with a Green trace at one of the injectors.

[hershal]

I don't think I may have knocked it when I was fixing the odometer (which i Actually managed to do without an issue) the switch is located me t to the stereo. Anyways ill try having a look at it.

Three dogs. Where will these tee pieces be? From the liquid side or gas side if the gas.

I know I am completely put of gas and without towing it to a gas station can't really fill it up without starting it on fuel. Is there an easy way to find out if its actual switched to fuel. I have pulled the filter apart and turned te key and seen decent fuel flow. Does the flow hey stopped somewhere else? On the fuel rail maybe or something? I couldn't find these "lock offs " probably staring me straight in the face.

Hard enough trying to work out a petrol problem now adding gas. Makes it a little more challenging

[hershal]

I would start by checking the wiring and connector that goes to your LPG/Petrol change over switch in your dash, just incase you knocked/dislodged something when you fixed your odometer the other day.

I take it you are trying to start it on petrol?. With a voltmeter and the ignition on check for 12 volts in the White wire with a Green trace at one of the injectors.

White wire with a green trace? Like a white wire with a green line on it? :)

[hershal]

29507
Also is this pretty much the schematic of a gas system? Trying to trace it all to make sure it's all working

[Alitis007]

The lock offs are on each fuel line to stop the flow when that fuel is not being used. 1 is on the fuel line going into the rail and the other on the steel gas line going into the converter. If you follow them back you will be able to find them fairly easily

[hershal]

Sweet as. I am gonnà try tackle some of it this afternoon / weekend. I am probably just going to bite the bullet and once I get it running. Take it to a mechanic to have a good look over. I could spend months looking for the issue where they could probably find the simple problem straight away. Also would like the piece of mind that its not gonna die on me again.

Could even probably do some of the work myself. If they tell me what issues it has. Knowing is half the battle :)

[Alitis007]

Diagnosing is half the fun tho!! If your mechanic finds the fault they might charge you a diagnosis fee.

[hershal]

It is true. I just don't have the time right now. Working from sunrise to sunset. And I have shit light in my carport. Not really set up for much ( just moved in) however ill just keep playing around. You only learn by trying

[hershal]

Found the lock off for the gas. Still struggling to find the one for the fuel. I been looking over the gas system. Should this light be on constant? It's some sort of earth that runs to the gas lock off. What I am doing here is turning it from fuel to gas and the tank comes on and the light comes on and I get up to 12v on the lock off. Should it be a constant power or how do they work.
I have traced the fuel line all the way from underneath the car and to the fuel rail and across the fuel rail and down the return. No lck off. I assume it will be before the fuel rail but I cannot find it
2955629555

[hershal]

This is what I mean when I turn the Gas switch, It turns on at that little block that is earthed, Power Comes on for a few seconds then goes off. I am getting a voltage but it drops out. Should these lock offs stay powered when either Gas is selected (Ie When gas is on I should see power at the lock off constant)


https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62558109/Video%2024-05-13%205%2022%2050%20PM.mov

[Yendor]

Why are you worrying about the gas side? you have no gas in the tank to be able to start it.

Have you checked for voltage in the White wire with a Green trace at the injector with ignition on and switched to run on petrol?

The above photo that shows a relay hanging above the alternator where do those wires go to? do they tap into the White wire with a Green trace?

[hershal]

Tha relay does tap into the white wire with green trace. Plus one earth and a blue wire that I assume may go back to the switch on the dash. When I turn fuel on its got 12v on the white wire green trace. (After relay). Always 12v on other side of relay. When I turn to gas it switches to zero. Reason I was checking gas system is to check if once I switch to fuel I can see the gas turned off
Still no idea what's wrong.
I'd like to assume this relay acts as a lock off for the fuel. When gas is turned on

[hershal]

Just found this.
Could this be my real reason it won't start.
Corroded cap? 295972959829599

[hershal]

Guess ill check it tomorrow for a spark. Do not wanna fork out 90 bucks for new cap rotor if its not the issue. Could this actually cause the car to die while running though?

[hershal]

Ok guys
I need a new tactic

I have a spark. I did smash one of my leads but ill replace all new anyways.

It just won't tick over. Could it be clogged Injectors,
It was pretty much empty of fuel when I got it and I am
Assuming the previous owner just ran it on gas. Should I be pulling the Injectors out to clean them and see if this fixes it?

I have fuel I have spark I have power.

