Steel working question??

[Alitis007]

Hi guys, i was thinking about making a bash plate/ steering guard and possibly a front bar for my GU. I know i could buy them at reasonable prices but i enjoy the challenge!

So i was thinking of using either 4 - 6mm plate, cutting out the pieces and welding them together coz i don't have a bending machine or have access to one either, but my plan was to run 3 run passes on the inside of each joint and 1 on the other. But i'm unsure if just welding would be strong enough so i was thinking of cutting out and welding in sort of ribs, BUT it could be overkill???

Thanks guys in advance any help would be much appreciated!!!

[macca86]

6mm fillet all the way round in 1 run will be plenty. Font forget to spread your heat evenly as it will pull out if shape

[threedogs]

X 2 with above Tack it all together both sides then stagger the Welds. I'll send PM

[Steve4wdin]

I would use a bit of checker plate. Don't go too heavy as the bolts will have to carry the load of guard plus protect. Plenty of tack welds and check fit to GU before fully welding. A nice weld around the outside, a lite grind or sand, then good paint job and Bob's your uncle.

[BigRAWesty]

Quick Q, air bagged or not? If so then the front bar will be a no go.
But the rest can be done not a problem.
As mentioned lots of tacks. Stagger the welds.
I would use 4mm plate. Most bigger companies (arb, iron man etc) only use 3mm but have a lot of shape which gives them the strength.
As for welding, 3mm fillets either side will be fine.. no point laying weld bigger than the parent material. Its just excess heat and can make the structure weak and brittle.
I would only be stitching the inside say 50mm miss 100. And fully weld the outside.

Kallen Westbrook
Owner of
Westy's Accessories (http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?15134-Westy-s-Accessories.-A-small-back-yard-builder.)

[Alitis007]

Quick Q, air bagged or not? If so then the front bar will be a no go.
But the rest can be done not a problem.
As mentioned lots of tacks. Stagger the welds.
I would use 4mm plate. Most bigger companies (arb, iron man etc) only use 3mm but have a lot of shape which gives them the strength.
As for welding, 3mm fillets either side will be fine.. no point laying weld bigger than the parent material. Its just excess heat and can make the structure weak and brittle.
I would only be stitching the inside say 50mm miss 100. And fully weld the outside.

Kallen Westbrook
Owner of
Westy's Accessories (http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?15134-Westy-s-Accessories.-A-small-back-yard-builder.)

I have an air bag so the bar would have been only fitted whenever i was gona go for a bash coz it only takes about 10 - 15 mins to R and R the current setup.

Stitch welding was my other option that i was thinking of so i don't take out too much oxygen from the steel along the longer sections but along the shorter faces i wanted to run a complete fillet as they will probably be no longer then say 100mm. Would it be worth wild to "V" the joints by the edges touching or better to have a butt joint coz they probably will be at 90 degrees to each other anyway??

[BigRAWesty]

Just remember insurance companies don't care were you are.. but its your call.

When welding your not removing oxygen from the steel, your basically melting the 2 pieces together. The wire is a way to transfer the eletricity and fill the 'gap'.
When welding your changing the crystal structure of the steel. Well when heating the steel at all you start changing the steels structure at the LCL (lower critical level) which is when the steel turns from bright silver to a purple / dull red colour. From memory around 700 degrees. Welding is above 1000 degrees..
If making a 90 degree corner the best way and stongest is to make a natural corner. This is there the 2 inside corners touch leaving a nice edge for welding.
and if you stitch the inside you can grind the outside to a nice round corner and still have a very strong corner.

Kallen Westbrook
Owner of
Westy's Accessories (http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?15134-Westy-s-Accessories.-A-small-back-yard-builder.)

[threedogs]

X 2 with Kallen, plus Those Flap disc really do a great job of putting that finishing touch on it.

[BigRAWesty]

Sure do. Expensive but if you hold tgem flat they last a lot longer

Kallen Westbrook
Owner of
Westy's Accessories (http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?15134-Westy-s-Accessories.-A-small-back-yard-builder.)

[Alitis007]

Just remember insurance companies don't care were you are.. but its your call.

When welding your not removing oxygen from the steel, your basically melting the 2 pieces together. The wire is a way to transfer the eletricity and fill the 'gap'.
When welding your changing the crystal structure of the steel. Well when heating the steel at all you start changing the steels structure at the LCL (lower critical level) which is when the steel turns from bright silver to a purple / dull red colour. From memory around 700 degrees. Welding is above 1000 degrees..
If making a 90 degree corner the best way and stongest is to make a natural corner. This is there the 2 inside corners touch leaving a nice edge for welding.
and if you stitch the inside you can grind the outside to a nice round corner and still have a very strong corner.

