Help me build my tourer?

[billy bleed]

I am now going to start building up my tourer for week trips before I quit life and start traveling and working with indigenous communities around australia.. I know I have to start somewhere but am so confused with first up items, and the right brands etc.. so here is a small list of a few things.. can anyone help or advise me with some depth so i get this right first time??

I have most of my camping gear from hiking days.. so need items for the 4x4..

1.
Taking out the old nav / stereo dash - what should I replace it with? Not sure if I should buy a head unit, uhf, and navigation all as separate units or stay with one unit for stereo and nav?

2.
Fridge size for 1 - 2 people? Engel, Ironman, Weaco? Thinking a 32 or 40ltr..

3.
Gordiegear Roof top tent or Featherlite?

4.
Thinking about this build for my storage..
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/230944898754?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649#ht_664wt_1217

5.
Which Dual battery system?

6.
Which air compressor?

7.
Will I need an invertor etc to setup the fridge and compressor in the back of the car?

What else should I be looking at?!?.. Its a bloody mine field out there and every brand reckons its got the best product..

Any thoughts please on an order of priority and brands to stand by?

cheers...

[BigRAWesty]

How fats the wallet? You need a rough range as something's can't be cheaper on.


Kallen Westbrook
Owner of
Westy's Accessories (http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?15134-Westy-s-Accessories.-A-small-back-yard-builder.)

[billy bleed]

i have a small budget to start with.. around 4k.. is that going to be enough to get started?

[threedogs]

Will you be living out of your Patrol??
Do your suspension Last after fitting all accessories
Fridge wise what size you looking at 40lt, 60,lt or 80lt with Dual zone
You might be better off one question at a time as you'll only confuse yourself and others.
ONE what is primary objective of your Patrol ???

[billy bleed]

Hey 3Dogs - Primary Objective is to use my patrol as a home and transport so that I can work with indigenous communities. I'm a Social Worker by trade and want to travel and work..

[threedogs]

So you'll be sleeping in /on Patrol and preparing meals etc.

[billy bleed]

yup - thus the rooftop tent as my number one option - cooking out of and eating take away..

[threedogs]

You'll also need an awning with the side attachments so you can change standing up, Where In Melb Are you?? got an idea

[billy bleed]

I'm located in Footscray - WEST IS BEST!

Scouting through eBay as there seems to be a few good deals..

[Ben-e-boy]

Billy I agree with 3 dogs when he says do your suspension last. But, you do need to factor this in the budget first, along with a appropriate set of tyres, there is the best part of half your budget gone.

You already have a tent, should the roof top tent be high priority? Duel batteries, fridge and storage, I would put higher on the list as although it would be a more basic standard of living it is still functional and can be dealt with until the budget is more permitting

I do like your do it once do it right attitude. great to see.

Cheers
Benny

[billy bleed]

when i purchased this patrol it had brand new ironman foam suspension.. that should be ok yeah?

still confused as to brands, type etc products i should be spending my cash on though..

[BigRAWesty]

For your big ticket items like the fridge, don't go eBay. And shop around. We scored our cf50 weaco for $950 with insulated cover brand new.. weaco have just released a new line, the cfx so the old line line is being reduced..your suspension sounds ok, but once you load it up you'll need at least new springs to take the extra weight, or a new setup if doing a lift..

Kallen Westbrook
Owner of
Westy's Accessories (http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?15134-Westy-s-Accessories.-A-small-back-yard-builder.)

[billy bleed]

i got a two inch lift already - pretty difficult over the net trying to figure stuff out..i'm gonna go down western 4x4 tomorrow and have a look at some items in the flesh..

might just start with storage and fridge first off + stereo and hemi navigation system - Then from there work my way up..

[threedogs]

Looking at pic are you down Ascotvale /nth melb way
Tyre wise you can't go past 285 Mickey Thompson 4 rib AT.
Seriously PM me to meet could save $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Kallen did post before pic but lift looks fine maybe up the spring rating in the rear,
or fit air bags,

[lhurley]

If it was my money i would probably be going fridge and dual batteries first, as i have a tent and could make do for the time being.

1. Does it lack any features you want?? Ipod, mp3 etc?? Your nav should be up to date at least, whether thats buying a new unit or just maps for your current is your call.