Any ideas would be great

[happygu]

Hershal ,

You say you have fuel flow, and spark... have you check this at the fuel supply to the fuel rail.....this will be under pump pressure, so have a bottle to poke the line into, and turn the key to the accessories position, and get ready to turn it off quick. Probably best to have two people to do this to make sure that fuel doesn't go everywhere.

If no fuel here, that will be a good reason why it isn't going....then trace the fuel line backwards till you find the lockout solenoid

Mic

[hershal]

Yeah i pulled the line directly off the fuel rail and put it into an empty coke bottle, Have got fuel pressure until there, I know this as I forgot to put the clamp back on and when I tried again the hose blew off and made a bit of a mess. Could the fuel pressure regulator also be stuffed too?
Just thinking out loud here got no idea hey I am getting quite annoyed :)

[Parksy]

No harm in pulling out the fuel injectors and cleaning them. They are very easy to R&I, just loosen the bolts holding the fuel rail down, there's only 2 on each side and also the bolt holding the regulator hose to the manifold and unplug the injectors as you pull them out. Might need to remove the throttle body for access, but the intake does not need to come off. There's heaps of simple do it yourself ways of cleaning the injectors at home, just search on YouTube for injector cleaning.

[hershal]

sweet as, i might get into that this afternoon, is there a way on checking to see if i am getting fuel through the injectors?

[Parksy]

You can remove the vacuum line from the fuel regulator and switch the car to on. Should hear the fuel pump buzzing away for about 5 seconds then it switches off. If u see fuel dribbling out of the vacuum hose your regulator is stuffed. Otherwise only way to tell if its working fine is to put a guage inline with the fuel filter and see what reading u get. Should be 40 psi. Mine used to read about 26psi, changed the fuel pump and I get 40 psi now. Made a world of difference to how the car started.

[hershal]

You can remove the vacuum line from the fuel regulator and switch the car to on. Should hear the fuel pump buzzing away for about 5 seconds then it switches off. If u see fuel dribbling out of the vacuum hose your regulator is stuffed. Otherwise only way to tell if its working fine is to put a guage inline with the fuel filter and see what reading u get. Should be 40 psi. Mine used to read about 26psi, changed the fuel pump and I get 40 psi now. Made a world of difference to how the car started.

yeah i got a gauge i can check that, i am definately getting good flow until the rail, i just wanna know if there will be fuel going through the injectors, so i can see if thats the issue or not?

[Parksy]

sweet as, i might get into that this afternoon, is there a way on checking to see if i am getting fuel through the injectors?

If you check out the YouTube videos it will be obvious that you're getting flow through the injectors. If it turns out that they were infact blocked, id recommend that you put some premium through the system as well as get some upper cylinder cleaner from Subaru and run that through the intake.
If you have some carb cleaner, run that through the fuel rail intake line, and hopefully you will get flow coming out of the injector ports. The injector has a little filter that sits in the top. These filters are a last line of defence, but I've seen them completely blocked before. I'll see if I have a picture of my injectors to show you...

[hershal]

cheers sweet as ill have a look and see what i can get up to this afternoon :)
lets hope I can determine the issue.
The little bit of corrosion i have on the dizzy cap wouldnt be casuing all these issues would it? I am getting a spark from the leads but not as bright as the one from the coil itself

[Parksy]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v92/Pakas/3AFF1AE8-3C12-4710-8E58-08606CDD482B-7526-0000044F823F4DCB.jpg
Here's the top of one of the injectors. This one isn't blocked, but it's where the little filter sits. They can fill with crap easily if the system isn't maintained.
Just use a spark plug and test every single lead running to each individual cylinder by plugging the spark plug onto the lead and holding the spark plug onto a good earth. Better if it can just sit there without holding to avoid a shock. Have someone crank the engine and there should be a spark on every lead. Don't worry too much about the spark coming directly out of the coil, it's the spark at each cylinder that matters. If that's there, you're sweet and don't need to worry about ignition. I'll see if I can find some videos to help u clean and test the injectors.

[Parksy]

http://youtu.be/7aT4S1lIBAY
Home injector cleaning
http://youtu.be/1Vl9jFWTWag
Testing injector looms for a pulse. Failing this, u can use a stethoscope to listen to each injector while the engine is being cranked. Will make a click....click....click sound. Autobarn sell stethoscopes.

