QLD Hoon Laws - New Changes

[oncedisturbed]

Not sure if this has been posted before but feel free to meld threads or put in relvant thread.

Stumbled across this on another forum which has QLD changing it's Laws regarding Hoons (no dramas in getting rid of Hoons) but it also targets effectively any "modded" vehicle.

No warnings, instant penalties - travelling from interstate will be the biggest issue depending on how it will be implemented as this new law will fly in the face of any VSB's around the country.

Have a gander at the link, admittedly my jaw dropped when I read this.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/car-enthusiasts-fear-being-caught-in-hoon-net-20130414-2html.html

[Ben-e-boy]

That is fecked. Obviously all the murderers and rapist and thieves have been caught

[BigRAWesty]

As she wrote they missed the chance to harmonise to rules, but didn't..
Gruberment at there best imo..

Kallen Westbrook
Owner of
Westy's Accessories (http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?15134-Westy-s-Accessories.-A-small-back-yard-builder.)

[oncedisturbed]

Yup, I fell over backwards. Even if you have a modded vehicle that is certified with mod plate, all appropriate paperwork and are travelling normally, not drawing attention to yourself - WHALLOP - can be bye bye truck, fine etc

[threedogs]

I would hope common sense prevails, as for 4x4 Hooning in Vic., Dont let me catch you doing Donuts etc in the forrest I will give your rego details.
I would hope we are better than that though, We as 4x4ers need to keep our noses clean there are enough track closures now, we dont need anymore.
In Vic our state 4x4 body is very strong, I can get some clarification on these "laws" if you like. maybe they would be better off getting some National body in place
but again ego might get in the way. Can't even get a national accreditated driving course thats recognised by all states, could be wrong, on that, If anyone was at the Bacchus Marsh
rally a few years ago you would know how we react ,5000 4x4 in a small country town ,Pretty to see, and that was just for trying to close the Otways, which is Mudrunners area

[megatexture]

and the politicians and police wonder why they are hated

[Drew]

I would hope common sense prevails, as for 4x4 Hooning in Vic., Dont let me catch you doing Donuts etc in the forrest I will give your rego details....


He's very protective over his donut turf ;) :p :)

[oncedisturbed]

Can't even get a national accreditated driving course thats recognised by all states, could be wrong, on that

There are Nationally accredited 4wd courses available under the VETS framework (competency based module training) and if an assessor refues to accept someone who is accreditated under the training framework actually commits an offence.

All the latest VSB's were supposed to bring States into a similar framework so that there was more clarity and consistency across the Country and QLD followed suit to a degree by lifting some of their restrictions, me be thinking it was done with an alterior motive being these new laws - can smell the word "entrapment" floating around somewhere.

TD, if you are able to gain clarification on them, it would more than likely be of benefit to QLD members and those touring through the state

[threedogs]

mmmmmmmmmmmmmm Donuts Doh
Bit tuff if you have taken all the right steps, dotted all the i's and crossed the Tees at a price then go interstate only to be told
you're pinged, stinks big times. Feel for anyone who has had 4x4 taken,
is there any recourse or is it coppers word is final.

[oncedisturbed]

Here is the Govt Committee link on this;

http://www.parliament.qld.gov.au/documents/committees/LACSC/2012/PPRMVI/rpt-024-12Mar2013.pdf

Haven't had a chance to read it yet but did find this;


Type 1 Offence
Type 1 offences are defined in section 69A(1) of the Police Powers and Responsibilities Act 2000 to include those motor vehicle offences more typically considered “hooning” offences committed in circumstances involving a speed trial, race or burn out involving:
• the dangerous operation of a vehicle;
• careless driving;
• participation in speed trials or races; or
• starting or driving a vehicle making unnecessary noise or smoke.
Type 2 Offence
Type 2 offences are defined in section 69A(2) of the Police Powers and Responsibilities Act 2000 as any of the following:
• driving an uninsured or unregistered vehicle;
• certain unlicensed or disqualified driving;
• driving with a blood alcohol concentration above 0.15%, or failing to provide a specimen of breath etc. and driving under related suspensions; or
• driving an illegally modified vehicle.

[threedogs]

Give me a day or 2 I'll do my thang

[NissanGQ4.2]

All the latest VSB's were supposed to bring States into a similar framework so that there was more clarity and consistency across the Country

Correct, but it never happened. And it should not be similar it should be the exact same no matter what state.