2.Fridge, Engle or Weaco. Engel if your budget permits but a weaco is still great. Size depends on how long you need to live out of it and whether you want a fridge only or a dual zone (fridge/ freezer).

3. Same a what bene said, you have the camping gears, should a roof top be first priority?

4. You can find some pretty good deals on draws if you look around. Be wary of the weight and what you want to keep in it. A custom jobbie might be the answer.

5. Dual batteries, i would say piranha, mines great. And get a deep cycle battery. A new fridge should last a few days on a decent battery.

6. Arb twin motor if your pockets are deep. But really anything that will get the job done will suffice for now, mine a super cheap thing and it works great for me.

7. Inverters are built into fridges. Compressors run off 12v. Unless you want to charge laptops etc shouldnt really need it.


Fuel and water storage, self recovery, and lift/ wheels for starters. Your suspension might be near new but there are a million different variants that are used for all different setups, work out what you want permanent in yours then look into suspension.

Your 2" should be ok, depends on how its set up, ie soft or hard. I would be looking into some more aggressive tires, not necessarily muddies but not highway slicks

[billy bleed]

Looking at pic are you down Ascotvale /nth melb way

close.. footscray.. the only place to be!

[billy bleed]

If it was my money i would probably be going fridge and dual batteries first, as i have a tent and could make do for the time being.

1. Does it lack any features you want?? Ipod, mp3 etc?? Your nav should be up to date at least, whether thats buying a new unit or just maps for your current is your call.

2.Fridge, Engle or Weaco. Engel if your budget permits but a weaco is still great. Size depends on how long you need to live out of it and whether you want a fridge only or a dual zone (fridge/ freezer).

3. Same a what bene said, you have the camping gears, should a roof top be first priority?

4. You can find some pretty good deals on draws if you look around. Be wary of the weight and what you want to keep in it. A custom jobbie might be the answer.

5. Dual batteries, i would say piranha, mines great. And get a deep cycle battery. A new fridge should last a few days on a decent battery.

6. Arb twin motor if your pockets are deep. But really anything that will get the job done will suffice for now, mine a super cheap thing and it works great for me.

7. Inverters are built into fridges. Compressors run off 12v. Unless you want to charge laptops etc shouldnt really need it.


Fuel and water storage, self recovery, and lift/ wheels for starters. Your suspension might be near new but there are a million different variants that are used for all different setups, work out what you want permanent in yours then look into suspension.

Your 2" should be ok, depends on how its set up, ie soft or hard. I would be looking into some more aggressive tires, not necessarily muddies but not highway slicks

food for thought thanks..

im hoping to be out of town a week at a time and then a town visit. my current stereo nav is shite and always claps out so i think i nice fresh head unit and nav system is the go - stereo must allow iPod is all I ask.. aint fussed about dvd etc as i'll use my laptop for entertainment so that means i'll be needing a decent inverter.

um not really thought about dual zone - i was just thinking a fridge to be honest - I don't really eat a lot meat products.

not going to be able to afford a long range tank at the moment so was going to stick with two 20ltr jerry cans and was looking into those 50ltr thin poly carb water tanks to have between a cargo barrier and storage.

[threedogs]

Hold on Billy just remember A mate selling rooftop tent great brand used twice good price too. SHeeeesh
Is your Patrol petrol or Diesel ????

[lhurley]

food for thought thanks..

im hoping to be out of town a week at a time and then a town visit. my current stereo nav is shite and always claps out so i think i nice fresh head unit and nav system is the go - stereo must allow iPod is all I ask.. aint fussed about dvd etc as i'll use my laptop for entertainment so that means i'll be needing a decent inverter.

um not really thought about dual zone - i was just thinking a fridge to be honest - I don't really eat a lot meat products.

not going to be able to afford a long range tank at the moment so was going to stick with two 20ltr jerry cans and was looking into those 50ltr thin poly carb water tanks to have between a cargo barrier and storage.

Not a problem mate. New stereo + GPS + inverter, shouldnt be much more then say $600, and it can be done way cheaper. Inverters arent very expensive.

I would be going and doing you research on fridges and good deep cycle batteries. Dont forget that you will also need to be self sufficient recovery wise. Budget for a winch and decent tires, worse comes to worse you have a car that will get you from a to be and you have to rough it a bit.