[hershal]

i got spark at each lead (besides one, as i broke the end off when i was trying to get it off the spark plug, ill have to replace all the leads anyways now as I need one, might as well do all), just used a screwdriver to the engine bay and watched for spark as i cranked it. Changed all spark plugs also (besides number 3, still trying to get to it, might be easier with the fuel rail off anyways)

cheers for the help, ill have a go at the fuel injectors, may need a little trip to jaycar to make me up a nice switch

[hershal]

Pulled the injectors out today. What a bitch. Probably pull the intake manifold off to put back on. Noticed some rubber in one of them. So ill be cleaning them
Out in the next few days.

Noticed however the MAF when I removed the filter and everything. Would this cause a big issue ? 2983229833

[Parksy]

Looks buggered to me. Will need a new maf sensor. They're not cheap either. Looking at $400-$500.

[hershal]

Yeah I already looked that up. But it shouldn't stop the car starting though should it?

[happygu]

Could do if it is getting no signal

[hershal]

Can it be bypassed of something. To check if its the issue. I know I want to change it. But id like to fix the issue of not starting

[Parksy]

If I get a chance tomorrow I'll unplug mine and see if I can still start it.

[hershal]

If I get a chance tomorrow I'll unplug mine and see if I can still start it.

I Heard it goes into a limp kind of mode and only allows minimal RPM

[Parksy]

Thanks for reminding me hershal, I completely forgot to check. Will do tomorrow.

[Parksy]

Pulled the maf cable off. Started fine but ran like a bucket of sh!t. Don't think it's your starting issue, though could probably still do replacing looking at your last pic...

[threedogs]

Have you tried cleaning the MAF , SCA and Jaycar sell Maf cleaner. You have spark ,
have you checked if you have fuel, may be a blocked fuel filter,

[hershal]

Have you tried cleaning the MAF , SCA and Jaycar sell Maf cleaner. You have spark ,
have you checked if you have fuel, may be a blocked fuel filter,

Well I got progress today. She Finally Started. but now I have a new Issue

I Managed to Clean My Injectors out today they didnt seem all that dirty, but now I know they are clean.

Cleaned the MAF, Throttle Body, etc.
Replaced all Spark Plugs, and Leads. Havent done the Dizzy Cap or rotor yet, have ordered them waiting to pick them up.

Now putting the Fuel Rail and Injectors back on took me close to a good 3 Hours. Couldnt get the bolt back in next to the firewall. Couldnt line up the injectors. the rail the bolts. Was quite a massivce job on your own, not to mention you have to jump on top of the engine to get to anything.

Problem is i think i stripped the bolt, and now the rail doesnt bottom out so fuel is leaking out of the injectors. I am hoping I havent stripped the block and only the bolt.
Engines running rough, and fuel is flowing out of the injectors. Hopefully this is the only issue left.

[hershal]

So I tried to tighten this bolt and it seems to be just spinning around and around. Does anyone know what pitch these bolts are that hold the fuel rail in and size? I want to try a new bolt before i have to go and tap a new thread
cheers

[anasaz09]

Happens alot to me, just unplug the negative end from the battery and reconnect it again.

hope it works for you

[hershal]

I don't think I destroyed an o ring. I was pretty careful. I had a look at the fuel rail and I can jiggle it around and you can see that they are not sitting in there enough. Even by just turning the key to on and letting fuel go to the rail. It starts pissing out

[hershal]

So guys found out today that the Bolt that holts the Fuel Rail in is a M8 x 1.25 (course) thread. My question is, if the actual hole is stripped on the head then what would my options be? Could I retap as
a M8 thread, or should I try to change it to a UNC thread a little bigger and retap the thread to a differnet pitch. Other issue is the location, its not an easy place to get to considering that everything is in the way, more than likely going to have to take the inlet manifold off to get to it. This would also make it alot easier to put the fuel rail back in again and not struggling.

your thoughts would be greatly appreciated
cheers in advance

[hershal]

Just wanted to say a big thanks to everyone that helped me out with this issue. Finally after a month or there abouts mucking around its started. And started pretty good too. Although I can't pin point down to the exact issue. I so appreciate all the input that every one had contributed to get me going again. I think it's time now it's running to take t to a proper mechanic. He could then tell me exactly what issues I have. I learnt quite alot while pulling this engine to bits and the gas system. So I hope in the future I can relay this information to fellow patrollers.
Again thanks again
Jase