[cruise]

as a p plater myself, this is going to suck i have already been pulled over to be given the once over and i haven't even had the patrol for a month

[NP99]

as a p plater myself, this is going to suck i have already been pulled over to be given the once over and i haven't even had the patrol for a month

Which in its self forces good people to break laws, i.e. removing P plates so as not to draw attention

[Clunk]

Time to start riding a bicycle me thinks but saying that they'll probably be checking those for "illegal" mods too

Don't slap it, tap it!!!!

[gaddy]

Hey cruise where you live they are everywhere at present , and giveing everyone the once over , better to keep a low profile and by the book around wynumn , especially after the wags yacht race on a wednesday arvo rbt on the esplanade nearly every week , and they will check your car if it looks even slightly sus , been checked twice in the last 2 weeks and fined once for no transome tie downs , on the boat

Gaddy

[lhurley]

Ive seen a heap of rbts and radars around the same area. There was an rbt and 2 radars within 2kms of my house yesterday. Makes me nervous driving around, i know my car is legal, but that doesnt mean im after extra attention because it stands out.

[NP99]

Ive seen a heap of rbts and radars around the same area. There was an rbt and 2 radars within 2kms of my house yesterday. Makes me nervous driving around, i know my car is legal, but that doesnt mean im after extra attention because it stands out.

Watch those custom dents mate :)

[cruise]

mate i am in manly but got done at capalaba i want to remove the rear swaybar when i get my lift but am paranoid they will screw me over was told it is illegal on another note do you sail??


Hey cruise where you live they are everywhere at present , and giveing everyone the once over , better to keep a low profile and by the book around wynumn , especially after the wags yacht race on a wednesday arvo rbt on the esplanade nearly every week , and they will check your car if it looks even slightly sus , been checked twice in the last 2 weeks and fined once for no transome tie downs , on the boat

Gaddy

[gaddy]

No mate just a active power boatie , I try and get out once a week , I launch at the trailer boat club , and my job also takes me through the area each week

Steve

[cruise]

oh ok im an active sailboater haha dont like powerboats =) im a member at RQYS


No mate just a active power boatie , I try and get out once a week , I launch at the trailer boat club , and my job also takes me through the area each week

Steve

[04OFF]

Here is the Govt Committee link on this;

http://www.parliament.qld.gov.au/documents/committees/LACSC/2012/PPRMVI/rpt-024-12Mar2013.pdf

Haven't had a chance to read it yet but did find this;

Type 1 OffenceType 1 offences are defined in section 69A(1) of the Police Powers and Responsibilities Act 2000 to include those motor vehicle offences more typically considered “hooning” offences committed in circumstances involving a speed trial, race or burn out involving:
• the dangerous operation of a vehicle;
• careless driving;
• participation in speed trials or races; or
• starting or driving a vehicle making unnecessary noise or smoke

Type 2 offences are defined in section 69A(2) of the Police Powers and Responsibilities Act 2000 as any of the following:
• driving an uninsured or unregistered vehicle;
• certain unlicensed or disqualified driving;
• driving with a blood alcohol concentration above 0.15%, or failing to provide a specimen of breath etc. and driving under related suspensions; or
• driving an illegally modified vehicle.







WTF, So......starting or driving a vehicle making unnecessary noise or smoke, is a WORSE offence than high range drink driving ?

(You boys with older Diesels better just crawl off the lights !)


And driving a illegally modified vehicle (this could be as little as not having mudflaps) is just as bad as drink driving ?


Drive interstate or around Aus, and even though your car is 100% legal in your own state, you may still be breaking the law once you cross a boarder



Why stop here, why not just pass a law that if a cop decides he doesn't like you, he just shoots you with his gun, and consfiscates all your stuff................... yeh, that will fix those hoons for spinning their tyres, thats what "real criminals" like that deserve !

[Brendan56]

Sure it covers stuff like smokey exhausts and short mudflaps. But I can guarantee you that's not what the vast majority of police use the legislation for.

Tappin trolls
Brendan

[MEGOMONSTER]

Type 1 OffenceType 1 offences are defined in section 69A(1) of the Police Powers and Responsibilities Act 2000 to include those motor vehicle offences more typically considered “hooning” offences committed in circumstances involving a speed trial, race or burn out involving:
• the dangerous operation of a vehicle;
• careless driving;
• participation in speed trials or races; or
• starting or driving a vehicle making unnecessary noise or smoke

Type 2 offences are defined in section 69A(2) of the Police Powers and Responsibilities Act 2000 as any of the following:
• driving an uninsured or unregistered vehicle;
• certain unlicensed or disqualified driving;
• driving with a blood alcohol concentration above 0.15%, or failing to provide a specimen of breath etc. and driving under related suspensions; or
• driving an illegally modified vehicle.