[billy bleed]

Hold on Billy just remember A mate selling rooftop tent great brand used twice good price too. SHeeeesh
Is your Patrol petrol or Diesel ????

i wish it was a diesel - i could not afford such so went petrol - looking back now i would have been better waiting around for a GQ diesel - just got my fingers crossed that she don't turn into a money pit.. interested in hearing about the roof top!

[Cuppa]

Living out of a vehicle full time is *Very* different to holidays or weekends.

As has been said, you really need to decide *how* you want to live & travel. If traveling mainly for short periods & staying put in one place for months at a time, your setup will be quite different to one for regularly moving on.

Eg. If the former your existing tent may suffice if it's tall enough to stand up in. If the latter a rooftop tent would be preferable as a permanently made up bed makes a huge difference.

An awning is an essential. You will be in many places where it is the only shade you'll have.

Your fridge & compressor will be 12 volt, so an inverter will not be necessary.

IMHO dual battery systems are easy to set up yourself. Buying a ready made dual battery system just costs more.

Cuppa

[billy bleed]

Living out of a vehicle full time is *Very* different to holidays or weekends.

As has been said, you really need to decide *how* you want to live & travel. If traveling mainly for short periods & staying put in one place for months at a time, your setup will be quite different to one for regularly moving on.

Eg. If the former your existing tent may suffice if it's tall enough to stand up in. If the latter a rooftop tent would be preferable as a permanently made up bed makes a huge difference.

An awning is an essential. You will be in many places where it is the only shade you'll have.

Your fridge & compressor will be 12 volt, so an inverter will not be necessary.

IMHO dual battery systems are easy to set up yourself. Buying a ready made dual battery system just costs more.

Cuppa

my hiking gear is super light weight - tent weighs in just under a kilo and my mat and bag just under .8 kilo so would not be ideal for roughing it for long periods and personally would take longer to setup - would much rather 5mins and a ready made bed..

not mechanically or electrically minded so am looking at ready made items - i know the cost is 100% more but i can't fart around trying to sort it all.. last time i changed a light globe i got a shock.. yup.. put my finger on the prongs as i tried to wipe to dirt off.. not the brightest spark!

[BigRAWesty]

my hiking gear is super light weight - tent weighs in just under a kilo and my mat and bag just under .8 kilo so would not be ideal for roughing it for long periods and personally would take longer to setup - would much rather 5mins and a ready made bed..

not mechanically or electrically minded so am looking at ready made items - i know the cost is 100% more but i can't fart around trying to sort it all.. last time i changed a light globe i got a shock.. yup.. put my finger on the prongs as i tried to wipe to dirt off.. not the brightest spark!

Try 240v, might get a brighter spark... :p

All I can say is do some reading. Try some thing's while your home. You will need to be able to do basic stuff out bush, or you'll be calling SOS weekly...

Don't be afraid to try things, were here to help with advice, and if worse comes to worse, I'm sure there's a member close who'll help out..

Is a swag and awning an option?

Kallen Westbrook
Owner of
Westy's Accessories (http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?15134-Westy-s-Accessories.-A-small-back-yard-builder.)

[Cuppa]

Ok, so it sounds like different accommodation is the go. Together with a proprietary dual battery system.
It also sounds like you will need another method of charging your second battery unless you are going to drive for several hours every day just to put back into the batteries what you have taken out of them. This will mean either plugging into mains power, solar, or a generator. If relying on 240v (mains or generator) you would need a good battery charger.

For the vehicle charging ( dual battery) you should consider a system which includes a dc to dc charger rather than just a cheaper voltage sensitive relay. The difference is that the dc to dc charger will bring your auxiliary battery up to close to 100% full, whereas a VSR (ie. standard alternator charging with starter battery protection against over discharging) will only charge your aux battery to 70% or 80%. A big difference in what you would have available to power your fridge etc. Of course neither will be sufficient unless you drive for long enough.





aint fussed about dvd etc as i'll use my laptop for entertainment so that means i'll be needing a decent inverter.



Plenty of laptops can be run with a 12v adaptor, so an inverter just for this purpose may not be necessary.

Also, regarding your Jerry cans full of petrol. Carrying them inside the vehicle is a real no no, as is carrying them on rear bumper bar racks, which leaves carrying them on the roof, where their weight is an issue, & space may be at a premium if you have a rooftop tent. Although expensive a long range tank may be the best (& possibly only option unless you go with a ground based tent). Certainly the safest.