Kallen Westbrook
Owner of
Westy's Accessories (http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?15134-Westy-s-Accessories.-A-small-back-yard-builder.)

I might be getting my info mixed up. Annealing the steel with welding to remove its weaknesses or stresses (oxygen is a weakness in steel) and slowly cooling it to make it stronger?? Thats my understanding but i could be wrong lol.

Would 4mm plate be thick enough for the front bar??

Which joint are you saying to use ??

26821

Finishing off the project is easy i have flap discs, grinding and cutting discs and a few different die grinding dremals (stone and steel) its just the fine technical details are what puzzle me ATM.

[BigRAWesty]

I might be getting my info mixed up. Annealing the steel with welding to remove its weaknesses or stresses (oxygen is a weakness in steel) and slowly cooling it to make it stronger?? Thats my understanding but i could be wrong lol.

Yes to a point, your not actually removing anything, but changing the properties by heating and cooling the material.



Would 4mm plate be thick enough for the front bar??

Yes, you could use 5 for the centre part where the winch sits, but if given some shape like the bigger named bars 4 will be plenty again.
Again big named bars are 3mm.

Which joint are you saying to use ??

26821

Finishing off the project is easy i have flap discs, grinding and cutting discs and a few different die grinding dremals (stone and steel) its just the fine technical details are what puzzle me ATM.[/QUOTE]

No.1 mate. Lots of tacks on the inside, full weld the outside, but stagger the welds...

Kallen Westbrook
Owner of
Westy's Accessories (http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?15134-Westy-s-Accessories.-A-small-back-yard-builder.)

[Alitis007]

My front bar is gona be a flat face and if i used 4mm to make the outer skin then made some sort of winch cradle then joined it on the inside and integrated the two maybe?? Or made the face with 4mm then the cradle and body mounts from 5mm??

I better start drawing up ideas hey lol

[BigRAWesty]

If you used a design like this
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2013/03/55.jpg

4mm will be heaps as the folds add a lot of strength...

Kallen Westbrook
Owner of
Westy's Accessories (http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?15134-Westy-s-Accessories.-A-small-back-yard-builder.)

[threedogs]

George pop over this week , Fold up a "C" section from 4mm then cut and taper ends to style use my Sheetie, as Kallen suggests flap disc welds.
We can even laser cut mounting brackets if need be , Not a hard job But needs to be visually easy on the eye
I did this on my other 4x4 using only hacksaw , a 4" grinder and a file. Here to help

As for front bullbars of the Big 3, most do two types a 4mm and a 3mm I was talked out of the 3mm
even though IMO it looked better, they said could not handle decent animal strike M2Cw

[benno77gu]

hi alitis007, dont worry yourself the metallurgy of steel(only need to worry about this stuff on higher grade steel such as bisalloy) ,your only using mild steel just tack the whole job together first and stagger the welds around so it doesnt pull out of shape, cheers

[Alitis007]

@ Kall - i don't have a bending machine so thats my problem lol but i'll tackle the bash plate for now and see how i go.

@ John - yeh i'll come round mate but i got the 4" grinder and hacksaw but i got a plasma cutter too and i luv playing with it lol just to think a spark and some compressed air can blast away 16mm thick steel like nothing haha FANTASTIC

@benno - cheers for the advice mate i'm just chasing thicknesses for the bar ATM later on when i decide which way i'll go with it

[BigRAWesty]

No need for bending, just a little more welding... :D

Kallen Westbrook
Owner of
Westy's Accessories (http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?15134-Westy-s-Accessories.-A-small-back-yard-builder.)

[Alitis007]

Might aswell put more welds on the bar then the sydney harbor bridge hay lol

[BigRAWesty]

hi alitis007, dont worry yourself the metallurgy of steel(only need to worry about this stuff on higher grade steel such as bisalloy) ,your only using mild steel just tack the whole job together first and stagger the welds around so it doesnt pull out of shape, cheers

Yea sorry to confuse people. I do tend to over explain a bit.. wife's always telling me to shut up, so please if I get off track feel free.. :D

Kallen Westbrook
Owner of
Westy's Accessories (http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?15134-Westy-s-Accessories.-A-small-back-yard-builder.)