WTF, So......starting or driving a vehicle making unnecessary noise or smoke, is a WORSE offence than high range drink driving ?

(You boys with older Diesels better just crawl off the lights !)


And driving a illegally modified vehicle (this could be as little as not having mudflaps) is just as bad as drink driving ?


Drive interstate or around Aus, and even though your car is 100% legal in your own state, you may still be breaking the law once you cross a boarder



Why stop here, why not just pass a law that if a cop decides he doesn't like you, he just shoots you with his gun, and consfiscates all your stuff................... yeh, that will fix those hoons for spinning their tyres, thats what "real criminals" like that deserve !

All these laws are for those considered HOON DRIVING.
So " starting or driving a vehicle making unnecessary noise or smoke" is someone doing a burnout.

These laws have been put in place to be severe to HOON drivers.

[NP99]

All these laws are for those considered HOON DRIVING.
So " starting or driving a vehicle making unnecessary noise or smoke" is someone doing a burnout.

These laws have been put in place to be severe to HOON drivers.

Not so simple.....the law is grey not black and white and is open to interpretation on the spot by each cop. The laws generally are flawed, thats why we have an appeal process!

[Dominator]

Not so simple.....the law is grey not black and white and is open to interpretation on the spot by each cop. The laws generally are flawed, thats why we have an appeal process!

That's right. Just because the law is intended for tyre smoke, does not mean a cop can't interpret is as diesel smoke.

[MEGOMONSTER]

We driving offences, vehicle offences and then HOON offences, three different laws. How can you justify in court a smokey vehicle to be HOONing.
Come on guys, even the most stupidest copper knows better.
HOONing is declared as reckless and/or dangerous driving.

[Dominator]

We driving offences, vehicle offences and then HOON offences, three different laws. How can you justify in court a smokey vehicle to be HOONing.
Come on guys, even the most stupidest copper knows better.
HOONing is declared as reckless and/or dangerous driving.

But that's the whole point with how stupid this law is! This is not decided in the court if law. The cop decides on the spot, and then impounds your car. Then you have to go to court over it. It makes the police judge and jury which is bullchit! It has become guilty until proven innocent.

[lhurley]

If the law was black and white i would have no problem. But because its up to the discretion of the officer at the time, whats to say they cant ping you for something thats fine cause they "think" its not?

We are becoming a nanny state. Im not happy about it. If im getting a fine i want it to be the law, not a cops idea of the law.

[NP99]

We driving offences, vehicle offences and then HOON offences, three different laws. How can you justify in court a smokey vehicle to be HOONing.
Come on guys, even the most stupidest copper knows better.
HOONing is declared as reckless and/or dangerous driving.

I know that copper, I worked with him a few years back!!!

[MEGOMONSTER]

OK, I give in you Qlders better be careful, cos you can't even wear hoodies at night, unbelievable.

[04OFF]

Mega, you are most likley thinking (and i did too at first), oh this is the usual forum speak, it can't be so bad, some guys are just over reacting to some new law they dont like or understand, it wont effect me as i am law obiding, and respect Police etc....... well unfortunatly these guys are 100% right !


(writing in RED are quotes from original documents, link below)


Below is a prime example of breaking the law, yes, the punishment is to Automatically,loose your car for 90 days (tell me who on here, who has not done this before ?)

• driving a motor vehicle in a way that causes a sustained loss of traction of one or more of the drive wheels with a wet or gravelled road surface, regardless of whether or not the tyres smoke because of the loss of traction”
The reason for this amendment appears to be three-fold:
(a) to cover those instances where there is a loss of a vehicle’s traction and no smoke is produced such as when a vehicle is driven on a wet or gravel road


Yes, you are reading it right, a "Burnout" now needs NO smoke to be a burnout ! (WTF ?), so acording to this law, your mum could be driving her car on a beach and could be seen doing illeagal burnouts if she spins the wheels, "one person" can decide, she now gets her car confiscated for 90 days for this infringement , with no court judgement involved.


Yes sure, most resonable people would interpret this law (although its quite vague) ,as im sure it is ment to be, that is, to catch extreemly very dangerous criminals who do burnouts, and previously its all overseen as we had some sort of court involvement ,this assured us that the law is/was used for the correct and just reasons, now take away the courts, and what protection do we have that we will actually be treated fair under our own legal system ?






The Bar Association of Queensland raised several concerns about these aspects of the Bill in its submission:

"the police may proceed to actual impoundment and forfeiture without any supervision by a court"

"... The Society is particularly alarmed that forfeiture does not require consideration by a court before a vehicle can be forfeited."