I don't wish to be the bearer of bad tidings, but basically if you are wanting to set up for remote travel & the ability to live in the vehicle full time, spending a week at a time camped, with refrigeration, then it is not going to be cheap to set up. Sure you can do it all as cheaply as possible, but it still won't be cheap. You do have to decide upon priorities. If an electric fridge is of the highest priority (after safety of course) then you need to accept that the associated costs to set it up & keep it running can be considerably more than just the cost of the fridge & a dual battery setup. Expecting to run a fridge off an auxiliary battery charged only by the vehicle that is not being driven much for a week at a time just would not be realistic.

If it were possible to compromise with just an ice box, rather than an electric fridge (not a compromise I would be happy with I must admit) then a basic dual battery system only would likely meet your other power needs and costs, weight & usage of space would be kept way lower.

Cuppa

[Gerry]

Roof top tents are a pain to use

[threedogs]

Any lighting you depend on needs to be led. plenty of ready made options around.
this will greatly improve your battery life, As for where your heading Solar is definitely to go
80 watt panel will be heaps as you'll have heaps of daylight every day and cant see you using
all 12v amps each day.
X 2 with Kallen do some reading and see what others use, Every item I take should have two or three purposes
eg; A plastic storage tub can be used as a wash tub for dishes.
I know this is alot to take in all at once so you might be better asking about items one by one.
The main thing is you want to be able to travel as light as possible. better for Patrol, better for your wallet.
My stuff is basically the same if I go for a weekend or a month , just the amount of food and water differs

[Cuppa]

Roof top tents are a pain to use

Can you expand on that Gerry? I've only used ours a couple of times & find it preferable to a ground based tent for several reasons, but do acknowledge there is the issue of needing to break camp whenever you want to drive. My view is that it really depends upon the usage pattern, which varies between folk.
I expect that some rooftopper s are easier to use than others too.

Cuppa

[threedogs]

@ Cuppa I would hate a roof top tent, Climbing down ladder in the dark Nah not Me
I'd provide bedding lower to the ground plus all that weight uptop, might as well set a spinakker
I would not swag it But maybe like Roscoes Set up. sleep in pod. Then again I would only be travelling solo

[Cuppa]

Horse for courses 3D. We don't all have backs that are stuffed. I doubt I'd be wanting to climb up & down a ladder in your situation. As for in the dark - not a problem since i bought one of your recommended battery operated motion sensing led lights, which we velcro onto the outside of the vehicle. For me getting up & down off the ground has become increasingly difficult over the years, & for long term travelling I definitely put a high value on a ready made comfortable bed. If we ever get sick of going up & down the ladder, I would go for lightweight towed accommodation. Either something like Bob has (Jayco dove) or if money allowed a Tvan or Ultimate camper, but prefer not to tow if possible.
Sleeping two in the pod is not really a practical option, but for one yes.
Cuppa

[billy bleed]

Roof top tents are a pain to use

*slaps forehead..

everything in life is a pain to use.. its just how you adapt..

i would like to know your thoughts though..?

[billy bleed]

@cuppa and 4D - i'm gonna take a step back and remind myself.. right the first time if not close fella..

appreciate your thoughts and direction.. its that big plasma like 90 inch screen.. bigger picture.. i really need to define what i want to achieve with my truck..

[Cuppa]

i really need to define what i want to achieve with my truck..

I think you're right but I also acknowledge that this is not an easy task without experience - a catch22 ...... This is where forums & the experience of others can be so useful to folk .... If like yourself they can 'hear' the answers they get. Keep asking stuff.

If you have any contacts out on a communities, it might be worth seeing if you can organise a visit prior to setting up your vehicle, as this would also likely be quite informative in determining what you want.

Cuppa

[billy bleed]

I think you're right but I also acknowledge that this is not an easy task without experience - a catch22 ...... This is where forums & the experience of others can be so useful to folk .... If like yourself they can 'hear' the answers they get. Keep asking stuff.

If you have any contacts out on a communities, it might be worth seeing if you can organise a visit prior to setting up your vehicle, as this would also likely be quite informative in determining what you want.

Cuppa

been thinking about it and the reality is that the patrol will be used to travel to different locations where i'll be based for 3 or more months and i'll be in work accommodation or at a caravan park - i'm actually going to be employed by social / community organisations - it will be in between jobs that i'll travel and camp out of the truck - so i don't need it to be completely self sufficient if i really think about it.. that makes sense don't it?