I could go on with many examples, but here,

Read through these yourself.............



https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/30992402/Legal%20stuff/Committee%20-Police_Powers_and_Responsibilities_Motor_Vehicle_I mpoundment_and_Other_Legislation_Amendment_Bill_20 12.pdf


https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/30992402/Legal%20stuff/QLS%20-%202711_Police_Powers_and_Responsibilities_Motor_V ehicle_Impoundment_and_Other_Legislation_Amendment _Bill_2012.pdf






This is not a bag at Police, most of them are such great people and do a difficult awsome job, this is more about un-fair and un-clear laws, laws that are unjust, punishments that do not fit the crime, plus leave the door wide open for misinterpritation and misuse like never before !

Like i said, what comes next, they can just shoot you on the spot ?

[NP99]

Most front wheel drives, the type nanna drives can spin on a hill start in the wet. Would a cop book her? It's at their discretion, if the son is a known trouble maker to the cops etc etc...... In all probability Nanna is safe :)

[04OFF]

If you read the links ,they talk about "utes" in the wet on hills doing the same.


I have driven many types of utes from work, the ones with alloy trays when unloaded are so light in the rear, it is sometimes almost impossible to do a hillstart in the wet without spinning a wheel.



Imagine a young driver with little experience driving the work ute, spins the wheels on a wet hill as he is not used to the car, gets busted for doing a burnout (type 1 , automatic impoundment), because he is young, its easy assume he is a Hoon, hes not reckless, nor dangerous, yet can be punished worse than if he was driving drunk as a skunk.

So apart from a nice fine im sure, the ute is confiscated for 90 days, then his work is now without a ute (this would cripple some small buisness), the young kid also loses his job and so on, how is that fair ?



Hed be better of saying, oh nah, its OK officer, "im just really really drunk" (type 2, no impoundment, its a lesser offence !) :drunk:

[lhurley]

In the first link 04OFF posted it says that Persons described as “hoons” are most likely to be young males under the age of 25 years.(quote)
Ok i get that its a stereotype for a reason, but im not ok with being type cast as a hoon purely because i am a male under 25. That has to be discrimination, right?

I honestly would of thought that high range drink driving, is way worse then doing a burnout. Thats just ridiculous.

[NP99]

Maybe there is less revenue in DUI these days?

[Dominator]

Maybe there is less revenue in DUI these days?

Your probably right. DUI offenses have been declining, perhaps they are seeking other means if revenue.

[04OFF]

I honestly would of thought that high range drink driving, is way worse then doing a burnout. Thats just ridiculous.

It "is" ridiculous, i could not believe it myself, it suggests the new law makers have little concern about real public saftey or reducing our road deaths at all !




Maybe there is less revenue in DUI these days?

Perhaps the law makers/enforcers/people with power and money, are all "drinkers" NP ? :)

I can only imagine there must be some sort of hidden agenda/motive, when such small automotive crime can be punished so harsh, and yet serious drink driving is always a lessor offence ? (it defies logic)

[macca86]

The old burn out charge use to be " wilfully operating a vehicle making unnecessary noise and or smoke" I copped a few in my hoon days male under 25 was 3 points off the licence $250 fine back then and the old hoon laws were 24 hr loss of car then 48 hrs ten a week then crushed I think. I talked my way out of the impoundment twice so was lucky. Then I got caught driving unlicensed due to unpaid fine on sper I didn't know about had to go to court got a 9 month suspension $1000 fine and a 50 day suspended jail sentence.
I understand that hooning is dangerous but these new was take it too far time and money would e better spent on police patrols I go for weeks on the road without seeing police then they come out for a coupe of days would most people settle down if they knew cops were on the road more frequently I think so.

[lhurley]

I understand that hooning is dangerous but these new was take it too far time and money would e better spent on police patrols I go for weeks on the road without seeing police then they come out for a coupe of days would most people settle down if they knew cops were on the road more frequently I think so.

Its all about police presence, thats why im against the police using sneaky tactics to catch you breaking the law. Whether its speeding or doing a burnout, a radar or "traffic camera" isnt going to stop anything on that day, on that time. It takes weeks to get the ticket. Put a patrol car on the road, catch the idiots in the act, they get a fine on the spot. If someone wants to speed or do a burnout but sees a police car, they, usually/hopefully, slow down or stop. They rethink their actions. The way i see it, without physical police presence on the roads, im talking patrol cars driving around, there isnt going to be any difference.