[threedogs]

My mate that did the same as what you intend doing ,he had a small trailer purpose built to carry extra stuff
and just took off. He had no elaborate setup like you can acheive today, Think that formed part of the
adventure. He is still doing it now, and loving it

[billy bleed]

My mate that did the same as what you intend doing ,he had a small trailer purpose built to carry extra stuff
and just took off. He had no elaborate setup like you can acheive today, Think that formed part of the
adventure. He is still doing it now, and loving it

we can think too much about something can't we rather than just getting out there!

[BigRAWesty]

Spot on.. as you probably have seen my thread I think were trying to achieve the same thing, but still very different.
Never know, might run into you one day.. not literally..

Kallen Westbrook
Owner of
Westy's Accessories (http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?15134-Westy-s-Accessories.-A-small-back-yard-builder.)

[Cuppa]

been thinking about it and the reality is that the patrol will be used to travel to different locations where i'll be based for 3 or more months and i'll be in work accommodation or at a caravan park - i'm actually going to be employed by social / community organisations - it will be in between jobs that i'll travel and camp out of the truck - so i don't need it to be completely self sufficient if i really think about it.. that makes sense don't it?

That makes so much difference. Far easier to 'rough it' for shorter periods between jobs. Now you have to think about what sort of places you want to travel & how you want to travel. If it will mainly involve moving on most days it simplifies your battery charging requirements, more so if you expect to be places where you can occasionally plug into power. In fact it simplifies everything. Water & food storage, fridge, swag or tent, tarp or awning, tools & you'll probably be right. Depends on your routes, but a fuel range of 400kms will take you to most places. If your experience of aboriginal communities is anything like my (limited) experience, you will have a 'network' of places & people along the way.

[happygu]

Billy,

I am in Melbourne and would be happy to meet with you to chat about gear and priorities, as i have lived out in the outback and toured extensively with the truck set up as a tourer.

Looks like you are on the way with your vehicle and the lift kit should be adequate to get you started. You need to now prioritize dual batteries, fridge, storage, sleeping, etc

There are known problems out in the communities with Petrol vehicles and theft of the fuel for sniffing, but you should be OK as most 4WD's are called Toyota's as default and assumed that they are Diesel and as such left alone.

PM me and we can arrange something

Mic

[lhurley]

I have reread your post again today, and 3dogs post about his mate got me thinking. Why not a camper trailer? It will have ample storage, can be set up and left while you go do what you need and when you get back its already done. It might stretch you budget but theres no harm in looking out for 1. At the 4x4 show up here last week they had a few decent new trailers for mid $3k. Dont see why you couldnt pick up a 2nd hander for less, then get a dual battery and fridge with the remainder.

Just my ideas, its ok if thats not what you want

[3kids]

Although new to the 4WD world, batteries/chargers/solar/alternators and their arrangements is something I have been researching extensively of late.
The DC - DC charger is an impressive product, not only will a decent one provide near 100% charging while driving to the destination (as stated above) they will increase the life of the deep cycle battery considerably maintaining optimal charge rates, stages and times. A decent DC charger has the capabilities of accepting and delivering a charge via solar panels in conjunction with the alternator charge. This gives a 120AH deep cycle battery the possibilities of running a quality 12 volt fridge/freezer for 4,5 or 6 days depending on solar exposure to direct sunlight and storage of the fridge in a shaded spot.
Sorry to side track the train of thought

[Cuppa]

Hi Dave,
Whilst agreeing with you about dc to dc chargers, they are IMO a definite step forward from the VSR dual battery systems, I am unsure why the time limit of 4, 5 or 6 days (presumably without driving). This would be dependent upon how much solar. If the amount of solar input you had allowed you to go that long, just a little bit extra would allow you to go indefinitely, which IMHO is far preferable ....... If space & weight allow.

Cuppa

[3kids]

Agreed Cuppa,
The VSR arrangement only works efficiently if the second battery is in the engine bay.
The V Drop is the limiting factor. Yes the time frame was without driving/using the alternator at all.
To live off grid and only have to source water is the end game for me one day.
To be self sufficient pending usable solar input is getting better all the time with new technology allowing for amps to flow even in cloudy conditions. I will do a little home work on the red arc arrangement you mentioned in the other post. I envision it to be a pretty solid peice of kit.

[Cuppa]

Agreed Cuppa,
The VSR arrangement only works efficiently if the second battery is in the engine bay.
The V Drop is the limiting factor. .

Not sure I fully agree with that Dave. Whilst voltage drop is certainly an important issue, of greater importance when using a second battery as a 'house' battery s the ability to charge it to 100% (or close to) of it's capacity. Simple alternator charging alone (via a VSR or not) will not get a battery charged beyond 70% or 80% in normal use. To achieve this a 'smart charger' is required, either in the form of a dc to dc charger, a solar regulator, or both. To ensure optimum life of the second battery it is best to keep it above 50% capacity. If charging via a VSR this only gives up to 30% useable capacity, compared to close to 50% useable capacity with a smart charger. For some who's power usage is low, this is not an issue worth paying the extra for a dc to dc charger, but for many the price paid for a VSR system is greatly shortened battery life, a result of 'over discharging'.

Another issue with a VSR only system is that if the vehicle is used for most of the year without utilising the second battery regularly it can be overcharged. It is not unusual to see second batteries under the bonnet that are wet on top, a result of a battery that has become fully charged & gassing (an alternator will bring it to 100% eventually if it is not used). This is not good for the battery, or surrounding components under the bonnet. The solution is to regularly use the second battery.
On our bus I have a pair of batteries charged via VSR & topped up with solar. This has worked well for a number of years, but they have power drawn from them daily when the bus is in use.

Billy Bleed - apologies if this is a bit of a hijack of your thread, it is actually relevant, but I appreciate that you probably haven't got to the point of considering types of charging yet. Hopefully this current discussion (pun intended :)) will be of help when you get to that point.

Cuppa

[3kids]

I agree totally with your last post. The only point I was trying to get across but clarified poorly was that a VSR coupled with volt drop (battery bank in the trailer) is a poor option for charging. Efficiently was a poor choice of word.
Excellent information posted for others to take in.
Cheers cuppa

[3kids]

I'm with Cuppa Billy Bleed.
Sorry to hi-jack your thread.

[billy bleed]

@3kids - not hi jacking.. i'm learning so its good for me to read these responses!

[BigRAWesty]

So any thought to the small camper trailer?
This is the way we will be going, as we have 2 kids, but a small single fold out one can be put up in 5mins. Only down fall to a camper is you need to pack them up dry when storing.
But it gives you the ability to carry your jerry cans of fuel, a small gas bottle or 2, extra water. And a nice comfy inner spring mattress if you like.. :D

Kallen Westbrook
Owner of
Westy's Accessories (http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?15134-Westy-s-Accessories.-A-small-back-yard-builder.)

[billy bleed]

would not want to tow a camper - i've been looking into those oztents as an option lately..

[Blacklotusdog]

I just got a blackwolf turbo tent 300 plus, haven't used camping yet but set up in backYard and quality is fantastic. Easy to set up too. Might be worth a look if your looking into oztent. Packs up much shorter, and has more head room when set up. They have a great awning on them now too which was their major shortfall for me against oztent in the past. Just beware the canvas ones are heavy, mine is the biggest they make and weighs about 35kg.

[billy bleed]

will have a look black!

not sure i'm doing it in the right order.. the money was burning a hole.. so i've just gone and got a new alpine head unit and a gme tx3500 to replace the shitty ebay system installed by the previous owner.. what next...

[Cuppa]

not sure i'm doing it in the right order.. the money was burning a hole.. so i've just gone and got a new alpine head unit and a gme tx3500 to replace the shitty ebay system installed by the previous owner.. what next...

Gotta get the priorities right eh?
Cuppa

[billy bleed]

i've now got my music which is the bomb along with bluetooth iphone which ive never had before.. where have i been!?!

umm.. i've also got a UHF which I aint got a clue about and am wondering if i really needed it..

SLAPS FOREHEAD..

[oilpond]

Well if you be sly grogin to community up this way you will need a good hide for your cans and flagons and dope as searches are common, allso they hate dogs so bigger the better! And if your going community make sure you have an alarm and a sixth gear for when you leave...

[billy bleed]

Well if you be sly grogin to community up this way you will need a good hide for your cans and flagons and dope as searches are common, allso they hate dogs so bigger the better! And if your going community make sure you have an alarm and a sixth gear for when you leave...

I'm sorry?